/osrg/: OSR General - Aztec Edition

You're assuming that NPCs get XP and levels like PCs do, or even at all.

>But what forces them to recognize you? If it is the fact that you gain followers, why not follow the (imo) more logical LotFP example where followers are not necessarily level dependent, but money dependent; if you can afford the monthly wages for a mercenary army, why should your level stop you?
It's the bit where you can fight a dragon one-on-one and have a chance of winning.

It's the bit where you went to an unclaimed bit of monster-infested wilderness, killed the fuck out of the monsters infesting said bit of wilderness, and then built a castle to house your army of mercenaries and occasionally go out on patrol to kill more monsters.

>But that leads to a situation where name level characters become rulers of first a central point, and then become rulers in a circle increasing in diameter from that point, still leading to name level characters as rulers within the center of that circle, which is now lawful territory. I realize this is just theoretical and will never naturally occur through play (as you most likely won't devote so much play time in a single campaign to get that many name level characters), but it seems to be the logic within the system, which I don't really like.
That's because the system originally didn't give a fuck about giving you any actual noble titles - that's a BECMI thing.

You're not an aristocrat, you're a settler, a colonialist. You go out into the dark and you light a torch. You bring Law into the Chaos, pacify nature and wrench civilization from the maws of monsters.

This is especially apparent in AD&D, where growing your settlement is literally just a case of hoping that the weekly wilderness encounter check brings up someone of an appropriate alignment to want to settle down in your territory.

D&D has some weird base assumptions lying within the rules - one of those is that the world is kind of post-apocalyptic, with ruins dotting the land and the only safe place being within town walls.

>if you can afford the monthly wages for a mercenary army, why should your level stop you?

'Cause the money required for upkeep and generally having a place for them to stay while off-duty is typically enough for you to be at name level anyhow.

Castles are hella expensive.

>'Cause the money required for upkeep and generally having a place for them to stay while off-duty is typically enough for you to be at name level anyhow.

If that money comes from adventuring yes. But I believe that if you gain that money, say through a lucrative monster slaying contract, it doesn't count to XP in most OSR games, right?

>D&D has some weird base assumptions lying within the rules - one of those is that the world is kind of post-apocalyptic, with ruins dotting the land and the only safe place being within town walls.
p o i n t s o f l i g h t

Going by my copy of S&W Whitebox (the closest OSR thing I had on hand), a Fighter gets to establish a stronghold at 9th level. That's 256,000 XP. It's extremely implausible that someone of that caliber would have gone amiss or unknown among the local non-shithead populace by that point. Hell, such a fighter would probably have foolhardy kids stepping on each other's toes solely to be close to the legend for a couple of levels now. It doesn't matter if this fighter is gutter scum of uncertain birth - by the time they hit name level, they're a true force to be reckoned with, and in old D&D this kind of personal prowess is soon followed by temporal power - even if many, or even most of the other rulers in the world aren't explicitly "name level", which is a mechanical construct at any rate.

>So, how do you utilize leveled NPCs, if at all?
Almost everyone is level 0. Level 1 fighters are veterans. Level 2 or 3 fighters are going to be "normal men who are ridiculously skilled' (the kind of thing you'd expect from a grizzled merc captain of a hundred campaigns). Anything higher than that is heroic/legendary special character territory. Very rarely do I ever need leveled NPCs though, unless they are named antagonists.

> But what forces them to recognize you?
You've missed the point. It IS the followers, but not because you can afford them. Anyone with money can afford mercenaries. That's not the issue. It's that your name, deeds, prowess, etc have become so legendary and well-known that you inspire the loyalty of these followers. You can inspire people to gather beneath your banner. You can't get that with money alone.

Sure, you can try to carve yourself out a kingdom at level 3 with gold and mercenaries alone.. but your mercenaries don't give a shit about you. People don't give a shit about you. At name level though, you have a company of hardened men who are loyal to you..people who are inspired by you and actually want you to rule them.

> But that leads to a situation where name level characters become rulers of first a central point, and then become rulers in a circle increasing in diameter from that point, still leading to name level characters as rulers within the center of that circle, which is now lawful territory. I realize this is just theoretical and will never naturally occur through play (as you most likely won't devote so much play time in a single campaign to get that many name level characters), but it seems to be the logic within the system, which I don't really like.
I read this a couple times and didn't actually get what you were actually trying to say, but it seems like you're assuming that NPCs work mechanically on PC logic, which isn't the case.

A large priest/sacrificeer/diviner cast, with rivalries between different schools of vivisection, burning, etc, and different methods of interpreting innards, tear-patterns, and such.

The different political and social crises mean different types of sacrifice. Some require cold blooded lizard people to be killed in groups of 7 when both moons are full via stoning to reafirm the compact between both wandering eyes and the Empire against the cold-spawn. Some require the youngest son of each noble family in the city to die charging the walls of a rival city to bring a plague of miscarriages and sickly births. Rare and convoluted sacrifices indeed are those surrounding inheritance of a priestly position, where one of the acolytes takes the life of their mentor.

They're the mediators between the divine/obscure and the world, so they're sort of like lawyers, psychologists and consultants at the same time. Have a problem? There's probably a sacrifice for that.

>D&D has some weird base assumptions lying within the rules - one of those is that the world is kind of post-apocalyptic, with ruins dotting the land and the only safe place being within town walls.
>p o i n t s o f l i g h t

Really good points, thanks guys. I guess it would make more sense for all villages / hamlets etc. being maybe an hour or 3 max from their liege's keep, and actual cities being extreme rarities.

Almost everyone is level 0. Level 1 fighters are veterans. Level 2 or 3 fighters are going to be "normal men who are ridiculously skilled' (the kind of thing you'd expect from a grizzled merc captain of a hundred campaigns)

I completely agree. Basic levels (1-3) show pure skill, all levels above that start showing true epic adventure prowess.

> it seems like you're assuming that NPCs work mechanically on PC logic, which isn't the case.

I might just be guilty of that yes.

It's also worth remembering that recruiting an armies costs an arm and a leg. The real benefit of the Lord's mercs isn't that they're free - they aren't - but that they come without needing to spend thousands of gold on recruitment posters.

I think OD&D had 1d6x100gp per person per week, or something crazy like that? They only cost a pittance in actual upkeep, beyond needing a smith and armorer and whatnot, but the marketing cost is killer.

Also, of course, if you're name level then you're raking in enough dough in taxes that the mercenary upkeep is literally not an issue.

Sure as hell counts in mine.

I think I remember seeing a note that it didn't count in, like, the Rules Cyclopedia or something, but that book's got issues enough already that I'm willing to disregard it.

Feel free to point out anything that says elsewise, though. (Also, I'm somewhat uncertain of the viability of "lucrative monster-slaying contracts" in a game as gold-focused as OSR. That shit looks like it'll fuck with game balance something harsh.)

>p o i n t s o f l i g h t
Yeah, no shit. PoL was really just hammering down a vague-ish version of something that's been a part of D&D forever.

Points of light/civilization/Law in a vast canvass of darkness/wilderness/Chaos. To some degree it's the core concept of D&D, Law vs. Chaos, so it's a shame to see it lose out to Good vs. Evil as time goes on.

Can someone explain what points of light refers to?

The idea is that the only real 'safe' place where you could maybe start thinking about walking around unarmed, are settlements that are in or close to a castle / other fortified position with active gaurds. The rest of the world is untamed wilderness littered with ruins, deadly monsters, unscrupulous (non-human) bandits and the like.

More specifically, Points of Light is the default setting for 4E. Kind of like Greyhawk for 3E or Faerûn for 5E, in a way, except they decided to just make an entirely new setting.

There's a surprising amount of details to it in the various supplements that got released over the course of 4E, but the basic gist of it is basically what said - the great empires of old have fallen, and now you've just got little points of light of civilization dotted around the vast uncaring wilderness. It's left intentionally vague, presumably because they learned from the metaplotty mess that was the nineties.

There's still maps and myths and rough timelines people have managed to piece together, but it's not just pointed out to you and held up as the One True Thing that everyone must adhere to. Think Mystara before the Gazetteers nailed down the setting, I guess.

PoL is also the "default setting" of sorts of 4E D&D, amusingly enough.

Anyone?

What would be better for the game overall?:
DCC style luck Attribute that can be spent for bonuses to rolls. Thieves get special bennies for using it and other classes have some minor utility from it.
LotFP style x-in-6 Luck "skill", with your rank determining how many times per day you can re-roll stuff. Class independent, but thief (specialist) gets the option of putting more points in to it as they level.

Is there anywhere a compilation with all the classes from Basic D&D/BECMI/BX?

I have a question about Hexographer. when i try to print my map it prints small pieces of my map over several pieces of paper. (pic related) can anybody help me fix this?

Are there any good LotfP homebrew classes floating around? I'm aiming for a sort of Darkest Dungeon style game, and I'd like to add something like the Abberant or Plague Doctor.

There are quite a few LotFP modules that are basically gothic horror themed. They're a bit more weird than gothic, but that's necessary at this point because being afraid of eastern europeans doesn't really cut it anymore. Still works well with frankenstein/the invisible man/dr. jeckle and mr hyde sort of stuff though.

Check out The Cursed Chateau, Scenic Dunnsmouth, The Magnificent Joops Van Ooms (probably want to change the name, but otherwise might be the most straightforward gothic horror) and God That Crawls. Maybe fluff more of it as man's ambitions exceeding their grasp and it turning out horrifically instead of things beyond man's mortal ken turn out horrifically, but its similar enough.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid "weird" stuff and going for a more straight feel. Ravenloft without Ravenloft, basically, or Masque of the Red Death set about a hundred years back. I guess I'll look at those LotFP modules and see if I can salvage stuff from them.

>find tentaclerape horror
>replace with spoopy skelingtong

easy

This is now a skeleton thread.

What are some more streamlined OSR games? I would prefer four classes (fighter, thief, wizard and cleric), unified resolution mechanic, simplified AC and saves and d6 if possible but I realize that's probably not possible.

S&W Whitebox is pretty close.

Thanks!

Anyone have Lusus Naturae for LotFP? Doesn't seem to be in the trove

DCC

What did people think about today's OSR-ish Free RPG Day stuff?

>Slüg is edgy garbage as expected from LotFP
>DCC Lakhmar adventure is okayish
>The MCC funnel looks pretty fun.

all I wanted to grab was both of those, but I was busy. What exactly is Slugs?

And I absolutely cannot wait for MCC to be released. Crawling Under a Broken Moon fills that void (incredibly well) for now.

>What exactly is Slugs?

Slüg is about a giant bisexual rapist alien slug (or something to that effect). It's a Lamentations of the Fire Princess module.

It's the closest LotFP is ever gonna get to a monster manual

Give us a link and we'll see for ourselves.

Sounds weird, horrific, and cool. Do want.

Ars Goethia Something Something, for LotFP.
It's about doing faustian pacts with demons.

Have you read Tales of the Grotesque and Dungeonesque?

I have not!

I love that within the time-span of LotFP's art, her illustrated maimings stay. She's still missing most of her hands fingers, one legged.

I know, it's great
It's also subtle as fuck. Until I read something about it on TVTropes, then went back and looked at some of the art, I had no idea she was missing anything.

I know, she's a badass. Look at that grin!

...

That just Love Slug. his love sessions give you 1d6 levels. they go away a rate of 1 level a day though

There's muscle slug
breakfast slug
hypno slug
glass slug
slugtron
vomit slug
rock slug

Are there any good modules set in villages that the players are actually from? I'm mining for ideas for a good introductory adventure, preferably with horror elements, that can be used for a very rural party. However, most of the adventures I've seen seem to depend on the PCs being strangers that are introduced to some weirdness rather than weirdness coming to the home of the PCs.

>rock slug

Is that like a rock lobster?

Sailors Under a Starless Sea

Question about casting spells in BFRPG. I can't find the rules. Do you roll a d20 and add your ability bonus? Do you add a dex modifier if it's ranged and str if it's melee? Do you add your classes primary attribute bonus (int for magic-user, wisdom for cleric)? When casting on a friendly or on yourself how do you determine success, is it automatic?

not really

its infected with contagious stone. If it hits you or touches you , your AC goes up 1 point a day. by the sixth day, you are now made of stone. you move slowly and do not heal naturally and have to hire a mason to patch you up.

For those of you who would like a free copy of Slügs, there's a guy who set up a contest. You gotta write poetry though.

http : slashslash anxietywizard dot blogspot dot fr slash 2016 slash 06 slash poems-for-slugs dot html

While it was discussed mildly last thread, I'd like a little imput on how exactly to implment a 'lore based' magic system, using player-inserted implements via class ability.

Or in short
>instead of casting spells the MU/lore master can determine certain facts about the world using his ability, which could include magic spells or powers but only in specific circumstances
>Example; as the party is attacked by beastmen the loremaster states "They are afraid of the sound of bells!" and scares them off by ringing his bell

All in all, a very interesting concept. But how is it actually implemented? Or how would YOU implement?

>Spells per day/adventure? What number?
>How to prevent obvious power gaming/god mode problems with balance here?
>How does character progress if this ability is available first level? Do they merely get more of it or is their another mechanic?
>Can the lore master learn spell/magic/special knowledge outside of using the ability or is it strictly tied to the obscure?
>Can the DM vito anything that clashes with world lore? What's the limit as to not step on the player's toes?
>How about equipment?

I'm very curious to see how Veeky Forums can make this concept work for a game.

That's not Hexographer. That's your printer.

And how do you even want to "fix" it? Scale image down to fit on one page? IIRC, you can export map to jpeg or what have you and scale it down to fit on A4.

The only issue I see with this is that it kinda turns something that can be done with player skill and game mastery (as in, mastering the rules of the setting, such as thinking about burning the troll, not mastering arbitrary game rules) into a character skill.

Everyone in my game does what you're describing as a class. They experiment, they try stuff out, and they remember (or forget) about how X or Y creature responds to Z.

For exemple, they just painfully learned that some high level undead can drain levels.

How did you do that 3D efffect on the outer coast lines? Is that elevation?

The Doctor and the Skinned Moon Daughter in the Undercroft #9 are pretty cool.

I grabbed Slügs and the DCC booklet.

I need help making elves mechanically different.
Wizards have random daily "spell points" and they're often not aware of the number. Casting without enough power or when interrupted would cause a saving throw which if failed, results in corruption, mishaps, catastrophes, etc.(using the spell school's table)
Clerics get a die that increases as they level with a natural 1 indicating they cannot cast anymore that day. Each successful spell increases the natural disfavor rating by 1 which can later be mitigated doing stuff your deity approves of.

But elves are weird. They are supposed to be magical creatures closer to fey than man, right? My idea was to give them flat points that they can spend while still having the choice of casting without them. The consequences would be worse then though and they'd use a special Elven table for effects. They'd start as pretty human but slowly morph into a more fey-like creature, giving them both boons and banes or even just retiring the character.

They'd also not use a spellbook but just learn spells with each level.
Does that sound like something that could work on the table?

I was reading some blog posts about and LotFP playtest document that went out to members who bought stuff in February. A bunch of possible rules changes. Most of them drastically different to the current rules.

One of which was the idea of only 2 saving throws; magical and non-magical, keyed to CHA and WIS respectively. It is a dice pool mechanic. Higher the stat, the more dice you have in the pool. Rolling 1 six = partial success (save for half). 2 sixes = full success.
Sounds like an interesting idea. Except why CHA/WIS? Any explanation I can come up with is pretty strained.
Personally I'd either make them independent of stat, either going up with level or dictated by class. Or tie them to every ability and you save with the first appropriate one for the danger in question.

Thoughts?

I have the document. Gonna assume that the reason is because all the other attributes do something different, like INT decides the amount of skill points you get, STR decides the amount you can hold in one encumbrance slot etc.

diehardgamefan.com/2013/11/26/tabletop-review-transylvanian-adventures-dungeon-crawl-classics/

Could we see the document :O?

On a different not: Was reading through my copy of LotFP today in the train, noticed that it stated that wisdom affects saving throws that aren't magic-user spells, with intelligence affecting saving throws that are due to M-U spells.

Does this mean that all saving throw categories, including the magic saves you make for cleric spells, are modified for Wisdom RAW in LotFP?

> I have the document.
GIBE

Seriously, why didn't you just post it?

>Does this mean that all saving throw categories, including the magic saves you make for cleric spells, are modified for Wisdom RAW in LotFP?
Yes

The best way to make elves noticeably mechanically different in a way that actually matters is probably just to give them different spells than a magic-user.

After all, despite both using the vancian system there's quite a lot of difference between Clerics and M-Us.

If all you do to differentiate wizards from elves is give them different amounts of spell points, that doesn't really differentiate them that much! It's like the difference between a vancian wizard and a spell point wizard - there's a difference, yes, but it's much less than that between, say, a Cleric and a Druid. On account of them having the same spells.

As for it working at the table, how the hell were you planning on sorting out the wizard's secret spell point stash? That seems like something that would be a pain to handle.

I sadly can't take any pictures of it right now, don't even have a camera or a copier. I can give you guys an overview of stuff if you want it though.

Pretty please!

I'm really curios to hear what's in it, seeing as Raggi is still not done with the referee guide and the seems no where on the horizon. Damn I'm salty about there not being a referee guide and screen for LotFP

So far I'm just marking the points next to their name in my notes. Worked well. Just make small circles and cross them out as they get used up.
Also to explain the rationale, Elves lose the random and unpredictable element of mages because fictionally they're supposed to be better at controlling magic and less prone to mishap. Basically they should work similarly because they're still dealing with the same forces (as opposed to the cleric), but be at least slightly distinct to not just be fighter/magic-user

Alright, here goes:

>Only three classes: fighter specialist and magic user

>instead of just bonuses based on ability scores, your attributes now determines a lot more about your character
>CHA determines the amount of d6 you get to roll when making a saving throw versus magic
>WIS determines the amount of d6 you get to roll when making a saving throw versus non magic
>STR determines how many items make up an encumberance point: 3-4 means just 3 items, 17-18 means 7 items etc.
>DEX determines the die you roll for initiative, 3-4 means 1d4, 17-18 means 1d12
>INT determines your "skill point total" for one skill, more on this soon
>CON determines what die you roll for hitpoints every level

>Saving throws now works so you wanna roll as many 6s you roll with your dice, 2 or more 6's mean full save and only one 6 means a partial save which only halves the effect
>Skills now use negative and positive numbers from -5 to +5 with +0 being the normal. You wanna roll a 6 on 1d6 to succeed with a skill. Bonuses make it so you can roll lower to succeed. Negative skill points means you have to roll 2 6's on 2d6 to succeed with the roll.
>four new skills, leadership, luck, medicine, seamanship. Leadership is morale and loyalty bonus, Luck is how many rerolls you can do a session, Medicine doubles recovery on success but can hurt if you fail and the patient is very injured, seamanship is bushcraft on the ocean

>There are four attack bonuses: melee, ranged, firearms and guard. The guard bonus is what you add to your AC when guarding (parrying)
>All weapons do 1d8 damage. Armor counts double against small weapons and half against great weapons
>If you get to negative hit points you can now still survive but fall unconscious if you succeed a full saving throw

1/2

2/2

>magic overhauled, all spells can be used at any level but scale in power with the level
>if a spell is cast when certain conditions for spellcasting are not met such as not having a spell prepared or being more than lightly encumbered then you risk an error
>a spellcasting error is basically like DCC, you roll on a table and something pretty bad happens

Other then this there's just some expansion for rules for climbing and traveling. I guess I can go into more detail about something if it wasn't clear enough.

On that note, have you seen the Scions in Red Tide? They feel very different from regular elves and magic users even if the only real difference they have is a spell list of their own.

>"LotFP"
>no longer a retroclone of b/x
This seems like a completely different game, m8

He is changing a lot of things but he stresses in the foreword that he thinks backwards- and cross-compatibility is incredibly important. Also these are just concepts at the moment, nothing's set in stone.

> >Saving throws now works so you wanna roll as many 6s you roll with your dice, 2 or more 6's mean full save and only one 6 means a partial save which only halves the effect
Dicepools in my elfgames? Blasphemy!

> >magic overhauled, all spells can be used at any level but scale in power with the level
How many spells are there?

Awesome thanks! All these changes seem pretty interesting. The two saving throw system really speaks to me. I do assume that the focus of the game is still the ''Oldschool playstyle'' where gathering loot etc. is emphasized?

Anyone know anything about when this stuff is expected to reach a released stage?

Anyone have Fever Dreaming Marlinko or Lusus Naturae?

>How many spells are there?
None in the document, just some words about how you could convert spells to this systems and adding miscast effects. If anyone would use this system now they would probably need to modify and use the DCC spells.

>I do assume that the focus of the game is still the ''Oldschool playstyle'' where gathering loot etc. is emphasized?
I would assume so, but I would guess that he's trying to make it more about low-level adventures rather than big epic quests, just like his modules.

>Anyone know anything about when this stuff is expected to reach a released stage?
At some interview I think he mentioned a 2018 release at the earliest.

> Fever Dreaming Marlinko
Trove. LotFP folder, IIRC. Or LL

The entire Beyond The Wall game is designed so that the players are from the same village and incorporates that into character generation. There are scenarios/modules that can be added to the process.

This module sounds more fun by the minute.

Its not a module. Its a bestiary.

Ah, okay. When the bluenose upthread called it "edgy garbage" I assumed it must be more than a set of monster stats.

>2018 release at the earliest.
Well that won't do.

Looking at the two saving throw categories, let's see what we can do with this:

It seems to allow for differentiating between classes on the basis of physical and mental / metaphysical resistance. Taking the classic 5 categories, and the 1 category S&W saving throws as a way to differentiate between classes as a base:

Physical saving throws govern things like poison, rock falls you die, snares and other such entanglements. It seems that your intuition can save you (my spidy sense!), although that wouldn't follow with poison.

Magical saving throw: governs spells and spell like effects. Things that you don't necessarily physically negate but mentally beat down (although, does this mean that dodging a spell is physical? Or are spells never dodged, but is the fire of a magical fire balls different from physical fire?).

All classes have a different progression for their physical and their magical saving throw. Seems workable and allowing for more granularity than a single-saving throw, but less randomness than the classic 5.

>hipster "rebel" gets triggered by someone calling edgy garbage "edgy garbage"

*tips trilby*

>a listing of monster stats is "edgy garbage"

Question about spell casting in general because I can't find an answer in the BFRPG, LL, or CC rule books. Do you roll a d20 and add your ability bonus? Do you add a dex modifier if it's ranged and str if it's melee? Do you add your classes primary attribute bonus (int for magic-user, wisdom for cleric)? When casting on a friendly or on yourself how do you determine success, is it automatic?

Why would you need to roll anything?

It's the targets that roll saving throws.

>a monster that exists only to cause brutal orgies isn't "edgy garbage"

No, it isn't. It depends on how you use it.

Freaky sex-death cults are a staple of horror, which you would know if you read some books or watched some movies.

I only know LL out of those 3, but to cast a spell, you simply say it. No roll needed (usually). It will usually take effect the next round (the spell with describe its length to take effect) but you can't be hit during the casting round of combat or your spell gets interrupted and failed.

>party of 3 encounters a monster
>magic-user says they are gonna cast magic missile this round
>other 2 decide to melee attack
>everyone rolls initiative
>PC1; Monster; MU; PC2

Round 1:
>PC1 attacks, and hits. Monster attacks MU but misses. MU fires missile and hits. PC2 attacks but misses.

Round 2:
>PC1 attacks and hits. Monster attacks PC2 and kills him. MU declares they're going to cast Magic Missile again.

Round 3:
>PC1 attacks and misses. Monster swats MU upside the head. MU cannot cast spell due to being hit. on to Round 3. etc.

etc.

I meant on to round 4, etc. derp.

>dude there's nothing wrong with sex cults in my game, it's a staple of horror!

>dude there's nothing wrong with futa in my game, it's a staple of mythology!

>dude there's nothing wrong with rape dungeons in my game, it's a staple of history!

>dude there's nothing wrong with elves in my game, it's a staple of fantasy!

>dude there's nothing wrong with linear fighters and quadratic wizards in my game, it's a staple of dnd!

Do you have anything besides shitposting?

But all of that is true.

does anyone have any of the newer DCC modules past what's in the trove? It stops at about #81.