Age of Sigmar General

Hm, would suck for my cross-facton skelehorde.

>I imagine some of the factions may not even have them, in that case what's the ruling on that?

I'm guessing that the only faction restriction will be the four grand alliances, so some of the sub-factions not having battleline units wouldn't matter.

Like, say you want to use White Lions. Their subfaction is Lion Rangers, which currently only has two units, neither of which are likely going to be a battleline unit. If you make your army only out of these two types of units you're fine, since they all have the Lion Rangers keyword, thus ignoring the battleline requirement.

>If your army is mixed, then you need X amount of battleline units from each separate faction, depending on the game size.

That sounds a bit restricting, especially considering how many faction keywords there are. Maybe you just need to have the required amount of battleline units from one faction keyword to be allowed to take other stuff from other factions (in your grand alliance)?

I get that, but the question is what are the restrictions if you have your white lions, and say, order draconis? Order draconis will have a battleline unit, but your white lions wont, so if you do mixed of those 2, the only battleline units you will need are from order draconis, as opposed to doing 2 factions with battleline units, you would be only doing one. So there might be benefits there. You may see a trend in meta that it is recomended that if you do go 2 factions, choose one that has battleline units, and one that doesnt. Or 2 that don't have battleline units.

>yfw most campaigns really will be nagash and mournghouls for the first few months

HE POSTED IT AGAIN THE MADMAN

Not AoS, but still a good sign of the coming times.

I'd say you simply wouldnt be able to combine factions that don't have battleline units, since you don't meet the requirement.

If you want to combine Lion Rangers and Order Draconis, but neither have a battleline unit you need to find a faction that does. So you'd take enough Witch Aelves, High Elf Spearmen, or whatever battelline unit from order you want until you meet the requirement. Then you can spend the rest of your points on as much white lions and order draconis stuff as you want.

Or at least that's how I'd guess it might work, hard to say at this point.

>I'd say you simply wouldnt be able to combine factions that don't have battleline units, since you don't meet the requirement.
I seriously doubt that. That becomes needlessly restrictive, and is terrible for smaller factions with no battlelines because people would be less inclined to take them. White lions would especially suffer because they have no heroes. Heroes seem to be an important part not only in gameplay but in scenarios as well.

Since it's supposed to be for more competitive matches it might be more restrictive. Or they might just give every faction a battleline unit.

This. What would be the mainline troops of a lion ranger army if not lion rangers?

They could always do it by army for unupdated units. Like how would legacy WoC even function since it's just a hodge-podge of old units?

For now...

> Reminder that Blood Bowl failed
> And that was in a world without Guildball
> And without Dreadball
> And when it wasn't competing against it's own directly-ported PC version
> When the company had a better design team

To be fair, they are getting at least 3 more next month. Not even including Alarielle and her giant beetle.

Why would you even need to go cross faction

What about Collegiate Arcane? Or Chaos Gargants? There's some 'factions' that have no units, just heroes and monsters, how woud that work?

They have to use the generic Batteline troops. Sorta like if you didnt run a Crypt Flayer court, you'd be stuck with Skeletons and Zambos

No I think those would be the exceptions to the rules. The factions without battlelines could ally or be run alone unrestricted. Most of the other factions though would have one, and to run those alone would have no restrictions, but to go with another faction you would just need to take however many battleline troops from that faction as required by the game size.

my fav kit. Wish they did more with demigryphs.

Let me give an example how I think it would work. Keep in mind i don't know the numbers so im just pulling these out of my ass just to demonstrate.

Lets say the restrictions are as follows:
500 pt games, 1 battleline troop from each faction, and up to 2 heroes
1000 pts games. 2 battleine troops from each faction, and up to 3 heroes
and so on.

So lets take the stormcast eternals (which we know has a battleline troom of liberators), the devoted of sigmar (who there battleline i am betting are the flagellants) and the lion rangers, but lets assume they don't get a battleline troop.

So if i wanted to run 1000 pts of some combinations of the above

To go stormcasts and devoted, you would need 2 units of liberators and 2 units of flagellants. The rest is up to you.

To go stormcasts and white lions, you would need 2 units of liberators, and the rest is up to you.

To go all 3 you would need 2 units of liberators, 2 units of flagellants, and the rest is up to you

Or you could go all stormcasts, and run whatever you wanted. So you would not need to take liberators. But you could still if you wanted.

But since the while lions don't have battlelines, the advantage to bringing them is you would not need to pay a coretax out of them, just what you need from the faction that does.

Again this is all fun speculation as we don't really know the details until the GW stores get their copies for the campaign and we start seeing page leaks and photos.

That makes no sense, why would you penalize a faction with variety? At that point it would be better if the core units didn't exist.

The difference is those larger factions with battleline troops would have much more variety and options than those without. We're talking the factions with like only 2 warscrolls would be the ones without battlelines.

Then how do you prevent armies from being like 10 celestial hurricanums and mages since they have no battleline?

That would be kinda dumb for a lot of factions though.

I currently play the Daughters of Khaine stuff with a Sorceress, since the DoKs don't have any wizards. If I were to do that according to your example in a 1000 Pts game I would need 2 Units of Witch Elves to get the Daughters of Khaine coretaxe (makes sense) but then I would also need to take 2 units of Dreadspears or Bleakswords simply so I could take the Sorceress. But if I take a Battlemage from the Collegiate Arcane, I get a Wizard without having to pay any additional coretaxe.

In that way it would almost always be better to combine your 'main' force with armies that don't have battleline unit. It would probably be better if you only had to pay the coretax for your main faction and after that you're free to take whatever.

Well that point is moot because as far as we've seen, sticking within a faction has no restrictions anyway.

So going 10 celestial huricanums and mages is possible anyway because of the one faction keyword exception

We wanted a points system and because of that we're getting an army building restriction system. It's what we asked for, and because of that, there will be a meta. There will be a trend of some things working better than others. It's just how it is. Learning to work with it, around it, or against it is going to become part of this game.

We have to keep in mind that there will always be the warscroll battalions. I hear those will be costing points, which is a good thing. Not charging points for 40k formations is one of the reasons I think that game is headed down the shitter. Also with formations and detachments getting way out of hand with special abilities.

The restriction is in place to stop you doing shit like fielding Nagash in a 1000 point game or whatever, if you did you wouldn't have enough points for your require battle lines etc.

If you'd field only Deathlord stuff you could still field Nagash in a 1000 pts game. So if that's what it's supposed to prevent it already failed.

How? It says stuff like Brutes are made Battle lines by being in a keyword linked army, not heroes.

If it requires lets say 4 battle line units and the cheapest battle line we know about is ~150 points that's only 400 points for a hero/monster in a 1000 point game.

There may be other restrictions in place. We may see that nagash is like 800 pts, making it a viability question in a 1000 pt game. Or perhaps what you can summon you have to pay for, reducing his effectiveness in small games.

We don't know much yet really. So it's dumb to say it already failed before we even have photos of it.

What I can say is there will still be imbalance and power meta, as there alway will be with any game.

When your entire army keeps within a faction keyword, you do not need to buy battleline troops for it. Only when your army consists of different faction keywords do you need to buy battleline units. That's all we know though so far. There may be more, though.

You read it wrong.

You do need battle lines regardless, the difference is that if you keep to one key word then larger units are able to be battle lines.

Read it again, Brutes count as battle lines if your army all shares the Ironjawz keyword but don't count as battle lines if they don't.

Then what would be the battleline unit of a deathlords army be? Do you think you'd need to take 4 Morghasts so you can have an army with either Arkhan, Mannfred, Neferata or Nagash? I wouldn't mind that but it would seem pretty strange.

They might not have any, that would mean you would need to take X units of battle line troops from another faction and wouldn't gain the benefit of being able to take stronger battle lines.

That's the trade off.

>What I can say is there will still be imbalance and power meta, as there alway will be with any game.

Sure, but the way thinks it might work would make combining factions with variety a waste of points while combining it with the small old factions would usually be a better option. And that seems silly since GW would obviously prefer if I buy there new shit with variations instead of the old stuff that will likely stop being produced soon.

The problem with gw publishing points as oppose to letting the community come up with it is that if they screw up (which they inevitably will) with the balance, it will be that much harder for me to convice people to play with a fan made comp since its not "official".

Not excited about a rank and file core tax again. Aos is finally letting me play a mixed-faction hyper elite force, inefficent as it might be, i dont want to go back to putting in msu core chaff.

How it will actually work seems fairly simple if this image is anything to go by.
Lets take a death army for example and lets say we're playing 1000 points which requires 4 battle lines (might be a different number)

Skeleton warriors might be a Battle line by default, Grave guard a battle line for a keyword linked Deathrattle army.

We could take 4 units of skeleton warriors to complete out battle line and then add in a hero/monster from another faction of death with out remaining points.
OR
We could take 2 units of skeletons 2 units of Grave guard which completes out battle lines and then add on a wight king and whatever else we can afford.

It was already difficult to get people to play because there was no official points system.

Using fan points or no points just made the victories and defeats feel hollow.

It won't be a problem if you stay within your theme. I for one am happy I won't be seeing the best warmachines/buff units thrown into every army.

The only hollow defeats I've had have been from completely BS scenarios honestly.

Then don't play Matched Play, surely?

The problem will be people treating it as the "official" (read only) way of playing the system. Its a matter of perception.

Points are good - i just dont want gw to do anything with them

>mfw buying sigmar models because the local redshirt is pushing the summer campaign hard and I would feel bad if nobody participated

you dont need to buy sigmar models, bro. they are not the only faction to choose from

>tfw you're a redshirt and all your pushing the campaign has done is make people turn to ebay/forge world//china to buy their favorite OOP armies

That would still be a bit inconvenient for my Daughters of Khaine but if it means I get a point system in which Witch Elves are cheap enough to be worth fielding again I guess that's worth it.

There will probably be an option to turn some certain elite units into Battle lines for extra points or something although might not be a thing at launch.

They could easily say like

"Stormcast paladins have a minimum unit size of 5 and cost 60 points per model

In an army consisting of only models with the Order keyword an additional cost of 15 points per model Stormcast Paladins may be taken as a Battle line unit, this upgrade is free if all units in your army contain the keyword "Stormcast"

true, but from what weve seen, the old factions have been gutted to the point of just being auxilliary forces for the main sigmar forces, so you might as well just get the new stuff.

points are not good....historical works just fine without them, why would aos benefit from them?
The good thing of aos is, if you're playoing battleplans you always have a chance of victory even in the most grim situations.
I played a game today, for example, where i faced with a shitty army made up just from the starter set a fucking army with:
-Archaon
-2 fucking skaven sizzlefizzler(warp lightining cannons)
-a verminlord
Guess what? i lost on the last turn-and only by a minor vicyory. If i rolled a double turn i would have won.
I played a lot of Aos and every game with a battleplan has been fun and balanced, regardless of the army lists.
Having tax units again means every cool fluffy army is again shit and unplayable, and it literally kills the best factors of Aos: beign able to play what you want, how you want to enjoy "your dudes".
No idea why they are listening to fantasyfags again, since they were one of the worse community I EVER saw(only 40k is that bad)and they killed a fucking game.

>Waaah why should there be multiple ways to play, everyone should be forced to play pretend with their toy soldiers like I do waaah

>means every cool fluffy army is again shit and unplayable
Like what? They clearly are saying that there will be way more options for fluffy armies. I'd imagine for slaves to darkness/bloodbound it would be like this:

>slaves to darkness
core battleline: Marauders, marauder horsemen, warriors of chaos, hounds
expanded battleline: chosen, knights, chariots

>bloodbound
core battleline: blood warriors, blood reavers
expanded battleline: bloodcrushers, skullreapers, wrathmongers

Also it makes sense now how my local redshirt insisted on autistically keeping to one keyword with his armies now. I'm just happy that I'll stop seeing a hurricanum+battlewizards with hammerers and irondrakes any more at my shop. Wonder how they'll limit monsters/warmachines/heros though.

>everyone should be forced to play pretend with their toy soldiers
It would've been nice if at least you put the effort to read.
If you ever played warhammer in the last 20 years you would have noticed how the meta game literally killed the whole fucking game, to the point new players were completely absent and only the so called" veterans" kept playing, obviously buying next to zero because they alreafy had their entire list tailored to perfection.
The whole sense of Aos was to get rid of this mentality and bringing the game to a fucking GAME again and not a job where you do must bring certain thing in order to avoid complete annihilation turn 2.
Im not eager to see that happen again, because the other 2 formats are clearly going to become obsolete-people are masturbating about points from weeks and they are not even out.
>Wonder how they'll limit monsters/warmachines/heros though.
% of total points, according to redshirt at warhammer world.

the point is: points were not enough? I run a mixed army of every(not every, but i am working on it)army converted to papa nurgle.
Not to break the game, not to be a shitlord, just because I found the idea cool and gave me passion for the hobby again beign able to acyually play it. It has 0 sinergy by itself but seeign my Plague arakcarok prodly converted with sweat and paint is fun and I loved Aos for pushing that type of play.
of course i saw shitlords playing broken shit like putting chamaleon skins in EVERY list-but its not somethoing impossible to deal with.
With everyone accepting competitive as standard play.and you know it will be-my army is trash, is unplayable and i either have to buy again units i don't fucking want, spend hours I don't have to paint them-fuck, i don't even have time to paint models I like-and then beign crushed from a meta lists because "hey man, its totally fair, you see, points and limitations!"

I could see some of the bigger Monster/hero.warmachines having some sort of battle line cost, like maybe a big strong monster will require you to have an extra 2 battle lines on top of your point level or something.

My nigga.

I love being able to field what I want in themed, fluffy lists, fighting a much more fun variety of opponents, instead of neckbeards who overanalyzed the points cost of every single unit and then maxed their armies out on the "best" shit, leading to constant netlisting.

Fucking grognards can cry all they want about "MAH WHFB AOS IS SHIT" but I for one DO NOT want to go back to being forced to field 250 Slaves/Clanrats just to not get tabled.

I just want to play and have fun. I'd rather lose a close game than LOLTHIRTEENTH ULOSE my opponent in turn 2 - that way we both have fun.

Wish more people thought like this.

sorry to disrupt this little narrative youve created, but the fantasy scene had plenty of new blood, even more so because of end times.

Competetive fantasy wasnt even a fucking thing.

>% of total points, according to redshirt at warhammer world.
any idea on what percentages? I'm working on chaos dorfs, which is basically a ton of warmachines. how SCGT did it seemed fair. Seems weird they'd do units for battleline but points for everything else.

>points were not enough?
I kind of agree, restrictions at the scgt like 5 max warmachines, no more than 2 warmachines, caps on multiple units of the same type, but only infantry scored seemed more than enough. Percentages like fantasy got a little silly and even back then, would removing those percentages really break the game? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to allow "unbound" in your area. It's pretty shit for 40k without synergies like AoS has. Hell maybe it's in the game already. Buffs for being bound but no nerfs for playing unbound.

It's points AND battle lines, it's kind of a core tax or not depending on what army you're playing.

>had plenty of new blood
Its so nice when you live in your fantasy world within your head, do you?
I used to travel a lot when fantasy was still alive and the rates of new player dropped down to 0.
every guy that has somehow got convinced to start fantasy dropped it usually not even after gettin 1/3 of the army.
Because NO new player enjoys
-Buying the rulebook
-Buying the army book
-buying 200+ models
-most of them they maybe won't like but have to buy regardless because THEY ARE NEEDED MU CORE TAX
-they have to PAINT THEM ALL in order to play
-you know how much fucking time is needed to paint, expecially when you are at your first step?

I wouldn't have fucking began playing in this conditions.

The point is: points ARE enough.
Most heroes are not good themselves and serve only the purpose to buff your units(unless you go with heroes on monsters).
If you put a high cost on heroes people would get thesmselves troops-because points/value they are cheaper and better-but they need heroes to work.
Thing balances itself.
like, bloodreavers: they are shit by themselves, but with a single bloodsecrator they get huge. Add a lord of khorne and they reroll hits too. They become EXTREMELY good. the bloodsecrator and the lord themselves are not that good when unbuffed-they can deal roughly the same damage of one single bloodreaver when buffed-but they are going to be obviously a LOT more costly.
You see where i'm going? i don't really see the need for battlelines, because they only limit those who want to play all kind of shit. units from different keywords don't buff each other anyway, so in order to be stronger people would get units from the same faction anyway.

But its all speculation to this point. Ill just have fun in the global campaign and wait to see how the general compendium changes the game.

Hey guys. I wanna start with AoS and I'm interested in destruction, iron jawz to be precise. Do the hold up well at they moment?

>any idea on what percentages?
it will probably something like whfb. What was it, 25% each?
>5 max warmachines, no more than 2 warmachines, caps on multiple units of the same type, but only infantry scored seemed more than enough
You didn't really needed that.
Every new unit of aos is either not-ranged or has short-range on missile weapons.
So they just needed to make existing warmachines REALLY costly.
You want to field a wap lighting cannon?
Sure, but now each one costs 3 times my standard unit. And bang, magically its not broken anymore.

yes, they do.
Multiple wounds, they hit hard(expecially when in small units because you can have multiple big weapons on the field), a mage that stomps you to death with his god's foot and a retarded obese wyvern that crushes you under his belly.

Yes, they are.

>points are enough
I agree. In a perfect world where every unit is pointed correctly that works perfectly. I think at most there should be a systemlike SCGT uses.
>min 1 hero
>max 6x minimum unit size of dudes of the same type
>max 3 units of the same thing deployed, 4 if core
>max 30 wounds in a unit, 40 if core
>max 5 warmachines, no more than 2 of the same type
>objectives only scored by non-hero/monster/warmachine or something.

I think it was more for variety than anything. Since warmachine are so point and click, it made it way harder for armies to just pick the most efficient one and slap 6 of them in or something if they needed range.

Nice! Thank you.

I started Skaven during end times

I bought and painted an entire 3000 point army, including 120 clanrats, and learned all the rules before End Times was over

Then the game I had just fallen in love with was killed forever.

A friend is selling his greenskins to me

How is this for a starter army?

>20 Boar Boyz
>20 Black Orcs
>80 Boyz
>Orc Big Boss, on foot and boar
>Black Orc Boss
>Grimgor
>6 River Trolls
>2 shamans

And 2 boxes of the new brutes as well as the megaboss, on sprue still. The rest is on square bases and painted OKish. He wants $250 for the lot of it

For a starter army? Too big; most AOS games don't involve that many models in my experience. But on the other hand it would give you a lot of versatility, you wouldn't be stuck with the same list due to a lack of models to change things round.

How big is a standard Sigmar game anyway?

Although wounds are an inperfect balancing mechanism, 30 wounds is about as low as I see, 100 wounds is around the top limit unless people are playing an especially large game. I guess 70-80 wounds is most common.

But to reiterate, I can only talk about my local scene.

>Then the game I had just fallen in love with was killed forever.
Did GW take away your 8th edition rulebooks?

It's a lot of dudes, far more than most AoS games usually need, but it'd give you a lot of versatility.
Also, the selection of models is pretty good. I'd go for it, assuming the paint is decent enough for your tastes.

2000 pts willprobably be the standard AOS game. if the points trends continue that's probably going to be about 50-80 models depending on army. A Warrior of chaos will likely be 20 points, normal infantry around 10, normal characters from 80-150, we know archaon is 700, gordrak is 700, nagash is 900, and 10 high elf bow dudes are 100.

Lots of options to use different army loadouts, seems cool for the price as long as they're painted to a pretty okay standard.

Until very recently GW dissalowed 8th being played in their stores so...

7th ed*
Skaven never got an 8th ed book

I thought that sort of thing was manager's discretion? Some think non-current games being played helps build a community and boost sales, others think it reduces sales because they only want stuff currently on the shelves to be played.

>Until very recently
wat

Can you play it in stores again?

too big bro
As this user said 70-80 wounds is the standard, 100-120 is a "big"game(can be played within 2 hours tho)and 30-50 is a small game.

New leadership higher up. They're responsable for start collectings, generals handbook, and very likely the attempt to integrate forge world into stores. My redshirt got an email that people can play 8th in-store if they wanted to, and he allows it on weekdays if the tables aren't being used.

Can we talk about Silver Tower please?

What about it do you want to talk about? Give us more than that user.

Anything really.

Anyone have the painting guides for it? I heard they were in some issues of White Dwarf recently

I'm looking for pictures of Fantasy/Age of Sigmar cultists, preferably made from or featuring heavily bits from the Empire Militia box. Problem is all that comes up is 40k cultists. Any advice? I need non-marauder/warrior inspiration.

I really hope gorebeast chariots are core. Otherwise I'm pretty screwed with my list :( I just wanna see the points so I can know

New ogres when?

It's all Ogor now.

Truly, the great stagnates gave run out of cocaine, or perhaps snorted some more common sense by accident.

Do you guys actually collect the miniatures, paint them, and play the tabletop game?

I'd love to do that but don't have the time, patience, skill, or money.

But I love the lore so far of 40k and was blown-away when last night I saw the sheer amount of Warhammer novels that there are. I'd love to dive into the lore some more.

there's always the cult of the possessed/carnival of chaos to look at for inspiration

>carnival of chaos
Damn I almost forgot about them, that brings me back to when I was trying mordheim. It was such an interesting little bit of fluff. Too bad it doesn't fit intot the current aestetic since it could make a perfect boxed game kind of thing with great models.