/twewy/ - The World Ends With You TTRPG - Thread #03

>HP
The way that we were looking at HP is a bit different from what you're describing, though overall it's the same idea:

The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.

Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP. If a Player has HP, then any damage he takes will be subtracted from that total before it impacts Group HP. If he doesn't, then his damage goes directly to the Group HP.

It's a simpler approach than what you're suggesting, and I'd say more in the spirit of the original game, which we obviously can't replicate 100%.

If combos are per player, it'll encourage spamming combo pins, as there's no way a single hit can fill a combo. Ideally, combos should be based on the pins used. That way, the combo can be filled out regardless of the pin used.

>The HP stat of everyone in the Party is added up into the main Health Pool.
Alright, cool. Now all we need is a way to increase it. I think spending soul should work.

>when that character takes damage, you subtract from his PERSONAL Health first
This doesn't seem like a great idea. That thread is either going to be broken or useless, depending on how we're doing health. Also, if you're losing your own personal health, wouldn't that mean that as you lose health, the team health drops too? Because the whole team has your personal health total added in.

Also, the ability would be called Backup, like a Backup Singer.

Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile? That way, everyone gains health from your clothes, not just you.

>First is obviously Damage Value, how much it deals on hit. Next is Accuracy, the difficulty to dodge it.
I'd imagine it would be similar to how we're doing pin psyches, having them roll to hit and doing either X damage per success or doing X damage if they make Y successes.

>I also assume that some defensive characters can stun enemies to make them lose their turn/some AP?
Immobilize ability.

Could be for NPC players too. The NPC category is specifically for non-PLAYER characters, understand?

wait....how is that different from what I said?

you were here last thread, weren't you? why didn't you bring it up earlier?

>Also, if you're losing your own personal health, wouldn't that mean that as you lose health, the team health drops too?
okay, now I'm starting to feel that you're deliberately misreading the intent. I'm sure you know what I actually meant, so why don't we skip ahead and you tell me how I should word it so there's no rules lawyering?

>Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile?
so that there's additional reason to defend the squishy nukers, giving defensive units an active roll instead of being glorified stat sticks.

>Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP.
Even in the game, food adds more to their own HP, yes, but that is added to the collective total. If we have it equal to the stats (which I agree to) then the HP section could be split to HP total and HP bonus, which is added from stuff. Or, food bonuses could be temporary and could add to the combat like threads would. Once you're out of bites, you're out of bonus.

You said:
>Each character has an HP stat. The HP stat of everyone in the Party is added up into the main Health Pool. Or Symphony, whatever.

what I said was:
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value. Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP.

>Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile?
Because that makes it much harder for a player to be built for defensive purposes. Here's how I described it in the previous thread:

>Pop is a glass cannon. All of her points are put towards her attacks, and she has practically no defense and literally no HP. If she gets hit, all of the damage she takes goes to the Group HP.

>Jazz is defense focused. He has some HP, but mostly he put a lot of focus on Defensive Psychs and Skills. This means he's very good at preventing damage from being taken, and his HP serves as a small buffer for the GHP.

>R.B. is a meat shield. He's got lots of points in attacking, very little in the way of defense, and lots of HP. If he gets attacked he may not be able to block the damage, but that's okay, because he's got HP to spare, which protects the GHP.

>If Pop gets hit and takes 10 damage, all 10 of that damage is deducted from the GHP.

>If Jazz gets hit for 10 damage, let's say he has 4 HP, then his HP will soak that up and the GHP takes 6 damage.

>R.B. has, like, 25 HP. If he gets hit by an attack that deals 10 damage, he'll be reduced to 15 HP and the Group HP is totally unaffected.

Going a route where ALL +HP bonuses go direct to the group HP total flattens character building options.

Your point is to explicitly state that a character has no Personal HP unless they have Backup/Harmonics activated? .....I guess there's a difference, in terms of confusion?

But if you're trying to add up a character's stats to calculate their "contribution" to the Harmony Pool, wouldn't you keep that shorthand around on the character page, where I can see an HP window in ?

>Or, food bonuses could be temporary and could add to the combat like threads would. Once you're out of bites, you're out of bonus.
That's exactly how it works. Note on the Character sheet that there's a row of Bites and below it lines for Effects. When you eat food you fill in the number of Bites with a / Mark, and write underneath those Bites what that food does. During combat you can digest 1 bite at a time, turning the / into an X in exchange for the bonus given by the food.

For example, a piece of Food might give you +1 Attack and have 4 Bites. When you eat it you mark off four Bite Boxes starting from the left with / / / /. Underneath those boxes you write "Attack +1".

During combat you attack and digest one of those Bites, gaining +1 die to your attack pool. Afterwords your Bites are now X / / /.

>I'm sure you know what I actually meant, so why don't we skip ahead and you tell me how I should word it so there's no rules lawyering?
If this is a thing that we add, it should be written as "With the Backup (name pending) ability, you add X HP to the party HP pool. In addition, you gain a separate health pool with X HP in it that you may take damage from in place of taking damage from the team HP pool. Any excess damage overflows into the team HP pool."

This way, not only are you benefiting the team with the bonus health, but you still get your own pool.

However, I don't really see the issue with the team getting health in place of just you.

>additional reason to defend the squishy nukers, giving defensive units an active roll instead of being glorified stat sticks.
Thing is, everyone's effectively equal in regards to how squishy they are, because of the way stats and health work. A person with 7 Rhythm and a 3 in every other stat is just as powerful as someone with a 7 in Insight and a 3 in other stats. And even then, they're only slightly better than someone with a 4 in every stat, as they're more likely to do damage. "Stat sticks" aren't suffering at all if they can't take more damage, because there's so little difference between them and the minmaxed characters.

>Because that makes it much harder for a player to be built for defensive purposes.
No it doesn't. Get threads that reduce damage taken. Increase the group HP pool. You support the team with HP, they'll support you by destroying enemies faster.

>Going a route where ALL +HP bonuses go direct to the group HP total flattens character building options.
As I said, armour up. Threads that reduce damage taken will do exactly what we want. What you're proposing is 1) objectively worse than group HP, unless it's much more than group HP, and 2) reduces that teamwork aspect we were going for, as you aren't helping the team, you're helping yourself. There are other ways to build turtle warriors without resorting to tacking on more HP.

>you add X HP to the party HP pool
Can I ask why you included this part? I don't think it should be removed, but I'm not certain if it's worth complicating the calculation of the Party HP pool.

>X HP
why not have it scale, so that the effect can keep up with stat creep, and further encourage it for characters who are actually built for high HP totals?

>everyone's effectively equal in regards to how squishy they are, because of the way stats and health work
> A person with 7 Rhythm and a 3 in every other stat is just as powerful
when you say "powerful", are you talking about total HP they contribute? Because it kinda conflicts with the example I'm running off of here I was under the assumption that certain stats encourage high HP, and even some defensive characters can have low/mid HP but are good at negating, blocking or avoiding damage.

also see above. It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.

>also see above. It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.

Exactly. Having more than one way to build a character is never a bad thing.

Last thread we kind of brushed off the notion of Player Damage Reduction being a thing in order to keep the stats as simple as possible, but is that something we want to bring back to the discussion?

>You support the team with HP, they'll support you by destroying enemies faster.

From the last thread:

If a Player eats Food or wears Threads that boost HP, it's adding HP to the communal party total. He's not seeing any direct benefit from doing so. If Player A makes a decision that adds +5 HP to the party pool, then it's no different from if Player B makes that same decision, because it's all going to the same place.

Defense is slightly different, but fundamentally shares the same approach. By boosting your Defense (probably by adding extra dice to your Protect or defensive Psych rolls), you're attempting to reduce the total damage that the party takes. Where this matters is that a Player with low Defense is more of a party liability. If Player A has better Defense than Player B, he's better able to shield the communal HP from damage. If either Player A or Player B take 5 damage, it's the same effect (the Communal HP pool is reduced by 5), but Player A is better equipped to keep that from happening.

Attack is where the real difference is. A Player who prioritizes Attack in his Threads and Food will be better able to eliminate Noise than a Player who prioritizes HP or Defense. This is an obvious statement, but what we need to think about is "Is it more fun?" Some Players enjoy playing Tanky rolls, but a Player with lots of HP isn't himself Tanky-- the entire Party is. A Player with high Defense is indeed able to keep the party in battle longer, but that ability is undercut by Players with low Defense. This is kind of a tautology, but it's a bit more profound when there are only two states for the Party: either Everyone is Alive and Kicking or Everyone is Dead.

In short, by taking away the possibility of Player HP we'd be eliminating a major vector of defensive character building.

By the way this didn't get commented on so to add some info:

>We need to split enemy damage into their components. First is obviously Damage Value, how much it deals on hit. Next is Accuracy, the difficulty to dodge it.

Here's how combat works, as we currently have it:

Attack and Defense is an opposed roll. During the Player phase he choose a Psych he wants to use as an attack, then rolls a dice pool equal to the Stat it's resonant with and tries to roll at or under his Psych's Rank.

Noise can respond in a couple ways. They might do nothing and just take the damage, or they could Defend themselves. Noise's default defensive stat is called Bass; they dice equal to their base and try to roll under the Threat Level of the Encounter, which is basically its difficulty. This means that all Noise in a battle are dealing with the same Target Number, whether they're attacking or defending, so the only real question is how many dice they roll and what they do.

During the Noise Phase, Noise (usually) attack using their Treble Stat, again rolling at or under the Threat Rating for the encounter. Players can defend themselves with their Protect Skill or with one of their Psychs; by design defending with a Psych should be significantly more effective, given that Psychs have limited uses.

In the game where these mechanics are taken, Tenra Bansho Zero, the damage from an is Attacker's Successes - Defender's Successes + Weapon Modifier. So a Defender can still reduce damage from an attack even if they don't match the attacker's successors. One question we need to work out is if we want it to work the same way in this game.

>Can I ask why you included this part?
Helping the team.

>why not have it scale
Because new threads from new shops will want to be better. Item progression is important. It's the same as having multiple pins of the same type; some are objectively better than others. For high-level campaigns, give them high-level gear.

>when you say "powerful", are you talking about total HP they contribute?
No. I am talking about the relative strength (damage output) of that character. Long-range characters will deal less damage because they're working at range. Short-range characters will do more damage because balance. They have to move. Regardless, they're all doing lots of damage. The amount of HP they contribute is not important to the squishiness of the character in this game, as their HP is all going to be approximately even across the board (as it runs off the total stats). A person who has a stat array of 5, 1, 1, 1 (8) gives the same amount of HP to the party as someone with a stat array of 3, 3, 1, 1 (8).

>It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.
How would you fluff it though?

Wow I really screwed this one up.
>they dice equal to their base

Should be:
>they roll dice equal to their Bass

>How would you fluff it though?
How are we fluffing communal HP in the first place? I haven't really given it much thought myself.

>He's not seeing any direct benefit from doing so.
He's seeing a direct benefit in that his team isn't dying as fast.

>If Player A makes a decision that adds +5 HP to the party pool, then it's no different from if Player B makes that same decision, because it's all going to the same place.
This is wrong, I think. If for some reason a player isn't in combat (they miss a session, for example, or he's dragged into a different fight somewhere else somehow) then not only is the team losing the HP from that guy, but also losing the HP from the threads. Also, regardless of how it's done, tank characters are contributing less damage to the enemies than the LASS player. Everything has a good thing and a bad thing. More power = less defense, as your threads are going to boost one or the other. If you heal for the turn, that means you aren't dealing damage and making combat end.

Adding HP to the party helps the whole team more than just him, but that said, the whole team benefits, not just him. The opposite is also true. A player who only buffs himself isn't helping the party at all.

>Helping the team.
Please elaborate.

>Item progression is important.
of course? That's why-

hangon

.....do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?

>No. I am talking about the relative strength (damage output)
> as their HP is all going to be approximately even across the board
still not clear which one you mean for "powerful". Regardless, you're pushing for characters that have very little variation in combat stats?

When did we decide that
> A person who has a stat array of 5, 1, 1, 1 (8) gives the same amount of HP to the party as someone with a stat array of 3, 3, 1, 1 (8).
?
And even if that is the case, I still think Thread/Food/Sync choice should allow a character to contribute far more HP than others, but to make sure that they still have roles to play in the actual fight, they need to actually be the ones getting hit.

>How would you fluff it though?
Whether it's Symphony or Harmony, the representation is the Party's ability to maintain a stable connection with each other, how "in-tune" they are. Taking damage knocks them "out of tune", to a different beat/phase/etc. More HP means that they can get more out of tune and still manage to get back into the beat. Mitigation/Deflection is preparing for "noise" in advance and riding it out without getting off-balance.

"You have spiritually synchronized with the other players. Their pain is your own, as is their lifespan."

I'd imagine.

adding on, Losing means that the party disconnects from each other, and they take TIME to reconnect and get back in sync, hence the time loss.

Also, maybe some time was wasted running away from the noise.

>do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?
My thought process is that Stats and "Perks" should be folded together under the umbrella of "Effects", hence why I didn't include areas for specific Stats in the Thread section on the character sheet. The reason being that tabletop games are generally less able to cope with the stat treadmill that console RPGs tend to revolve around. High numbers are almost always hard to deal with, so we keep the numbers manageable. That said there's no reason why we can't have a Thread with more than one effect (at a higher cost or rarity of course)

>If combos are per player, it'll encourage spamming combo pins, as there's no way a single hit can fill a combo. Ideally, combos should be based on the pins used. That way, the combo can be filled out regardless of the pin used.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I'm following.

Would combos need to be executed within a single turn for a player, or would they be carried over into the next turn if they weren't complete?

I'm asking because of the format.

Things like the effect that let's you keep the Puck for longer is a set effect, clearly defined so that you can put a name on it and that's that. The variation usually came when earlygame equipment with that effect had no other stats.

So are we throwing out the standardized formatting of named Effects?

I doubt it, standardization is a good thing. We just need to fold in numerical boosts along with it. Like a Thread could have "Attack +1; Hold That Puck 1" or "HP+10; More Defense Breaks 1", etc...

Is that what you mean?

Hmm. So it's Name+X, and the X is used as the variable in all descriptions? That could work.

okay, I concede on the effect not scaling.

>Please elaborate.
If you give yourself a bonus to what is normally a communal pool, and don't give anything else back, it feels a bit selfish.

>do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?
I was under the impression it was flat bonuses or perks, depending on the threads.

>Regardless, you're pushing for characters that have very little variation in combat stats?
No. Not at all. It's just that a minmaxer would have the same HP as someone who has spread their point distribution.

>When did we decide that...
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.
Around that point.

>but to make sure that they still have roles to play in the actual fight
But that's my point. Everyone already has the ability to do each job in combat. If everyone has a pin to attack with, they can all be attackers. If everyone has a healing pin, they can all heal the party. If they have pins that debuff, they can all debuff. Everything in combat is dictated by the pins you wear, so "roles" in combat generally are less prominent than other systems, and can change from battle to battle.

Here's a more printer friendly version.

Fun fact: I just discovered that you can copy fillable fields from one PDF to another! That will save me SO MUCH TIME when I have to edit these in the future. So much time. I'm on the verge of tears.

>Can you elaborate on this?
Sure thing.

The way I read your comment, a combo is X hits to combo for Rock. If X is a number larger than... 4, let's say, then anything with a single hit and costs 2 AP to use cannot be combo'd by Rock, unless he's using another pin to build that combo before the big hit. If it's combo by pin, and the pin says "combo 2," then Rock can combo with that pin, using that pin alone.

RnB, on the other hand, is rocking a flurry pin and cracks the combo every turn he attacks. If the pin has "Combo 5," then it's harder to combo for him, sure, but it also means that he's not able to abuse combo mechanics.

>Would combos need to be executed within a single turn for a player
Yep.

>If you give yourself a bonus to what is normally a communal pool, and don't give anything else back, it feels a bit selfish.
if you give yourself a bonus that is (mostly)only useful if you commit an active effort in combat to support the team(block hits aimed at other people), doesn't it feel selfless?

> Everything in combat is dictated by the pins you wear
AND the clothes you wear. AND the food you ate. AND the sync bonuses you bought.

Yes, keep a pin for attacking or debuffs for that one situation where you want an entire party doing the same task or the main person for a particular role is disabled and you need to compensate.

But we still have player builds. They're kind of what differentiates one Player from another mechanically? Of course they're not going to be good at doing a role they aren't geared for, so give them a role that is particularly suited for the build(stacking HP) without making that role "nothing really, because once you stacked HP you're done. Feel free to be terrible at any other role"

Alright that makes sense. Not sure how much I REALLY agree with it but it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so I'm willing to accept it. I'll add that field to the Pin sheet.

Questions:

1.) Are Pins counting Combo hits as successful Uses, or a certain number of successes rolled? Like we have for Shockwave that deal a finishing knockback when you get max successes, but Shockwave is kind of an exception even in the original game since it had a built-in finisher that others Psychs lacked.

2.) What place, if any, do Thread Abilities that modify your Combo have?

>When did we decide that...
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.

It was raised last thread when I posted the idea in the first place, it got some yay posts and nobody objected so we moved ahead.

sleeeeeeeepyyyy

>if you give yourself a bonus that is (mostly)only useful if you commit an active effort in combat to support the team(block hits aimed at other people), doesn't it feel selfless?
Stacking defensive buffs gives the same effect without having to worry about tracking multiple health pools.

>AND the clothes you wear. AND the food you ate. AND the sync bonuses you bought.
Yes. Things that can be changed easily out of battle.

>so give them a role that is particularly suited for the build(stacking HP) without making that role "nothing really, because once you stacked HP you're done. Feel free to be terrible at any other role"
But if they've just stacked their own HP, it has the same effect, but only they benefit. They'll still be bad at combat in comparison to the strikers, and they're only going to soak damage because it's the only thing they can do, as opposed to, for example, remain back as support or maintain everyone's health levels at a decent amount, run interference or play beater or ranged. Having a separate HP basically forces them to tank for the party because that is now their only job. Giving everyone health removes that one option, but opens up multiple others. Tanking can be done effectively by people with high defense. People with high attack are the strikers. Health-buffing characters function best as support and buffs, but can function effectively as secondary tanks or strikers, given the correct gear.

Good morning /twewy/! Ah, that new thread smell!

I believe that the purpose of having combos be pin-based rather than player-based was to avoid combo abuse, as has been said. A powerful pin that has 2 uses, 3 AP each, would be objectively inferior to a weaker pin that has 6 uses, 1 AP each, if the weaker pin can push out three equivalent combos. It does depend on what pushing out a combo means outside of the puck however.

I had assumed that a combo was counted by the number of successes earned by that pin which somewhat correlates with uses. For example, something like Shockwave might only require a single success per successful hit, while something like Piercing Pillar R might require two or three. From my understanding we're folding accuracy and damage into a single dice roll: If it gets enough successes it hits and does minimum damage; if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

As for Threads, we could certainly have Threads abilities that change up your combo.

Regarding tanking, we also discussed last thread about having options for taking hits for other players. There will presumably be ways to increase one's ability to guard or evade attacks, and as we said before, one could move into another measure and block an enemy's attacks for someone else. You don't have to necessarily draw aggro, though we could consider abilities with that as well, so much as intervene though reactions.

I'll also note that the ONLY player who "has to" execute a combo in a given round is the one with the puck. Everyone else is free to do as they will.

>
I'm in favour of "communal HP based on total stats", though one could modify that with HP boosts. I'm also in favour of having additional optional "individual HP" which is essentially like armour.

There will be Threads that give bonuses to Party HP. There will be Threads that give a personal HP.

They don't have to be on the same article of clothing.

>1.) Are Pins counting Combo hits as successful Uses, or a certain number of successes rolled? Like we have for Shockwave that deal a finishing knockback when you get max successes, but Shockwave is kind of an exception even in the original game since it had a built-in finisher that others Psychs lacked.
Depends on the pin. For big, single hit attacks, combo would be successful uses, as they're running off multiple rolled successes to hit. For combo-based pins, it's successes rolled because we'll still have a max amount of successes per attack denoting how many small attacks hit. That max amount would generally be the amount to combo, so it's possible to do it with one roll if you're lucky.

>2.) What place, if any, do Thread Abilities that modify your Combo have?
Depending on what our combo does, extending the combo would either be incredibly useful or useless. Or it could increase the max hits for a multi-hit pin, or it could modify the combo ending attack to do something special (push back, knock down, knock into the air, status ailments, what have you) so it's always possible that it would come in handy.

It'd be especially useful for someone with a psyche that hits multiple enemies with the finisher.

>Good morning /twewy/!
And a big good evening to you!

Hmm...
I suppose. I'm not entirely sold on it, but since everyone is so in favour of it, I guess.

Just kinda figured that, since we were going communal HP like the game, we wouldn't be using individual HP as well.

It's extremely hard to work out a system that uses Pure communal HP because it takes away a lot of situational tension from the game. With pure Communal HP, the party only has two conditions: everyone is alive or everyone is beaten.

If characters can have Player HP as well, then it adds a little bit of nuance to that. The Party still stands and falls together, but each Player also has a reserve of personal vitality which serves the party (nothing bad happens to them if their HP is drained, and it incentivizes them to take actions which direct damage to them instead of other players).

Here's a new Draft of the Pin Sheet. Does everyone agree on how it looks?

Good evening to you as well.

As for communal v. individual HP, perhaps it would be better if we called the individual HP something different a la armour. Saying, "if you have armour [or whatever], you take damage from that armour first before HP" is fine. I would, however, say that we should be doing more active roles, such as the interception/boosts to evasion that I was discussing earlier. I think it's more fun and strategic than merely adding on HP, though that should also be viable.

>Or it could increase the max hits for a multi-hit pin, or it could modify the combo ending attack to do something special (push back, knock down, knock into the air, status ailments, what have you) so it's always possible that it would come in handy.
I like this. We should definitely have combo add-ons. By the way, I know that you were discussing the issue with player roles being changeable outside of battle, but I think that that's a feature, not a drawback. In the DS game you could try many different strategies as long as you had the stats and cash necessary to equip things, and we do have some gating involved with personal stats. But we should be able to switch out strategies as is needed.

>If characters can have Player HP as well, then it adds a little bit of nuance to that. The Party still stands and falls together, but each Player also has a reserve of personal vitality which serves the party (nothing bad happens to them if their HP is drained, and it incentivizes them to take actions which direct damage to them instead of other players).
Eh, fair enough.

>Here's a new Draft of the Pin Sheet. Does everyone agree on how it looks?
Noice.

Goodnight Jazzman, nice working with you today. Though we don't see eye to eye on EVERYTHING I'm glad that we can both compromise. You're an asset to this project.

As are you, friend. It's good to bounce ideas off each other.

Fillable Pin Sheet.

This should be all we need. Time to get to work fellas.

Looks fantastic, great work.

Is there a image file or a website that contains images of all the Noise and each Pin? That would be useful to have.

spriters-resource.com/mobile/worldendswithyousoloremix/sheet/50343/
pins here, or use the wiki.

Question for Shockwave and Combos:

Right now we have its Damage and Effects as follows:
>2 per success, Max. 3 successes
>If you deal Max Damage, knock the target Noise back one Measure

Does that mean that Shockwave has a 3-Success Combo with a Knockback Finisher? Or is its Combo something totally different?

I feel that Combo finisher should always be the max amount of successes for an attack, as it's the max amount of "hits" you can make in one attack. That would make it a 3-Success Combo with a Knockback Finisher, yes. It has an in-built Finisher mechanic. Combo is relative to the maximum amount of hits possible in a single use.

Persuant to that, a Combo with Shockwave is only possible if you roll 3 Successes in a single Use? That seems a little unforgiving, especially at the start of the game where that Pin is designed to be used.

What if instead the Combo was "Score 3 Successes in a single Round." That way it's possible to get one Combo per Use is you roll very well, or one Combo per Round if you roll modestly well, but still fail your Combo if you roll poorly in general.

That was what I had intended to say, yes. I didn't mean that you had to roll perfectly with each use, but to get combo, you need it in that round.

Gotcha, makes perfect sense then.

So it would look something like this:

Yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Not all pins will have finishers built in, or their finishers will be additional damage or something, but Threads and food can change that.

Should we have stacking Combo and Finisher effects or should we have replacing effects?

Also, just to make sure, Rank is what is needed to roll at or below to hit, correct? Because if that's the case, would starting pins start around Rank 4? Starting at Rank 1 seems a bit harsh.

I'd say replacing Effects.

And yes I agree that giving starting Pins at Rank 4 or so is a good idea; we haven't really discussed how to rank up new Pins yet.

Either Sync or Soul. I think we have Sync listed in the "Great Big Google Doc of Everything(tm) (patent pending)," but you're right in that we haven't really talked about it.

Also, how would you word cure drink? Just as it was in the game, 50% of your total, or equal to the amount of health you bring to the communal pool?

Shouldn't you be in bed now?

For Cure Drink, I was thinking that it restores Bravery+Successes to the Group HP, and if that is filled then the rest goes to your personal HP.

The wiki has the larger versions of all the pins.

They aren't in the game, they might be from promo material.

Yup that's where I got these from. They're beautiful although I need to save the file as a reduced size PDF to be postable here, otherwise it's like 17mb because of how high-res the pin images are.

Yes, I should. I'll do that soon.

>Bravery+Successes
I could see that. I'd rather it be for Insight though. I'm guessing different brands use different Stats, like, I think Mus Rattus have one too, which can use... I dunno, Flow or something. Tigre Punks would run off Bravery for sure.

Alright, NOW I go bed. Night all. Keep the thread warm for me.

Updated Cure Drink.

How about Force Rounds? Force Rounds is stated explicitly to be short range, so for Range
maybe 0-1, which means to be balanced against Shockwave it should deal 1 damage per Success. What about AP/Uses?

What's the maximum damage we want Force Rounds/Shockwave to be able to do? Max here meaning after 7 days.

Something like 1AP/4 max?

Alright for the purposes of developing Psychs I made this Google Sheet:

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzaK2H1btEJedUjH_8iyva_Qa2YBKDYDR3j3KBzFCtw/edit?usp=sharing

The Pins that I've recorded so far are from the TWEWY wiki (twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Pin_List_A), and are Pins that you get from Events starting from early in the game through the end of the game (I still need to add the ones for Another Day, and I didn't include any of the Tin-Pins either).

Next up we need to add Pins dropped by Noise from the beginning of the game through the end game, and then Purchasable Pins. That will give us a good idea of when you have access to what Pins, which will be a decent gauge for the game's Psych progression.

Once we have all the Pins we can make tabs to sort Psychs by Resonance, to make sure that the four Stats are roughly balanced, and by Psych, so that we can determine the power progression of the Psychs, measured in Magnitude.

Make sense?

Also I'm off for today, I'll probably pop in later tonight to see how the thread's doing.

Don't the Tin Pin X pins not have psychs aside from Ifrit, Shiva, Golem, and Bahamut?

Because I'm OCD about this stuff, I'm probably going to start putting the input types, and maybe even brands on the document.

And brands are already in there, maybe I should look at this shit first.

I remember using Tin Pin Artist to devastating effect my first play-though. I'll check.

...

Ah-ha!

Tin Pin Wind has the Patrol Rounds psych, TP Wheel has (obviously) Velocity Attack, Sun Scorch has Flame Blast, Rocker has Street Jam, Custom has Burst Rounds, Blade has Vortex Sabre, Ifret has Time Block, Artist has Lightening Bolt, Devil has Patrol Rounds, Hellfire has Flame Core, and Fire has Ignition. Shiva, Golem, and Bahamut, as you've mentioned, have Piercing Pillar, Earthquake, and Nexus Ray. I think that's all of them.

They all seem to be UNBRANDED however, and I can easily see how lacking a Psych and lacking a Brand could be confused.

What might have happened is that I looked at the stats and saw that they were almost always much lower than normal, so I never used them.

I'll throw those in the doc, since they're all event obtainable.

:O That would make total sense. By end game their only purpose is looking cool.

bump

I added Resonance for the Tin Pins, per the Psycholopedia.

What's Sacrifice do? I don't recognize that one. It's on Tin Pin Thrift.

Bump

Sacrifice puts you at critical + SOS Attack.

When in doubt, wiki.
twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrifice

nump

one more bump for the night

it goes bump in the night!

Tin Pin Thrift is also an essential part of LASS, might I add. Unless you wanted to be smacked in the face repeatedly at the beginning of every fight. Geez, you guys got work done.

I'll also give it a kick.

We work hard BECAUSE we play hard. Also something about a gay steel mill.

Morning bump. Lots to do today. I'll be working on this in a couple hours when I get to my computer.

I added the rest of the Event Pins from Another Day; most of them were Tin Pins and are already in the list but there were a few outliers.

Next up is Pins that drop from Noise.

Hey man, stick around for a bit! We can always use more input.

Here's some ideas I had regarding Pin ranks and Evolution.

I'm thinking that it's impractical to force Players to always start a new Psych at Level 1 the way it is in the game. Tabletop mechanics make starting from scratch a huge disadvantage and they also make grinding difficult. Even if we can get easy combats down a lightning fast 5 minutes or so, that's still five times longer than your average junk Noise encounter in the original game. The fact of the matter is that we shouldn't expect Noise grinding to occur in the same way it does in the source material.

I don't just want to say "All Pins start at Rank X" though; I think instead we should reward Players for leveling Pins by allowing that effort to be carried over from one Pin to another.

Here's the premise:

When a Player receives a new Pin, it's possible to carry over Ranks from an existing Pin under certain circumstances. For the time being we'll call this Psych Migration, though I'm personally a fan of Metempsychosis, though that may be a bit excessive.

1.) The new Pin must have greater Magnitude than the Pin being Migrated.
2.) The new Pin must have the same Resonance as the Pin being Migrated.

So if you have a Magnitude-1 Shockwave Pin and you acquire a Magnitude-2 Force Rounds Pin, you can transfer some of the ranks from that Shockwave Pin to the Force Rounds Pin, because they both use Rhythm.

How it works is based on the difference in Magnitude. When you Transfer a Pin's Ranks to a new Pin, you lose Ranks equal to the difference between their Magnitudes. So in the above example, you'd lose 1 Rank when migrating from your Mag-1 Shockwave Pin to your Mag-2 Force Rounds.

If the two Pins are from different Brands, then an additional Rank is lost in the process.

If the two Pins have the exact same Brand AND Psych, then it counts as Evolution instead of Migration. This reduces the Rank loss by 1, so if you Evolve a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin into a Mag-2 Shockwave Pin, you don't lose any Ranks.

(cont.)

However, the maximum number of Ranks a new Pin can acquire via either Migration or Evolution is 4. If you have a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin at Rank 7, and you want to Evolve it into a Mag-2 Shockwave Pin that you've acquired, that Mag-2 Shockwave can only acquire 4 Ranks; Ranks 5-7 will need to be earned via normal means.

This system pretty much gets rid of complex Evolution trees which work fine in the orignal game as part of the puzzle aspect of Pins but are harder to manage at the table. It also makes it so that a Player's effort at leveling a Pin isn't forfeited as soon as they get a newer, better Pin, and it gives new Pins a nice initial Rank Boost so they aren't totally useless off the bat.

Why not make Pin Fusion? Carry over half the ranks (but keep it like yours, 4 is the max end result) but the other pin is destroyed. Same brand trades up to 5 ranks instead, and trading to a different psyche is only 3 ranks (both cancel each other, making it 4 again).

You can trade only between 1 Mag of the fused pin (a Mag-2 pin can only be fused into a Mag-1, Mag-2 or Mag-3) and can only be traded into a pin with a lower rank than it's own. It has to have the same Resonance.

It's like your idea, but I think it feels simpler to me.

Hmmm what about this:

Force Rounds deals 1-6AP, with each AP you spend dealing 1 damage if you successfully break through a Noise's defense. That kind of replicates Force Round's rapid fire quality, and it's useful as a filler (you can just fire 1 Round if you've got a spare AP after your main attack). It also avoids having the Player make 4-6 separate rolls for each attack, which would take forever.

Thoughts?

Good modifications. So here's how it works:

>1. You can perform Pin Fusion on Pins that are within 1 Mag of each other.
>2. Pins giving up their Ranks during Fusion are called Donors. A Pin receiving Ranks during Fusion is the Vessel. Donors and Vessels must have the same Resonance. Fusion involves at least one Donor and exactly one Vessel.
>3. Donor Pins must be within 1 Mag of the Vessel Pin.
>4. The Vessel Pin receives half the total Ranks of the Donor Pins
>5. With Normal Fusion, the Vessel Pin can receive at most 4 Ranks.
>6. Skewed Fusion occurs if the Donors and Vessel have different Psychs. Vessels in Skewed Fusion can only receive 3 Ranks.
>7. Brand Fusion occurs if the Donors and Vessel have the same Brand. Vessels in Brand Fusion can receive a maximum of 5 Ranks.

How's that look to you? This allows you to fuse multiple Donor Pins into a single Vessel Pin.

Multiple fusions can muddy the water between what can give you 4 ranks and 5 ranks. I mentioned specifically that if it was the same brand but a different psyche, it would balance out to 4 ranks, but I don't know what would happen if it was dealing with multiple pins of differing brands and psyches.

Seems fine otherwise.

How about, as an effect, because it's a 1 AP per attack, you can say you spend additional AP when you use it to add more dice to the attack pool, equal to another attack with the pin, but uses an additional use. It allows players to roll multiple attacks at once, as well as make the most out of your bites that add more damage to your attacks. It feels a bit more like a shotgun, is my main deal with this though.

Players like rolling lots of dice though, so adding something to do that is always a good time.