Flames of War: Cold Hard Suchka Edition

> $195 US dollarydoos.

Dammit BF...you make plastic Pershings and IS-2s when you should be giving the workers what they really need!

Hey now, it's a full 900 points in mid war.

It’s definitely a lot of money per points relative to other FoW armies. So start playing 40k, then come back and spend $200 on SU-76s as if it were nothing.

An IS-2 is $15.

It helped that I had come from playing Orks, where 145pts was $900... Exaggeration, but it was stupidly ridiculous how 3 bikes were 90 pts and costed $45, and I needed 12 of them.

>15 Su 76's

fucking casuals, real men run 21 with 12 zis 3's in support

Real men post photos of fully-painted models and not just the wishlist.

Do you really need ZIS-3s on top of the SU-76m's, or would something different cover more ground?

>do you really need zis 3's on top of the SU 76m's?

Because fuck you thats why.

And dont ask the guy who made a 12 su 152 list just because he could. Give me a couple months and Im sure I'll be heading down that road to madness in no time

Gotta have some broken-as-fuck SU-122s.

15 SU-76s
4 SU-122s
5 KV-8s
Fill the rest with whatever goddamned thing you feel like running. My vote is (usually) ALL the artillery. All of it. Because you can fucking afford it.

Having ZIS-3s on Wide Tracks, is actually super useful. Especially when you can drive up and volley fire HMGs with impunity.

I’ll be impressed if it went beyond list stage.

12 ISU-152s would be crazy, but a good crazy. They can kill everything, so it should work as long as you can keep the enemy at arm’s length. Just think how loud and hard the real-life booms would be.

Maybe I'll go ISU-152 heavy in TANKS.

ISU-152s are actually pretty overcosted in FoW (105 per tank). They're priced under v2, when Bunker Buster had no penalty while moving.

SU-152s are actually priced alright, coming out at 75pts per tank. And they are effectively a T-34-85 assault gun with a big ass cannon, and top armor 2. That means the ISU effectively pays 30pts for +2 front armor, +1 side.

this is balanced out by the fact that SU 152's are only available in companies of 3.

It really sucks, I would love companies of 4, that alone would be amazing. I dont get why theyre stuck at 3 when the ISU's can have up to 5 per unit yet cost way too much to do that.

Strawpoll got botted recently, it fucked up a bunch of different polls.

The poll's been like that for a while, though I'm not sure how much of that is repeats and how much is lurkers and once a month posters.

>strawpoll.me/4896764

i can remake and repost if you like....

>ISU-152s are actually pretty overcosted in FoW
>SU-152s are actually priced alright

I didn't even know they were different vehicles!

yep! ISU means its based on the IS2 hull. SU 152 is based on the KV hull.

They look very similar and have the same gun, so they are pretty easy to mix up.

Sadly I think you are stuck with 4 for most Eastern Front list, with maybe a max of 8 for a couple. Still a very cheap support option. If anyone at PSC or Battlefront is listening: Please make plastic shashkas!

we need a petition to be sent in to Battlefront with a crate full of mosins and vodka to persuade them

Well, the 25pdrs have hit the HW crew. Now they just need to add 66% to the current value in 5 days for us to get plastic sextons.

Fuck.

>shashka
that's a cossack's sword...did you mean Cyka or did i miss something?

this is BF, they'd just hang up the Moisins and likely mix the Vodkas with strawberry syrup and conservative's tears.

i did a little extra work today. too bad i can't post it. my own AP vs. armor calculations

>Spoilers
As in, statistics for AP vs varying armor, or for matching round penetration and armor thickness to FoW numbers?

Might as well post it. Added Tulips with this one, since nobody seemed to hate the uparmored cromwells/challengers or CDL changes. And because Lord Viruscide plopped down mostly-done rules for them after I posted the previous revision.

Tulips have been made so they're great against large objects (and gun teams, though that's just copying the sturmtiger rules), but shit against mobile units. I'm unsure about the points. On one hand, they're very potent against their intended targets. On the other, they're pretty much useless against everything else.

As always, feel free to comment on or mock my attempts at balancing or making rules.

...... ...... ....... .... .... .... ...........my own project.... ..... ...... ...... .....

whoa, i didn't know the tags did that....

never stack spoilers, kids...

Fucking thanks you, it even have the grey wolf revised. Who ever was the user that uploaded the gray wolf digital i love you.

All these beautiful lists in the Gray Wolf DLC
>Confident trained Panther Kompanie.
>Alway attack Grenadier Kompanie from Korsun pocket because why not?.
>All these HG kompanies, even that Panzerspahkompanie with the pak40 puma.
>Beutepanzerkompanie with french tanks in finland.
>SS skiing recce infantry in finland.
>All those extra finnish and hungarian lists.
Axis/10

Fuck you battlefront for made them digital exclusives.

How are the soviets ones? if they are as varied as these i am going to try to buy them

>>Confident trained Panther Kompanie.
With naval gunfire support.

Soviet lists are very generic and lack the special "snowflake" ones entirely (e.g. ##th Panzer Division, Big Red #, ##th Royal Guards Armor Company). This means there is *some* variety, in that the Soviets have rifle battalions (infantry), assault guns (self propelled artillery), tanks, motorized rifle, etc. But there are like 2 to 5 slightly different variations of them, and all are very generalized and exceedingly redundant.

A good example of this are the Tankovy lists... Red Bear revised has a grand total of 3 of them, and the only difference is one has Lees, Matildas, and T-34-85s mixed with T-34-76s; another has the ability to be Fearless and is all T-34-85s; and the third is all lend lease M4 shermans (both 75mm and 76mm), and had to be Fearless. Then there's the 2 Desperate Measures Tankovy lists, both of which are a composed of T-34-85s and T-34-76s, and have access to a few new upgrades and units (bedspring, IS-2 obr '43, 160mm mortars). The main differencr between the two lists is one is otherwise a normal tankovy setup, and the other features drastically smaller unit sizes for minimal gain (although it makes it somewhat easier to transition into running normal Soviets, if you can tolerate the curb-stompings).

Basicaply, expect some of the variety, but none of the flavor or detail spent on other armies. If you want lots of flavor and special rules detail, but not Germans, the look towards Americans. British are in a weird spot between Americans and Soviets. They have the variety of Germans and Americans, but none of the abundance for special rules the Americans enjoy.

Are those the digitals ones? Because i was asking if the russian digitals were interesting or at least a little better than the normal ones.

Most of those were available as free PDFs (Panzer Brigade, KG Kastner, Hungarian Infantry, etc.) they've just been added to the digital thing now. HG Eastern Front and the 20. Armee lists are new however....and have taken an age (literally years) to actually become available thanks to BF's dithering.

The HG Eastern Front lists are available on Forces now too...after being announced as "available" in October 2015....

> How are the soviets ones? if they are as varied as these i am going to try to buy them

>Soviet ones
> as varied as anyone else's

Do you even FOW bro?

Hah! That's what I get for trying to post right before bed.

>How are the soviets ones? if they are as varied as these i am going to try to buy them

Actually, related to the Soviet Whining, and Warthunder related Whining. Why don't the Soviet Ground attack aircraft have PTABs?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTAB_(bomb)
Something like a No HE, AT 6 FP:5+ weapon?

Well, but weren't they updated? The thing is since they are now the Grey Wolf digital esclusive for me they feel more "official" and cleaner.

Well i didn't knew about the HG Eastern Front and the 20.Armee ones and they are more than the half of the digital lists, maybe it is my fault since i never use Forces.

>Soviet ones
>as varied as anyone else's
I knew i was going to be naive but i wanted to believe.

I would bring an IL-2 in every list if it could carry Stalin's Sprinkles

Why? Because mathematically, there'd be no reason to use it since it'd be inferior to the AT6 FP3+ rockets they (almost) all have anyway. Unless it hit on, like, a 2+ or something.

the main FoW site did not update today.

WTF?

>Well, but weren't they updated?

No, no updates, even the same errors and spelling mistakes. Basically just a C&P job from the PDFs into a different format.

Bombs cover all that. No need for that level of detail.

No. The digital-only ones aren't any different. To continue with the LW example, the digital lend lease Hero Tank list is just the Hero T-34 Tank list from Desperate Measures, reskinned with shermans.

Go easy on him. He's new and mostly interested in Germans. Most of us started there, and none of us came into this game with the slightest bit of knowledge about how the briefings were.

My bad then that is why i get for living in a bubble, never visiting the Battlefront website and only sticking with Eastern Front, Gray Wolf and Red Bear in the FLGS. Now that i think about it nobody there ever cared about the online briefings, even nobody said a thing about russians being underpowered aside IS-2.

Well i play since 2012

In my experience, nobody honestly believe the Russians are underpowered in FoW. They can make some pretty mighty lists, that can feel like a demoralizing uphill battle to go against. The only time I've seen players complaining about how underpowered their Russians are, is if they're just starting and haven't gotten the grasp of Hen and Chicks, or if they're trying to run a Hero tank list. The former is an understandable hurdle all new Soviet players have to cross, the latter is just te problem with those lists.

The IS-2's main issue is that it's too expensive, and not very effective at anything other than assaulting. It is a testament as to why expensive ROF 1 tanks need some kind of perk, such as a conditional reroll to hit.

Under-powered? No, just lacking in some unit-specific briefings, that's all. Except for the IS-2...it could use a tweak, but good luck convincing Anyone @ Battlefront.

Soviets can build some very effective lists, I just hate how their most effective units/combinations are mostly unhistorical gimmicks, e.g. Lee is the best tank, SU122 is superbly good, you can mix Jan '44 equipment with Jan '45 equipment (SU100s), etc.

>e.g. Lee is the best tank
Yeah, Lee lists really characterised the Soviet meta. Oh wait.
>mixing Jan 44 and Jan 45
That's getting a bit exacting considering that FoW takes a generally related tone to that sort of pedantry, in favour of more choice.

Lee-based Tankovy is the most effective incarnation of the list. LL Shermans are next best. Notice neither are actual Soviet-made vehicles, which is part of FOW's Soviet problem.

> a bit exacting

Things a year apart in service date is not "a bit exacting", it is simply wrong when compared to the standards other nations are held to. Effective? Sure: historical? No.

>is the most effective
Opinions. Either way, a Lee based list isn't that common.
>exacting
Sure it is.
>standards of other nations
Hardly. They're as much of a dogs breakfast most of the time. Look at MW. Panthers next to StuG As if you're not careful.

I'm only an armchair historian, but it's painfully difficult to find detailed information about Soviet dispositions if you can't read Russian. You're often better off reading the German account to figure out what was involved in a particular attach. It's a little surprising given that Soviet forces were less ad hoc and more centralized.

How are late war Brits? Their infantry looks good, but I'm more interested in mechanized infantry or maybe tanks. Their motorized infantry look like they come in tiny platoons... that doesn't work, does it? Or if I wanted to go Cromwell heavy, would I be better off using Road to Rome or one of the Western Front books?

They're one of the largest factions. They've got everything.

The motorised platoons aren't particularly impressive, but they're decent value for their size. There's also motor rifles, which are very similar to regular infantry platoons.

Cromwell's are great. Market Garden has some excellent lists. There's also Nachtjager.

Brit motor has issues because of the small platoon size and lack of usable infantry AT. Cromwells are pretty good and it's fun to zip around the board with such fast tanks. Market Garden, Overlord, and Nachtjager are the books you want for them.

Their infantry AT isn't the problem, they've got plenty. Brits have never been hard up against tanks. It's the platoon size that fucks them, not the equipment.

I can't agree with that. One PIAT per platoon, when the Germans and US can have multiple Bazookas, Panzerfausts, and Panzerschrecks, just doesn't cut it.

And there was actually a review of the available Cromwell lists two threads ago:
When the archive on that dies I can repost it if people want me to.

Especially when the one PIAT is so much worse than the 10pt immortal Panzerfaust the germans get so easily. The PIAT's TA 4 is so much worse than TA 6 it's not even funny. Americans at least get multiple bazookas.

Thanks! I don't play FoW yet, just got excited after seeing a game of TANKS and decided I would want to eventually do more with the Cromwells that I will be getting.

Yeah, the Germans have incredibly good organic AT. Doesn't mean a tank platoon has an easy time of it with Brits.
If you're relying on your organic stuff to turn the tanks, you done goofed.

so far, my unit of 4 has done absolutely bumfuck nothing. Their armor is made out of tissues so in 3 games they just got mauled before their first shots, and the 2 games in which they weren't they shot a couple of bases of inf and some armored cars, and then died.

If you want to force company morale, they are about the best you can do past playing a Militia list. Only thing that's more squish is Katyusha's, and those don't need direct LOS.

no, he means plastic cossacks please. There are currently no plastic cavalry in BF's assortment whatever.

PIAT is still better then the PTRD, which gives you a mighty tank assault 3! I've shot 9 PTRD teams at some panzergrens and one kfz died. Their AT+FP is so shit you literally only take them to bulk out Strelkovy for QoQ ever.

Tachankas, maybe? Horse-drawn machine gun carts?

I wouldn't expect four to do much. That's the problem, you need a swarm.

They do volley fire, however. So a (dirt cheap) company of them can produce a lot of hits. 81mm Mortars are my preferred for those small man-pack villey fire gun teams, even though they don't attach to companies.

The PTRD are essentially an EW weapon, so it's not really surprising they can't stand up to fausts or schrecks.
Oth they're dirt cheap, so I still like to take them.

Even in Razvedki or Foward Detachment lists, I've had a platoon of 5 earn it's worth time and again. Use them mostly as a throw away, or to hang out in cover in a spot. You have to be a little ballsy, or cautious with them, depending upon your opponent. Obviously you don't go sending a platoon of them straight at a rapid-firing Tiger. But a platoon of 5 can engage an 88 with extra crew from a tree line, and save you from losing a more valuable tank or 3.

Also if you're just going to grab a single company of Light SPA to add to a Tankovy, the SU-122 should probably be the first choice unless you really just want to use the SU-76s.

New player here. I'm confused as to what TANKS is. Is it a separate game with separate rules? Is there a pdf?

It is a separate game from Gale Force Nine using Battlefront's plastic tank minis.

It's basically an X-wing style game using tanks from WWII.

I think the rules are on the GF9 website.

Yes and yes. Officially (not sure why) it's by Gale Force 9, though the designers are from the BF design studio. It plays a little like X-Wing, and it uses all of the WWII tanks that come in plastic. Apparently it's partially based on Fury as well (the movie, based on a real tank and its crew).

Remember the Flames of Tanks rules? They were garbage. This actually looks like a fun game.

tanks.gf9games.com//Portals/0/all_images/TANKS/TANKS-Rulebook-ForDownload.pdf

>This actually looks like a fun game.
It not only looks fun, it IS fun (well, from my limited experience of 2 games).

So just the tanks from FoW are compatible with TANKS? Do they have to be plastic?

It's WW2. Noone has a copyright on shermans, you would be fine with any and all 15mm/1:100 scale tanks you can find.

The tanks officially released so far, however, correspond 1:1 with the tanks Battlefront have released in plastic, so these are the only ones with stats (though you could perhaps extrapolate suitable stats for others).

I think they will only sell plastic tanks because you often need modeling experience to deal with their resin/metal kits (their metal casting sucks). This is geared towards less experienced wargamers.

But yes, you can use any 15mm tanks you have. The difficulty is that you need a card for each tank you have, with its stats and a damage track (you can use dry erase markers on the official cards). The starter box comes with one card for every kind of tank that currently has rules (you can use them with tanks you already own), but if you need more, there’s no easy way to get them. They won’t sell cards by themselves; there’s no money in it for them.

And tanks that haven’t been released in plastic don’t have rules yet. It’s not hard to come up with initiative/attack/defense/damage points for them, but it’s a little tougher to come up with a fair points value.

You also get a small number of upgrade cards with each tank. They add a lot to the game, imo.

I've been interested into getting into FoW and/or another WW2 game with good rules (mind you I play 40k so I'm not setting the bar very hig) but I'm not sure there's a community near me. What do?

Any chance someone made a scan of all the cards?

The game's new, wait a bit. The price is pretty reasonably anyway, so there won't be as much impetus to get them scanned. And it's nice how you can actually draw on them and wipe them clean.

If I could find the damn things I was planning on buying one of each, sending the cards to someone with a scanner, and getting the whole setup to our database. Having a ready access to copies of the cards would allow anyone to play with ease. Why the hell these morons arent selling the cards is beyond me. Many people own all the tanks they need and would gladly buy the cards separately, myself especially.

The problem is I cant find the fucking things.

Also, I may be able to find a good scanner as I'm going to college this fall. Im not sure what photoscanfag uses but if its just an ordinary old scanner I could do it myself.

It’s only just starting to hit stores, and I think the British and Soviet expansions are at least a month away.

I can’t see the business case for selling cards separately, not with all the non-BF plastic tanks on the market.

I may be late to the game here, but all the prices for the Team Yankee stuff are on BF's online store.

Looks like the Leopard 2's and Marder's will be out in plastic, but the Leopard 1's will surprisingly be in resin, if price is any indication.

Dress up in an SS-Waffen uniform and wave a FoW sign on a street corner to attract new players.

Or try to get your local gaming store to push TANKS as a gateway game to FoW.

I know, but it annoys me that I own 10 StuG's, all I'll ever need, but in order to play this game I'd have to buy more StuG's that I would never be able to use.

I would gladly buy all the cards if they were available but with tanks I'm gonna have to do something weird like buy them then turn around and sell the models on sprue somewhere if I want all the legit cards I would need

I thought the starter set came with 2 shermans and a panther.

StuG is one of the expansions

I do own panthers though so my point stands

It's not a waste if you buy them and paint them completely differently - like black with a neon green outline!

But yeah, I get what you mean. They might eventually - BF always starts with a limited release in case a new system doesn't take off. Problem is, they're in the business of selling models, not being a rewards program.

As long as you're not playing in official events you can just copy the StuG card included in the starter set and use sleeves to mark damage points. Probably worth buying that set for the movement template and counters; I've tried playing games with home-printed counters before and they're too flat to be easy to pick up, or too time-consuming to add depth to.

The starter set also comes with one card for every tank currently in the game.

The StuG box also comes with a StuG card and a few others.

The starter does indeed provide cards for all the tanks that currently have rules.

Also, there's no requirement to actually use a card per tank.
In fact, the starter kit comes with damage markers for your tanks so you don't have to use a dry-erase marker.

Awesome, that settles it - buy the starter, use your own tanks. Go nuts on the paint schemes for the tanks that are forced upon you when you buy the game.

Oh, well nvm then, its all good.

I'm actually planning to buy some decal paper and put Saunders decals on my Shermans.

Nice. Paint the Panther pink like that team that the university team had beaten when they're first introduced in GuP: der Film!

(Or play it safe and get a Kuromorimine decal.)