Skreeonk Edition

can someone make me feel warm and cozy and tell me a tale of salty cryx / legion players?

>handful of cryx players at my flgs
>2 are super tryhard nofuns to play against
>literally flipped their shit when they heard about nerfs to banes
>one liquidated his shit on ebay
>other vowed to wait till mk4
>both are now playing star wars armada, making that group hate them as much as we hated them in warmahordes

30 year olds shouldn't get so upset at toy soldiers

The resident Cryx player at my LGS who basically never plays but talks about how good his faction is and owns 3 units of Bane Knights (none of which have even been built yet) is endlessly salty about the Mk3 changes. Like every time he comes into the LGS he just whines about Cryx being terrible now.

Are Legion players even that salty?

I've seen more salt from Skorne and Trolls from the Hordes side of things.

There was complaining after the Insider, but once more details came out most people seem pretty okay with the 3e version of Legion.

It always existed. You just didn't use it.

If he owns 3 units of bane knights then hes not in a terrible position. Bane knights are still very good. Bane warriors, however...

Not trollblood, just not trolling

Not really. Legion seems like it is in a good place, and after the initial whining (mainly after the insider), people have calmed down.

Are there any other casters good for Dire Troll herds other than Doomy?

>tfw local Cryx players simply started selling their stuff that isn't good anymore and started to look for other infantry options like Croe's

So do we know what the themed forces are for the factions yet?

We won't get theme lists until December-ish.

Cephalyx was the one exception since it's literally the only way to play them.

Do they have any redeeming factors?

I got into Cryx at the end of Mk2 because I played VC in Warhammer fantasy and it seemed like the natural transition. I bought two boxes of bane warriors, officer and standard, plus Tartarus.

Am I screwed?

Has anyone posted any of the newer book PDFs?
The Blood of Kings, Wrath of the Dragonfather, or IK Unleashed: Wild Adventure?

So, about a year ago i bouth about 100 pts of skorne then my freind gave me 100pts of trolls.
Both need models, so want to sell one.

The question though:
In MkIII, which faction should i drop? Trolls or Skorne?

dropbox.com/sh/rktt2uw29q3fy5k/AAAgvmEv04DYU2Gg_cqUxsDta?dl=0

Gonna leave these here for those that have missed it.

never play skorne in mk3

E grissel is an option, Borka 2 is an option

Answer is obviously Trolls.

You'll be able to find buyers for the Trolls.

You're fine. The faction just went from s+ tier to solid B.

As a troll player I'm enjoying the few games I've played so far but it feels weird. Like buff stacking and arm skew used to be our thing, but now the buff stacks are MUCH smaller and the skew is just a little extra arm and a a little extra def.

Aside from Gunny, Madrak2, and the doomies, everything feels a little short. I can' help but look at skin walkers or man-o-wars and be pretty jealous. Aren't trolls supposed to be the attrition faction? Where's my hyper-regen or shield wall infantry? Where's my 8 boxes?

If only Borka kept iron flesh.

If we still had the best heavy infantry in the game the loss of the buff stacking would be easier to swallow.

But for now the doomy meatwall and the madrak double fens are enough fun to keep me around.

As a Cryx player I'm somewhat upset by the nerfs- I feel like a few were excessive. Deneghra 1 losing the -2 FOC part of her feat I am fine with- it was absolutely ball-busting, but deneghra 2 going from auto shadowbind to granting shadowbind on hit to friendly models. I would have thought that making shadowbind shake-able was enough of a nerf to her feat (it was straight up worse than Kreoss 1 or Barnabus).

That said, it is nice to be able to play Bane Warriors without people bitching about them. Ironically, when most players are shelving them, they're coming off of my shelf.

Bane Warriors are still fine- they are some of the hardest hitting infantry in the game and they apply an armor debuff that you do not need to roll for. Those two things make them worth taking. Defensively they are kind of shitty and they are now slow and have average MAT, but most of these problems are easily fixed by our casters/in-faction models

Its fine, I suppose you could run your Thralls as knights. The faction is fine, just less exciting. Ine could argue that the game as a whole is less exciting (excluding cygnar and ret)

I can't shield them all, but I've got enough to keep a second row in reserve and to block LoS.

My intuition is the game goes like this:

Starting with the second turn, you kill one jack and hurt another every turn, and I can't stop it. If I play *well*, you kill 4 jacks total over turns 2-4. By that time, either

a) I've killed two monitors or the PA, and I win
b) I've pushed your line back enough that I can tank the remaining jacks and win on scenario
c) You manage to prevent both a) and b), and you win

And it'll come down to terrain and whoever pilots their list the best. It's going to be a matter of me using Fortify and LoS to keep the PA out of the fight as long as possible.

I'm a lot more scared of the Mother list, just because I don't see enough raw damage there to win scenario or attrition against 8 ARM 19 heavies.

In any case, more grist for the theorymachine mill. Thanks for the discussion.

I'm more at loss for us to kill armor. I feel enslaved to Rok and mauler every game.
not being able to buff infantry damage is really making me frustrated.

I also wish tough was just gone at this point. It's so superfluous that I don't even feel motivated to roll for it.

Cygnar and khador are terrifying and I have no idea how to beat them now.

Still playing mkII until everyone has a chance to adapt. What should I run with Asphyxious3, 35pts?

Banes and heavies

Well fuck....

What's your fortify formation, by the way?

The big issue I see here is where your choir and other support elements end up.

And remember that the PA has a ROF5 POW11(13 with Harm) gun as well. If I can't drag shit, I can just lob shots into your heavies.

I don't even think I devote a whole lot towards straight up killing a heavy either. If I get cortex or movement, I likely just move on. Especially cortex, since that stops Power Up, even with the mechanics.

I'm not going to say Skorne is perfectly fine, but they're not nearly as bad off as people are making it out.

Rasheth is likely one of the best shit polishing casters in the game, and their new BB caster has one of the best defensive feats, straight up.

I hate the fact that im driven to play just a pitiful amount of caster to remain competitive.
I'd rather have a more variety. And by variety i mean more than 2 or 3 lists

I think eHexxy, Mak3, pZaal, Rasheth, Xekaar and pMorg are all pretty playable

>super tryhard nofuns to play agains

You already said they played Warmachine user

eBorka Dire Herd.
>Dat Countercharge
>Dat Rok Stumbling Drunk
>Dat polar bear

thx m80
btw WHAC is getting shit done and it looks like we might have it pretty soon.

Rok and Mauler have doing fine for me. Mostly playing against circle, menoth, khador and mercs. The only time infantry have killed a heavy is lucky blood fury'd fens or champs.

5 fury though

Bone Grinders. I can see their potential with Snacking Dire Trolls.

rune bearer?

Any one else having problems with war room 2? Won't work on my phone or my tablet.

Shit suck, but im glad some nice guy at my LGS let me use his tablet gor playing. Doens't help that Menoth cards are all but fail prints...

It should have been updated a few days back. My tablet didn't automatically update it. Had to manually do it. Maybe you had the same problem?

Warroom 2 would crash on my tablet on startup before the update. Now it works fine as long as I don't open the rules PDF.

I did a fresh install yesterday on my phone. It still says downloading expansion and then kicks me back to menu

That's because it's shitware.
I can do a port of conflict chamber for real cheap.
t. mobile app dev

>I can do a port of conflict chamber for real cheap.
Also WHAC is supposed to be up-to-date at the end of the month.

Shut the fuck up user, I'm trying to get work over here.

Speaking of, isn't the Withershadow Combine an attachment now rather than just a unit?

But we don't need a list maker, we need all the rules and cards

Which is something we didn't know we needed until WarRoom.

So I gotta give em credit for that.

>tfw infernals ruled eCaine can elect to trickshot the same target

That isn't a ruling, it's a temporary fill in until it's checked.

Fixed on conflictchamber.com

...

They lost stealth AND tough and have victim stats in the gunline edition, Bane Thralls are garbage.

Dward thing

I need dat Behemoth.

jacks look pretty good with actual decent sized legs

>Behemoth
Hnnnnnnnnggggggggg

That looks so metal slug

Does Privateer Press have a big ass museum of models and dioramas and shit like GW has at Warhammer World in London?
I'm only a few hours away from Bellevue where their headquarters is and I'd love to go by there sometime. Any reason to stop by?

Running them will be easier when Gunslingers are out. Rolling smoke is super crazy good.

Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 (+29) points

(Durgen 1) Durgen Madhammer [+29]
- Ghordson Avalancher [17]
- Ghordson Avalancher [17]
Ogrun Assault Corps (max) [16]
Ogrun Assault Corps (max) [16]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [19]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [19]

I want to like durgen, but rhul jacks are suffering

I have a lot of odds and ends mercs I've picked up over the years for cheap, and now that they look to be in a good spot in MK3 I was thinking about dusting them off.

>pMagnus and Bart
>2 Renegades, a Mule, and a Mangler
>Ragman
>Min Croes
>Min Boomhowlers
>Devil's Shadow Mutineers

What would it take to add to those to get a decent army? I was thinking Halberdiers and Sylys, with maybe a Nomad kit for magnetizing.

filling out your cutthroats would be good, and getting the Commodore64 for Bart. pMags doesn't need sylys because his upkeeps are mostly jack focused and he upkeeps his battlegroup (himself included) for free anyway. Halbies are fine but a little lackluster, maybe consider kayazy assassins instead (though i will confess i don't know how they fared in mk3). Mags will want more jacks, and bart will want more ranged jacks.

Zaal2 is probably also very good honestly. He only got better in the new edition really.

Zaal1 is still as good as he was before. I personally think Xerxis1 and maybe Hexxy2 will be good as well.

Right now Xerxis2, Hexxy1 and Moghoul2 are the worst off.

Makeda1 and 2 both seem fine to me. They are just very different than before. I just wish Makeda1's feat was better.

Makeda1 is on the lower end of the Skorne Spectrum. Makeda2 is likely fine.

Yesterday I didn't have access to the Partisan cards in my Ret deck since I dont own the Merc deck, but now I do. Neat.

What improved about Zaal2? I've seen people say this but I'm not familiar enough to see it for myself.

>tfw buying the merc deck just for rhupert
menite bros WW@?

Immortals and Ancestral Guardians gained souls. His thing was that he liked collecting friendly faction souls, but his feat wanted Immortals and AGs to get the most out of it, which didn't have Soul Vessel last edition.

A shame about Hakaar not counting as an AG, on this note

>Zaal1 is still as good as he was before.

Losing hot-swapping Last Stand with Marketh is a nerf that has to be worked around. Hakaar's less attuned to him too. They really want you to take warbeasts in this edition.

Again, I think Makeda1 is probably better than people are giving her credit for. She just plays a different game now.

Time will tell though.

Also, on a side note, Naaresh seems like he has a bit of potential. New Lamentation is actually super annoying vs anyone who likes to upkeep spells (which is a lot of casters). It lets him bring it to bear without having to put himself in immediate risk. Also, his ability to heal after being whipped up to a decent arm, heal a bit and be kind of tough to assassinate at Def 15 Arm 20 base and transfers. That way he can actually push forward a bit with Lamentation and not be a sitting duck.

His ability to basically get "free" upkeeps through Blood Trade and Hyper Regen is also kind of nice though I would probably always run him with Despoiler now, because, why not?

He does have Soul Vessel now.

Primary setup will be three jacks in a triangle base-to-base pointing away from at least one monitor, with Fortify on the jack in the back. Set up this way, if the monitor is more than 5.2" away from the front line of the two front jacks, it cannot move to get in line of sight of the one in the back. Requires at least 9" to get the same effect (cannot move to get LoS behind the front jack) for Iron Mother.

That's the minimal setup, at least, flanking jacks can make the LoS harder for Mother or the Monitors and be in position so they'd bump into one of the front jacks and be basically impossible pull targets from PA with Enliven up (as they can enliven behind one of the push-immune jacks).

The difficult part is cycling out jacks while moving forward, which drastically reduces advancement speed, but I only need to do it for two rounds.

I'll have to calculate the range PA would have to be in against a T-formation of jacks to be able to pull one of the side jacks, but I don't think it's going to be much outside of melee range.

Yay trigonometry.

I get the feeling that might change. Despite that though, Zaal2's feat specifies "constructs" not AG's or anything like that.

Also, on an interesting note, Direct Spirits now has no stipulations for "eligible models" and whatnot. As written, it basically lets you take any soul in his Control and give it to any model in his control regardless of eithers position.

Cross your fingers that it isn't a typo.

OH! And Vision is straight better now. You can choose what attack you ignore.

Seriously, Zaal2 is all around better.after only loosing the Boosted Melee Attack rolls for Constructs on his feat (made up for with more souls from constructs).

And actually I'm over-complicating that, because any jack enlivened near the Fortify target can enliven in B2B with it and the push fails, so the PA isn't going to be pulling much in this matchup (not to say the *threat* doesn't significantly reduce maximal threat range while safe, though).

>They really want you to take warbeasts in this edition.

I think this is the opposite of true honestly.

They went through and nerfed almost all of the beasts and tried to buff some of the Hordes infantry options. Unlike jacks which seem to have gotten straight better overall, most beasts got a downgrade one way or another (except the Ravagore honestly). Not to mention the loss of a lot of beast support like fury management nerfs and Skorne loosing free charges.

I actually think the purpose in the Hordes rework is to try and force more "balanced" style lists where Hordes armies like Skorne, Circle and Legion take more infantry than they used to and Warmachine takes moire jacks than they used to (considering the amount of Warmachine infantry that got slight nerfs).

To varying degrees of success of course.

Clarifiction, then- in the case of the Skorne caster for whom in mk2 the primary list construction challenge was wasting as few points on warbeasts as possible (8 and 9 were popular!), all impacting changes are towards the end of making warbeasts required to a substantial degree, specifically by making damage no longer transferable to Ancestral Guardians, reducing the number of solos or units that can benefit from Last Stand in a turn, and making Hakaar less lucrative through no longer spawning a kovaas or benefiting from Soul Converter.

You couldn't do it better if you started out with a whiteboard that had "make them start taking warbeasts with this guy" as a project goal. Fuck, that probably actually happened.

Out of curiousity, what kind of lists would you guys run for the Zaals in 3e?

Yeah, they ruined zaal, we know.

for literally every other skorne caster except the other zaal warbeasts were better already and now we will see less of them.

its like they took makeda2 and had a whiteboard that said "Make them take less beasts with this girl" as a project goal

PGs getting salty and bitching about Skorne is hilarious. Not even they can justify how terrible the faction is now

Not sure what it matters what PGs say. They're not actually staff or anything.

To be fair, I think that is still fitting with the "get people to make more balanced lists" idea.

As for Hakaar, part of me really thinks that he will be changed to be an AG. Otherwise, all of what you said is definitely true.

The Last Stand/Marketh change is maybe the most damaging change for a lot of Skorne casters but specifically for Zaal1.

I think he'll be fine overall though. Maybe he'll get a cool character beast soon. We are supposed to have a character beast on the way in the next book.

Pretty much the same as 2e; Zaal1 put the warbeast tax into something heavy. Maybe Cannoneers. Zaal2, just get used to having not as good board position. Themes will be showing up in 6 months anyway if it doesn't pan out just now.

PG are the first among consumers. They work hard a deserve our respect and their exclusive models

Sure. Doesn't make their opinion any more informed or accurate than any other consumer.

>"get people to make more balanced lists"
I personally find this idea fucking dumb for casters like Zaal. He's THE Stone guy. You fluffed that he fucks rocks, snorts rocks, shits on rocks, eats rocks, and buffs rocks and you build a spell list and abilities that lets him breathe rock then go back on it?

>exclusive models
I wish we got exclusive models.