40k - Sister's appreciation thread, Ecclesiarchy general

>armor that looks like armor
Neat

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I would kill to be able to paint an army up like this. ._.

It's only a matter of training, user.

Here's the link to the folder with the rules we were designing, if anyone's interested. It also has a reformatted version of the current codex for people who want the current codex but minus the shit formatting, and an Army List Template for people who want a SoB border for their army lists (it's a docx, so you need Microsoft Word to use it).

drive.google.com/open?id=0B4BtLTIkWwtAUnAtNlBQb3llU0k

Insofar as rules were concerned, we were talking about adding Biker Sisters and Build-Your-Own-Living-Saint rules shortly before the thread died. Thoughts?

>Biker Sisters
Yes.
I'm still hesitant between choppers and anti grav bikes.

>Build-Your-Own-Living-Saint
Mandatory. The DIY bits in the old Chaos Marines codex were one of the best aspects of the book.
If possible with a sister and a priest/citizen starting profile.
The Witch Hunters codex had relevant psychic powers, if you want to look at it.

Choppers, of course. No imperial jetbikes unless you're a walking gay joke.

Biker chariots or chariots pulled by chained up motorcycles.

That's sufficently 40kish.

So I'm going to base the Biker's initial profile on the Space Marine bikes, but where do we take them from there? What role do Sororitas bikers fulfill that isn't handled by another unit? What do Sororitas bikes bring to the table that SM Bikes don't?

Perhaps they're not actually perhaps snowmobile and since it's the Imperium they just can't tell the difference

putting a loud hailer on the back might do something or perhaps the bikes are banners / relics of saints only mobile and possibly Servo skull equipped

What if the bikes after the rider has been killed release a penitent person onto the battlefield they were acting as the controller of the bike until it was destroyed while the sister rode upon it visiting death on Heretics. This could be an archoflagelent it could be a Repentia it could just be a regular Imperial Cultist the idea that after this bike unit is destroyed it leaves behind some sort of Infantry could be an interesting difference from other bike units

That's an interesting idea. I was hoping to add another "repentant" unit to the army. The Bikers could be like suicide squads, repentant heretics who are given extremely dangerous jobs that absolutely must be done

>Holy Riders

Those overcome with the guilt, real or otherwise, of an unforgivable sin that commands them to atone with death. As such, the manner of death is to take as many enemies of the God Emperor with them with cheap but sturdy bikes two such penitents ride into the fray with no hope of living and only the desire to kill in his name

Rolled 4 (1d20)

a cage for a seat and an evicerator as the engine on the bike sticking out the side where the chain would have been

Maybe throw one of those buzzsaws that Penitent Engines have on the front. Make it so that whenever one of them dies, roll a d6. On a 4+, the model explodes. S4 AP6, small blast.

What about a Repentia on a bike, instead of an Evicerator give them melta-bombs. Their job is to die blowing up enemy bunkers, heavy vehicles or entrenched unites.

A guided naked missile.

I appreciate their secondary utility as armour paint.

In that case, should they be accompanied by a mistress of repentance or nah?

>Terrible pickup lines of the 41st millenium

So, how about this:

Sisters Mortia
WS4, BS4, S3, T4, W1, I3, A2, Ld8, no save

Wargear: Frag and Krak grenades, melta bombs
Mortia Bike: a light, fast bike with an Eviscerator on the side. When this bike makes a Hammer of Wrath attack, it hits at S6 AP2 instead of unmodified strength. Additionally, when this bike Jinks it gets a 4+ save instead of 5+ due to its speed.

Special Rules: AoF, Fearless, FNP, Rage, SoF

We need to give them an Act of Faith

"We Shall be Martyrs"
Something that ensures a vehicle to explode and wound as much of the enemy as possible.

Jink already is a 4+ save. If you want to increase it further, give them the Skilled Riders special rule, since that confers a 3+ Jink alongside the immunity to dangerous terrain tests.

>3+ Jink
>5+ FNP
>Bikes with melta bombs and S6 Ap2 HoW
I smell a Distraction Carnifex

They do have a cool look, I'm not really a fan but it saddens me to see them so ignored that they seem to be dying off in reality.

Martyr's Gift: One use only. This Act of Faith can be used in either player’s Assault phase. Every time a Sister Mortia is removed as a casualty in an Assault while this Act of Faith is in effect, the enemy unit who killed them takes D3 S4 AP5 hits with the Ignores Cover rule.

How should we do the DIY Living Saint?

Dude, seriously, what the fuck is your problem?

Did a Sisters player rape your dog? Burn your house? Murder your family?

I want to understand what could cause a person to have such a seething, foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of people who like a thing he doesn't like.

...

Dude. DUDE!

How about a "War Chorus"? You know with the "We march to the hymns of the Ecclesiarchy!"

Like a unit that has no usefull weapon. But as long there is one model within range of speakers (the loud howlers or something can't recall the name) SoB gain X thingy.

I suppose we could make Dialogus ICs that could join squads and give them Laud Hailer benefits.

Things I'd like to see in the next update:

>Death Cult Assassins allowed to take Crusader meatshields again
>Celestians in Artificer Armor with WS4 and I4 (20-25 ppm?). Same for Celestians in the Command Squad. There's also a conflict in base attacks between the two units.
>Repentia AoF turns FNP into an Invulnerable save while active
>Repressor added to Dedicated Transport selections
>Immolator granted its Fire Point
>Relentless added to Retributor AoF
>Seraphim "reroll failed invul saves" and Angelic Host "+1 to invul save" switched for ease of wording. Difference in gameplay is insignificant (31% for 6++6++ vs 33% for 5++).

Is she pregnant?

I've been giving this some thought and I still think heretic hunters/seek and destroy is the best fluff reason to have bikes. I've started picturing them as quad bikes and I still think it would be nice to have Cybermassiffs. How does the option of either sisters on quad bikes with guns (and assuming bikes still give it +1T) or cyborg mounts (gene vat forged using only genetic material native to holy Terra) that give bonuses for combat sound?
Also can we add cherubim with incense that obscures shooting? I'm thinking up to 3 and each one grants a 6+ cover save or adds 1 to your cover save. 4+ cover saves on Repentia if you take all 3.

>Death Cult Assassins
Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to make DCA so they can deploy in the Battle Conclave and get shields or in the Death Cult and infiltrate, and then take out militia and make them their own Troops unit.
>Celestians
I like this idea.
>Repentias
So they go from 5+ FNP to 5++, or to 3++?
>Repressor
I keep forgetting to do this, thanks for reminding me.
>Immolator
Immolators don't have Fire Points.
>Relentless
I think Rending prolly benefits them more than being able to move and shoot for one turn. Plus, there's a formation that gives them that.
>Seraphim
That would be easier wording, I'll throw that in

I'm adding a bike unit, it'll be in the next update, which should be ready later tonight. I like the cheribum idea, I'll look into that. Maybe make them like Ork grots, where there are different cherubim that give different benefits.

>So they go from 5+ FNP to 5++, or to 3++?
Maybe 5+ to 5+5++? Or FNP (3+) to 3++? I think it will take playtesting to get it right.
>Immolators don't have Fire Points.
They do now. Thank you based faqman.
>I think Rending prolly benefits them more than being able to move and shoot for one turn. Plus, there's a formation that gives them that.
There's a reason that no one plays Retributors with anything but Flamers: because Heavy weapons are shit without Relentless or stupid long range. When was the last time you saw anyone play Devastator Marines with anything but Lascannons or Gravcannons?

Make the AoF Relentless+Rending, or make them Slow and Purposeful, or make up a special rule that makes their Heavy weapons Salvo X/X where X is the base number of attacks or something.

>Death Cult and infiltrate
I can't think of any reason why I'd ever want to Infiltrate a unit with a 5+ save and no guns, but maybe just make a formation for 1-3 Conclaves with nothing but DCAs in them?

In that case you could give the bikers power lances, with an option for mancatchers (-1A for the enemy).
And maybe equip every sister with a bolter/flamer/melta, but get rid of the twin-linked bolter

I'm not fond of mounts for sisters, since they don't use animals anywhere (not even the Aquila, IIRC)

Having non-militant sisters has a HQ choice that can be detached to other squads, giving vairous bonuses, would be great.

Mistresses of Repentance are pretty wierd when you think of it. Repentias are supposed to be penitents on a suicide mission, respected but ignored by the rest of the Sororitas, and yet there is one sister Superior whose only job is to whip them.

>I'm not fond of mounts for sisters, since they don't use animals anywhere (not even the Aquila, IIRC)
I know and I feel it too a bit. The simple fact is that GW will at some point do something stupid like they did when they gave the Tau bigger battle suits and I'm lowering my expectations for the future.
>Mistresses of Repentance are pretty wierd when you think of it. Repentias are supposed to be penitents on a suicide mission, respected but ignored by the rest of the Sororitas, and yet there is one sister Superior whose only job is to whip them.
Those wips should force enemies to take a leadership test when changed and deduct what they lose by from their initiative.

The latest update is now in the Google Drive folder.
Patch Notes:
- Added the Repressor as a Dedicated Transport. Repressors may now exchange some of their weapons.
- Celestians and Canonesses can now take Artificer armour for 10 pts/model or 15 points respectively.
- Changed the armament of the Dominator. It now has an Inferno Cannon (which can be upgraded to a Melta Cannon) and 2 Hurricane Bolters.
- Added Frateris Militia unit to Troops. Removed Milita from the Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave, and gave them Death Cult Assassins again.
- Retributors are now Slow and Purposeful. They also have the Wall of Fire rule, which allows them to combine their fire for different effects.
- Added the Mortia Squad; Repentias on eviscerator bikes armed with melta bombs and grenades. Not sure what their points cost should be.
- Gave Immolators their fire point

- Changed some formations to reflect the new units and changes.
- The Sororitas Mission Formation now gives the Bonds of Sisterhood rule instead of Objective Secured. Bonds of Sisterhood gives all units in the formation +1 Ld for the purposes of AoF.
- Angelic Visage now gives a 5++ save. The Angelic Host allows all units to re-roll SoF saves.
- The Frateris Militia formation has been renamed to Ecclesiarchy Battle Contingent. It now consists of 1-3 Priests, 3 Frateris Militia, and 0-3 Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves.
- The Repentant Host formation now consists of 3-6 Mortia Squads, Repentia Squads, or Penitent Engines
- The Witch-hunter Contingent formation now consists of 1 Priest and 2 Celestian Squads.

- Added a Vehicle Weapons list for better organization
- Changed the rules for Acts of Fath. They still function in the same way, but the effects now last until the beginning of the SoB player's next turn, rather than until the end of the phase.
- Changed the Heavy Trinity Gun. It no longer fires a blast, but is 5 points cheaper.

Next update: DIY Living Saints, Cherubim, and possibly Kyrinov

For some reason I'm imagining Sororitas riding bikes out of landed dominca drop pods.

Not sure if trolling, but I'll assume not. It's just the way the parchment rolls down, you can tell by how it looks towards her feet.

I'm not a fan of giving them mounts either, and I've always thought cybermastiffs were more of an Arbites thing.

I like the leadership test idea, but we should try and find a simpler way of doing it (like, take a Ld test, if you fail, you lose D3 Initiative or something). Also, how long should this effect last?

>how long should this effect last?
Just the first turn otherwise the whole of combat depends on one roll.

Your words are so inspirational. You made your sisters proud.
I agree whole heartily and I will pray to the Emperor that he my protect your beautiful soul.

>Celestians and Canonesses can now take Artificer armour for 10 pts/model or 15 points respectively.
After doing the math, I actually think I'd make it base equipment for Celestians for an increase of 6 ppm (total 20 ppm), and increase the cost for the Canoness to 20.

Celestians in Artificer Armor with Bolt Pistol/Power Maul are effectively Assault Terminators with 6++ compared to 5++, S5 AP4 compared to S4 AP3, and T3 instead of T4, lose Deep Strike but gain the ability to Sweeping Advance and fit in a Rhino, plus a 12" shooting attack, that cost a horrifying 39 points (14+10+15) compared to 35 for the Terminators. If we can call that a wash, Artificer Armor should cost 6ppm, at which point it should just get rolled in. Plus, rolling it in will help to separate Celestians from Battle Sisters and Seraphim.

Meanwhile, a Canoness with Artificer Armor and a Rosarius comes out to 95 points compared to 110 for an equivalent Captain. While the Space Marine statline is more important on an IC than a mook, that's 15 points for a statline increase that Tactical Marines only have to pay 2 points for. Making Artificer Armor cost 20 will bring it into line with the 20 points the Captain is paying and keep the relative value of the two similar.

SOB operate within a niche as non-super soldier heavy infantry. A step about Stormtroopers thanks to their power armor and weapons, but a step below Space Marines due to the lack of implants and gene modification.

SoB are elites used to push vital area's, sweep interiors, or defend important locations. Their most common mission profile is cleanse and purify. Tyranids inside buildings/a hab block and you can't just flatten it for some reason? Send in the SoB. Cult leader has taken to the field and is using his sorcerous powers to devastating affect? SoB.

SoB should be the imperiums anti mage, anti demon, anti alien forces - short of the Space Marines. They are heavily armored and have devastating close to medium range fire power, including holy flamers (which i'm convinced should have their own special rules for being SoB).

They have weaknesses, of course. No main battle tank. No heavy support. Their vehicle selection should be limited to fast attack, transport, or close range fire support, forcing them to rely on elements of the IG for heavy armor, naval/airborne, or artillery. Wherever they fight, SoB are meant to be SEEN because they also double as inspirational figures - whether that inspiration comes in the form of hope, or in the form of gut wrenching terror because they're batshit crazy and have flamethrowers.

On the TT field, they should have abilities that let them counter the special abilities of other armies (pyskers, Sorcerers, communications, heavy armor, etc), but suffer due to their own Short to Med range and limited support selection. A Space Marine or Guard army should be able to out shoot them and a Ork or Chaos army should be able to out assault them. Where they thrive is in being able to negate enemies bonuses (and I am convinced their powers should be centered around this, either destroying morale or negating special mechanics like Waagh, synapse, or spells) and set them on fire.

But shooty terminators are trash that can't do anything right. Their strongest point is taking lots of heavy weapons if rules allow.

Are you guys for real? Look at it this way:

>Canoness with Rosarius, Artificer Armor, Bolt Pistol, Power Maul, Litanies of Faith
>Uriah Jacobus
>Hospitaller
>7 Celestians with Artificer Armor, Bolt Pistol, Power Maul
>Repressor (now with Assault Ramp)

You now have a Terminator Squad (2+5++) that can Sweeping Advance, with Fearless, Counterattack, Furious Charge, and FNP, and rerolls all failed saves (AND reroll failed FNP), and an Assault Vehicle that's basically a 75 point Land Raider that can hold twice as many models.

That's loads better than a 425 point Terminator Squad in a Land Raider, even if it were 50 points more.

According to my math, that's currently a 652 point deathstar. Bringing the cost of Artificer Armor down to 4 ppm for Celestians and increasing it to 20 for the Canoness would make it a 609 point unit.

Maybe I'm coming at this from too much of a fluff perspective, but what do Sisters do that Guard don't?
They're both the general armies of differing factions. They both have to be capable of fighting a variety of enemies.

To me, differentiating the tactics and emphasis of the Sisters versus Guard is like differentiating the 30k Space Marines from the Imperial Army- the Imperial Army was basically a shit version of the Marines and that's kind of it.

So I don't think in practicality the SoB need to have an emphasis on just close range fire fighting, because then you start doing stuff like bumping up their stats and giving them a fuckload of special saves to make them survivable in that position. But this is against the spirit of the army because they're supposed to just be baseline humans with good equipment, not superhuman Space Marines.

So I think they would fight in a manner similar to the Guard- staying away from the nasty, stabby enemies and using close range weapons as a sort of impregnable last line of defense. But they mostly just fly around in expensive tanks, directing expensive artillery, wearing expensive armour, shooting expensive bullets.

Please tell me how much of a faggot I am for thinking this.

>little tiddies

What are you talking about? IG is about infantry battalions are the thunder of approaching tanks. SoB is budget Space Marines with less toughness but more faith.

Sisters of Battle are basically 40k paladins. To quote a post from the last SoB thread from one of the SoB books:

"The heathen alien, the witch-psyker, the abhuman and the foulness of the mutant, even the sickening monstrosities of the Ruinous Powers - all these forces beat at the walls of humanity's salvation and tried again and again to drag it screaming into impiety and damnation.

None saw this as clearly as the Sisters of Battle. Oh, it was true that they did not fight this tide of enemies alone, but one could not expect the common soldiery of the Imperial Guard to weather such threats. The Inquisition, while companionable in some forms to the work of the Sororitas, often dallied too closely to the very things they set out to expunge. And the Adeptus Astartes... they were a melange of conflicted, tribal warrior bands that embraced undependable psychics and the tenets of transhumanism. A few of their number were more tolerable than the others, and all were faithful to the Throne in their own crude conduct... But they were never to be trusted."

>but what do Sisters do that Guard don't?
Sisters are city fighters. They defend property of the Church and citizens hiding in cathedrals and monasteries in time of need. They purge mutants and heretics living within hive cities. Sisters use lots of ignore cover weapons and short range anti-vehicle weapons both best used in urban environment, For the same reason they can't use much artillery and tanks like IG, they aren't very effective here, vulnerable and cause too much collateral damage (ignore grimderp for a moment). They are very different from IG aesthetics.

I want to see bike riding Sisters roaming toxic wastelands outside hive cities Mad Max style, hunting mutants, cultists and occasional xeno. IG can't do that

Could we use the order creation tables to make one based on that pic?

Just write their fluff like a normal person.

We could also give them the Mindscrambler grenade Neural Trauma rule, which is makes it always wound on a 4+. Maybe give it haywire as well.

I like the idea of Celestians all getting artificer armor to distinguish them from normal sisters, I think I'll add that to the next update.

609 points for a deathstar seems reasonable to me, considering the points costs of some of the other deathstars out there.

I'm planning out the DIY living saint rules now, will post them soon for review

>Poison
>Haywire
Why not just make it a D-scythe that point?

Ideally the Mistress should support her changes, it's their show she's just there to show them the way.

IG is just as much about dudes rolling across the field and dumping out of their transports to spew flames/melts/plasma at the enemy and then hoping the enemy died too hard to return fire or had something else to shoot at. That actually goes for every Imperial faction, and every faction in general. It's just an upwards scale of ability to survive the incoming fuckfest after you blow your load. Funnily enough, while marines are best suited to survive it, both SoB and guard are better equipped to carry it out, as vets and BS squads have a much better weapon options than tact squads for that purpose.

SoB being the middle ground between SM and guard means they can't just steam roll the enemy with MASSIVE numbers or big damn hero their way through everything like gods of war. If guard gets bogged down, they send in more men and bog the enemy down in return, if marines get bogged down, they cut their way out, if SoB get bogged down they're fucked. So looking at their gear the SoB niche is maneuver warfare. Simply speeding across the field, burning and meltaing whatever they can before moving on before the enemy can respond. Tempo tempo tempo. That's how they stay out of the nasty stabby, they get the fuck out of dodge.

I basically imagine SoB on the offensive not unlike First Recon in Generation Kill, Cannoness Ferrando believes in the violence of action. It even explains that one SoB pic that's really nicely drawn, until you notice the diaper.

Imagine a bunch of disgruntled SoB getting stuck in the rear guard IG traffic jam because they took a wrong turn.

Rules wise, taking notes from SM formations would be idea.

Shit like the Storm Lance demi-company would be perfect for SoB.

sisters largely act as extremely over-equipped riot police, rather than military forces

>sisters in toxic land
I had the idea for a desolator like unit for SoB, something with rad grenades, extra sealed armour, FNP against poison wounds and some other nastiness and/or resistance to nastiness.

youtube.com/watch?v=Id9c5PiJ9KY

No, that's the adeptus arbites, who get bolt weapons and carapace armour. The sisters are a military unit.

*military force

My concern with a DIY Saint is that it takes away a lot of St Celestine's special nature.

>The sisters are a military unit.
primarily concerned with internal affairs and investigating/persecuting imperial organizations and individuals

The sisters are the church's enforcers.
The arbites don't answer to the ecclesiarch.

SoB are a complicated force. Their defining trait is who holds their leash. They're essentially the watch dog of "the party" in this case, the church. They're NKVD to keep the actual military and the free lancing knight in line with party politics, they're the riot police to quell riots and rebellion,they're the swiss guard that protects church property, they're revolutionary guard or Waffen SS to act on the regime's behalf rather than the nation. They're whatever the ecclesiarchy needs them to be.

Except they also serve as the sword at the Ecclessiarchy's neck. They are there to put down the Ecclessiarchy as much as protect it. They showed that with Vandire and it's why they were kept about.

Alright, I've written up some alpha DIY Living Saint and Cherubim rules.

Living Saint Rules

WS5, BS5, S3, T3, W3, I4, A3, Ld10

Special Rules: AoF, Fearless, IC, Martyrdom, SoF

Starting wargear: Flak armour, laspistol, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades

A living saint must take one of the following backgrounds (these will cost points when finished):
Heroine (celestians or canonesses): Gain +2 to WS and BS. Comes with a rosarius.
Seraphim: Gain +2 Initiative and Attacks. Comes with a jump pack.
Dominion: Gain +2 BS and the Fleet and Scout rules.
Retributor: Gain +2 BS and the Relentless rule.
Repentia: Gain +2 WS and S and the Hatred rule.
Priest: Gain +2 Attacks and the War Hymns rule.
Pilgrim: Gain +1 to Toughness and Wounds.

A Living Saint must select an Act of Faith from the Living Saint Act of Faith table (tbd).

A Living Saint may select items from the following wargear list:
- Carapace armour: 4 pts
- Power armour: 10 pts
- Artificer armour: 20 pts

- Boltgun or bolt pistol: 1 pt

- Rosarius: 15 pts
- Jump pack: 15 pts

A Living Saint may select items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Special Weapons, or Heavy Weapons lists.

A Living Saint may select items from the Living Saint Relics list. (tbd)

Alpha cherubim rules:
Cherubim are upgrades that may be taken by certain models in an Adepta Sororitas army. The upgrade is either represented on the model itself, or by a suitable model placed beside the model with the upgrade. Cherub models are purely decorative and are always ignored for game purposes – just move them to one side if they get in the way.

Armourium Cherub: 10 pts
A model with an armourium cherub can re-roll one To Hit roll when shooting.

Hymnal Cherub: 10
A model with a hymnal cherub can re-roll failed Leadership tests when attempting an Act of Faith.

Incense Cherub: 15 pts
A model with an incense cherub gains the Stealth rule.

Spy Cherub: 20 pts
Enemy units with the Infiltrate rule must deploy at least 18" away from a model equipped with a spy cherub, even if they can't draw line of sight. Additionally, a model equipped with a spy cherub has the Interceptor rule.

Warrior Cherub: 10 pts
A model with a warrior cherub can re-roll one To Hit roll in close combat each turn.

Witch-hunter Cherub: 15 pts
A model with a witch-hunter cherub can re-roll one of the dice when rolling to Deny the Witch.

>They showed that with Vandire
by blindly supporting him throughout the entire atrocity?

They were likely kept about because they proved to be dim and easily controllable.

No because they chopped his head off at the end. Thor and the Custodes trusted they'd do it again.

Crazy idea for the SoB codex.

Give them Taurox access?

Vandire tricked them into thinking that he was the Emperor's chosen or something like that when he first met them. He told them to gun him down and that the Emperor would protect him. They tried and failed (because he had a refractor field) and so gave him their blind obedience. It wasn't until the Custodes showed Alicia Dominica the golden throne that they came to their senses.

I'm going to bed guys. If the thread dies while I'm asleep, I'll make a new one so we can keep at it. I think we're getting close to having a playtest-able beta codex though.

I'd rename the Priest and Pilgrim ones, just to keep them with the SOB theme.

>Vandire tricked them into thinking that he was the Emperor's chosen or something like that when he first met them. He told them to gun him down and that the Emperor would protect him. They tried and failed (because he had a refractor field) and so gave him their blind obedience. It wasn't until the Custodes showed Alicia Dominica the golden throne that they came to their senses.

That and they were literally a rather primitive group at the time. They didn't have technology for junk.

Funny thing: The Dialogus do literally the same trick these days to help prove themselves to new worlds with low tech. They use imperial technology quietly to improve the world and stay quiet on the fact that it's tech. After all, the Emperor is the same as the Omnisiah so they ARE granted to them by the Emperor.

I think Immolators and Repressors kinda fill that roll already.

I just wanna use the one i have and make it a desert truck. Desert trucks don't fit in with my IG army because they're Vietnam war themed. Been wanting to do crusader+desert storm mashup. sister army, and the taurox would fit that well.

I don't know how Tauroxes (Taurocies?) compare to Rhinos size-wise, but you might be able to proxy it as an Immolator or Repressor or something.

I share you view of SoB being city fighters. Then again I also find that they are the Paladins of 40k.

Something on the lines of Hawkeye from age of ultron where he tells Scarler witch to either hide or fight, what ever she choose is fine. If you choose to fight give 'em hell.
Or the Demon Hunter from The Diablo 3 trailer. Be the Hunter or get hunted. They will fight as long as the enemies of humanity keep on coming.

Religious fanatic sure, but they know how much above they are of the common folk

Vietnam had gun truck going from GMC with M2s to M113 on an armored flatbed.

Stupid idea of the day: How about a tarpit unit of killer cherubs?
Sleep well user, thanks for your work.

Is she free 1-1 HQ choice or she costs something before upgrades? Looks like 35 points worth of abilities.

Yeah, you can bring one Living Saint (including Celestine) in an AdSor army, and yes, Living Saints will have a base cost+abilities.

...

I feel like we're getting distracted from the objective and just dumping shiny stuff in. Instead of Rule of Cooling up our codex, why not just look at the things that are genuine problems with it, fix those, and call it a day? Between my own analysis and what I see in these threads, here are the issues we need to fix:

>Hospitallers need to become ICs
>Dialogus need to become ICs?
>Celestians need more a more clearly defined role
>Repentia need an assault transport and maybe a bit more survivability
>There needs to be more than one option for troops
>Penitent engines need to become more reliable with increased speed or survivability, and maybe move to FA or elites
>Exorcist needs to be squadroned
>Avenger needs to be replaced by an SoB flyer
>Retributors need to be able to move and shoot

I think we should keep it simple. All of these things have already been fixed. We should just leave it at that and start testing and fine tuning with points. Maybe work on formations as well. We really don't need bikers or swarms of baby roboangels or DIY saints or any of that stuff. Just rename Celestine and call it a day.

I don't really want another decade of the same old things (formations are old things with shiny special rules slapped on them).

Make sisters yuri canon

That is all