This auto-smite mentality when it comes to fiends needs to stop. Evil is a subtype...

smote's also the subjunctive imperfect

so:
"He wishes he were smitten."
"He wants to be smote."

I think.

It has been a very long time since I've actually bothered with these uncommon conjugation tables.

found her

archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

granted being the winner of a poll like she was you might want to take her example with a grain of salt, and naturaly you, or your DM, might change how that kinda thing works in your/their game world anyhow

>profound changes sometimes stem from the natural forces in the multiverse. One of those forces is love, and love somehow found the succubus known as Eludecia.
>She does not talk about what happened, but during one of her many quests to tempt souls and bring them to the Abyss, she met a beautiful angel, and something unimaginable happened -- she fell in love.

Does Wizards employ janitors to scrape the saccharine puke off their writers' keyboards?

for a second I thought it was the one from Ebberon, or Pathfinder, which actually made a bit of sense.

IIRC the Demon Scar was a place where where the abyss start manifesting in the plane, and a goddess got caught in it. The succubus tried to take something from the goddess, and basically got goddess juice directly into her brain. This was enough to fundementally alter her nature enough that she's now good.

I'm forgetting a lot of details, but I remember it seeming like the best excuse of a 'good demon' in d&d i'd read.

people have way too much autism. Just rename every devil or demon to anything else if you want them to be characters.

...

Just have a good-aligned peasant be the victim of some demon's morning Alignment Misdirection routine and let that pally fall hard.

I know this is a topic that is most likely trying to bait people, but something has consistently bugged me about this. If a fiend rises, why are they still a fiend? Why are good and evil not transitive in this sense, where if the core of the creature changes, so does what forms them? Why would a fallen Angel not end up composed of evil, or a risen fiend end up not composed of good in this scenario?

>can't comprehend a non-evil demon or devil
>calls others autists

Catch that ferry.

well, there are other ways to handle it.
I've played games where the 'evil' subtype referred to the planar energy that was part of their makeup, because it only exists on outsiders.

Though those game always had alignment be outside of the normal axis structure. Sense and smite were changed to other concepts, like 'heresy', or 'sin' (which differed by church). If you still had sense/smite 'evil', that referred to the planar energy, and didn't affect most mortal beings.

5e also gets rid of this to an extent. Paladins have 'divine sense' which detects certain kinds of creatures. And alignment is defined by 5 broad statements, which have no direct game effect. I'm liking 5e for this as well as other reasons.

If you would rather smite an enemy on sight than try to convert them, you don't deserve to be a Paladin.

>it's an "user shitposts with a fetish image" thread

NO
PURGE

You can't be serious

There's no fetish in that image, you're jumping at shadows user

You're so cool, user. I'll bet nothing fazes that black gem of a heart.

Not him but many people like their supernatural extraplanar beings with concepts like evil literally existing as part of their unnatural genome not to behave like tsundere highschool kids.

Wizard, ain't splain shit, etc

more or less agree. Demons, as they exist in 3.5 dnd, should change just from 'love'.
Direct injection of godly essence sure. 2e planescape, sure.
Other setting, demon could mean anything there.

>cutesy demonic loli
>animu eyes
>thigh gap I could put my foot through
>slave collar with leash(?)
>holding some goatee wearing goofy motherfucker like a (smaller) child
>not fetish
not the dude who pointed it out, but yeah, signs point to he's correct

>implying I said "how can this happen?"
>implying I was not responding to someone virtually calling another user edgy for disliking concepts of demons falling in love

Calm down dependsonthesetting guy.

>animu eyes
>princess carry
>fetish

Also why are you thinking about putting your foot between the lolis thighs, user?

I bet your one of those warlock types who gave peace a chance, gave quarter when asked and thinks mortals and devil kin can get along.

>ripping on warlocks

Jealous sorcerer detected.

This is true. I'm Chaotic Evil but personally identify as Lawful Good. It's discrimination for paladins to use Smite Evil on me. Please respect my alignment preference.

If you hate the alignment system, tell us and we will talk about playing a different game or just not use it. Don't lead us on by giving us demons and detect evil that detects the demons as evil, then revel that the demons are good people and detect evil could not help less with finding out weather someone is actually evil.

>weather

Paladins the land over have been striking out at innocents, and falling because of it. They say that they struck at evil. Little did they know that a malign sentient cloud drifted above, coloring good folks evil with the shadow it cast.

>Evil is a subtype, not just an alignment!
No you moron. Read the fucking books!

Evil is an alignment that is decided by the evil gods, there is no such bullshit you described.

One fateful night after she’d seduced a priestess of Desna and drained her nearly to death; on a whim she tried an experiment. Since outsiders don’t need to sleep, they don’t normally dream. Out of curiosity, she stole into the thoughts of her dying victim using detect thoughts while the woman lay sleeping, only to be pulled into the Dimension of Dreams. When the priestess died, Arueshalae found herself somehow trapped, but she hadn’t gone unnoticed.

In daring to allow herself to dream, Arueshalae gained Desna’s attention. She had already observed the succubus’s murder of one of her priests, but perhaps having learned a bit of forgiveness from her own divine ally Sarenrae, Desna did not smite Arueshalae. Instead, she reached into Arueshalae’s soul and quickened her larval core. Memories of her mortal life flooded back at once, memories of dreams that never came true. Desna whispered in her ear: “Even demons can dream."

When Arueshalae woke, she was filled with memories and regret, and immediately set about to atone for her very existence. The brush with Desna awoke within her both mythic potential and a great shame. She used her skills as a master spy to hide her change of heart, but when she acted to save the life of a wayward child who had become lost in the Worldwound (Adlo), the truth came out. She knew she would be equally hunted among the crusaders, and so she opted to remain in the Worldwound-hiding until she could learn something vital that she could present to the crusaders and thereby prove her good intentions.

The unique succubus companion for the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path from Pathfinder. She detects as Chaotic as she is no longer Evil. She has a template called Risen that is specifically about fiends becoming good. They go through a process of redemption that replaces their fundamental nature with good versions. Upon becoming good she gains a reverse form of the succubus energy drain.

d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#evilSubtype

d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#subtype-evil

Dumbass

Alignment shit is moronic and needs to be thrown out the window.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of CLEAVE AND SMITE!

...

Demons are different than humans. They aren't born and raised to be evil, they pop into existence with evil being their nature. You aren't going to get good-aligned demons outside of snowflake "redeemed succubus paladin" shit.

They are made of evil, and nine times out of ten them being made of evil makes them evil, but they are not always evil. A good demon is not a snowflake.

>DMs the type who would have us in situations that delve into this morality problem.
>remind him that as cool as that is, it physically cant happen when all moral qualms can be solved with detect evil, smite evil.

No, it is. A fucking huge snowflake with red flags sticking from all orifices.

I puked in my mouth a little bit.
It's yet another "redeemed succubus, wat do?" thread and an attempt to justify a dumb fetish. All that'll come of it is OP and a couple others trying weakly to defend it, people writing lengthy posts about how demons don't work like that, a few DEUS VULT'ers, and an user whining about how he hates alignments and everyone else should too.

Just roll a good-aligned tiefling and stop breaking the thing demons are known and loved for.

>playing 3.pf

The OP literally describes a situation where detect and smite wouldn't solve it.

Then use fire. Fire solves everything.

>"I'm the one good demon!" isn't snowflakey to the extreme
Literally Drizzt.

Except there's plausibly more than one. No where near drizzt levels.

You're funny. His father was kind of leaning toward good-ish, one of his sisters is stated to have had the possibility of being good had Zaknalfein been able to mentor her, and so forth. Good-aligned Drow are much more plausible than Good-aligned demons because it's a result of culture as opposed to literally being composed of evil

Drizzt being a snowflake has much, much more to do with things other than his alignment.

My point still stands.

Drizz't isn't even much of a snowflake, the problem lies with all the bad OCs that tried to copy him. The only real issue with the character itself is that he's a little quick to angst.

Come on now, user. He's pretty faggy even for an elf.

This has already been fixed, most anti "evil" stuff now affects all outsiders (fey, celestials, fiends and sometimes aberrations).

That doesn't sound like fixed, that sounds like they made it worse.

It makes more sense as a banishing type thingy, I think. If they ever make a Planescape book (pleasepleaseplease), they could easily re-rule it to be "things not native to the plane you're on".

(Also shit I forgot elementals)

>implying planescape isn't long forgotten

There were Modrons and Slaad in the first 5e monster manual.

How long is it going to take people to realize said "auto-smite mentality," is a meme derived from idiots misinterpreting jokes from 2007, and then carrying them on as fact through 2010? So many of the 4chins' complains about modern Veeky Forums are caused by children taking sarcasm and cynicism from ten years ago seriously and building a culture on top of those misconceptions. Veeky Forums became the place to go if you fancied yourself a deviant eccentric, and just a little spoiler alert here, if you think that about yourself and you're still in school odd are you're an ignoramus. So said people see the cool internet club house when people start making flash animations and youtube videos about the place, in spite of one of the oldest rules about Veeky Forums being: don't talk about Veeky Forums (it's not even listed in the rules anymore). Which, yes, it was an inevitability. As use of the internet became ever more popular and increasingly accessible, Veeky Forums would eventually be found out. It's not like it was hidden or anything, you just sort of had to hear about it to know about it because who's going to punch hing "Veeky Forums.org," into an address bar without knowing it was a thing ahead of time? Nobody. Veeky Forums didn't used to be great or anything, but it sure as fuck didn't buy into it's own shit.
This very thread has slowly derived from (what I hope) was an underhanded sarcastic statement into a legitimate discussion as to what doesn't and doesn't deserve to be smote.

If a demon is good you absolutely should not smite it.The rub is finding out if a demon is good.

Did you completely miss my point, or are you an ~8/10?

I'm sorry user I don't really like commenting on blogs.

Are we in the 18th century?

0, try harder

In all honesty you took a lot of words to say 'this is a meme, and I don't like it'. Like, you didn't even have a point, you were just airing your grievances.

> statements about a group made at said group contain point
k

>VIA 9GAG.com
bruh

>there are people who unironically try to redeem beings that are literally made of evil

Obviously, your god/ess will give a sign that it's not evil. Until then, cleave and smite.

>If a demon is good
That's a paradox, you fucking faggot.

>I puked in my mouth a little bit.
I don't see how it's that bad.
Sure, it's a redeemed succubus, but it's not some stupid cheesy 'the power of love', bs. It's direct divine intervention, ties into the existing lore that demons come from larva that were once human souls. Full on divine intervention reawakens the human part that was part of their canon existence for a long time.

That's probably the least bad way to have 3.pf demons become good.

The only one better I can think is Fall From Grace, and that was full on planescape, which did funny things with dnd morality.

>put a helm of opposite alignment on an evil outsider
>they are now good, but can still be killed with smite

>force helm on outsiders (let's say succubi for simplicity sake)
>shackle them in dungeon rooms
>reap mad evil deity cred by farming fallen paladins
>retire to a comfy plane

>They can be flavors of good and neutral and still be affected by detect evil/smite!
I agree. I should be able to smite every alignment.

What is the single grossest Demon in the setting and are there any redeemed examples?

It depends on the setting.

Nah, you can be LG while being a demon, but the subtype still has you be treated as "evil" for all alignment purposes, meaning that a Succubus paladin can be smited, but a solar antipaladin cannot.

Really dickish desu

I meant D&D and all its inheritors.

>using alignment
>playing games which feature alignment

for Paizo at least, they established the means that you could get a LG demon. And that means explitely makes you lose the subtype as you change alignment.

So at least in Pathfinder, no, this is not a thing.

they're fiends user, not fey, not yokai, or djinn or any other kawaii creature type that is called "demon" outside dnd.

Any creature with an int above 6 and the ability to talk, is a character.

Alignment is stupid.

Anyone got that quote about pretending to be idiots attracting real idiots?

that's one of the things in the post you linked to mate

...

iirc in 3e/3.5 you count as being your alignment AND whatever your subtypes are, so a Demon (CE), for example, that puts on a cursed item of opposite alignment counts as being Lawful, Chaotic, Good, and Evil. It basically just pings as "yes" to alignment-dependent effects.

So you're telling me that the god damn beings made of up of literal Evil energy from the Evil plane of existence, who are fucking Evil incarnate...can be Good more often than Drow, a mortal race.

Well, it's technically possible yes.

Demons are always evil and should always be destroyed wherever and whenever possible

No, its not. Not in D&D. They are literally made of Evil energy. It's a black and white morality system for high fantasy shenanigans. You want moral ambiguity, go play something else.

Outside of truly extraordinary circumstances. Fiends are more often than not Evil by their very nature. Assume them to be evil unless proven otherwise and keep your smiting hand ready

But smite harms all creatures, and my detection pings angels AND demons just the same.

How can I be sure?

It's literally technically possible in dnd

There are even canon examples