Warhammer 40k General

ID makes them a counter to MCs and deathstars, though. Plus you're not just going to take one sniper scout squad and negate all MCs since there will still be saves to contend with.

With a paintbrush you don't need any special ventilation. Assuming you're using normal acrylic hobby/mini paints.

There shouldn't be 350 point MC models without EW like there shouldn't be 250 point Infantry models without EW.

How is a 1500 highlander style tournament? Never been to a tournament. Should I try it out?

Death stars and good MCs will just laugh off 6s to ID unless they also rend.

If they also rend they will delete most tyranid monsters instantly making a poor codex even worse.

>Also, I fear fucking up and ruining a mini
This is the reason I'm not collecting Black Templars.
Gotta get good first.

tournaments are normally 1850 singles or 2000 pt doubles (1000 per person)

I'm glad none of you retards actually write GWs rules.

Go for it but be prepared to lose badly.

I guess that's where you and I disagree on what we want Snipers to do.

I'd prefer Snipers to become Anti-Upgrade / battle field control. Picking off Special/Heavy Weapon users or Characters.

I'd also rather Snipers become less a Ranged upgrade and more a Special Weapon. (Aka not just take a squad of 10 Scout Snipers, but Sniper Team becomes a 1-3 model per unit style, wounding on 3+, 4+ Precision, -2 LoS. Kinda like a how the Vindicare is, but not as good.

Only with an airbrush or spray can. Unfortunatly most primers are spray can. Only somewhat decent brush-on primers I know are vallejo.

What are death stars again?

One big group that's hyper powerful. Like 10 Librarians on bikes with Force weapons and a rerollable 3++ on every facing.

Yes.

why do i get the feeling you keep making up memes every few months?

>Like 10 Librarians on bikes with Force weapons and a rerollable 3++ on every facing.
That's fucking disgusting

Yeah but it ends up costing like 800 points so it either steam rolls everything or you lose.

FIRST FOR SLAANESH!!

Themesong: youtube.com/watch?v=Hiu1hPdJk-Y

Wait so can Slow and Purposeful units assault straight after Deep Striking out of a Drop Pod

How's this, then?

>Sniper Rifle
>Special Weapon (typically one per 5 models)
>S:X AP4 Heavy 1 Precision Shots, Sniper, Rending, Pinning
>Sniper: Automatically Wounds on a to Wound roll of 4+, deals D3 Wounds on a 6.

Nope, you can never Assault the turn you entered the battlefield from Reserves, unless a special rule specifically allows it.

Not one per 5 models no. That's essentially the same weapon it is now but you add the D3 wounds. That's not major enough to warrant being reduced to a special weapon I think. Maybe a point cost upgrade but not by much neither.

Should the D3 wounds spill over?
Also, I agree with that sniper rifles shouldn't just be a convenient, cheap weapon alternative, but should be a choice that has weight and punch. A sniper squad with height and los on a portion of your infantry should be a "Oh shit gotta get those dudes" situation, not what it currently is, a way to make backline objective holders less useless.
Why did they lose pinning, anyway?

powerwolf is a great band for 40k in general

Probably too weak unless you make them free or something. Make them AP2 and 15 points per model.

>Lets introduce more AP creep

Rolled 5, 6 = 11 (2d6)

I roll to hit with my shoota.

I know right? I can't help but imagine a squad of noise marines playing that particular song. It's too ... energetic for a song about boners.

Sacred and Wild/Night of the Werewolves is basically Space Wolves, Armata Strigoi is Vampire Counts/Blood Angels, In the Name of God is Black Templars as fuck..

Rolled 2, 4 = 6 (2d6)

I roll to dakka my target, this thread, with my shoota

Snipers right now would be fine if it used BS more, like
BS1-3 precision shots on 6s
4-6 5s
7-9 4s
10 3s

>Make them AP2
No, man, seriously, don't add to the AP bloat.

People like you are the reason this game has gone to shit, because if it isn't cheap and isn't AP 2 then it isn't worth fielding.

You are a cancer.

That's actually cool. A finesse weapon, reliant on your skill. A scout or guardsman would have only have so much skill as opposed to, say, a vindicare.

>blacktemplars
youtube.com/watch?v=SW2bqSbbo1g

Or an Ork.

Well I'll be damned. I forgot that one and surprised there's a tribute too. Definitely one of the best and most fun powermetal bands around

>Let's make Sniper a slightly different (better?) Plasma
>REEEEEEEE AP CREEP IN MUH SUPERHEAVYHAMMER REEEEEEEE NORMIE GO HOME
Fine, how about AP4 rending, but does D3 wounds (rolled to save once) on any to wound roll?

Because every time I play 40k I stare despondently at my rulebook and wish it had more extraneous tables to roll on.

>super heavies
>threatened by snipers
What about terminators? Meganobs? hell, tyranids as a whole as they don't have easy access to invulnerable saves?

If anything more ap2 just reinforces the superheavy/GMC meta.

>To hit roll
>extraneous
????

You do know how precision shot works, right?

Well, any change will always involve one of these methods:

- It gets more complicated
- It gets more streamlined
- It gets baked into something/homogenized

Pick your poison. If you wanted to play a game where everything's done for you, those exist, they're called fucking videogames. Christ. God forbid you have to have some human input in a fucking physical dice game.

>D3 wounds
Actually, I like this. It makes it more of a budget Vindicare. It shouldn't spill over, though. Also, -2 to LOS! for PS is a good idea.

This.
What you are doing is making elite infantry useless because your sense of the game is so skewed by power creep.
It's sorta sad you don't see this.

>Waaaah vehicles can die in one hit
>Waaaah MCs can't
>Here's my 27th attempt at shitty homebrew to try to rectify my fried rectum
Protip: fuck off.

Roll a 6, choose your target. No tables required.

More streamlined is not a bad thing. Reduced player input is, so don't streamline things by removing choices. But making the game more accessible without making it less dynamic is always a good thing.

>Game is broken
>Let's fix it
>No, if it was broken, GW would have fixed it because that's what they're paid to do
>40k is as fair and balanced as it could ever possibly be

this is what I ended up doing for my Templar, it worked out pretty nice with the BaC marines since the torsos are one piece. also it cost around 40 bucks for the 5 man upgrade to ship to the US which is cheaper than GW shipping the Black Templar upgrade for some reason.

>don't talk about the game
>spam memes instead!
Clearly from /v/.

What they should really do is weed out all the special rules that do the exact same thing. Increasing input wouldn't be seen as complicated if you didn't have to keep track of a million pointless things to begin with.

I use citadel's Imperial Primer, brushed on. You don't need a ventilated space. Also I am not an artist and have never done any sort of art project before and am painting decent minis. I just follow Duncan's advice step by step. He's on gw's youtube channel

Man the 30k Templar Brotherhood minis look amazing.
Do you have a 40k Templar army too?

>No tables required.
Yes?
That's how precision shot always worked. I'm just suggesting that snipers could, say, roll a 5 to hit and if they're bs4 take that that as a precision shot.

Agreed. Also, special rules that confer other special rules (Sniper and Zealot come to mind) are derpy and confusing for new players that have to hunt around in their rulebooks for obscure rules interactions.

You mean like you're doing now?
>I WANT /V/ERMIN TO LEAVE xDDD

>Orks are a melee race!
>I2

I agree. and even if they aren't 100% what the 30k Templars are supposed to look like, I think they look close enough! I'm building a 30k Templars army right now actually. The great thing about 30k Imperial Fists is that you can choose to build your army as the standard wall-building fortifying siege Imperial Fists, or you can take special units and make proto-Black Templars by having Sigismund lead your army. pic related is my WIP at the moment.

It's just fucking tedious that one twat continually goes on about how his precious vehicles aren't as good as MCs he hates. I'm bored of seeing his stupid fucking suggestions for vehicles to no longer explode, for MCs to have an exact copy of the vehicle damage chart, and other shite that just cuts variety from the game.

MCs and vehicles are completely different in mechanics, and the game is more interesting like that. Please stop trying to make them the same.

So you have to have a table comparing your BS to the precision shots requirement. Or is it somehow obvious that BS3 gives PS on a 6 and BS7 and 8 get it on a 4?

You know that you are the first one to bring up anything like that in this thread, right?
Stop being a bitch because someone wants to discuss the game mechanics.
Even as it stands, it is a fact that for much of the life of 40k, vehicles have been shitty death traps, and any walker that wasn't an elite SM dread would get rolled by an MC.
If you are alright with it, say so, but don't prattle on like it hasn't been a long running issue. I remember people also said that old power weapons were perfectly fine, despite shitting on all TEQ infantry for existing.

not him but how about this

>If your sniper has an effective ballistic skill over 5, subtract 5 from your ballistic skill, your precision shot is modified by that amount to a minimum of 2+

>any walker that wasn't an elite SM dread would get rolled by an MC.

I've seen a lot of the game's Monstrous Creatures that are absolutely pathetic in close combat with a Walker with some not even being able to do anything to one with their regular attacks.

tau and eldar MC/GC should be vehicles.

Yeah, because the whole "let's make snipers more deadly" totally doesn't directly follow from last thread's vehicle/MC discussion (which started the sniper idea) right?

MCs are not the problem. A couple of specific MCs are overpowered/undercosted, but thinking that means game mechanics need to change to nerf all MCs shows why Veeky Forums should have nothing to do with rules writing.

No argument here.

That rule doesn't affect anything because Vindicares already get Deadshot.

Defnitely. it's absolutely retarded that they can't be affected by Melta.

They should probably just create a new type of Unit Category for those.

Why not just Walkers?

I think this is the one thing everyone can agree on.

>totally doesn't directly follow from last thread's vehicle/MC discussion (which started the sniper idea) right?
No, it doesn't, because the point was to make sniper rifles something more than cheap backline alternative weapons.
Further, sniper rifles have been nerfed in the game with successive editions. Look them up in 2e, a sniper rifle was brutal shit, compared to now where a squad of snipers can literally be ignored.
You are the one trying to strap them together.

Maybe the Tau I could see, but not the Wraith Knight and certainly not the Wraith Lord, Wraith Guard and Wraith Blades.

you could make some sort of special rule that snipers get double thier units BS count for double, but that would only really buff the tau so meh

MC discussion aside, the removal of pinning from barrage and snipers is baffling. Shit like Mortars and Snipers are point sinks for a reason that eludes me.

There should be different levels of sniper rifles. Like strength X+2 or assault instead of heavy. Also, for cheap units like guardsmen (and at 2pt a pop) it's perfectly balanced in its current configuration.

>You are the one trying to strap them together.
Nope. The reply chain in the last thread started with vehicle/MC butthurt, then led () to the sniper rifle suggestion, which spilled into this thread.

I might go Imperial Fists with my BaC set too.
I dont know if anyone plays 30k in my area, but it would be fun for sure.

Here's a synopsis of the discussion:
>Vehicles are shit because they're just worse MCs
>Vehicles aren't worse than MCs, they just have different counters
>MC counters are rare and of questionable effectiveness
>Maybe MCs should have an accessible counter like vehicles do
>Sniper Rifles are useless at the moment but fluffwise should be an effective counter to MCs. Let's make it useful.
>Sniper Rifle rules discussion begins
What part of that seems unreasonable for a general thread for tabletop gameplay? If you'd rather spout memes, try and if you'd rather talk about the setting, try 40k roleplaying general, and if you'd rather talk about your tiny plastic army men, try WIP general.

see
>I'd prefer Snipers to become Anti-Upgrade / battle field control. Picking off Special/Heavy Weapon users or Characters.
>I'd also rather Snipers become less a Ranged upgrade and more a Special Weapon. (Aka not just take a squad of 10 Scout Snipers, but Sniper Team becomes a 1-3 model per unit style
Yeah, all about those MCs, son.

So a couple threads back I had asked for some help as a newbie, with my goal being I wanted to build up to collection of models that would give me decent take-all-comers lists at 1850, 1500, 1000 and 500.

So I believe we more or less established Khorne Demonkin can fit the bill, and is a much better choice than CSM, which was my original intention.

So far what I'm planning to build from my dark vengeance box and add onto with additional models. Here's my idea so far

Lord of Slaughter:
-Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury

Slaughtercult:
-Chaos Lord with Axe of Ruin (dark ven)
-x2 bloodletter units
-possessed unit
-x2 cultist units (dark ven)
-1x chaos space marine unit (dark ven conversion)

Gorepack:
-2x units of bikers (1 dark ven)
-2x units of flesh hounds

War Engine:
-Helbrute (dark ven)

.That there should get me to well 1k points. How is that for a start? Looking for feedback.

They would be fine as walkers

What meme did I spout?

>MC counters are rare and of questionable effectiveness
What is grav? What is plasma? What is poison? What are autocannons and autocannon-equivalents?

...

sniper rifles should be ID and ap2 on the to wound roll of a 6.

>strength X+2
Just make them Fleshbane, then.
>assault
Really? An assault sniper rifle?
>it's perfectly balanced in its current configuration
It's literally useless in its current configuration, and it makes zero sense to make snipers work best in huge blobs.

My man. It's a synopsis of the discussion so far. Not his opinion.

;_;

To expand: not every MC has 6+ wounds. Not every MC has a 2+ or 3+ save. Don't let the unbalanced examples skew your judgement of the unit type.

They'd be just as wonky as what we currently have.

this. I'm tired of all these 'reasonable marine' players and wanting their edgy sniper units buffed to extreme levels. Doesn't matter though, because they never will be!

Can I counter MCs with just bringing Plasma Guns in every Tactical Squad? No one in my local meta play Riptides or Wraithknights.

Most of them will go down to plasma, if you bring a turn it turns in to a game of him trying to be tricky and get in to combat without giving you a clear shot.