Warhammer 40k General

Vespids.

> Legit good units in shitty codexes

I'm starting to believe this kind of thinking is a trap.

>units have become cheaper over the years and army size has swollen from skirmish to company level
>You clearly haven't seen a lot of the armies on the table in todays times then.

???

> Posts the bingo card
> Claiming that bingofag is ruining the thread
You really were dropped on your head, weren't you?

>he doesn't know about superheavies

I've see a lot of armies on the table that number less than twenty actual units and in some cases less than seven at the 2000 point level.

That doesn't make any sense and I don't know what you're talking about faggot, give me those dubs. I'll put them to better use.

Tempestus Scions

That's not an army.

Noise and Plague Marines.

Thousand Sons are much better than people think they are, too.

>every game in 40k is now all superfriends and superheavies because the internet told me so

as somebody who actually plays the game, here's a secret: people field other lists too

Imperial Cults and Militia, Double-CAD at 1850 points

> Force Commander: 85
- Cult Horde
> Force Commander: 85
- Cult Horde

12x 50-man Inducted Levy Squads: 100 points per squad

That's a grand total of SIX HUNDRED AND TWO(602) models with Fearless/Zealot

With 480 points left to spend on anything else for support.

>plague memes
>good

opinion descarted. they're literally just slightly harder to kill bolter marines with an extra special weapon for absurd points cost, how about no.

Except superfriends is dead.
I play the game and I encounter superheavies on a semi-regular basis. Fuck, it doesn't even need to be those, the player can just buy more tanks or something.

As somebody who actually plays the game, here's a secret: people field other armies than infantry spam too.

>Why doesn't everyone just play smaller points so its easier to netlist?

All the people that demand to play at 1500-1850 have the same bullshit that makes their army cheesey.

>How come people want to use the most of their collection and have fully kitted lists with no majoy flaws?

"Sure hope I can bring this Imperial Knight to a 1500pt game so it can take my opponent 2+ turns to kill IF he is prepared for it."

>Why do people want to field a huge army once in a while?

So it feels like they are actually playing an army and not a unit that wouldnt even fill a company.

We play 3000pts on a 6x4 table, after that we do 8x4 sometimes.

>they're literally just slightly harder to kill bolter marines with an extra special weapon for absurd points cost,

And Defensive Grenades and Poisoned (2+) melee weapons, too. Don't forget that.

I personally think Noise Marines are better, but then again I value utility over raw durability.

I agree with the TS and Noise. You just need to send them against the proper targets. Plagues.. eh, not entirely sold.

How can it be a trap?

would it be good at 140 points?

They can also have highly upgraded squads and regular units as well.

In the case of some like Tau, Grey Knights and Heresy armies, I rarely see them wanting for room on the board.

Different guy. But while under 20 can happen in list, though more often there are another 10+ models hiding in transports, under seven at 2000 pts is massive superheat spam. Well outside the norm.

Try poisoned 4+ CCWs. Their melee weapons suck. And defensive grenades are useless because nobody does melee anymore.

>poisoned 4+

You're right, my bad. I'm a little drunk so bear with me.

>And defensive grenades are useless because nobody does melee anymore.

In your meta, mabye.

All I know is, as a person who runs Noise Marines frequently against Plague Marines, they ain't nothing to fuck with. They're not super-killy and not invincible, but they're still pretty solid units.

It's a start but IMO it should be 130 with the extra mouthgun being 20. They ain't that durable and have BS3. They should also be able to be squadron'D

Even at 1500, Battle Companies will routinely put a dozen or more Rhino sized vehicles on the board.

At anything higher than 1500, I routinely have 100 Pink Horrors swarmed throughout my deployment zone, and I'll usually add 20+ models after my first psychic phase. Shit's ridiculous.

>How can it be a trap?

It can be subjective as to whether or not a unit is "shit".

Warbosses, seriously.
85 points minimum for an IC with 4 S10 ap2 attacks with WS5.

that would make them by far the best dreadnought in the game, essentially

but I guess since dreads are shit that's more of an argument against other dreads than an argument against improving the forgefiend

Not in the shitty codexes. What do Orks have going for them but Warbikers, Mek Gunz and lootas? Those are legit good units in an otherwise atrocity of a codex.

Plague Marines are only slightly more durable than regular marines against anti-MEQ weapons. Noise Marines are way to expensive as anything other than MSU Blastmaster squads.

Thousand Sons are garbage through and through. 30PPM MEQ's that die just as easy to bolter fire and have their effectiveness gutted by any form of cover. Plague Marines point for point are superior for hunting MEQ's, the only thing Thousand Sons can even pretend to be okay at.
These are always stupid. It's just people making retarded claims that mediocre units are good because they're in shit codexes.
>How can it be a trap?
Because nobody ever posts good units.

Is it, though? A dread is versatile as fuck with multiple variants and weapon options to suit most roles. A Forgefiend is a one trick pony with a choice of 2 weapons only. A balanced unit is by definition given something great but also take away something great in equal measures.

Dreads have versatility and potential, Fiends have the narrow use but cheaper cost.

>lootas

Case in point, those are not one of their better units to me.

I guess that's what happens when you play in a meta of literally nothing but tau players.

I'd rather is go to like 150, but gain some sort of anti-air ability. Maybe give it "Augury Daemons" or some such and let it choose an ability once a turn from a list of like Skyfire, Interceptor, and -1 Cover Saves.

Interceptor Ectoplasmafiends would make a hell of a deterrent against drop pod lists just slagging everything turn one.

Give them the ability to run and shoot (and viceversa) and i'll take them everyday of the week.

At least not to be just a Fearless MoS marine statswise. Boring.

I'd rather they just remove Noise Marines (and Plague Marines and Berzerkers) and then roll all of their stuff into the Mark itself.

Have MoS improve initiative and allow run and gun and/or run and charge. Have MoK improve attacks and grant furious charge. Have MoN improve Toughness and Feel no Pain. Then add in wargear unlocked by Marks. Boom, now you can have Noise Marine Havocs with quad Blastmasters or Berzerker Raptors jetting across the field.

I can make a list that has 52 models at 7000 points.

What units can Eldar take that have "Interceptor"?

They are the prime example of random unreliable power. Roll 3 shots turn on and/or above average to hit rolls and they can devastate an enemy unit, giving you a nice swing for the game.
Go the opposite and they feel so weak. The variablity is just huge.

Orks vehicles. Give them to almost any other codex and they would be op, with Orks they are crap.

>Fiends have the narrow use but cheaper cost.

Forgefiends are literally just funny looking dreadnoughts with daemon rules like 5++, daemonforge, and IWND, which is probably the "logic" behind making it cost so much. Fleet is useless on a Forgefiend. The problem is a matter of scale: once a walker becomes near 200 points, it probably isn't worth it no matter how good the armament due to survivability concerns when it has a low armor value like AV12. So making it cost 130 would make it comparable to a dread, except it has much better guns.

The argument could be made that all dreads need a buff but that's another discussion.

i just got this small leather measuring tape. Its 50 inches long so I think thats more than enough for a warhammer game
I was thinking of adding a detail into it. any suggestions. It'll probably have to be something simple since the only tools i have is a torch and wire to brand with

What models are these?

Also, not sure if they're yours, but I really like the paint. Especially the green dude on the far left.

Too much imho. No way to differentiate the truly extreme versions of long term warp exposer.

And quad blast masters?

Now if we you backed that back a half step and gave the special marines extras I'd be down.

Say MoS let you take a couple of the noise bolters as special weapons. And do something about the salvo range problem for them. Movies marines all have those base, and can take replace heavy weapons with blastmasters and flamers with noise masters.

Berserkers all get chain axes with ap4 and rending. Etc

Could work.
I'll personally do the other way around, by simply remove the Marks.
I never like them, i prefer to have fluffy detachments.

The idea of Marks giving the same bonuses to Raptors and Obliterators sounds so wrong to me.

> Once a walker becomes near 200 points, it probably isn't worth it
> It probably isn't worth it

Captain Valentine says Hi. He would like you to know that he's 255 points, and earns back his points on every game he's played in.

Posted at the very end of the last thread. Let's try one more time.

So I fixed/broke/whatever Sisters of Battle. There's a lot less inane and unnecessary shit in here than the other WIP fandexes. Let me know what you guys think.

>todo: Add Repressor (same as FW plus Assault Ramp), Add a flyer, Fix Repentia AoF, Throw everything out and start over to make it not look like complete fucking ass

drive.google.com/open?id=0B85e0VhuwajQRTRDQ1J4MTJtb1E

What a mess.

>forgeworld abomination with completely different stats

that things is dreadnought in name only, I was speaking more of dreadnoughts as what you could call "DEQ", which means something like AV12 walker, WS4 4, 3HP, and meh tier ranged weapon options + low attacks characteristic

Marks give a unit-specific bonus and access to god-specific armouries. For example, Havocs with Mark of Khorne may get their guns shoot at +1S, Slaanesh an extra shot, Nurgle conferring Ignores Cover while Tzeentch gives them Blast.

But the mark also gives them access to the armouries, so a Tzeentchian Havoc team may take Inferno Bolts for their bolt weaponry. Nurgle can buy them something that gives them Stealth or Shrouded etc.

The marks would have a different effect for each unit it is given to, but the armouries are general.

Not mine.

I have a good amount of Oldhammers, but it's currently being painted from either me or a propainter.

Those are the first Chaos Marines minis (Chaos Renegades as they were called back there). 1990/1991.

Well for me the problem with Lootas is they often aren't around long enough to do anything of note and some times not around long enough to have even fired a shot before they're falling back or destroyed entirely.

>all dreads need a buff
Was +2 attacks still not enough? In the next few weeks I'll probably be purchasing a DC dread and have it rampage like a metric ton of angry "fuck you" across the battlefield stomping out my friend's sadly useless CSM army.

Old picture where I had just brought valentine out of the strip. I haven't bothered to take a new picture at all recently.

AV13/12/11, 3 HP, WS4, BS5.

It's a Contemptor Equivalent. Higher statline(Either WS or BS), and higher front and rear armour. Really the shitty options is a fault of codexes. And it's got the Relic Of The Armoury restriction, so only one per army.

That was just BA&SW dreadnoughts playing catch-up to the space marine standard. I'm sure when they say all dreads they include helbrutes, deff dreads, etc. in that category as well.

What do you guys think of Sly Marbo?

At first I thought the different marks for each unit would be too much to handle but now I realise you could just put it on the unit.

Would be too much to combine with my idea of having the different types of csm, warband legions renegades, be present as separate buyable options.

That could probably be handed by something like AoD, with different detachments, formations etc.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

What about Kans then?

I've heard those are in the category of "Ork Dreadnoughts" some how.

E**c for the win

Ah that's a good point

doesn't exist as far as the tabletop is concerned

>new chaos codex is announced next year with new edition
>new model line contains a special box set of chaos space marines as a modern remake of those RT era renegades

I own 7 dreadnoughts, I fucking love the +2 attacks. My own group has been arguing too that it applies to Hellbrutes, Deff Dreads, Leviathans, and all other contemptor variants too.

Captain Valentine has at least been enjoying his new 3 attack statline. He just recently got into a fight where I decided to charge him into a squad of Killa Kanz after shooting all guns into them. 4 Attacks on the charge at s6ap- might not seem like much, but they were just enough to finish off a wounded killa kan, so it doesn't charge me and wipe my deredeo out at his own initiative.

'Kanz are 40 points per model in the space 0din dex, and 35 points if you use the Dread Mob from forgeworld. Usually they don't really need the +2 attacks, since that seems pretty ridiculous for a 35/40 point model to have 5 S10 attacks on the charge.

Pretty much yes. Under Marks of Chaos you'd just have "Models with this mark gain the effect listed on their unit entry along with access to the God Armouries" and on the Entry itself just have "All models in this unit may take Mark of Khorne, gaining +1S to their ranged weapons".

Of course it would be a bit of a pain creating varied, useful and hopefully fluffy additions for every unit (since that's at least what... 10 different entries minimum?) but I think it would increase the fun by quite a bit.

S7

Now I have a little regret. Okay, sure they could do with +2 attacks in that regards, since they're just essentially autocannon melee.

youtube.com/watch?v=jCMNWAJiz5Y
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Are those the old stealth suits? Model looks a bit chunky but the design is good and holds up. Take off the sensor/stealth array whatever it is on the back, and you'd think they were Fire Warriors with heavy weapons. (If they had integrated heavy weapons for their squads that is).

That's pretty much what the old XV15 suits were, mate. Before they created the new suits, the old stealths were just Fire Warriors with a different chestpiece/arm protection to carry the burst cannon and a stealth generator on the back.

It's quite cool honestly, cause you see an evolution of the tech, from the old XV15 to the new and current standard XV25 and the XV22 in the middle.

They're also WS2 and have a special rule that forces them to take panic test meaning Orks leadership is SO BAD they have the only vehicles in that game that take (and fail) panic tests.

I think he's pretty cool.

What do you guys think of Captain Catachan?

Yeah, but you play with shitters.

Not unless orkbro is using the Space 0Din fandex. I have been outright refusing to play against ork players unless they use said fandex. It's not fun anymore for me to table an ork player 27 times in a row, usually without even trying to table them. It just fucking happens.

CAPTAIN "I CAN RIP A CARNIFEX IN HALF WITH MY THUMBS" CATACHAN

CAPTAIN "I JUGGLE GREATER BARKING TOADS" CATACHAN

CAPTAIN "I BLEW UP A TITAN BY POINTING AT IT AND SAYING BANG" CATACHAN.

To add insult on top of injury, they're vehicles take a panic test even when they're near a Stompa which makes normal Grots fearless.

That being said if they can get enough hits to land in melee they can be quite effective against Tanks and Monstrous Creatures (preferably with no Invulnerable Save) alike.

>renegades
Fuck off. Chaos Space Marines already has enough ground to cover just trying to cover Space Marines fallen to Chaos. It doesn't need non-Chaos worshipping speshul snowflake groups as well.

They're not getting into melee.

user, Sly is Captian Catachan.

Raptors. Khorne: Hammer of Wrath gains blast. Nurgle: Hammer of wrath gains poisoned. Slaanesh: Hammer of wrath unsaved wounds are deducted from the overall Ld of the unit until the end of the next turn. Tzeentch: Hammer of Wrath unsaved wounds are added to a roll of D6. On a 5+, the enemy cannot fight back this turn.

I wonder what the next IG codex will be like.

I hope they don't nerf my tanks.

They'll probably nerf my tanks :(

Do you play with the proper amount of terrain? A proper table has 4 large pieces of Line of Sight blocking terrain, one in each corner where the Dawn of War and Hammer & Anvil deployments intersect. As well as 50% area terrain.

In such a deployment, a Deredeo can lane himself, where he can claim a section of the board as his firing lane for the main guns, and then cover another section out of LOS with his missiles. Only opponents in his limited firing lane can return fire.

On the other hand, an opponent could also go AROUND said firing lanes, taking only the limited damage from S6ap3 missiles. Or just go slower and take the routes through area terrain.

Nearly every bit of cheese in the game can be solved with a properly setup table. You really should consider it, so as to stop tau players from shooting your models "Through the reflection of the tears of a sparrow, between a pinhole in the cardboard terrain that only a tiny sliver of my hammerhead can see"

>Sly
>Training anyone

Captain Catachan is a drill instructor user.

but that's part of the lore idiot, although it's hilarious that you're so kukt by GW that you now think in the paradigm they have created where you want things to be as simplistic and dumbed down as possible to minimize the risk of breaking everything horribly. that's really healthy man, I admire the confidence you have in your hobby

As often as people say "X will never get into melee", the board has a habit of turning that into a lie.

>kukt
Jesus Christ.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines already has too many disparate factions that it's trying to represent. It just doesn't have room for representing recently turned renegades with little/no Chaos corruption. Those factions would be better served using Codex: Space Marines with a variant chapter tactic.

>They'll probably nerf my tanks :(
What are they going to do? Make Lemans lose Heavy but still stuck moving 6" without Flat Out? It isn't like we have anything ridiculous like Lemans with Grav. I expect the Wyvern to cost more though.

I want more troops choices, PCS and Veterans is kinda lacking variety, maybe a detachment that isn't point heavy like Cadia.

user, have you ever considered just playing your CSM using the vastly superior Codex: Space Marines? Just pretend you're recently turned traitors that still have Grav-Cannons.

Is there anyway to beat a War Convocation with IG? Or am I totally fucked?

I could potentially ally in some basic Space Marine shit with counts as.

What generally is the War Convo's Weaknesses?

>It just doesn't have room for representing recently turned renegades with little/no Chaos corruption.

*Correction: It does have room. What you really mean to say is that you're not confident GW is capable of pulling it off. The kukt part comes in because you're literally nerfing your own wish list to conform to how retarded GW is, which I find to be humorous. It's like a guy who gets turned down by women even in his dreams.

Killa kans should be 50 pt monstrous creatures. It would make their rules make more sense and they would be a lot better for Orks.

I already do, but I'd rather have an interesting, fluffy codex for playing CHAOS Space Marines.