Stat me, Veeky Forums

That would explain why there's seemingly no sense of scale when it comes to comparing the relative sizes of the various kinda of animals.

Don't know if it was him or not, but I heard a quote that the animals are "however big they need to be."

Badgers have a habit of soloing armies when they really get going. I'm pretty sure that in the entire series the only ways we ever see badgers die are from old age or in a blaze of glory cutting through an entire army to get to and kill their target. If I remember correctly some of them even manage to survive it too.

Rakkety Tam was one of my favorite Redwall books though. Motherfucker 1v1s a goddamn Wolverine and came out on top by beheading him with the sharpened edge of his buckler.

Redwall thread? Hell yes. Loved those books when I was a kid.

Rabbits best warriors

Hares are the badasses, not rabbits.

Long Patrol ftw

These books were much more badass than the PBS series led me to believe.

Thanks for reminding me that this exists.

The books didn't shy away from death and violence. Pretty much every group outside the abbey from the otters to the river shrews are experienced fighters, and Redwall itself is no pushover either. It's pretty much a fortress that just happens to be used as an abbey, and when push comes to shove it's inhabitants can be quite a threat on their own.

I remember during one of the sieges of the abbey (maybe the one with the cat?) where they try to tunnel in and the moles flood it with scalding porridge to drown/boil all the vermin, pretty brutal. That cat also get its head cut off with a shield I think

Not to mention badgers fucking people up all day errday at various point around Salamandastron

pretty sure the excessive feasts were to counterbalance that for kids, which I didn't understand at the time

Ever write hungry?

What fantasy system would be best for playing around with the setting of the Redwall books, anyway?
I loaned my nephew my copies of the books, and he loves them so far, says he's got some of his friends into 'em too, so I was thinking about using the setting to introduce the lot of 'em to RPGs.

isnt the game "mouse gaurd" built around this very concept?

I always got the impression that the various out-groups wer'nt all fighters so much as they contributed fighters with a majority being hunters/farmers/gatherers/etc. but each sub-race training warriors on the odd occasion that they may be needed(because bandits, raiders, slavers, owls, snakes, big fish, etc.) more than just being war-like...

The only rabbits that I could remember were those insipid faggots with their cucumber sandwiches.

Well, yes and no.
Mouseguard is made specifically to play Mouseguard, a comic series which shares some similarities to Redwall in style, but is more about mice dealing with mouse-related threats, in a vaguely human like way. Where Redwall could practically be told with a bunch of humans in the place of all the animals and pretty much nothing would change.

Is it just me, or is Redwall best when there's as little Redwall Abbey as possible?

Not just you.

Personally the abbey serves as a good starting point for a character, but the real action happens when the main character gets outside of it.

Though to be fair, the battle scenes revolving around the abbey tend to be pretty fucking good as well.

That is a highland squirrel fighting a wolverine.

Is that Martin the Fucking Warrior? Jesus fuck, I loved those books.

Naw nigga, that's I Am That Is. Even says on the sword.

That was the first book, Redwall. The rats under Cluny(?) The Scourge tried to tunnel in and got a face full of boiling water in the face. Then they had their tunnel collapsed on them.

Why can I remember details about I book I haven't read in 15 years but I can't remember what I walked to the other room for?

LotR Strategy Battle Game. You have to write your own stats, but for scaling reference a wolf (the nastiest thing mentioned in the books aside from maybe a whale) is akin to a mumak, a mouse a hobbit, and Badgers are War trolls.

>That moment when you realize that book was published 19 years ago.

Damnit I feel old now.

There was a wolf in the books?

Taggerung a best everyone else a shit

It got you invested, user, and as such got you to make greater effort to commit things to long term memory from it

Jesus. Furries are getting better at making those frikkin' suits.

Came here to say literally this.
>tears apart the whole rodent warband
>sits down and flashes his sword at Redwall while he slowly drops into a coma

There was a fox warlord from the northlands (which are like the chaos wastes from warhammer now that I think about it) whose claim to fame was that he killed a wolf. He wore the pelt / skull and used the claws clad in steel as his weapons. IIRC, he either found it dead and frozen, or found it half dead and half frozen and finished it off. The next nastiest tier in the books were Eagles/Hawks, larger Owls, and at least two lochness monster-esque things that aren't specifically identified. After that it was something of a three way tie between wildcats, badgers, and snakes, Then came Foxes, those iguana things from the pearls of lutra, Otters, and at least one beaver. The next tier down was Ferrets, Stoats, above average Rats, Squirrels, Hares, and Hedgehogs. Second to lowest tier was Mice, Shrews, Moles, Frogs/Toads, Sparrows, and regular rats. Shit tier were pygmy shrews and rabbits, the latter being totally useless due to a crippling fear of everything, and the former for being the tiniest mammal mentioned. Like three could be spit on a spear at the same time without much difficulty.

The pygmy shrews were in that underground cavern with the giant eel and all the elvers, right?

I think they showed up a couple times. I don't remember that one specifically I think, but they show up in Martin the Warrior and are just absolute shit. To the stoats and rats it's like fighting four year olds.

Hares*

And as far as rankings go, Otters are at least tied for second place (with Hares).

Forget his name but I remember that one crazy otter with the sharpened teeth being the most hardcore motherfucker ever.

>shrews
>Second lowest tier
They do tend to take casualties more easily, but they're some of the most viscious little fuckers in the series, and a constistently militant group at that. Their culture has a large emphasis on fucking up anybody they don't like.

I loved the fucking badgers in this world

they were RIP AND TEAR personified

Taggerung? Maybe, I dunno; it's been a while, so my memory's a bit hazy.
...I really ought to go back and reread the series again.

The tiers were based on bodily strength / stature. Martin the Warrior kills a wildcat, Rakkety Tam kills a wolverine. The shrews in the books are good fighters but they are most certainly small of stature and weak of arm compared to most of the other animals in the books. The Hares, for instance, while being less physically capable then the Otters, are a much better fighting force due to their being professional soldiers, and reliably punch above their weight.

Can't remember, I think he might have been a hare actually. All that really sticks out now was that he was an outcast with sharpened or broken teeth and he tore out a dudes throat after getting him in a bear hug. He seemed pretty chill when not dealing with pirates though.

Damn, now I gotta get back to reading every book. I think I stopped after Lord Brocktree, one of those monster badger dudes.

I remember Captain Plugg being a stand-out villain in that he didn't treat his crew like crap, which was rare for Redwall villains. It showed when after he died, his crew fell into depression rather than the usual in-fighting for who was going to be in charge.

I kind of liked the characters who were "evil" races, yet were pretty good people. Come to think of it, Pirate captains tended to be decent, reasonable bosses.

Reminder that Veil did nothing wrong.

Looking through the character list I think it was Cuthbert Blanedale Frunk from High Rhulain.

Who bark crew here?

He was an otter. He didn't just tear out throats, he straight up cooked and ate who he killed. He showed up in one of the later books, Rakkety Tam or Eluila maybe?

I'd say the abbey has a larger purpose than just a starting point. Redwall Abbey is supposed to be Home. The mundane beginnings that you leave behind at the start of your journey and the place you come back to at its end. A place that makes you want to hang up your coat and sit with friends by the fire. A welcoming bubble of peace and normalcy in the world, where life is relaxing and simple. Redwall Abbey is something every good hero needs, a place to protect. A place of friends and allies to push you on and to pull you back as needed. The thing that drives you to go off and do great deeds, and the place you return to when the adventure is done. The abbey is something you strive to defend simply because it and the people who live there are worth protecting.

So the bulk of the adventure may take place outside of the abbey. But when the villain attacks Redwall, that's when you know shit's gotten serious.

I'm still impressed that he managed to include a fucking Hydra, and with a believable explanation too.

Wait, what?

go on...

In one of the books there were three adders that got bound together by a flail and to survive the three snakes learned to move and hunt as one. If memory serves the middle head wore a crown that was important for reasons.

Unfortunately I can`t find a damn thing about him in the wiki.

this guy has it right. They'd gotten tied together when a ball and chain got wrapped around their tails, so they had to work as one to survive.
I liked how they were always preceded by a "sickly-sweet scent," or the scent of rotting, not-quite-dead flesh. Like how the tips of their tails are probably rotting away from lack of circulation...

>Killee Killee Killee!

If you would please, a moment of silence to remember.

Anyone remember this crazy motherfucker? One of the best books in the whole series.

In some universes, anthropomorphic rabbits are quite problematic.

Warbeak was mai waifu.

RIP in pieces :`(

The book was Triss if memory serves.

Can't be, never read that one.

They're actually getting to be pretty cool. These I don't mind seeing at all.

>rabbits
MOTHERFUCKER THEY ARE NOT
FUCKING RABBITS
they are HARES

Has anyone read the Redwall Graphic Novel? I think of all portrayals, it did the best at balancing out the scale between the different species. Mice are are pretty much halflings while Badgers are warhammer Ogre tier. The wildcats, snakes and birds of prey were pretty much monsters, and Martin Slaying the cat was akin to a man slaying a giant

Link to graphic novel imgur.com/gallery/5xFw3

The Taggerung in Taggerung is an Otter raised by a vermin warband after being kidnapped in a targetted raid.

True, but Taggerung is a moralfag who leaves the vermin warband because he doesn't want to kill a bitch, so I don't think that's him.

Crap, I sort of remember the guy too, but I can't remember which book he's in.

Na. That guy was cool but this one had the bloodlust.

I think either Martin or Mathias met him on a beach but goddamn if he ain't showing up.

It's a kids book.

Kids don't have autism like you do.

Redwall is a huge deal.

The whole reason it's Red Wall is because there was a huge sandstone wall near where Brian Jacques lived as a kid and he would always go there and imagine the adventures going on behind the wall.

I've been there, pretty nice place.

honestly I'd say modify one of the older versions of D&D(or a OSR/Retroclone game) for this

also while I love the books overall, I think we can agree that killing off the Sparrows in Mattimeo was super lame(honestly it's probably the book in the series I like the least as it feels the most rough in terms of writing)

I think there was a Wolverine in one book as well, also I'm kinda amazed that Redwall(the first book) never got rewritten to remove the stuff that didn't fit the setting in future books like mentions of humans and human nations, or that Beaver(honestly if the horse weren't kinda important for the beginning of the book I'd say remove it as well since it screws with the series' scale more than anything else)

The wolverine was the bad guy of Rakkety Tam.

Yep, Kuno the Savage was a Wolverine, and every bit as viscous as you'd expect. Not to mention that he and his entire army were cannibals- though that might have just been a cultural thing in the land they came from.

Oh damn son, basically the most hardcore motherfucker
>Survived two assassination attempts
>Actually captured Redwall
>Didn't take shit from nobody
>Competent right hand men
>Died a warrior and not a wimp (looking at you, Sable Quean)

yeah now I remember, haven't read that book yet though, just remember reading about him somewhere

also have a map of the Redwall world that was made for a thread on AlternateHistory.com that was about writing up a timeline for the Redwall world after the events of the final book(chronologically that is), so some things might be a bit off looking

There were seals, dolphins and sea monsters in the setting, the horse didn't throw off the scale too much. Though it would have ben great if they turned the cart into some sort of huge siege engine or a modified ship pulled by an enslaved horse.

I always wanted them to have something like a bear or a war band of wild boars pass through Redwall and be portrayed as some epic struggle that pushes them to the limit in order to fight it off.

Yes yes, run, Cornflower. OH! Too slow!

I could swear that Mossflower was part of an actual continent.

Found him, Finbarr Galedeep the Sea Otter Captain in The Bellmaker.

Huh, seems like it.

Thanks user.

I really have to see if I still have those books.

Honestly I wouldn't read them again, at least not until I have kids. I tried to read them a few years back and found that they just seemed too childlike for me.

Made me sad senpai,

If you're interested in a human version, I've found that The Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart is pretty good and definitely has that Redwall spirit of wandering adventures.

My favourite adult author of heroic fantasy was / is David Gemmel. I feel somewhat like he is Brian Jacques for adults.

I do wanna run a Redwall game one day. Not a fan of D&D or the clones...nor GURPS.

Maybe something like Risus, just make it super simple.

I know the feeling. I've got the books sitting on my shelf, another year and I'll start reading them to my daughter.

Is anyone aware of how Mouse Guard works when refluffed to Redwall?
Failing that, I have some Redwall homebrews lying around, lemme see if I can dig them up.

Looks to be more complicated then it's worth, though.

Try homebrewing Warhammer Fantasy.

The scale thing always bugged me too. I mostly just head fluffed them into "small races" which included Mice, Moles, Squirrels, Rats, etc. and "big races" which included Hares, Badgers, Cats, and Foxes.

Not including shit like snakes which were basically monsters.

Hmm, a Warhammer redwall setting could be interesting,

Vermin-
Rats- skaven obviously
Ferrets, stoats and the like- gors/orcs
Foxes- dark elf or chaos warrior stats
Wolverines and wildcats- greater daemon/prince stats

Good beasts
Hares- high elves
Badgers- ogre/dwarfs cross
Squirrels-wood elves
Otters- somewhere between human and elf stats
Mice, and shrews- halflings
Moles and hedgehogs- dwarfs

How did Martin turn into a mystical spirit guardian anyway? Dude was a total badass in his books but his ghost acts nothing like he did when he was alive.

probably some sort of mystical enlightenment after he died or something

He saw a lot of shit. The book about him before he comes to Redwall was downright brutal.

With seeing a lot of shit comes handling your own shit.

No, there was a side character who had sharpened teeth and ate vermin. Taggerung was a chill dude.

>cool
Wearing what amounts to an inside-put winter coat in the hot sun for hours on end is the opposite of cool.

Its not good for you