So Veeky Forums, memes aside what is your honest opinion on Katanas? Like them? Hate them? Don't mind them?

Katana's are really beautiful to look at. Historically they were last resort weapons. However, i have a child-like hardon for Japanese things and katanas and as such would love to either run a fedual Japanese or play as a samurai in D&D/Pathfinder. Never gotten to do it though.

I prefer Daos & Jians.

but katanas are a meme

I like their curved aesthetic. A softly curving blade is cool. I would like sabers, but the enclosed knuckle guards on them are nowhere near as stylish as the tsuba. Scimitars and daos are too fat.

In fact nearly everything about kenjutsu is unbelievably enchanting. The poses, the rigidity of the movements (I enjoy that it's not actually fluid, but typically a series of fixed motions), the ferocity of a full-swing overhead strike, the entire ensemble is cinematic as fuck.

why would you need katana in your setting when you can have sabre?

it's a tool like any other sword. designed with it's own specific uses in mind. not inherently superior or inferior to any other sword.

I like them, I think they look cool. They work as a nice side-arm, or work for being in a tight corridor or a room with a high ceiling.

But to take on multiple enemies at once or encased in armor? No thanks.

Also, watching Highlander as an adult, it's really weird seeing Connor go up against Kurgan with a short katana against a super huge broadsword.

in the debate of katana vesus boardsword versus knife versus stylish gunplay, it falls into the same debate as teleporting versus super speed versus having a vehicle.

Each one is going to have different themes and feels that I'd like for certain moments, characters, and concepts.

Now, being a bit of a weab, I tend to like the katana, but usually it needs to be in the hands of a Japanese character or there needs to be some in-character explanation for it (like the character being a weab themselves.)

The fact that they didn't have a good substitute for the Kurgan is also a big reason why the other movies are less fun to watch.

While nowhere near as amazing as the weebs would have you think, they were fantastic blades when it came to cutting lightly or unarmored opponents, even better than the longsword at such a task as most curved blades are. I think they're great if used in a practical and historical manner and not up scaled into Sacred Blacksmith levels of bullshit.

If it's some fantasy setting where everyone wields enchanted or legendary weapons, then I really don't mind if they go a little wacky.

Well, that and the fact none of them are as well-written or well-acted.

Weirdly enough, it's actually harder to find unedited versions of Highlander II. Most versions are those Renegade Editions which cut out all the Zeist shit.

Tbh the original movie was originally supposed to be all there was, right? And Connor vs Kurgan were the last two Immortals in existence and when Connor won the prize was mortality and the ability to have a family or something

I dig the whole iaido thing, drawing and sheathing seems more aesthetic than other sword styles

Well, the Zeist shit is kinda dumb. It's still dumb with the Renegade edition.

Yeah, the first movie is written in a such a way that non of the sequels makes sense or they are insulting.

A man of taste, I see.

Spears always did the most damage in melee. Any actual professional soldier will prefer to use the weapon that keeps his enemy as far away as possible, so if you had your choice it was always either the spear or the bow or something similar to those two. The reason the sword became so iconic is just because it was the most common backup weapon.

Well, there are doppelsöldners who were professional and used swords... although their swords were long enough to be considered short polearms easily.

I don't mind them if they have a place in a given setting.

>I don't mind them if the "canu cut through Steelu" and "Folded ovel hundled times" shit stays out.

Also, this.

wasn't the last movie post apocalyptic?

There are some things people need to realize about samurai and katanas
Samurai are predominantly horse archers, if they are using their katanas there is already a failure in their preferred tactics.
The japanese of the time had a weird religious fixations. Believing the katana was related to a warrior's soul and it's a sacred construct prevents technological advancement of the item to prevent the desecration of it in a spiritual sense. Technological stagnation is never good. There's a reason European sword designs kept altering. To make them better. Another retarded spiritual significance to the Japanese made the use of a shield taboo meanwhile nearly every other culture in history has used shields.
Now the katana was designed to be wielded on horseback against illiterate Japanese serfs that weren't good enough to waste an arrow on.
It's disadvantages because of this results in it being ineffective against armor, ineffective at close combat, ineffective in formations. The Japanese didn't fight that way partly because of their 'sacred' swords.
>tl;dr Japanese allowed religion and spirituality to influence how to fight resulting in self-inflicted handicaps. The katana is okay in several areas but excellent at nothing in particular making it a terrible sword for large scale organized combat.

I think for storytelling it's a two sided coin. In one instance katanas are down a peg in usefulness while on the other side they have the coolest lore

I agree with this individual.

You reek of reddit
>stagnation is never good!
>Japan was stupid for believing in religion! *tips fedora*
Your post is filled with historical inaccuracies and just plain biased opinions. Fuck off.

They're just swords

Literally just swords

There's nothing special about them. They're just another fucking sword, same as any other

They aren't particularly good. They aren't particularly bad. They just are

I like their aesthetic, if it fits the setting and person carrying it in a game has a reason to then sure thing.

I know nothing about the actual swords themselves or any terminology. But I like the soft curve the blades have, in my ideal fantasies, Katanas are used in a manner similar to Kendo fighters, with two hands upon the blade and a lot of vertical strikes.

They're shortish backswords with long hilts and underdeveloped pommels. They've also got brittle edges and less ductile blades, although they'll take a slightly sharper edge than Western equivalents.

All in all, the katana is a less developed design than the Medieval longsword, but it will still kill you just as dead.

>underdeveloped pommels
Sorry, underdeveloped crossguards. They've got no pommel, hence the long hilt.

By the Sengoku period, samurai were no longer primarily horse archers. Your post is riddled with historical inaccuracies

That's actually how they were used in formal duels. The one-handed method was something that was highly discouraged and a two-handed dual wielding style of the kodachi and katana was only really thought up by Musashi.

>You reek of reddit
I don't use reddit
>historical inaccuracies
citation needed
>biased opinions
that is impossible for anyone to eliminate from any argument thinking human nature can provide unbiased opinions is incredibly naive.
>Fuck off
Opinion was asked of me, I provided. However I did not ask for an Asperger's opinion of my opinion in return. Sit down and take your inhaler.

I don't care in general, they're a fancy looking sword and I like swords.

That being said, people who use katanas and like katanas are giant fags about it, and that perverts my whole opinion on them. They're the sigil of the faggot, and despite my personal preferences, I'd rather not associate with people who like them.

>citation needed
As said before by another user, samurai stopped using horses in large scale combat after Warring States period. The samurai most people remember is of the Edo Period, ironically AFTER the Sengoku Jidai. If you want to know more, you can read all about it on the numberous books on the history of Japan and samurai as a whole. Take from someone who has a degree in Japanese history and has been studying it for the majority of their life, you are wrong when you say that samurai primarily fought on horseback.
> incredibly naive.
It is the goal of academic thought to eliminate as much subjective thought as possible and try to think objectively.

Katanas are pretty, unfortunately sword like objects have really damaged the perception of all swords.

I still prefer european swords myself, but I will say if you ever get to handle a katana take a close look at the hamon(where the metal transitions from hard to soft), they are very interesting.

They also were used more for breaking pikes than against other soldiers. Its hard to use them in tight formation (though half-swording helps). That's what sidearms were for.

>Sengoku period
>no longer primarily horse archers
No shit they had blackpowder weapons then.

The popular idea of the samurai comes from the Edo and Sengoku periods so trying to compare a Heian samurai to a Sengoku samurai is futile.

It's...a sword? It's a sword made in the Japanese style, ideally by actual Japanese.

True. By then, they used handguns.

Which mean that you can't unscrew the (non-existant) pommel and end your opponent rightly.

>has a degree in Japanese history
No I don't think you do. You display yourself like a anime buff or a cosplayer enthusiast.

Believe whatever you want to believe. Nothing I can do to stop you.

I've watched documentaries on bladed weaponry for the sake of my players. I have to say, the katana has it's uses. I think they're given a bad wrap for all the memes that surround them, but so long as they're used in solo combat against an unarmored opponent, a katana is a decent weapon.

Though if I were to pick, outside of that circumstance, there is always a better tool for the job. Katanas aren't really a 'god weapon', infact, they're kind of useless if you ever fight anyone who isn't willing to go solo AND unarmored. Once you reached the medieval era where people would use shit like full knight suits, if someone ran at me with a katana I'd laugh my ass off.

That all said, I think the Katana is one of the more iconic weapons in history. Due to the memes, the lore, and the overall 'appreciation' for the blade, many people will know what a Katana is when they mention it. If I ask them what a Rondel Dagger is, they might just shrug at me. surprised such a thing exists. As a result, I don't blame you for liking them. It's like liking Superman. Sure he's not perfect, but he's so iconic it's not wrong to enjoy him.

>and a two-handed dual wielding style of the kodachi and katana was only really thought up by Musashi.
Even then it was only really a practice style, because Musashi believed a good warrior needs to know how to kill with either hand and be skilled in various weapons. According to him, sticking to one sword stifles people and makes them predictable, and therefore easy to kill.
Thus, a training style that forces you to use both hands and two different weapons.

I hate the memetana, but there's nothing wrong with the sword design itself. I think it would be nothing more or less than a two-handed saber if historical models were made of good metal.

That's honestly the kicker, from an historical perspective. The swords were astonishingly well-made for what they were. But ultimately what they were were heterogeneous swords made of one kind of pig-iron and another kind of pig-iron that resulted in something that did the job fine for what it was; but could not compare to other swords of the European medieval high and late eras.

The design doesn't really have anything wrong with it. In fact, the geometry is quite nice for a multi-purpose weapon that has more emphasis on the cut than the thrust. But the katana that everyone knows is made of shit iron, and unfortunately it's evolved into a meme that's difficult to avoid from the ignorant.

out sheer wonder how can a katana be improved to be comparable to an longsword?

>inb4 folditmore

And bows, and spears, and katanas

They were one part of a combined arms machine

>Spears always did the most damage in melee.
We're talking about Japan. They got statistic that clearly demonstrate that like 90% of all registered kills were due to arrows and spears only ever killed like three people.

It's pretty hilarious, really. Though they generally believed that you were pretty much dead if a spear gets you while everything else is painful but survivable.

A doppelsöldner was a lot of things, starting with somebody who brought along his own gear, somebody who could claim veteran status and somebody who'd take dangerous duty, be that in the frontlines or by protecting the banner... sometimes they used twohanders.

They're a fucking sword and 99% of elfgames don't need to get more granular than that.

Don't make it out of shit metal, probably straighten the design out a tad.

>Katanas aren't really a 'god weapon', infact, they're kind of useless if you ever fight anyone who isn't willing to go solo AND unarmored.

Eh, it's not like a whole slew of after-battle reports mention friends or servants playing a pivotal role and it's not like flipping the armour's skirt is constantly mentioned as the usual way of fatally stabbing somebody into his belly.

>shit metal maymay

I'm pretty certain that they didn't care, seeing how it allowed them to produce their own metal rather than depend on court imported iron or steel.

It's like how all of ya would just as gladly pump your car with fracking oil-derived fuel.

It would have to be a lot longer.

Katanas are shorter than one handed sabres and some even approach gladius length.

They're a cool looking sword, I think the slashing focused fighting style is pretty neat. They're a bit brittle. They're not good for much other than honorabru duels and cutting down peasants, but that can be cool in its own right.

I really want to travel back in time as a disembodied observer and see the art used in live combat. One thing is to imagine it, another is to see it embodied by a person who has devoted time to practice in it.

Lol, by the time the katana was actually introduced the samurai were fighting on foot with spears and later guns.

The tachi was the weapon of a horse archer.

>There's a reason European sword designs kept altering

Katanas were side arms, the main killing was done by bow, gun, spear, helebard, grenade.
They did not need to be that long.
The metal was fine after working with it.
And the curving was intentional. It got more as time went by. Japanese swords started straight.
Longer versions existed, those were held with both hands, compared to the bastard Katana.
The gladius leigth ones are not called Katana, tho.

It's amazing how little of this post is factually correct at all.

I'm a fan of how they look, and I'm a big fan of the samurai aesthetic. I've watched one too many Kurosawa films I guess. But a katana is just a sword, intended to be used in a particular way. It's fine at that, great even. It isn't shit, it isn't a wonder weapon, it's just a sword.

>Lol, by the time the katana was actually introduced the samurai were fighting on foot with spears and later guns.

Guns AND Samurai fighting as infantry? During the 1100s? Your grasp on basic world history seems tenuous.

Katanas are the best weapons you can use against enemies in clothes/light armor. That said, using a katana against an opponent in heavy armor is like trying to punch a hole in your own head.

>Katanas are the best weapons you can use against enemies in clothes/light armor.

People who had to actually deal with fabric armour apparently disagree.

I only like them in games set in/based on Japan during time periods where their use makes sense or in Cyberpunk.

>katana with a modified blade
I fail to see your point. They had different materials and an entirely different forging process. The point is the blade geometry is pretty darn close to a katana.

I like them a lot. I like to think I'm under no illusions about what they're capable of and my PCs always tend to have one, even if it's just something on a wall in their home.

Completely fine weapon, ruined by horrible fan base.

Katanas are cool, imo. I don't even mind some degree of nonsense to make them cleave (ba dum tish) closer to the whole 'iajutsu dex weapon perfect cut' thing so long as other swords get some comparable bonus?

are you trying to bait me here? This one's about 2.5 times as broad as a Katana.

They're amazing slashing weapons. No argument. They are elegantly and beautifully designed. Seeing a centuries-old true-forged katana at a museum makes me moist.

How does a katana work in terms of a character using it?

I don't particularly mind them.
Until my one of my players start calling them this, and another one designs a Samurai class and gives them a Save or Die capstone on crits, and then gives one archetype a free +3 weapon and 17-20 crit range.

It's bullshit Ryan, and you fucking know it.

Exactly like a bastard sword with longsword stats.

The point is that it costs 2 dollars a gallon not 10

I have nothing against katanas or wakizashi them but I'm not a huge fan of trying to work them into 3.PF and 5 beyond reskinning the longsword and the scimitar. Things like blade sharpness or durability aren't modeled precisely enough to make it possible to create useful mechanics for it.

I did once threaten a player with a katana mechanic, though. I proclaimed if he wouldn't just take a reskinned longsword than we'd make it a 1d8 with the mechanic that it autoconfirmed 4x crits but was instantly, permanently, magically ruined on a botch, attack that hit but dealt no damage, or any sunder damage. He went with the reskinned longsword. Can't say I blame him, that was a terrible weapon.

Also, I don't miss 3.PF

I personally prefer Falchions, Scimitars and Messers, though Katanas are fine as long as they're not out of place and aren't the ultimate be-all end-all sword that cuts through anything.

the fedora of katanas, just gotta tryhard even with weeaboo swords huh

Nigga, jian literally means "sword". It's as generic as it comes without using the world "blade"

Dao is similar. I means "Blade". Nothing special name-wise.

My Chinese nigga.

Sabre not two handed

This reminds me that in Hero someone brings up that the Chinese had like 22 different ways to write sword.

The Roman's had a term for cultures that had swords designed for cutting instead of thrusting.
Faggots

They're heavier versions of the saber with poorer balance and worse hilts/crossguards

They're neat in style, and make sense from a historical perspective of an iron poor country, but I don't think they're the best sword for the purpose of swording, i.e. killing and maiming my fellow man.

My game is set in Kyoto. They show up. They're nothing special.

Why the fuck are you using a two handed sword then that does jack shit against armor? The thing about Katanas is that their design was always pretty shitty, and primarily worked because Japan was a xenophobic no fly zone nobody wanted to bother invading. If you want to kill lightly armed peasant fodder, you use a rapier or sabre for greater reach and finesse, or alternatively a zweihander to crush clean through their blocks.

Because not everyone wears fucking plate armor, or maybe there is no plate armor in your setting, maybe because it's before the renaissance which means every sword is shit against armor anyway.

>I would like sabers, but the enclosed knuckle guards on them are nowhere near as stylish as the tsuba
You might like Vietnamese swords then.

Knuckle bow sabers with Asian stylings.

If I wanted a curved sword, I'd wield a goddamned cutlass.

I'm more a Khopesh man myself, but fighting styles aside, as long as the sword can cut a person well enough to draw blood in a single swing on an unarmored area then it's fine. Otherwise it's just a shitty sword and should either be smelted into something usable or scrapped into Tetanus Bolts.