Warhammer 40k General

I prefer to take and hold objectives. Is that offensive or defensive?

Can't it assault if the vehicle has an assault ramp?

Offensive
I always try and make the opponent play my game, which as a DE player is a must

That and i'm waiting for more AL Heresy stuff to be released so i can build a decent force

If it gives the assault vehicle special rule, yes.

They have to wait a turn to assault, but you can use the vehicle as a blocker in the meantime.

Yeah, but they can just target the vehicle with Flamers and fuck up everything behind it.

Depends. Today I did a doubles game with my inquisition and storm troopers + iron hands tac squad and librarian with my buddy and his deldar on the side. We were fighting a fallen dangles player with cypher + retinue and rhino tac squads and a totally new eldar guy. My Chimera, rhino and tac squad sat back and shredded the rhino rush with psybolt ammo and plasma cannon (yay no scatter, thanks servo skull). Over the whole game my guys barely moved aside from two deep striking scions squads, but it didn't matter since we roasted the dangles with s6+ and ap3.

Meanwhile my deldar friend rushed around with Lilith and some bikes and busted up Cypher and eldar guys.

Can my Lib take one relic and my Chap take a different in the same detachment?
What about a Librarian from a different detachment taking a third different relic.
They would all be from the same list but no duplicates.

I believe the new ruling is one model, one relic. So as long as it's spread out, sure.

Did that ruling also affect the buffmander?

>Bikes are for space marine waacfags.

I didn't know that and now I have a huge all bike army. Maybe I don't play full WAAC or maybe I am just terrible but I would say I might have a 40% WR if you go by the mission.

Only been playing for like a year though.

Who am I playing against?

My Tyranid friend who is a bloodthirsty motherfucker? I play on the defensive with a wall of rhinos.

My Necron friend who tries to turtle? I drop pod assault his ass.

My Marine playing sister? We both go full offensive and the board turns into a bloodbath with the matches tending to end with everyone dead.

Thanks was a bit confused there.

Wait for the Tau FAQ. There are Systems that are clearly designed to work as one. Plus, since Tau don't get psykers, you could make the case that Tau need multiple systems.

Isn't the Tau way to buy Characteristic Systems analogous how Psyker powers were bought in previous editions?

You wouldn't want to assault into a unit full of flamers anyway.

>So basically, melee units that aren't in Land Raiders have absolutely zero chance of ever making it into close combat?
Pretty much. Doesn't stop cocksuckers like from pretending the game isn't broken all to hell.

It doesn't. Tau and Necrons are explicitly allowed to take multiple relics per model.

>you could make the case that Tau need multiple systems.

Tau don't need a fucking thing, they're powerful enough already.

No, but I might want to assault the unit next to them. Or I might want a Repentia Squad to assault a vehicle armed with Flamers. Or any of the other reasons why I'd have a melee unit sitting on their hands waiting to get toasted.

I know the game is broken, you either make the best of it or just stop playing.

No psykers is the price that the Tau pay for being able to attach multiple relics to a single unit. Same with Necrons.

there are other. ways of getting into close combat, and not having every vehicle be an assault delivery system always felt more like a feature than a bug to me.

The games is full of fucked up stuff, but having a devide between 'things you can assault from' and 'things you can't' seems reasonable.

Reposting from last thread.
Is there any way to make a Scion allies worth a damn?

Taurox Primes are ridiculously overpriced for what they are and Scions themselves seem a bit too fragile and expensive to foot slog them.
I play Blood Angels but since battle brother's can no longer deploy inside each others transports I'm not sure how to bring them.

I'd like to buy a Start Collecting box and paint 'em up like pic related but I'm not really comfortable doing it for such a weak army.
The only real shtick they have is AP3 on their guns, but that's not exactly something to be proud of in 7E.

Necrons can't take multiple relics, outside of mehprit

I thought that was Markerlights.

Shouldn't AdMech, Sisters, Templars, and Dark Eldar get to stacks relics if your bullshit was true?

I'd rather take them as elites in an Elysian detachment than as an actual stormtrooper detachment. Then you get to put them in Valkyries instead of Tauroxes, and you get a bunch of cheap expendable Deep Strike units for grabbing objectives.

>tfw Sisters don't even have relics worth stacking

IT'S UPDATE TIME

Chaos Legion/Renegade Tactics, God-Specific Warlord Traits and Relics, and Unique Units. Recent tweaks and updates include:

>New unit for all CSM armies - Chaos Legionaries. These are more costly, but much more durable, Chaos Space Marines, and can be taken as Troops in any Legion army (and 1-3 units may be taken as a single Elites choice in any Renegade army). One additional model in the unit may take a Special Weapon, they gain an additional bonus based on their Chaos Mark (but Marks are themselves slightly more expensive for them), and they have the option to take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport in addition to a Rhino.

>Black Legion got tweaked a little

>Alpha Legion now get Banestrike Rounds, in addition to some other wording tweaks

>Warlord Traits overhaul; general attempt to make it more "interesting."

>Minor balance tweaks to Relics

>Slight buff to World Eaters, who may now Run and Charge in the same turn (but may never voluntarily fail a Morale test, Go to Ground, or Our Weapons Are Useless test.

>Red Corsairs get Bikers as Troops.

>New unique unit for Serpent Lords: Temple Guard. Essentially better Chosen, they are very, very heavy hitting and buff other units in a 12" bubble, but they're still pricey for a T4 Sv.3+ model.

>Thousand Sons can now take Cultists as non-compulsory Troops, and receive a Psychic Focus in an ADDITIONAL Psychic discipline they have rolled a power from, for a total of 2 Focuses (Foci?)

>Purge upgrade - felt they needed a boost, to be honest

>Various other bits and pieces

Read it, critique it, use it, go to town. just give feedback.

I was really looking forward to a battle company when I got this Betrayal at Calth but why do Razorbacks have to cost more money then drop pods. I wanted a cool wall of armoured transports that just scooted small bro squads all over the board.

I only wanted the one pod for my Dreadnaught using six or seven would be terrible and I think rhinos are dumb.

>Scion unit that specializes in hunting down Eldar

>Inadvertently paint faces to look like the Eldar's most hated and ancient foe

You know some Ordo Xenos Inquisitor had his hand in this.

given that they are shooty, not assaulty, and come with deep strike, why do people not recommend deep striking them?
There is even an option that lets you get a no scatter deep strike.

What am I missing here?

Huh, I didn't know they had Deep Strike.
That opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

They were my friends suicide objective holder but he shelved them when we got better.
Something about no way to mess with reserve rolls so sometimes they sat.
Other times they'd come in and capture two objectives in my deployment.

I use mine as suicide horde killers.

They come crashing in with their taurox, jump out and drop flamers on the hordes.

If the taurox survives, the augur array serves as a beacon for my drop pods.

Same guy as If I take a Commissar can I not attach him to the Scions in Deep Strike Reserve since he lacks the rule, or does he gain it by attaching to the unit?

he does not gain deep strike by attaching himself to the scions.

>Space Marine, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Chaos Space Marines, Harlequin, and Eldar codices say, "May replace one weapon with one [Army Relic]," or, "May replace one weapon with one of the following."
>Limit of 1 Relic per model, exceptions made for the limited relics within each codex caveated to not replace weapons.

>Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Adepta Sororitas, Imperial Knights, Inquisitors, and Orks wargear lists says, "A model may take one of the following."
>Limit 1 per model, barring specific caveats

>Khorne Daemonkin has both limits. "A model may take one of the following..." Or "A model may instead replace one weapon with one of the following..."
>Still a 1 per model limit.

>Chaos Daemons only has a limit of one per army, but the codex employs specific mechanics which make it roughly impossible for a character to end up with more than one.

>Tyranids codex says, "A model may replace any pair of scything talons with one of the following." The limit seems to be the number of pairs of Scything Talons a model has, although at least two items also do not replace scything talons and may be taken on top of others.

>Legion of the Damned only has one relic, total.

>Tempestus Scions, and stand-alone factions like Officio Assassinorum, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cultists, and Renegade Knights don't seem to have relics.

>Tau and Astra Militarum only seems to have a limit of one of each item per army. I see no restrictions per-model restrictions, although some Astra Militarum Heirlooms may only be taken by specific models or replace an item.

Most supplements work the same as base codices. Farsight lets models take from both Sig system lists. If you paid the points, you could have 14 SigSystems on one commander.

youtube.com/watch?v=j5DZ7VYaBLI
Is this proper Orky?

i can't play defensively with my chaos daemons since i get shot to bits while having little shooting

if i didn't have a shitty mood and it wasn't 2 am i would read this

>Chaos Space Marines
>Limit of 1 Relic per model

It's cool. It's long, but that's because I tried to be comprehensive.

you can always download it and look it up later, or open it up in another tab and look at it in the morning

>Sacrificial Hordes: All units of Chaos Cultists or allied Renegades and Heretics
with the Mark or Covenant of Nurgle provide a 5+ Cover Save to other Purge
models 6” behind them. However, for every successful Cover Save made in this
way, the Cultists or Heretics unit immediately counts as taking the hit instead.
You do realize that the vast majority of the time this ability is just a straight nerf, right? Intervening models already grant a 5+ cover save.

Why half-ass rules for every legion and warband instead of focusing on one or two and actually making something worthwhile?

are those choices for that model, or things listed on it's profile?

It's part of a spread telling you what upgrades to take to represent characters from the Crimson Slaughter. Apparently the page was put in there deliberately to fuck with CSM players. Or the FAQ writer is a moron that doesn't know shit about what he's ruling on and should be ignored.

Ah fuck I COMPLETELY forgot about that rule.

Well, that's why I post this, so people can point out the glaring errors.

I put it as more likely the writers weren't talking to each other.

So one guy wrote a thing intending it to mean one relic per model. Then a different guy didn't read it that way, and wrote out the sheet with multiple relics.

Similar to how some armies pay a set price for the unit to have grenades, because the writter went by the section saying one grenade per phase, and other armies pay per model, because they read the section about grenades in the assault phase.

And no one talks to each other, and no one double checks the work.

Why do your Thousand Sons rules do nothing for actual Thousand Sons units? All they seem to do is bloat our single wound champions even worse and let us make ghetto Rubric squads if we want to.

I feel like none of his legion rules actually do anything, just adjust squad sizes and force org. roles. He should cut the legion rules to 2 rules that actually matter, instead of 6 half-assed ones that do nothing

Those relics have always been fluffed as Kranon's personal equipment. The idea that they weren't intended to be able to be taken together is asinine.

these are fine, but boring. They don't fundamentally change play.

To me one of the biggest problems with the CSM codex is it is torn between 10000 year old veterans and young warbands. In my opinion, Chaos Legions should be a supplement for Space Marines while Chaos Warbands should be it's own thing with a big emphasis on what makes them not just "spikey space marines that suck"

A while back I had some ideas like these for Warband tactics:

Choose one: regardless of choice, Champions of Chaos grants +1W in addition to current effects.

>Three Man Battle Plan: Chaos Terminators are troops.
>Sword and Board: Any character may replace their weapons with a storm shield and power sword for a deeply discounted price.
>Let the Galaxy Burn: Any character can take a flamer for 5pts, all flamers and heavy flamers are +1S
>I Take What I want: Chaos Lords can buy and use any weapon in the codex available to infantry units at the listed price. This includes heavy weapons.
>Cult Elite: Cultists can buy carapace armor, +1BS, +1WS, and a bolter for 6ppm

You are basically giving 30 wounds to a squad of obliterators.

Like a third of all the rules are actually nerfs and restrictions that will often outweigh the benefits granted.

Why did the Emprah keep Angron, it was obvious he hated him after he interrupted is cyborg orgy. Is the Emperor a masochist?

You're an illiterate moron. I legitimately have no idea how you came to that idea. All that rule does is give Nurgle squads 6" behind cultists a 5+ cover save. Units already get a 5+ cover save from intervening models. All his rule does is kill cultists unnecessarily.

No, you are giving them a maximum of 30 successful 5+ cover saves, which they already get from intervening models.

they could have just made him a special character then.

Special characters can always. have multiple relics, no matter what. the generic rule is.

>complain that that guys stuff doesn't fundamentally change play
>your suggestion is let champions buy storm shields
Pot meet kettle.

>However, for every successful Cover Save made in this
way, the Cultists or Heretics unit immediately counts as taking the hit instead.

+30 WOUNDS ON MY RIPTIDE GUNLINE

Crimson Slaughter is a supplement.
Base CSM still only take one per model, except perhaps where a relic doesn't replace a weapon.

How is reading comprehension this hard for people?

But they didn't. Instead, they clearly intended you to be able to take multiple relics on a single character. This was how pretty much everyone played it prior to the new FAQ's. The FAQ guy is just an ignorant moron.

+1W and storm shield would let the champions be at the front tanking wounds for the squads. It isn't the biggest game changer, but it isn't something they can currently do.

>Successful cover save
>1-4 are not successful
>Therefore not assigned to the cultists
It's this really that difficult to understand?

phsss, nothing personnel, mon'keigh....

>Like a third of all the rules are actually nerfs and restrictions that will often outweigh the benefits granted.

This is not intended to be a universal buff to an entire Codex. It's intended to make different Warbands and Legions fight much more in line with their fluff. Thats why Death Guard can't take Bikers, because that's completely out of line with literally any fluff about the Death Guard. There are naturally going to be some nerfs to certain things to make them much more in line with their fluff.

He ain't me, stop yelling at him. I'm already working on fixing the rule, because I legit forgot that rule existed.

Don't be too hard on him, this shit isn't easy.

The wording in Crimson Slaughter and the wording in Codex: Chaos Space Marines are identical. If the Slaughter can take multiple relics, so can basic CSM.

It has nothing to do with reading comprehension, you're just ignorant.
Are you stupid? Read the rules for intervening models in the core rulebook.

Holy fuck, it looks like it's actually getting better. Please tell me it is. I can't wait to see Orkz.

>Successful cover save
>1-4 are not successful
>Therefore not assigned to the cultists

So your telling me its like Eldar holo-fields? Sweet baby jesus.

>roll to confirm hit?
>hits a cultist
>sorry bro

How is this not used everywhere? Is this forgeworld bullshit?

Looks like the combat is more complex and fun than in Space Marine. Now that the Eldar are in I may have to give it a try.

IIRC, Tyrant's Legion and Death Korps of Krieg get this with a 3+ and no drawback.

It plays rather well actually, believe it or not.
The Eldar were added in last friday, and while they are a bit underpowered, and still missing two of their classes (banshees and hawks), they are still rather fun to play.
This thread on /wsg/ has a bunch of webms from the game.
Yeah, the melee is somewhat more complex than in Space Marine, but it isn't exactly deep. It is basically rock paper scissors style set up, with fast attack, defensive bash, and strong attack.
Fast attack>Strong attack>defensive bash>fast attack.
It is sorta buggy right now though.

>How is this not used everywhere?
It is. It's in the base rulebook, everyone gets it. You don't even have to sacrifice your cultists.
>Is this forgeworld bullshit?
It's homebrew. Keep up.

except some factions clearly phrased it as you can only take one per model.
Which goes back to, there were different ideas and policies, and no one bothered talking with each other.

I'm not saying there weren't serious fuckups, just that the FAQ guy had to go win after the fact and try to make those fuckups work together.
Also, first draft. It's not an official ruling yet, and people shouldn't be playing as if they are.

yes, I know. I'm already addressing this.

What I've got so far is it keeps the drawback, changes it to a 3+ save, BUT any unit of Cultists destroyed in this manner can be brought back next turn on a 5+.

Of course, I'm sure I'll hear about how stupid and useless that is.

>destroyed in this manner can be brought back next turn on a 5+.

FUCK I meant to say, "Destroyed AT ALL."

>It's intended to make different Warbands and Legions fight much more in line with their fluff.
So make a handful of rules that incentivize that legion's/warband's fighting style. There's no reason to place a bunch of restrictions on the codex. Don't prevent Death Guard from taking bikers (I'd love for you to provide a source other than your ass for the claim that the Death Guard never, ever field bikes), just give them rules that do nothing for Bikes.

THIS. incentivize people to not take certain units by making their legion not give those units rules that affect them. Like this guy said, if you don't want death guard taking bikes, don't have their rules buff bikes, have the rules buff other things.

Take the Raptors chapter tactics for example. They can make their bolters Heavy 1 Rending. This encourages people to take a bunch of bolter dudes (usually scouts to get into position ASAP) and use them like stationary marksmen.

>The wording in Crimson Slaughter and the wording in Codex: Chaos Space Marines are identical. If the Slaughter can take multiple relics, so can basic CSM.

Ah, so you are the sort of puckered cunt that doesn't even read the whole codex. Tell me what it says here in the image about how you are able to take Chaos Artefacts, please.

I'd just make it an AP- hit against the Cultist in front. It's less convoluted and gives the same amount of deaths per cover save if they're wearing flak armor. Also, specify that the hit on the guy in front Ignores Cover.

>the Purged, a warband dedicated to exterminating all life
>have a rule for bringing their dead cultists back
Shit, nigger, what the fuck are you doing?

If you don't want to be told that your ideas are stupid and worthless, stop posting stupid, worthless ideas. Go back to the drawing board. Fewer restrictions, fewer do-nothing rules. Keep each legion/warband to a couple rules that actually do something meaningful.

>>have a rule for bringing their dead cultists back

I'm not him, but logic would dictate they've just sent for more Cultists, not brought any back to life.

And yet Crimson Slaughter, with an identical wording, is clearly intended to be taking more than one relic per character. Please try to keep up, please.

It's funny because Forgeworld gives them the ability to come back and outflank on a 2+.

Animation looks a bit 'floaty' but yeah definitely better.

The point is that it runs counter to the very theme of the warband. The rules for a legion dedicated to eradicating life shouldn't cause their to be a constant influx of new life.

Just because it intends, doesn't mean it does.
Remember, this is GW we're talking about.
They're fucking terrible when it comes to RAW vs RAI.

RaI trumps RaW if it's clear, and it's very, very clear here.

>floaty
Agreed. Space Marine actually felt very weighty and good. I especially liked the springing animation and how the ground seemed to shake with every step. The combat wasn't quite as heavy but it still felt alright.

But it's probably too much to ask from the devs of Eternal Crusade to make the Eldar light and agile and the marines and Orks heavy and brutal in the same game. They'll just do all sides halfway and call it good. But it's the best thing we're ever going to get.

Those are the rules for playing a horde of crazed cultists, not the rules for the Purged. The Purged detachment gives them chemical weapons and dangerous terrain blast templates.

FAQ/Errata > RaW > RaI > GaP

RAW is unclear but FAQ is very clear. Only one per model.