Warhammer 40k general

>Erebus and Kor Phaeron say that Abaddon is faithless and sees himself equal to the gods. That's why they want to replace him.
>Kharn thinks the same of Abaddon and that's why he will never directly serve him

>Abaddon
>faithless

Are they being dumb? The guy is the chosen of the Four powers. He is far from being faithless. And why presumptuous of them to think they know better than their own gods in the selection of their undivided champion

do those veterans benefits replace the bonuses from the marks of chaos or do they supplement them?

You can get away with just taking a captain with the shield eternal/thunder hammer/ artificer armor and probably end up with a better captain than him. That coup de grace thing is a little unreliable with only 1 attack to do it with.

Also Librarians are always good and Tigirius is the best one in the vanilla codex to take but you have to go ultramarines for chapter tactics. He's ML 3 with the ability to reroll psychic powers and reroll failed tests plus comes with one of the better SM warlord traits. Also lets you reroll reserves too if you have those so taking him is never a bad idea.

is the original template a word doc? I had the same problem and watched some tutorials on how to do them correctly.

Are you using section breaks?

They're not wrong though. Abby's in this for himself and wants to go cold turkey on Chaos the moment he wins so he can rule over humanity as the New God Emperor of Mankind. If he does for them he can't as there wouldn't be anything for him to rule over.

Well Erebus and KP kinda already outsmarted Lorgar and Horus during the heresy, didn't they? I could see them being arrogant and using the faithlessness as a fancy excuse.

Kharne is named The Betrayer, I think it's fitting he doesn't work under anybody important to fluff.

Supplement, as of now. I figured that, rather than completely re-price a lot of the overcosted units (like Chosen and Terminators) I'd simply give them advantages to merit their current costs.

It's also important to remember that a lot of powerful build can be created with this, but they are often neutered by being forced down a specific path - you can get some ridiculously high Invulnerable Saves by running a Scourge army, but that's at the expense of a lot of other units in the codex that are also really good, for example.

I'm thinking about joining the fandex club with an updated Sisters of Battle codex and maybe another for Grey Knights to make them a bit less of a one-trick pony. I've got a pretty firm idea of what to do with the armies, but I'd like some suggestions on the actual codex production side of things. Are there any formatting/writing issues that you came across that you'd do differently if you could go back and start again? Or is it really just as simple as "copy and paste codex, insert changes, enjoy life in tier 2?"

Giving chaos champions and terminators an additional wound will piss off a lot of space marine players if they don't get the same thing.

i like the squadron changes on all the predators, vindicators, maulerfiends and forgefiends.

Likewise some of these updates are long overdue, (The helbrute getting 4 attacks for instance)

why ditch plasma on Oblitorators?

all that other stuff is way more powerful than plasma.

Nah, it needs to be an Arbites Repressor.

Hey, they have other things in their favor.

It does completely fit the fluff of the two units though - you have to be a real mean son of a bitch to be a Chosen or Terminator Champion, given the nature of just getting to that position in the first place.

>why ditch plasma on Oblitorators?

Because they get the Ectoplasma equivalents instead, which is actually better (just not for sustained fire). It also seemed a little TOO cheesy to be able to use Plasma Cannon - Ectoplasma - Rinse, Lather, Repeat.

I think you might have a few too many picks from chapter tactics special rules and that a few of them might be OP, especially if they stack with the other stuff you gave them.

When you playtest it ask the other players if a particular boon or rule seems unfair, try to keep the more outrageous buffs to a minimum.

thats it. I only skimmed it, but all in all it looks very good for a fandex.

Hey, maybe you should talk to Space Odin when he is online or see if you can find his contact info in his codex. Maybe you could collaborate working on the formatting and editing of his dex, since its a bit lackluster.

>Are there any formatting/writing issues that you came across that you'd do differently if you could go back and start again?

Plan it ahead of time lol. That would be a big one - I re-arranged and re-made this at least 12 times over the course of making it. Also, deciding how I wanted to "theme" it from the get-go - most of the Word Art and art work was added about halfway through, which was a formatting BITCH.

>Or is it really just as simple as "copy and paste codex, insert changes, enjoy life in tier 2?"

Eh, I wouldn't say that. You have to have a pretty in-depth understand of the flaws and strengths of the Codex in question, but you can always just directly copy it and address fixes directly.

What I wrote isn't a full-fledged Codex, but a codex "update"/supplement to C:CSM. It's designed to be used side-by-side with the "real" one. If you want to completely re-make the codex on your own, it'll take a lot more effort than just writing out a "unit changes" subsection. and it'll look a lot better for it, so if you want to do it more power to you. Sisters need it.

Shitty fandex wank.

>a few of them might be OP, especially if they stack with the other stuff you gave them.

Oh that's entirely possible. It's still very much a WIP, and I've been trying to playtest it as often as I can.

I want this to be strong, but not too strong. "Above-Average army that can play fluffy lists semi-competitively" is what I want to shoot for here.

Any that stick out at you off the top of your head?

...but why tho

I see you've added quite a bit to this since I last saw it.
I have a few questions though.
How come legionnaire champions don't get 2W as well?
Also maybe change the name of the ectoplasma special rule to overcharge, as currently it'd be a bit of a mouthful to spout off in the middle of the game ("I shoot my ectoplasm pistol on ectoplasma mode" vs. "I shoot my ectoplasm pistol on overcharge mode")
Perhaps ectoplasm cannons gaining large blast instead of rending and soul blaze since its already ap2 and soul blaze is useless.
Change daemonic possession to only be able to eat infantry units, perhaps even to only units with a single wound (dreadclaw eating a dreadnought is retarded and stupid, eating your kitted out chaos lord is a very annoying possibility)

Otherwise I like it a lot, good work user.

What unit would you add to the Ork codex to make it better?

How about to the CSM dex?

Can anyone suggest flexible but shapeholding wires ideal for conversions? I want to put together a couple of Dark Mechanicum test models counts as imperial guard (maybe) and this would include a massive amount of wires perferating hapless and unwilling 'servitors' what wires would you say are best for this?

>How come legionnaire champions don't get 2W as well?

Well, I view Legionaries as being the "middle ground" between Chosen and regular Marines. They're intended to be more powerful than Marines, but not as good as Chosen. That, combined with one less Special Weapon and one less Attack, was my way of sort of "balancing" them in that direction - they're solid line-holding troops and can pack three Special OR Heavy Weapons in a 10-man squad, but they're not quite as raw-skilled and good at pure murder as Chosen are.

>Also maybe change the name of the ectoplasma special rule to overcharge, as currently it'd be a bit of a mouthful to spout off in the middle of the game

Maybe. I chose "Ectoplasma" because it is very Chaos-flavored and already fits in with the Ectoplasma Cannon that already exists. It is a bit clunky, though.

>Perhaps ectoplasm cannons gaining large blast instead of rending and soul blaze

Damn, that's a way better idea. Already changed.

>Change daemonic possession to only be able to eat infantry units, perhaps even to only units with a single wound

That's a good point. Maybe having Daemonic Possession only remove a single Wound from a random model in the unit would be more streamlined approach? That way multi-wound models aren't eaten, but there's still a bit of a "risk" involved for them (it's just no longer life-threatening).

Thanks man. I've been busy playtesting and trying to brainstorm new ideas for it.

How happy are you with the formatting as it is now? Do you have any ideas that you wish you'd had earlier but now you're in too deep, or do you consider this more or less ideal?

Also, this was made in Word? Mind posting a screenshot of a page so I can get a better idea of how you formatted it?

>You have to have a pretty in-depth understand of the flaws and strengths of the Codex in question, but you can always just directly copy it and address fixes directly.
I've already got a pretty good idea of the changes I'll be making. Mostly it's just moving stuff around so there's actual decision making involved (for example, a TL Multi-Melta on a Relentless platform is better than a TL Heavy Bolter in almost every possible situation. Likewise, Exorcists are strictly superior to Penitent Engines. It's pointless to present a choice only one option), and a bit of it is just adding in some synergy that's lacking (for example, Repentia are literally useless without an Assault Transport and Celestians don't really have a clear role).

I could probably do everything I want to in a half-page changelist, but I'd prefer to make something a bit more, I don't know, cohesive?

CSM don't need an addition. They need an identity.

Are they 10000 year old legions?
Are they daemonic warbands?
Are they non-chaos renegades with mixed forces and unorthodox tactics/wargear?
Are they just spikey space marines?
Are they more choppy space marines?

currently they try to do all of these, but fail at all of them. Funnily enough, the various flavors of loyalist SM can do all of these, only better than CSM.

>Want legions? SM
>Want special weapons and stuff? SM or DA
>Want choppy? SW or BA
>Want daemons? SW have the wulfen which are pretty much daemons
>Want mixed lists? Take AM or Inquisitorial allies

Have you tried reading ?

What they need is a complete overhaul

>Entire book just for Legions. Can borrow heavily from the HH range. New special rules, plastic HQs and troops/conversion kits for all legions.

>Renegade minidex that is basically a supplement for the vanilla SM codex

the things that excite me most about CSM as renegades are the things that regular SM wouldn't ever do. Things like suicide squads of terminators, deep striking single oblits, strapping a havoc launcher, extra combibolter, AND a combiflamer all at once to a rhino, etc. I wish they had more unique and unorthodox stuff personally.

I raw earlier versions but I can give this one a read

I like the idea behind a lot of this, adding shit to CSM to make them more than just "Evil Space Marines minus options". Anything that gives an army more options to play with is always good in my book.

That Being said, why not just change the ectoplasma cannon range to just be 36? You basically made a custom-mega kannon for CSM with 1 extra shot and a possibly worse drawback.

The special ammo rules I like but you could probably remove the Gets Hot! part from the toxin rounds cause as is I wouldn't consider it when 1 ammo type retards armor saves and the other gives rending without the Gets Hot! so why would I take this?

The Culverin weapon type you made looks like it would be way to easy to snowball out of control if someone gets unusually lucky, maybe tone it down to just once ala only 1 reroll and bump up the number of attacks to 6 base to help.

That one khorne warlord trait that gives "deny the witch" on 2+, maybe +1 deny for the warlord and his detachment?

There's a bunch more, but I think the one thing that might hurt this is the lack of metrics. It'll be hard to tell what might be good, bad, and downright broken without people playing with it and sending the results back for some fine tuning.

I'm pretty overall satisfied with formatting as of this point. I wish I'd had a better idea of formatting walking into it, but I'm pretty okay with the aesthetics now.

I made it in Word, and it really was extremely simple. Word Art for the headers, regular old text for the paragraphs, with various Text Boxes where required. The new Word is actually pretty intuitive and has tons of pre-styled things that can be very, very easily plopped down when and where you want them.

Ultimately, I'd say go for it. People are always a lot more willing to give a chance to something that is more visually appealing, and making it feel like a "real" Codex would go a long way for that.

Make the weapons upgrades cheaper for Elite units (see Vanguard vets in codex Space Marines) and you'll really have something.

What if we opened the entire loyalist armory to CSM, in addition to their daemon stuff? Is just the loss of chapter tactics and ATSKNF enough to make up for the extra options or would there have to be additional penalties? Also, let's just all agree to sidestep the issue of Graviton weaponry by using HH Grav rules.

Give the night Raptors 2 attacks base bro. They're basically just jump Zerks with more expensive upgrades.

I recommend it, this one has been WAY improved compared to older versions.

It actually gives special rules for Chaos Legions (Free VotLW, new Troops unit, army-wide Stubborn) and Chaos Renegades (free Hatred (SM), Elites unit, and Allies of Convenience with Armies of the Imperium) as different army styles, along with all sorts of new shit.

So why should they get all the non-daemon stuff and also get the daemon stuff?

feels like a lot of details and without much difference aside from buffs in the form of super powered tactics and a few spot buffs

What if chosen had relentless? that alone would be awesome on them, even better if you could also give them jump packs. What I've always like about Chosen is how they come standard with a bolter AND close combat weapon AND bolt pistol, and relentless would only bolster their flexibility. Loyalists get elite jump units, as well as relentless jump units, but a unit with BOTH would be a lot of fun.

I'd also like to see Chaos Lords have way more wargear available to them. If you were the biggest badass in the sector, wanted in a dozen systems, who would stop you from taking first pick at whatever loot? If I wanted to put an autocannon on my Lord I should be able to, even though that would be a questionable choice.

I'd like to have some kind of troop choice in between Chaos Space Marines and Cultists. Something in the 8-11 point per model range. Maybe this could be achieved through upgrade and weapon options for cultists (you can sort of do this by giving your cultists Mark of Nurgle and an autogun, but this is not really points efficient at all, unlike the troops who naturally fall within that points range)

Because all the non-daemon stuff is gimped by missing chapter tactics and ATSKNF? And maybe an Ld penalty as well because they're clearly weak of will? What units would you consider too good to allow CSM to take?

>to just be 36?

Well, it's 24" in the regular Codex. It's the Chaos version of the Plasma Cannon that it replaces, and I've already revised it to be what suggested. 36" is a major buff to a weapon that is, at least at this point, already better than its Loyalist counterpart.

>you could probably remove the Gets Hot!

I've been kinda on the fence about that myself this whole time. I just didn't want somebody to be able to spew out Blasts with little consequence, so I figured Gets Hot! would curtail spamming them in ridiculous amounts. When you put it that way, however, it DOES seem a little not worth taking...

>looks like it would be way to easy to snowball out of control if someone gets unusually lucky

Well, it's literally Chaos-interpretations of the old HH Volkite weapons. They lose one Strength compared to "real" Volkite, but gain a small bit of range and can generate multiple hits instead of only one round of new hits. I did notice that for whatever reason I left it as S6 - it should be S5, to keep with the trend.

These weapons are also pretty difficult to spam - the only place you'll find them is on Helbrutes, Obliterators, and Iron Warriors Havocs. That should help keep their use manageable.

>It'll be hard to tell what might be good, bad, and downright broken without people playing with it and sending the results back for some fine tuning.

That's what I've been working on constantly. Hell, y'all are more than welcome to playtest this stuff yourself if y'all'd like yes, y'all'd is a legitimate contraction
.

grav cannons are too good for CSM

they are too good for SM too

grav should go away and stay away

the game didn't need it

Yeah, I covered that bit: >Also, let's just all agree to sidestep the issue of Graviton weaponry by using HH Grav rules.

>want to work on writefaggotry but needs sleep
>mfw
I'll be more bright eyed in the morning anyway. Any music you gits mind recommending some music for me to listen to while writing it? Here's what I was listening to maximalismmusic.com/track/lament-exe youtube.com/watch?v=mk2SNcpTNbs

How can Space Marines kill Riptides?
Command squad bikes with gravguns + stormshields?

Grav-cents, Grav bikers that you mentioned, drop-pod sternguard with combi-grav +grav-guns. The pattern here is that grav is the answer and you need more of it. I would recommend plasma too, but grav guns have kinda taken that spot of MEQ TEQ killer instead these days.

youtube.com/watch?v=mDZekM13dkw

grav spam
plasma spam
op psychic bullshit
overwatch denial assaults with that one formation
some source of instant death (biker librarian with a force axe?)

if you alpha strike the riptide the tau fag will most likely concede

It's not a matter of whether a unit is good or not. Why should CSM straight up have 100 vanilla units and then 20 more daemon ones while vanilla is stuck with 100 units?

The Neotokyo OST is a favorite of mine when writing/paining/building. It's definitely a weird mix but worth a listen for sure.

>youtube.com/watch?v=408tWOubRDM

The Unreal OST is in a similar vein but a tad more videogame-y. It can still set a mood fairly well though.

>youtube.com/watch?v=9IISjIMpepo

>CSM shouldn't be allowed drop pods or different kinds of land raiders because they have mutilators and dinobots

Don't forget those super-OP warp talons. Or the fact that since chaos techmarines can give a vehicle within 18" gets hot, they don't deserve jump packs, bikes, terminator armor, or melee weapons besides power axes and relics.

They shouldn't, in the Abaddon series is mentioned that maintain shit is extremely difficult to most chaos warbands, and then you have their shit that gets possesed and it's basically fucked, their drop pods will most likely eat the troops it carried.

what about a chimera? it might not be their favored transport, but it is surely easier to loot or salvage a chimera than maintain a 10000 year old rhino

>They shouldn't
No

The idea is that by not taking VotLW (which could be made to be actually useful), you're indicating that it was a chapter that just recently turned traitor and everything hasn't broken down yet.

CSM needs chapter tactics. 10, 9 for each of the legions and 1 for general renegades. Each legion gets special rules suited for them with limits and buffs, as well as changes in FOC, such as making cult units Troops, etc. Renegades get ATSKNF and could count as SM on the allied chart. Alternatively they could make a Codex Supplement: Renegades for the SM codex that lets you make a limited SM army that counts as CSM on the allied chart.

even if stuff has broken down, I would expect more options like multilasers, heavy stubbers, chimeras, shotguns, etc

basically anything they could easily steal, salvage, or make themselves

>any chaos terminator being able to trade their combibolter for a heavy stubber would be pretty neat

>Alternatively they could make a Codex Supplement: Renegades for the SM codex that lets you make a limited SM army that counts as CSM on the allied chart.
why would I do this when I could have an unlimited SM army with a better allies chart

and it still misses what make CSM interesting; they should not just be spikey space marines, they should play differently

>Allow CSM to take SM as allies of convenience to represent non-chaos renegades or recent traitors
>C:CSM is just for 10,000 year old edgelords/badasses with mutations and daemon shit everywhere
Too confusing?

>if you alpha strike the riptide the tau fag will most likely concede

Why? It's a distraction carnifex with a jetpack.

Hey,

I haven't read any news since a year or so.

I have a small tyranid army which waits to be painted (1 start collecting box, 1 carnifex, 20 termagants and like 5 ripper swarms)

Are tyranids still shit? Is CSM still shit? Tau OP?

What interesting release is coming?

Are eldar corsairs more cheesy than craft world eldar?

>Are tyranids still shit? Is CSM still shit? Tau OP?
Yes, yes, yes
>What interesting release is coming?
None

No

Renegade chapters are hunted down and worn down by the imperial forces every time, lamenters and the other loyal chapters lost a lot of shit during the badabb war and haven't recovered since then, the minotaurs captured many terminator armours and relics from those chapters during the conflict.

Huron lost most of the shit he had when the astral claws had to flee from the imperial retribution.

>GW knowing shit of his own setting
Those are or will be probably changed to dread claws anyways so it doesn't matters.

Yes, yes and yes.
Tyranids still have fuck all invulnerable saves as AP2 and ignores cover becomes more plentiful.
Chaos marines are still just shittyloyalists with overpriced, shoddy equipment that malfunction at the drop of a hat.
Tau still blow people off the table with high strength, ignores cover, ap2 shooting attacks.

In other news gene stealer cults got plastic models and rules. They are also widely rumoured to be getting a codex soon.

hey fuckers, rate my 750 list

o Chaos Lord (145pts)
Axe of Blind Fury, Bolt Pistol, Daemonheart, Mark of Khorne, Melta bombs
o 5x Chaos Marine (90pts) with Boltgun, one with Meltagun & Aspiring Champion with Melta Bombs
o8x Berzerkers (209pts) Bolt Pistols, Close Combat Weapons & Berzerker Champion

o Cult of Slaughter formation (306pts)
•19x Cultists with Close Combat Weapons, Autopistols, 2x Flamer, & Cultist Champion with Shotgun
•16x Cultists with Autogun& Cultist Champion with Shotgun
•Dark Apostle

Only one relic per miniature man.

Here's my wishlist/first draft. I've got some more stuff to add, then I'll make it readable, then compile it into codex/supplement form. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

>*>*>*>*I know I broke a lot of shit with this, this is by no means comprehensive or complete. Please don't shit all over it until it's in a more balanced state. But if you see any strange synergies here that make things obviously more powerful than intended, please point them out.

The Galaxy is a big place. Badab was a particularly big deal because of its location and the number of chapters working with the Astral Claws. It makes sense that the Imperium was keeping a close eye on it and unwilling to tolerate anything but complete conformity.

What's the fastest army right now?
And if it's dark eldar how good are they?

Eldar/DEldar.
DEldar are one of the worst factions, Eldar are the best by a large margin and rude to play against anyone but Tau, Space Marines, or Necrons.

Corsairs.

Eldar stole many things from the deldars and never looked back, while the deldar lay bleeding in the ground with most of their good shit taken away.

I like how morons say the Riptide is just a meatshield or a distraction when it has S7-8 AP2 multi-shot/large blast weapons.

what are you talking about? i can not take AoBF and deamonheart in the same lord?

>The Galaxy is a big place.

Whenever someone says this they have already lost the argument and are just showing what a dumb faggot they are.

>female space marines
>THE GALAXY IS A BIG PLACE HURRR
>the emperor is actually a skdlflakwjlhkjeltkaf
>THE GALAXY IS A BIG PLACE HURRR

Slaanesh daemons.
A pure melee army with fleet and a 3" bonus to run moves means they will travel very far, very fast.

New warlord traits led to my herald on a seeker pulling of a 31" charge once.

Not anymore, sorry .

It's canon that whatever can happen, will happen (somewhere)
It's canon that female space marines *can't* happen
It's also canon that there's only one Emperor, who's currently a vegetable on a chair and therefore can't do whatever you're claiming other people claim.

Its not "just" a meatshield, but any tau player will rather have his opponent waste a round and a half firing everything they have trying to kill the Riptide than his far more fragile and important markerspam units.

It can hurt, especially for its price and slot.

>The Galaxy is a big place
And most of it is controlled by the imperium, the galactic north is plagued by orks, Tyranids and weird shit, their only two options are only planets on war anomalies, and even then some chapters actively hunts down renegades.

So, I've been playing this game for a couple weeks now, playing lots of games with my friends (using some proxies) just trying to figure out what factions and units we all like. I've had a lot of fun, but I'm wondering, are normal infantry units just worthless or am I missing something? Using formations instead of combined arms means you don't even have to take any, and I don't really see a reason to take them at all.

How so?

The argument works for everything which has not got a solid fucking bit of fluff.

It is mentioned, in lots of sources, that female Space Marines don't exist. It is specifically mentioned, in lots of sources, that the Emperor is (depending on the view point):

1. A man
2. A god
3. A Chaos powered man
4. A gestalt entity

There is, however, no mention about there is 100% defo no planet which is inhabited completely by gay men who use science to make babies with each other, who wear pink, listen to techno and have built a giant disco ball in the sky for all night raves.

Shitloads of gofast, Eldars and Deldars selection plus Forgeworld and their own shit, they even have war walkers with jetpacks.

Just finished painting the skittarii start collecting, what should I get next for my force?
I want a pure skittarii force, no ad-mech, is that do-able or will my force be terribly unplayable?

are you sure? the chaos lord of the dark veangance set has deamonheart and the blade of the relentless, they are both relics arent they?

No HQ means you can't play a CAD.

Are you guys playing for objectives or just deathmatches? Cheap units in vehicles are amazing for capturing and holding objectives. ObSec is even better than it sounds (and it sounds pretty damn good).

>There is, however, no mention about there is 100% defo no planet which is inhabited completely by gay men who use science to make babies with each other, who wear pink, listen to techno and have built a giant disco ball in the sky for all night raves.
Strangely enough that sounds a lot like monarchia, the Emperor's children planet in the eye of terror

It's not going to work. You just don't have enough options. Start building toward a War Convocation or a Space Marines primary force.

Not anymore mate, look at the new FAQs in the Facebook page.