Today, I got an ultrasound of my child

>Plus the illithids who don't externally change so they still look like the original race.

That's honestly fucking scary, because internally, it's all Illithid. Imagine some adventurers cutting down some minor villain, a human guy, only to have steaming nasty alien shit fall out. That'd be a great one to pull, especially after his Illithid gullet is full of brains. That's some goddamn body horror right there.

What's your favourite artistic take on Illithids, Veeky Forums? I'm quite partial to this one save for the slightly derpy eyes.

They have to crack skulls to eat brains with tools. It'd be a good "serial killer" twist.

Does the consumption of infant brains carry the same risk of FUCK-YOUR-SHIT prions that eating adult brainmeets has?

Aren't most takes on them similar?

If you don't pull body horror all the time with illithids, you're doing it wrong.

They have a personnel carrier that's the still conscious head of an illithid who fucked up big time.

I perfer the chad illithid from Book of Madness. Nothing quite scary like a swole as fuck brain eating mother fucker.

There's a few different takes on them I've seen. OP's pic is pretty standard, but there's also these lads with distinctly shorter tentacles, a puckered looking mouth area and smaller heads with wrinkly brainy looking craniums.

Unlikely.

You never know til you try, user.

I think that the standard D&D portrayal is the spoopiest looking so I prefer it. Especially the freaky vampiric ones.

Bonus points to the DS ones with the bells

This fucking guy has to be the BBEG of something

THOON is already a pretty good BBEG.

>Be part of the team exploring unknown parts of the far realm
>Come in contact with Thoon
>Get Swole
>Punk the nerd ass illithids who didn't get swole on Thoon
>Fuck all the Illithid bitches

>Illithid bitches
About that...
Mind flayers are hermaphrodites with cloacae. Any given one you see a depiction of could have started as a girl.

Yes I'm aware. If I ever find myself in an ERP or, god forbid, ever ran one if it started with tits it's keeping the tits

Such entry-level xenophilia.

I've been here long enough to know how far the rabbit hole goes and I'm quite fine where I'm at.

Plebeian.

I had a 2ed Spelljammer campaign back in the day where a good aligned party of mostly clerics and Paladins was recruited (willingly not mind controlled or their divine powers wouldn't work) by mind flayers to save them from a pissed off lich.

The lich had his lady brain eaten in life by them and became a necromancer when he figured out that undead scare the hell out of mindflayers. He would basically show up in orbit and rain armies of ghouls lead by wights onto them until the entire slave population was converted and the flayers were overrun.

The whole thing got flip turned upside down when the party actually talked to the guy. They had all chosen Helm as their god for the sake of party unity. Helm allows the creation of undead from willing dead.

So the Lich argued that the overwhelming majority of the slaves would chose undeath and revenge over slavery and eventual devouring. The lich told them that when his crusade was over he would order the undead to end themselves (you can order undead to do that in 2ed) if they so chose.

And that is how Malaki the Unflayable and our PCs ensured that our future Spell Jammer games had no Mindflayers (or Neoghi) but ghouls, ghouls errywhere. Entire spheres of them with fully developed civilizations.

>Today, I got an ultrasound of my child.
>So let's have a thread about illithids.

Behold I have planted my parasitic young in the belly of this woman. Now she will endure months of swelling and nausea until she finally ruptures; and my screaming spawn forces it's way out of her body through her genitalia!!!!!!!

>trusting le happy lich
Man your PCs are dumb.

Today, I traded in the coinage I had been saving for three years.

So let's have a thread about owlbears. They're cool. Any art or interesting fluff would be appreciated.

That was the exact reason, really. It looks like a humanoid tadpole, which made me think of illithids because I'm a dork.

The only real difference is which hole you put the tadpole in.

Could one ceremorph an owlbear?

Just curious, I am not a thrall to the glorious illithid master race.

He kept his side of it. Roughly 85% of the undead chose self termination. The ones that were left organized themselves on the principal of a sort of undead libertarianism.

Basically they hated the idea of enslavement (being mindflayer thralls then undead) that they organized their society so they only preyed on the non sentient or evil races. They don't really convert anyone since they eat them, although living members of their planets do chose to join them sometimes.Almost all of those become Wights. Also if they admire an enemy they will kill them then let them rise and chose joining them or permanent termination.

The Lich Malaki is in 'semi retirement' trying to find some sort of path to convert the ghouls into wights and make the wights less dependent on draining life force. He more or less is trying to create a race of immortals that anyone can join.

He used wishes to reinforce his orders of freedom on them so they can be turned or destroyed but they cannot be commanded.

Pros: Wants to create a universal libertarian paradise of free willed immortals.
Cons: Omniversal Undeath.

Can we name your child /op/?

Liches are Always Evil.

Brilliant plan putting him in control of the universe.

I'm not naming it Thoon.

The DM ruled that the the fact that he specifically worded his wishes to prevent him from controlling them changed his alignment from LE to LN with the approval/judgement of the gods. He isn't in charge of it, it is a more or less democratic and the undead have mixed feelings about him so while they will listen to him they do not want him be in charge or even run for office. Technically he could try to get elected to government but it would cause civil strife so he doesn't and he isn't interested in it anyway. Also the living on their worlds get to vote and although they are only about 10% of the population they each get 3 votes so they would tip the scales against any attempt by him to seize office. Everyone panders to the living out of genuine care and the fact that they are the only people in the entire realm who can break the rules Malaki created, including himself.

We brought up the question of how he could be Lawful Neutral having created such a chaotic civilization and the DM pointed out that he is the most Lawful person in the realm having created all the rules himself and having made sure that both himself and the society are literally incapable of breaking them. Only a few rules but the undead can't break them nor can Malaki. When even you are not above the rules and you are not a total twat: LN not LE.

Malaki by personality would almost be CN with goodish tendencies (if not for his revenge thing against the Mind Flayers and willingness to convert their slaves) but because he kept up his bargain with the PCs he literally trapped himself into being LN.

In theory he would be CN or even CG if he leaves the realm he created as an individual but the DM decided that his sense of responsibility towards his creation makes him a defacto ambassador for them so that is not an issue unless they decided to exile him.

Just plain stupid. The rituals to become a lich are so heinous they are elementally capital "E" Evil, but this one's a nice chap when you get to know him. I mean, what's a few raped babies between friends?

Exacpt that 2ed got rid of that and had a dozen types of Lich, not only allowing for liches of any alignment but a few that REQUIRED they be good aligned.

Hell they even started that in 1st ed, they were kinda important in Dragonlance which had NG elven liches.

There is like one kind of good lich, who must be an elf, and one neutral. Otherwise all your dry and bane and far liches are fucking evil. Please, enlighten me as to what kind of lich he was. If he's a plain ass lich, he's Always Evil.

Good necromancers is the worst meme.

>he's a nice guy because his genocides were justified
Radovan Karadžić? Is that you?

The Spectral Savant from Complete Psionics could be a good lich as the ritual to become one doesn't have to be evil in any specific way.

Although you still have to get around needing PP because you no longer generate it yourself but you could say your Spectral Savant is like a guardian or whatever and you pay him in letting him take some of your PP in exchange for something.

I just wanted to talk about illithids. Why the fighting?

>Good necromancers is the worst meme.
Hi Spoony

because the debate on undead magic regardless of what the edition or setting or GM have stated for a particular game

>Good necromancers is the worst meme
Nigger, I will fucking cut you.

>tfw DM tricks me into a relationship with a mindflayer

Never risking in-game relationships again.

From what the DM said he was a Archlich who started out in righteous vengeance mode, became LE while waging his war against the Flayers and choosing ever more ruthless tactics then started re-examining himself when he was winning and the party intervened.

Everyone he killed was psionically enslaved food and slaves. The players actually discussed the ethics of attacking the mindflayers slaves.

Since you want to bring up Le War crimes and Le Genocide: One of the players brought up the fact that escaped jews during WW2 had begged the allies to bomb the death camps. Yes prisoners would die BUT preventing them from operating would save more lives in the long run. Malaki argued that destroying the Mindflyers society even at the cost of their victims would save more lives in the long run and he was right.

In WW2 the only reason the allies didn't bomb the camps was that disrupting the German rail lines and defeating them was the most expediant way to save lives since most of the deaths had already happened. However what we faced was on a much larger scale, half a dozen spheres.

So yes there was genocide. However in this case the greater good WAS Genocide, specifically the (near) genocide of the Mindflayers and the Neoghi.

I stick by the parties decision, Ghoul Space may be disturbing and eventually very problematic in the long term but it is a far more desirable situation than having the likes of Mind Flayers and Neogi potentially running the universe.

And talking about non-alhoon necromancers at that

Pic related is a heavily armoured mindflayer, OC courtesy of a good ol' Veeky Forums drawthread

>it
Come on lads, he is already half way there.

You damn well know you are

Great book brought up by a great user.

Would they be Bards considering their necromancy relied on and was channeled through bells?

What else do you call a non-sapient being of unknown sex?

Mind flayer body tamers are awesome.

Alien DFC is the best

Guy who mentioned the undead vs Mindflayers campaign here. I read the OP and just mentioned my experience with Mindflyers.

I forgot that undead cause huge debates like crazy, amplified because in early editions Intelligent undead are Mindflayer Kryptonite since they are immune to almost anything a mindflayer can do.

Then i got into a DnD alignment/ethics debate about free willed undead vs mind controlled slaves. Well by the withered scrotal d20s of Gary Gygax's corpse i must carry on for the honor of my DM who i have not seen for over 20 years!

>regardless of what the edition or setting or GM have stated for a particular game

Amen to this.

Your literally worse than Stalin PCs do realize you can free thralls without exterminating them, right?

What do you think illithid clerics are like?

Imagine one with divine magic.

>(you)

They wouldn't fall into the standard DnD classes. Their necromancy utilizes Charter-bound music to perform wild magic, they use Charter Magic as well, and most of them are decent with a weapon.

It could be and was channeled through any form of music, even whistling.

Each specific note had a purpose, it's just the bells the best tools.

So yeah, a bard variable most likely.

Undead necromancer starting a race of undead... Sylvanas Windrunner is that you?

I mean... you don't have to stay the alignment you once were.

He can have done horrible, horrible things to become a lich, then had a change of heart several thousand years down the line. Plenty of time for self-reflection and soul searching. Nothing but time, really. All the time the universe has to offer.

dat boi

SO HOW ABOUT THOSE ILLITHILICHES.

Kekekekek

Yes, we were going to free them one by one in the middle of planetary battles numbering millions on each side. I'm sure you think the allies in WW2 should have resolved the conflict by intellectually debating each axis soldier one by one until all of them were convinced how wrong they were instead of resorting to violence as well right?

They did free thralls when they could, them and Malaki came up with a specific strategy for it. The PCs got broken up up into hit squads, the PCs would have a bag of bones and a squad of juju zombies. Whenever he could identify a group of flayers leading a major group of thralls he would teleport them in, the PCs would use the bag of bones to drown the flayers guards in skeletons ordered to just immobilize them then the ju ju zombies would scramble over the mess and slaughter the flayers. The PCs each had crawling claws clamped on their wrists and ankles with orders to immobilized them if they got mind controlled with a fifth instructed to clamp their mouths shut if they were mind controlled into trying to circumvent the undeads orders or cast spells.

This is where everyone being a follower of Helm (who is OK with commanding undead) came in handy. You can't command or turn a crawling claw but you can turn over control of it. So once Malaki gave them to the PCs he couldn't control them which is the only reason we allowed it. One of the clerics actually did a commune spell to see if Helm considered crawling claws 'intelligent' or 'unwilling'.

Helm (the DM) said no, although they have animal intelligence it is only an amplified version of the residual memory that lets skeletons use common place objects. Crawling claws are smarter than skeletons because they are mentally linked to their controller which both protects them from being turned and are imbued with a fraction of his/her intellect which is why there is a limit to how many you can control. We learned WAY too much about the things.

>Good necromancers is the worst meme
I am triggered

Pelor wills it!

it was about 25 years ago so probably not. At the time the 2ed option books had just came out and all the GM had were the necromancers handbook, the Richthofens guides and the historical campaign book for Rome. That last one was a bitch and worse than the flayers or Ghoul Space.

You think misguided Lich creates morally ambiguous space undead republic while committing justified genocide is bad?

That asshole put a Roman Empire into the Forgotten realms south east of waterdeep on the coast between the realms and the Arabs. Or more properly, the Empire of Kurtulmak. Before it was cool or before Veeky Forums (or Veeky Forums) existed he gave us Kobolds in Phalanxes.

>Every fuck door or corridor 4 feet tall and 2 feet wide
>Rooms 20 feet long, 10 feet wide. Ceiling 4 feet tall.
>Fucking room is filled with 40 Kobolds in a phalanx with banded mail, body shields, short sword and spears
>This isn't a fortress we are invading, we wandered into a small guard post next to the inn on the road

I thought that was a pretty clear premise, OP, that guy's just being a wad.

I didn't make the jump, but I know little of ithilids, and once explained to me I thought it perfectly fine.

might have helped to mention the connection, just to cue in know-nothings like me, or imperceptive grouches like user.

> ILLITHILICHES

Total pain in the ass.

Three kinds:

1: Psionic mind flayer lich who in life rebels against the Ithilid hivemind/god and becomes undead through psychic disciplines. Detailed in Von Richthofen guide to the lich. It also mentions that while undead are immune to mind control/telepathy/psionics those powers can be used to speak to the undead in question if it chooses.

2: Flayer who learns magic and becomes a lich the normal way. Also probably a rebel.

3: Flayer brought back as 'other' intelligent undead. While Flayer Wights or Ghouls might be scary, a Flayer Vampire is lovecraft tier horror. Worse case scenario: FlayerRevenant. Congratulations, you have a pissed off undead mindflayer version of Wolverine after you. Who the fuck did you piss opff to deserve that?

>illithid paladin of tyranny

The party thinks they can handle a solitary illithid?

Suddenly, Smite Good, Ilsensine wills it.

Could be hilarious.

I never could find the fluff about it what is Thoon?

Clerics of Bane. Given the nature of their god, their special abilities and the high WIS score of your typical high level cleric of Bane the high levels of their religion have nothing to fear from Mind Flayers.

Their religion is compatible with slavery and mind control, adopting Bane as a patron allows a Mind Flayer to avoid getting his soul devoured by his races hive mind when he dies.

Besides becoming undead or joining with demonic powers (or good powers, even more unlikely) Bane of a similar religion is the only long term option for a independently minded Mind Flayer.

While true, illithids do have conventional clerics of their specific god, who gives out divine magic.

No one knows. A group of mind flayers from the 3e Monster Manual 5 worship it, but the book deliberately never tells you what it is.

I really liked the later 3e monster manuals. Once the writers got the obligatory Demon/Devil/Dragon/Drow standard monsters out of the way, they wrote some really imaginative stuff.

Thoon is Thoon and Thoon is all.

Everything can be ceremorphed, if you're the DM and you will it.

Ive played an Illithid Psionic in a lv 10 evil campaign. Was the head of my local chapter of the esoteric order of dagon. Ah yes, invading the minds of the enemy and willing them to walk into fire was a great acheivement. Ive made many of enemy take their own lives.

Thoon has clerics. Since Thoon flayers have abilities that cost hit points, healers are pretty awesome offensively.

>illithid paladin of freedom
>freedom from THE SUN
>SMITE THE TYRANNICAL OVERLORD THAT FILLS THE SKIES WITH DEATH

All of which result in the Mindflayer Cleric being devoured by their races God.

If a mind flayer wants to have an independent existence as a a individual it must leave it's race and religion. Asking a mind flayer if it wants to be independent is like asking a Necromancer if he wants to be a Lich. The answer is always yes but they are worried that they will be attacked for becoming immortal.

...there's nothing in the requirements of Archlich that include being an elf, to my knowledge.

>Liches are Always Evil.
Only if you're a hack DM who does everything in the most generic and boring way possible.

*big guy joke*

how can you lich when you don't have bones?

is it just sentient toothbeaks?

Hey, all you assholes hold up right now!

Despite the fact that me and my friends have been having fun playing our DnD game for over 20 years we will invalidate our last two decades of fun because some troll on Veeky Forums can't understand the idea of a sympathetic Lich.

So please, tell me how to tell my gaming group of 20+ years to fuck off because you say there is no such thing as a Lich who isn't a total asshole?

Also, please tell me how you don't like our imaginary games and why we should instead make our imaginary games conform to your idea of what our games should be like.

Please tell me again, why don't you like my imaginary games and why i should make them more like yours?

Archlich is just a neutral or good lich, there are no requirements.

One, illithids obviously have endoskeletons and you are stupid.

Two, they look kind of like a dried octopus.

why did you include me in your rant when I was agreeing with you?

Makes me think you're just looking to bait now.

>Asking a mind flayer if it wants to be independent is like asking a Necromancer if he wants to be a Lich.
No. Mind flayers are generally content in their psychic police state until one realizes the elder brain won't actually make his mind immortal. Or until one's a freak, like a sorceror. Or just a normal rebel.

All of which are rare.

Technically, there ARE good liches. In several settings, in fact - both FR and Eberron come to mind. Don't mind the morons.

Most of these were agreeing with you, Summer. Learn2Read

Totally gonna make a Bane Death Knight now

.They have flesh and sort of bones. Mindflayar undead are kinda like a humanoid man sized octopus turned into leather then made undead. They do have something like skeletons but they are made of cartilage not bone. Mindflayers can be turned into zombies but not skeletons, their cartilage can't support the weigh of their bodies.

My childhood campaign went way too far into how various races would deal with undead and/or become them.

A mindflayer Demi lich would be just beak teeth and dangerous gems. It's phylactery/skull would probably be attached the the biggest damn kraken you ever saw and it would be hiding 6 miles underwater for 1000 years.

>every class but druid
Ithillid Savant could get around that restriction.