/btg/ - BattleTech General

/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!

uehueheuheuh, gibe ded world plos r i nuke u

Old Thread: ===================================
TtS: Promise Land
mediafire.com/download/58qc4n2owy2gsb7/E-CAT35SN206_BattleTech_Touring_the_Stars_Promised_Land.pdf

First Succession War
mediafire.com/download/dp9iiecoaz4c29k/E-CAT35235_BattleTech First Succession War.pdf

TtS: Brownsville
mega.nz/#!7xMngZBR!d0Ayoy_8rDrtsXZ7-M6wGPrmDq8O8F5_0d4G8dkLxzM
===================================

>/btg/ does a TRO:
builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/

>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5

>Overview of the major factions?
bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/

>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
masterunitlist.info/

>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1

>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400

>Rookie guides
pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx

>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
megamek.info/

Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
megameklab.sourceforge.net/

>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net

>PDF Folders
mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech

Hey BTG, rookie question: What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class? What does an undergunned medium look like, or a fragile heavy? Examples of mechs that meet the criteria or a general principals explaination would be appreciated.

>What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class?

The usual culprit is engine mass. Mediums and Lights can get away with tying up around a third of their mass on their engine because the speed helps with their lower armour a lot, but when you start trying to cram 300-rated engines into a 60-tonner or a 400-rated engine into an 80-tonner you start running into problems. It's also more noticeable using introductory technology or at least SFEs.

the Medium examples that come to mind are the Assassin (Medium Laser, SRM-2, LRM-5) or Cicada (been a while since I looked at it but IIRC something like 2 MLs and a SL?). The Assassin would actually be OK if it had 6 MLs on it, or 4 MLs and 2 HS, but the final throw-weight on both is a bit anaemic.

For Heavies the usual suspects are the Champion (big engine, A/C-10, armour sacrificed) or Quickdraw (big engine, poor weapon selection, armour sacrificed).

Once you slap an XL engine in there for any of those designs the problems go away.

A lot of canon designs are poorly optimised but the ones that are undergunned and/or under-armoured stick out more than usual.

Did they have them? sure. Did some named jaguar characters pilot them? yes. But the Jaguars didn't have easy access to them (the whole reason they invented the Mad Dog) and the Timber Wolf isn't an iconic jaguar mech in the way the Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Warhawk and Dire Wolf were.

their use of them can be ascribed as much to the fact that there aren't that many options during the era in which we still had Jaguars as much as any preference.

I mean you can justify it any which way, it doesn't really matter. I'm just pointing out its a perfectly fine choice to round out a Jaguar star. I'd never imply they had more than the Wolves.

Speaking of the jags, if they had survived to the dark age, what kind of crazy shit do you think they'd put together with the new tech in their ongoing quest to JAG HARDER?

>if they had survived to the dark age
>if

Yeah, but they weren't very jag anymore by then

>What qualifies a mech as under armed/armoured for a certain weight class?
Armor or throw weight well below the average. As a quick rule of thumb for throw weight, you want to be able to cause at least 20 damage at a reasonable range reliably with a heavy, or with two Mediums.
Armor's a little trickier, but you usually want ~75% or more of the max available armor >of its primary targets< on anything that's going to be mixing it up at close range. If you use the Ostsol to hunt Mediums, it's decently armored; against other heavies and Assaults, you're going to be losing important things very quickly.
Once Gauss rifles are a thing, if a Heavy can't tank at least one round to every front location without breaching it's in trouble.

>What does an undergunned medium look like,
The Assassin and the Shadow Hawk come immediately to mind. The Shad uses a large number of extremely inefficient weapons (much like the JagerMech), the ASN has too big an engine.

>or a fragile heavy?
Ostsol/Ostroc, Quickdraw, Rifleman. All have armor problems; in the case of the RFL, it's too thin to take support fire, let alone direct fire. The Osts are just burning so much tonnage on engines and guns that they can't afford the endurance, but they're excellent hit-and-run designs. The Quickdraw is only lightly-gunned (mostly for close combat), and can't really catch most Mediums, so it's in a world of hurt when it needs to mix things up with heavies.
Meanwhile, even though the Hunchback has massive armor for its size, it's still only got about as much as an Ost. Since the primary armament makes it really goddamned tempting to go toe-to-toe with the big boys, it winds up feeling underarmored even though strictly speaking it isn't.


It's also important in LII tech to consider things like having XL engines, CASE, and ammo in the same spot: if you brew up, the 'Mech is dead, period. You need better armor on things with explosives in general, but with XLs it's a literal lifesaver.

But the Assassin doesn't have a engine size problem. It has the same weapons tonnage as a Jenner, with comparable speed and armor weight. It's just the choice of what to do with that weapon space that makes one top of the line, and the other a running joke.

>LII tech
tournament legal tech

*reads text clip and does a spittake*

How... how have NONE of you ever commented on the fact that the Fidelis warship is literally named "Intestinal Gas"???

In the history of CGL epic fails, this one's gotta be pretty high on the list.

>How... how have NONE of you ever commented on the fact that the Fidelis warship is literally named "Intestinal Gas"???
we did, in 2013
and we talked bout the fact Fidelis' emblem is literally inspired by Smoke Jaguar's

How has anyone in-universe not noticed the logo similarities?

Hm, weird. I've been around that long, but I don't remember it coming up. The insignia thing, yes. But I'd have thought the bad jokes would've been memorable.

Rules question: Does a shield bash do the same damage as a hatchet?

Dear peadantryanon: kindly go fuck yourself

The best part?
One of the authors noticed, retconned it to be a typo of "Fiatus" and was then immediately retconned BY THE LINE DEV. Because Herb is an irredemable cunt, the SS Fartypants must be allowed to live forever in history.

Well, given that fiatus is Latin for fiat, that wouldn't have been much better. More honest, but not much better.

dearest grog, it isn't my fault you can keep with the new terms

fiatus and fiat are two different latim words

Hm, guess I found yet another Google Translate bug. Even disagrees with itself sometimes, if you put a translated phrase back through it.

The print and .pdf versions helpfully leave that information out.

The errata says they do their DA for damage though.

Then use a dictionary, plebeian.

So I went out and bought a lance for WoB, and I'm curious as to how I did.

1 Crab CRB-27
1 Titan II TI-2P
1 Deva Dominus
1 Preta Dominus
1 Ninja-To NJT-2
1 Legacy LGC-01
1 Fafnir FNR-5
1 Vanquisher VQR-2A
1 Osprey OSP-26

I was trying to put together a heavy hitting Heavy/Assault Lance with a mix of medium and light mechs for support.

Thank you!

>WoB
>Ninja-to
-Osprey

wat

The Celestials aside it would work for a RotS unit but those seem a bit weird.

They were in the master unit list. So I went with it.

>PURPLE BURD GET FUCKED

Oh god, it's worse than I ever feared.

It's full of fucking Brazilians.

>dearest grog, it isn't my fault you can keep with the new terms

My beloved pedant,

If the developers continue to insist that it is and ever shall be the Star League/Succession Wars through fear of moving forward into exciting new plot threads, it is good enough reason for me to continue speaking as though they were the present era.

Faithfully yours,
-A Dinosaur.

Would a downgraded Cestus be an unreasonable thing to put in a 3sw-era cappie march davion lance?
They were making them on kathil till the 2sw, and they didn't use endo or anything, so I feel like some downgraded models surviving wouldn't be unreasonable

No, it's full of the Fallout-esque postnuclear descendants of Brazilians. And by "full of" we mean "fewer left on the whole planet than a good sized town's population". Does that make you feel better?

If there's one thing that MW2's favela level told me, it's that Brazilians NEVER run out. All you can do is run.

That's a fairly fast refit. Pull XL engine, GR, 3t ammo, and 12 DHS, add standard engine, AC5, 1t ammo, and 14 HS. You end up with a half ton open, I suppose you could put in a SL but it didn't feel right. Put 2 HS in each side and the ammo bin in the CT for extra SW vibe.

I don't remember the MechWarrior 2 mission where we got to level Rio. Feels like a very Jade Falcon thing to do though.

Modern Warfare 2. That was back before I outgrew being a cawadooty kiddie.

I dunno, retaining anything like its weapon load is going to require significant sacrifice. GRs are usually downgraded to A/C-20s, -10s in worst-case scenarios. Losing the XL, GR, and DHS costs it a lot.

The only way I could retain a decent weapons loadout, the heat sinks to kind of use it and some armour was to go down to 3/5.

An A/C-5 like in can be done but then you get a Marauder-M that's gone on a diet.

I'd just use a Crusader, Thunderbolt, or Catapult.

Urrgh, at least leave the guns in the right spots. So move the MLs to the arms and put the AC in the RT.

I had no idea where they went, I just guessed.

I didn't quite consider the loadout parallel, but the Marauder-M on a diet is pretty accurate. You don't have the joy of being heat neutral on a long range alpha, but you get more armor coverage instead. I'd field it.

I actually already had a setup in mind, kinda going back to the cestus' roots, with a GR-for-PPC swap, and loosing half a ton of armor that barely did anything anyhow for 17 SHS

Hm, not bad. Or you could put a 3rd LL in the torso and 2 more HS, then you'd have enough to fire 2/3 and run.

Anybody else here sometimes have more fun designing IndustrialMechs than BattleMechs?

Russki just got the Huelander 2C.

Nope.

WarShips, on the other hand...

>Osprey
>not WoB

WoB revived its production, it is clearly written in TRO 3085

Você iria ficar decepcionado se você soubesse que tem um brasileiro postando nessa thread? E que eu estou por aqui regularmente já faz mais de 3 anos?

Your faggotry has summoned me from my hibernation, so that I might laugh at you. Purple burd is the finest wine of factions.

btg TRO news when?

800 years of existence, 20 minutes of screen time, 5 of that the FWL falling.

Couple of days. IRL stuff has been going on pretty heavily

>FedSuns
>20 minutes of screen time
>derp around during 3039
>derp around during Clan Invasion
>derp around during Civil War
>derp around during Jihad
>derp around during DA

How will the FWL ever compete

>20 minutes of FS screentime
Muninn pls. Everyone knows that BattleTech is essentially the story of the Feddies. The only thing we're missing at this point is an Aerosmith song to cap it off.

AeroTech is too fun.

Which would win, a Clan Bane mech or an Albatross -4U? Which is the bigger mech?

WoB took Vega (Ninja-to factory) in 3069 and held it till 3075.

Round these parts MW(number) still means that iteration of the Mechwarrior games.

Best faction, best mechs, best regiments.

>''''''''Free''''''''
>''''''''Worlds''''''''
>''''''''League''''''''

Just started getting into battletech about a week ago. I've been developing a following of about 20 players.

I need source of this model. Being able to show new guys these awesome designs helps recruitment immensely.

Warhansa, a bunch of friendly Russian gentlemen who provide these MWO-style minis.

Looks like they added a few more sculpts, including a rather knightly looking fellow.

>I need source of this model. Being able to show new guys these awesome designs helps recruitment immensely.
Check any of the archived threads for the last month, it's in there.

>Which would win, a Clan Bane mech or an Albatross -4U? Which is the bigger mech?
Depends on the Bane - the base one is kinda shite, and specifically designed to game the Solaris rules. The 2 is okay, the 3 is a fucking monster, and the 4 is a King Crab IIC.

Against the -4U, I'd put my money on any of the Banes every time; better torso armor, CASE that doesn't kill it, and the ability of every model but the -2 to outdamage the Albatross at literally every range band.

The Bane is heavier and fatter, the Albatross is taller.

Damn it!

I was telling myself I'd not put in another order until the Black Knight came out. And the damn thing just comes out before I've even got the last lot painted.

Jenner IIC is also up.

There he is. There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again! Isn’t he just the funniest guy around?! Oh my God.

I can almost see your pathetic overweight frame glowing in the dark, lit by your computer screen which is the only source of light in your room, giggling like a little girl as you once again s*** your little "I hate Purple Bird" meme up and fill in the captcha. Or maybe you don’t even fill in the captcha. Maybe you’re such a disgusting NEET that you actually paid for a Veeky Forums gold pass. Oh, and we all know the meme. The “epic” I hate the FWL meme, isn’t it? I imagine you little s*** laughing so hard as you type it that you drop your Doritos on the floor, but it’s ok, your mother will clean it up in the morning. Oh, that’s right. Did I fail to mention? You live with your mother. You are a fat f***ing f***up, she’s probably so sick of you already. So sick of having to do everything for you all goddamn day, every day, for a grown man who spends all his time on /btg/ posting about a f***ing meme. Just imagine this. She had you, and then she thought you were gonna be a scientist or an astronaut or something grand, and then you became a NEET. A pathetic "I hate the FWL" NEET. She probably cries herself to sleep everyday thinking about how bad it is and how she wishes she could just disappear and how great House Marik is. She can’t even try to talk with you because all you say is “I REALLY REALLY HATE THE FREE WORLDS LEAGUE." You’ve become a parody of your own self. And that’s all you are. A sad little man laughing in the dark by himself as he prepares to indulge in the same old dance that he’s done a million times now. And that’s all you’ll ever be.

Thanks for the pasta friendo!

can anyone please upload the BT toyota stats?

>"But daaaaa-aad, I want to go to the NAMA!"

Also, if the list of best regiments don't include the 8th Lyran Regulars or the 5th Oriente Hussars, that list is full of Comstar disinformation.

>the meme hatters
>relevant

Or Quentin was the factory, still taken By WOB and held till late in Jihad. Something like that.

>can anyone please upload the BT toyota stats?
Well, these are the ones I came up with back when that was a thing..

>final cost 5,882,496 C-bills
What in the ever-loving fuck?

Be scared to see what a Tacoma costs.

thanks!

Kek

Heh, yeah. It's the cost multipliers on support weapons doing it; somehow mounting a laser machinegun on a truck makes it cost 125 times as much as putting it on a tripod for your infantry to use. Maybe they're factoring in a 10-rated SFE for every firgging laser or something?

Oh, and I need to actually re-calculate the BV for those, they changed the rules for infantry BV last summer and I just haven't had the fucks to give.

Classic vs Alpha Strike
Sell me on your favorite

Classic has the detail of record sheets that's really what sets Battletech apart from Warmachine, Infinity, or 40k.

Alpha Strike is just another wargame.

>BattleTech
more detailed

>Alpha Strike
you can play a full game, with most of the optional rules, way faster than introtech game

>Alpha Strike is just another wargame.
so it is superior to Classic Battletech, I get it

So if i had to convince other people to start playing wich would be the better ruleset and the most appealing?

Classic battletech. Put them in a 1v1 between a Dragon and a Dervish.

it depends on what these other people want

BatleTech is detailed but it gets a while to get interesting (i.e. using Tactical Operations rules). On the other hand Alpha Strike is easy to pick up but not as detailed

serious question, why people suggest this? This was very similar to my first game (Dragon against Jagermech) and I was bored to death with the game. Never touch the game again until I saw Maximum Tech. That shit was dope


Don't be afraid to use simpler "advanced" mechs, your players aren't retarded

>Don't be afraid to use simpler "advanced" mechs
Like what?

Honestly? The most recent intro match I ran was an Enforcer and a Treb, up against a Vindie and a Dragon. We had a grand old time charging across a 2x1 battlefield.

On turn 4, the Enforcer took a PPC shot to the back of the head and it critted out his cockpit. A running 14-turn gunbattle ensued. It was a fun, tight fight, and my opponent won by charging the bleeding Vindicator off of a cliff with her armless, blown-apart Treb. It had two shots left by the end, no lasers, and was holding on to its left leg by 1pt of IS. The Dragon died due to pilot trauma after falling down missing a kick (and the pilot getting knocked unconscious by a lucky headshot earlier in the game), and the vindie was down to its head laser at that stage.

Dragon vs. Jaeger is >shit

most of the advanced tech isn't hard at all for new players

Mechs with XL engines, Gauss Rifle. ER Lasers/PPC, Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, LB-X 2 or 5... All these equipments are simple rule-wise (except the LB-X, but they work like SRMs). Pulse Lasers and Ultra ACs deviates a little from the norm, it make sense for them not being "intro" rules. Also, I don't recommend LB-X 10 and 20 because you have to roll too many cluster hits.

Clan vs Clan games can be as easy as intro tech games and way more interesting for new players


the real answer for which rule level you should start lies on their favorite mechs. Do they like better Timber Wolves or Warhammers? the first game should be about them playing anything they think it looks cool

Introtech teaches one thing that tournament lvl/level 2 usually can't. Heat management.

Did anyone ever make a mini of pic related? I loved the mech in MW4 Mercs and wanted to use it on the tabletop.

This.
My preferred intro teaching matchup is Warhammer-6R VS Wolverine-6M for this exact reason. I run it twice back-to-back, with the new guy getting to handle both mechs and see the contrast.

Surprisingly, Chameleon trainers are also excellent for more advanced training matches (although with their armor and ammo issues, you need to do more than one per side..),for the same reason. They can be comepletely paralyzed, even detonated, if you're not careful, but they teach you how to ride the heat curve like nothing else.

Now if only my godsdamned VT-1Ds from the kickstarter EVER FUCKING SHOW UP, I'll be able to run more of those matches..

custom made, yes. There's guy selling them on ebay, but they don't look good as this one

damn that's sweet.

on the other had, heat management is only a huge problem with introtech and since we are talking about new players it is actually good they don't have to deal with heat problems in their first games

by the way, when you run introductory games do you use the quick-start rule-set or the complete introtech rule-set?

there's also Plog's lineart commissioned by some user

>it is actually good they don't have to deal with heat problems in their first games
Which is why I like to take the warhammer in the warhammer/Wolverine matches. They get to drive a mech with good heat management, and to watch me struggle with the warhammer, and learn a bit that way
As for your question, since everyone I've ever introduced has had a fair bit of tabletop time already, I use the full rules instead of quick start, but I don't recommend it for everyone

Hot.

On the topic of introductory scenarios, what'd be a good set up to introduce vehicles and infantry to a new-ish player? (say one with ~5 mech on mech battles under their belt)

>by the way, when you run introductory games do you use the quick-start rule-set or the complete introtech rule-set?
I give them the introtech ruleset and a copy of the BMR with highlighter on the parts that changed and notes about the new rules. I also keep a bookmarked physical copy of TW at the table with the really critical parts indexed (breach checks, charge attacks, DFAs, using arms as clubs, all the fun shit newbies want to do - even if they don't know it yet).
I run it on a mirrored pair of the introbox "Battletech" maps, explaining the more complicated stuff (water, cover, melee attack options) as things come up. I make a deliberate effort to demonstrate some of the weirder stuff, like falling into water, on my end of the table. I also make some sub-optimal moves, while explaining why they're bad but possibly worthwhile, and explain the options they have for really tough choices (like finding ideal range bands versus getting off a nasty alpha versus having a good place to hide next turn versus just running flat-out to get a decent TMM and shooting on elevens instead of leaving yourself wide open to shoot on sixes)
The first game usually takes about three hours, but by the end of it they're pretty conversant with the rules and know how to look things up. After two or three, they're usually up to TL tech, and only asking me about critically weird rules interactions or really tough choices.

I find throwing them into the deep end with a lifeguard in the pool right beside 'em is most likely to get someone into the game - they know you're not out to screw them, but you're not just >letting< them win, and having someone do cool crazy shit just because there's nothing riding on it reminds them that it's an option when the shit really hits the fan.

>heat management is only a huge problem with introtech
It leads to good habits later, and emphasizes the balance you have to strike between your various resources - especially with Clanner designs.

>On the topic of introductory scenarios, what'd be a good set up to introduce vehicles and infantry to a new-ish player? (say one with ~5 mech on mech battles under their belt)
Well, I always loved the Scorpion's Nest, but they may want a "fair" fight. Try an assault on some turrets and militia vees set up around a smash-and-grab target like a supply dump. Infantry innawoods nearby, and maybe some wheeled or mechanized in support (like the aformentioned Hilux platoon). It helps to have water for a hover or two to horse around on (I like the Pegasus and J. Edgar), woods and a road to demonstrate wheeled vs. tracked vs. hover movement, and an LRM/SRM carrier to teach them to respect vees.

Player should have access to jumping 'Mechs for the first fight, so he can watch you go through the vee rules and explain them. After that, try a tonk-on-tonk scenario with a Firestarter, Locust, Pixie, or Vulcan (or Warhammer) backing them up, along with a couple more conventional anti-'Mech designs (to show the difference in combat styles). Loading up a Shad with AP ammo and Infernoes is also hilarious for teaching a newbie, and it gives you an excuse to haul the old girl out.

On that note, here's the Scorpion's Nest I wrote back in '13. It's a tough fight, but it's also easy to adjust the difficulty to match what your players are comfortable with. I'd suggest skipping the Hidden Unit rules for new players, maybe even the building rules, and giving them a straight 25 VP for every Scorpion they take down. You could add infantry really easily to that as well.

>Classic vs Alpha Strike
>Sell me on your favorite
Classic: Detail, wild and crazy shit happens on a fairly regular basis, and there's a deep satisfaction in watching chunks get blown off your enemy. It's more tense, movement is much more critical to your tactics, it feels more personal and high-stakes. It leads naturally into campaigns, which are my favorite way to play a wargame, and it's easier to run scenarios besides "shoots the mans until he falls downs".
I like Classic because it feels direct and personal and immersive, even with the plodding gameplay and occasional brutal slapdown from Lady Luck.

Alpha Strike: Great for running a large game without getting bogged down, but it lacks the personal connection. It's also more easily-gamed in many ways, and the feeling of gradually having your 'Mech shot out from under you is gone. It also has some critical, deeply un-fun rules issues that remain unresolved.
I find Alpha Strike less-exciting, but it does let me scratch a different itch than Classic without requiring new models. I can also set up a pickup game faster and with less negotiation in AS, so it's good for a a quick afternoon's fucking about.

Really, it's the difference between a really good night of Mordheim/Necromunda/This is Not a Test versus a completely disposable 1,750-point 40k game.