Hey fa/tg/uys...I need your help to save one of the best DnD games I've ever played from being destroyed. Wall of text incoming, but I'll have a tl;dr nutshell at the bottom.
It's an Oriental Adventures game that's played over Roll20. I know that sounds like it's asking for trouble, but the DM is actually very good. He has a fantastic story planned out that looks like it will span over the course of quite a few years (we've been playing for 2 already) and I would like to emphasize how much I appreciate this game. I've had very bad experiences with just horrible and cringey DMs. From DMs that had characters get gangraped as plot points that are required for the story, to campaigns that were just random encounter after random encounter with literally no story...I've had my share of shitty games. We all have, I'm sure. But very rarely in my 7 years of playing DnD have I found a truly remarkable, greatly enjoyable game. This game means alot to me, to actually play DnD and have fun...to have a wonderful setting and story....to be able to affect the story...encounters that weren't bullshit yet were fair challenge...actual sensible realism (or as realistic as a magical world gets)...having fun roleplaying...and having a DM that just wants people to have fun. I have craved a good game for many years and finally found one for me. But now...my campaign is in danger because of That Guy. Or..."Those Guys," I suppose.
Let me preface something. The original group from the first chapter of the game is no longer there. (cont.)
Samuel Turner
By the way, some of Those Guys do use Veeky Forums and if they find this post; I'M GLAD. Hopefully people's responses will show you that you're being the problem players that you are. Also I forgot to mention, it's 3.5e.
There are only two people left of the original group (including me), and me and the remaining original player were assigned co-DM because the DM trusts us and has played with us for a long time and says we're good players, which is flattering, I suppose. Our main job is basically to lead the group into the plothook or side encounters or to prepare a session for the players when the DM cannot attend, and to sometimes give the DM suggestions on how to implement things. I had to leave to group for some time because of college life becoming intensive. I was out for about 5 months or so. The other co-DM had to go on a hiatus as well, something to do with him being in the military. When we finally returned...well we returned to something much different than what we left from. We were the only players of the original group still there (They all had varying reasons for taking their leave) and they were replaced over the course of some months. Here I will give you insight to the kind of players they are, and for the sake of argument and to protect identities we will change some names. We will call Main-DM Chris and the other co-DM Daniel.
The first is Oscar. He is playing a skill-monkey that is optimized to ridiculous levels (average diplomacy rolls of about 60+...party level 7-8) but that's not the major issue. He is a tad argumentative and dislikes some of the DMs houserules and while he is clearly irked by them, half the time he does submit. However, the other half of the time he argues with the DMs. Either way, not too bad so far.
(cont.)
Cameron White
Then there's Sam. Sam is a horribly habitual powergamer. Not only was his first character a broken-as-hell artificer that was literally invincible, wore armor that gave him fly at will and gave more AC than full-plate, charged for 100+ damage, had at-will fireball as a 12th level Wizard (or so, didn't get the exact numbers on that because he wouldn't let me see his character sheet at first), and created a wand that had infinite charges and gave the target ANY fighter bonus feat REGARDLESS OF PREREQEUISITES for 90 minutes, but he was caught cheating TWICE. He was asked to retire the character because it's too powerful and he was caught cheating. He was asked to make a nonoptimized character. So he proceeds to make a 7th level summoner-type character that can summon 4 levels higher than himself, summon 4 of everything he can (when 1 of the things he summoned could solo bosses), and any attacks dealt by anything he summons can deal an additional 5d6 sonic damage per hit. This summoner is also permanently invisible and immune to True Seeing and all forms of detection, including sense life, INCLUDING CONNECTION TO A FUCKING PLANE. All-in-all, his second character was even more powerful.
I should also mention, Oscar and Sam are friends that are working together to ruin the campaign setting. Fluff-wise, their characters are "totally not American" colonists that are trying to turn "not-Asia" into a profitable endeavor. They are trying to get them to drop their, and I quote, "Barbaric culture" and strip the land of all resources and anything they can make a profit with, ravage the land, and gain the support of the people that live there anyway by instilling a mass-media that they control. I see what they're trying to do there and I find it clever, but there's little reason why these characters shouldn't be BBEGs. They also have a much higher level of technology than the setting has, having among other things STEAM-POWERED TANKS AND BOMBING ZEPPELINS. (cont.)
Luis Sullivan
I know you aren't finished yet, but I'm a little confused as to why your DM is allowing these things to happen. Literally all he has to do is tell these players "no, you can't use that build/item/zepplin/whatever" or kick them out if they have a problem with it. There are plenty of players out there who would happily take those spots, I'm sure.
Brody Cox
Oscar sounds like he needs to chill out. Sometimes things don't go your way and even your diplomacy of 60+ won't save you.
At this point I have to ask: why did you enable these guys? In my opinion you aren't enjoying yourself so you should stop right there and start anew.
Although I still don't know what kind of relationship you guys got, since you are a co-GM -which in my opinion is making the whole situation messier...
Jordan Jackson
Sam and Oscar also have control of an ARMY, have hundreds of thousands of gold, and control an entire group of engineers that continually make ships/tanks/whatever for them. I'm sure youre asking: WHY is it possible for them to have acquired all of this?
Well, to be blunt, the DM is a fantastic person but he's FAR too nice. Being nice is a great trait for a DM, but Sam and Oscar, while me and Daniel were gone, continually brow-beat the DM into giving them everything they wanted and the DM for some fucking reason submitted to them. You have to understand, the DM was far too concerned with them having fun and far too nice to say no to them. He has learned that this is a bad idea by now (through experience) and that you shouldn't trust just everyone. He made these decisions because he took advice from Spoony (Noah Antwiler if ya know of him) and that advice was "Always say yes."
I should also mention, Sam's new character has a cohort through leadership that he said is a bard that plays speed metal. Electric guitars don't even exist in the setting but he demanded that's the case anyway. Throw in her dark, brooding backstory, her having black hair and wearing all black, her always brooding in the corner and never talking, and we have a fantastic example of the 13edgy666me That Guy stereotype.
Whatever, it was total shit but we put up with it anyway. Why? Well, I guess we were naive...but it only got worse from there.
I should also mention...we'll call him Bill. Bill too has a total min-maxed character (Warblade/Warmind...) but he has a good attitude, roleplays well, and FUCKING LISTENS so we're glad to have him anyway. We found out later he only cheesed his character out so that he didn't fall behind Sam and Oscar.
One of the other non-problem players (we will call him Andy) got tired of the powergaming bullshit and straight-up left the campaign because he said it ruins the fun. It was highly regrettable, but I suppose I really can't blame him. (cont.)
Evan Reed
OP here.
I just explained that a bit in my following post, and things might go that way.
I enabled them not at all, the main-GM is the shotcaller. All we do is counsel him and help. co-GM might not even be the right term, that's just what Chris calls it. I complained about this from the very beginning, but I'm afraid at first I was the only one. Other people didn't complain untill things got REALLY bad, but moving onwards...I have to warn you it gets MUCH, MUCH worse.
William Thompson
I'm sure I'm part of this board's cancer by saying this, but it sounds like alot of the issues you're experiencing, especially in regards to min-maxing, are because you're playing 3.5. Have you considered giving 5th edition a spin? It's a much more balanced system that doesn't actively encourage min-max'ing to nearly the extent 3.5 does.
Oliver Reed
Tell your GM that Spoony is a raging retard and he shouldn't listen to a word he says.
And start from scratch.
>I have to warn you it gets MUCH, MUCH worse. monitorlizard.jpg I am always up for a trainwreck storytime. It makes me appreciate my GM who absolutely does not let us get away with bullshit and will assertively tell us when something is not going to fit in the campaign.
Jaxon Barnes
OP again. Whoops. I fucked up the link - forgive me often reading Veeky Forums but rarely posting. By second response was to the second post. Continuing the story...
