How would Veeky Forums reboot the Squats?

There could be a some sort of Elite "panzer jaeger" style of unit type, of decently armored Spesh Dworfs, whose role is to escort the armored vehicles of the dworfs.

Exo-Armor? Hearthguard? Squat-shaped Automatons?

Maybe just regular armor, to keep them mobile.
Basically Trenchers, but with bunch of specialist equipment that lets them support tanks well.
Dunno desu.
I am just imagining a bunch of WW2 panzer jäger dwarves right now.

What about the fluff though? It's pretty easy to come up with balanced rules and stats, but I thought the whole reason squats were removed is because they clashed too much with the 40k setting.

>they clashed too much with the 40k setting
Just about everyone in Rouge Trader clashed with the current 40k setting.

The current 40k setting clashes with the current 40k setting.

Well, the fluff ideas from the earlier thread sorta gave a picture of a bunch of stubborn, and bitter asteroid miners + survivors from the Squat homeworlds that got nommed by nids, whose ties to Imperium are extremely strained, both due to the sentiment that the imperium abandoned the Squats to their deaths, as well as from the fact that the Squats do not follow the dogma of cult mechanicus.
There was also some stuff about the Squats actually posessing some simple AI's that they use for history and grudge keeping, as well as having technology that lets them scan and "upload" minds of squats into an electronic form. These uploaded ancestral spirits in turn, operate some of the heavier squat warmachines.

>These uploaded ancestral spirits in turn, operate some of the heavier squat warmachines.
so you can have several generations of a Squat family line operating one tank?

That's really neat actually.

That's the idea.
Of course the uploaded "minds" wouldn't be really 100% correct replicas of their original counterparts, and probably would have their own quirks, and eccentricities.
And Grudges.
One of the ideas was that one of the big reasons the Squats do that whole mind uploading thing is so that Grudges won't be forgotten, and that not even death can stop a Squat from seeing a grudge settled.

>the whole reason

Stop. That was a childishly transparent lie told to cover game developer laziness.
Everyone knows that two studio sculptors got away with producing blatant historicals for their whole GW careers by claiming things like Mongols on steppe ponies "fit the setting" because L@@K: Those are ACTUALLY *laser* lances! PEW PEW! That's grimdark, right?

Oh, these blokes in doorman uniforms? Totes from Far Future planet Mordia dontchaknow.

What? These? The Battle of Stalingrad Rooskies and the cast of ZULU!? Ah yes, to certain primitives they may look a bit like that, but see, they're ACTUALLY regiments from two grimdark far future planets called ...

SHUT IT!

The only people stupid enough to be fooled by the Perrys' bullshit Space Sand Nazi Taliba- er, I mean "Tallarn" fables were in GW management. No one out here in the world believed for a moment that those models weren't all 3-ups for Warmaster Historical.

So, the "whole reason" Space Dwarfs "seemed out of place" in a setting with Space Elfs and Space Knights is bollocks. The tale is self-evidently nonsensical. Squats were squatted because of dev ignorance and apathy.

A potent combo in any publicly-traded company.

I wonder what the Squats would think of the Forge Fathers.

GW wanted 40K to be a serious setting with a proper dramatic tone. There were some jokes and humor but the majority of 40K was grimdark and serious business.

Space biker Dwarfs are not serious. They are not grimdark. They are sillier than the Orks and very goofy. They do not fit in 40K in its current direction.

>Space biker Dwarfs are not serious. They are not grimdark
>They do not fit in 40K in its current direction

That doesn't excuse GW removing them. Nothing prevented them from retooling the squats into fit better into 40k

As the Demiurg.

Yeah in a galaxy of green mushroom men, spoon-headed alien Asians and power armoured space nuns vertically challenged biker miners would have really fucked the setting.

They kinda did. They gave the Tau a ally race that's functionally and thematically space dwarfs (squats). They just didn't bother to expand on them since BFG and a few mentions in the HH series.

GW seems to forgotten the allied alien races part of the Tau fluff.

>allied Tau race
Sorry user, I can't find their Codex among the massive number of Space Marine Codexes.

I've always liked ideas like this.

Make older squats veterans of the imperial army, more strictly regimented, leaders of their army, and younger squats rebellious, having grown up in the chaos of tyranid war, tooling around in biker gangs and fucking shit up.

Make them a kind of post apocalyptic view of their former army, with squats generally distrusting of the Imperium for abandoning them to their doom, and the Imperium's subsequent lack of empathy or recognition of their hardships.

Lots of run down old imperial warmachines, new improvised weaponry made from mining equipment, and young squat biker raiders.

Hey everyone, I added point values to the best of my abilities.

aaaaand I forgot the HQs

How will the Chaos Squats be?

At least post the newer better looking steel warriors. Those old ones look shit.

user from before who added a little input like the Doomseekers.

Thunderer tanks are supposed to be the Metal slugs right?

I'd replace the Mining laser default for a small scale battle cannon.

I think there is too many "Arc and Cutter" weapons

Maybe make the cutting mining weapons slow shot high AP weapons while "Thunder" weapons are solid shot that can spit out tons of lead or hit at high strength.

Also as an addition.

Manned Infantry Artillery like Mortars and howtizers.

Sort of fitting in with the trencher theme.

And seeing as I am brimming with ideas, how about something like a Automaton that provides a %++ bubble around it

If units have a ++ save it adds one on there.

Make it a singular model that cannot joint units, has it's own base 4++ save and 3 wounds or something.

Sort of like a distraction without just beating a combat monster.

Added a 2 shot thunder cannon; 48" S7 Ap4, Heavy2, Blast, Pinning
Borers already have the option to take the Smart Grenade Launcher for 5 points, which can be fired indirectly.
The Electoo Priest already has an ability that buffs invuln saves.

Ah cool enough then.

Still think we need the good ol' Bore Mortar back.

The Squats got squatted because the original designer had a falling out with the other members of the design staff years ago. No one wanted to update their codex / design new minis for them after 2nd edition and they declined in sales until GW scrapped them.

oh, and moved the gun to a turret

Focus on a strong defensive line, both ranged and melee. Their play philosophy should focus on forcing the enemy to smash themselves against the Squat's lines.

The "Doesn't require line of sight, Meltabomb in a mortar shell?" Bore Mortar?

The one that dug a bomb into the ground.

added Bore Mortar, Heavy Graviton Cannon, and Heavy Stake Launcher as part of a weapons team for the Trenchers

Any weapons related to the environment? I think the Squats would like to give their enemies a taste of what they survive on a daily basis.

Perhaps, like the Eldar, the Squats are perfectly aware of Chaos but their solution to the problem is to simply build absolute order to combat absolute chaos.

They convert whole stars and planets and moons into complex geometric shapes made with their alien mathmatics that is anathema to beings of chaos and add them in perfect sequence to the All Home, a massive structure only slightly smaller then Camorrogh.

They toil to maintain this perfection of order although, naturally, there will always be apostates who fall to the lust of chaos and all the eldritch horror shapes and twists that they could can try to imagine.

Given the existence of Chaos Squats. they do know of Chaos.

yeah, the point was to emphasis the alien aspect of space dwarves and give them a niche concept they could work off of. Seeing as most dwarves are depicted as having stuff made with sharp angles and lines why not go the distance and make them really into Super alien Euclidean Geometry?

Ok, Everything should have points values, the weapons are in alphabetical order, the profiles are in alphabetical order by force org slot... I think I'm set to move onto the wargear lists and warlord traits.

Due to low surviving population numbers after the nids and ensuing inbreeding combined with microgravity environments in hollowed out asteroid mine cities, squats are pretty mutated. Smaller than default humans obviously, but also practically crippled in full G. Basically think a deformed fetus with a massive beard stuck in power armor to let it move around where it actually has body weight.

Good idea or not?

Given how the still billions of Eldar don't suffer from much inbreeding in the same Craftsworld, I doubt the Squats should worry about it assuming they even have an entire planet's worth of people.

nah, it was decided in the previous thread that they are deceptively fast and tough for their size due to coming from high gravity worlds.

>tfw you will never get much stronger by training under heavier gravity

GW writers swing back and forth from cartoonish characters to ultra-grimdark. Late eighties universe was silly and a little childish, but that's what really brought me (a child at the time) and all my friends to the table, while the older players (our dads) could focus on the slightly more serious races. Now, everything is so bloody and gruesome, it's not something you could easily pitch to a suburban housewife, while 30-something hardcore players (the bulk of GW's profit margin) continually demand more RIP AND TEAR in the fluff.

I miss Squats, I miss Zoats, I miss the little jokes GW used to put in their codexes, I miss the old-school zany Orks. I still love to play tabletop, but GW's inability to fine-tune balance between armies after 30+ years is a little tiresome.

>more RIP AND TEAR in the fluff
We need some named Spess Dorf characters.

God-Rekt the Doom Slayer. The armies of the Chaos killed his pet bunny-abhuman Felix so he's leading a one-squat divine invasion into the Warp.

Let's compare that to Fire Warriors (carbine).

For one less point a model you get
1 more WS, T, and Ld
6" less of range, 1 less shot, with -2 S, but the ability to deal 2 more hits
No supporting fire
Krak grenade instead of Defensive grenade
Stubborn

This for 1 less ppm than Fire Warriors?

yes. is that a problem? Trying to balance between codices is a fool's errand, since genecult hybrids are superior to orkboyz in every regard and cost the SAME when dividing the points by the number of models.

a standard guardsman costs 4ppm, marine scouts 11. Since the profile is roughly between the two, I simply chose the middle ground.

Didn't mean for it to sound accusatory.

sorry, I've been up for a while. I hope explains the process I used.

What stories based on the Squats can there be? Will some be anywhere near as good as pic related?

Looking good m8.
We should come up with more Daot relics.

hold on a tick, I've got an update to show off.

Relics and Wargear edition

What were the zoats even?

Was 40k ever balanced?

Will the Chaos Squats follow Hashut, the other 4 or Malal?

I wouldn't
Keep them dead or in fantasy. 40k is best when it takes as little as possible from Fantasy (war in Heaven, Tau, Nids, HH)

Lost primarch.

It's not like they could fuck up 40k any more.

>panzer jaeger

Why would "tank hunters" be escorts? Do mean some sort of dismounted infantry? Or actual hunters of tanks with like anti-tank weapons?

so... no feedback on the relics then?

Should the Squats focus more on artillery or infantry?

I'm thinking Maschinen Krieger esthetics for this army. Industrial, even when militarised.

As Ringworld-builders, who no longer trust natural worlds due to past instances with Necrons/Eldar/Chaos Warpfuckery, so most of their civilisation consists of space stations, ringworlds, and ringworlds-under construction..

"Son, if you're goin' to live somewhere, you need to have made it yourself. My Great-Grandpappy's second uncle? He thought like you'e thinkin' now, that worlds just lying around the cosmos could be lived on, support our way of life."

"Yup, but he stopped thinkin' that when the sands erupted, and horrors from an ancient age rampaged across his colony, killing most of 'em. Only got away by climbin' in with the last shipment of Thauxite ore an' guarding it back to our frameworld. Whole experience made him swear the vengence oaths, that did, and we never saw him again."

"Aye, never trust a world that ain't been built by the hands of you and your ancestors. Now, pass that plas-fuzer over, and we'll here no more talk of this 'planet life' nonsense.'

That's a pretty good idea.

...

Some pretty great space-based power armor.

I actually liked the Perry's models, especially their Bretonnian stuff. It was exactly that realism that seemed so refrshingly 'normal' amidst all the lunacy.

Looks good to me man.
I especially like the instant fortress.

When I get some free time and money I want to play an Imperial Guard squat regiment. I figure they will have a special dispensation from the Adeptus Mechanicus in regards to maintaining their vehicles and weapons. Especially since I figure there are several high level Squat members of the AM, no doubt a few Fabricator Generals are originally Squats.

Something like that combined with some art deco elements could look pretty sweet.

What would even be the nature of a squat army?

>Heavy armored close range infantry -shotguns?
>Slow but string war machines piloted by the spirits of squat ancestors preserved in cogitators
>'bikes'that are more akin to armored ATVs with treads and swivel guns in the backseat
>No reliable long range shooting - either close range shoot, close range chop, or artillery with scatter
>Their heavy war machines can project shields to offer them a cover save against shoot armies like tau or eldar

Most serve as the Mechanicus mining arm as the shared appreciation for technology easily brings squat worlds found by explorator fleets into the fold of the cult.

well they are known for their siege engines and advanced vehicles.

a vehicle based army with some heavy infantry would be nice. Like what the skitarii are supposed to be.

Bumb

I tried to reread it, it's easy to forget references, to forget name changes or things like that, but you don't have much of that actually. Also, it has been a while since I played 40k, so some remarks may be off.
> What's the point of miners?
They are generic troops with 12" range weapons and no special rule (beside stubborn)?

> Grudgebearer "relay node" rule refers to nothing
> No reference for "Repair Drone Bay"
> Shielded Compartment
When does this save applies? (Again, been a while...)

> Autoauger's Power drill
What is the point of a close combat weapon on a non-walker vehicle?

Also, crawler and Battlesmith are already existing rules right? Don't remember/language barrier.

Still think they should make a liberal use of Demolition charges! On prospectors and surveyors for example...

The Miners are the cheapest dworf ifantry pretty much.
Maybe they should have move trough cover to indicate the fact that moving in hard terrain (that asteroids and mining tunnels are), comes easily to them.

YAY feedback!
Relay Node: I... forgot to include the rules in the rules section
Repair Drone Bay: Same
Shielded compartment: I'll change the wording to specify when it functions; it's supposed to protect the passengers from things like template weapons which can hit models inside open topped vehicles.
Power Drill: I need to reference it in the Ramming Weapon rules; if destroyed, the vehicle can no longer make use of that rule.
Crawler: is from codex Skitarii; the onager dunewalker. I'll just include the full text in the codex.
Battlesmith: I... don't remember. I'll check
Not a bad idea, I'll add that to their profile.

Okay gents, I have updated the rules in the codex. Now, all we are missing are Warlord traits and Formations (If we want them)

I dunno about warlord traits (as in, I have no clue which would be fitting), but one formation could be a bunch of trenchers, Battlesmith, and a Thunderer, which has rules that let the Squat infantry repair and support the Tank better.

I like that idea. Lol, start collecting box formation

Basically yeah.

>> ironsleet.com/2015/01/17/the-brotherhood-of-steel-story-so-far/

Squat-related, This guy has done some awesome squat conversion for a space marine army.

The Exo-Suits/Terminators are incredible

Field Support Crew
Formation:
1 Guildmaster
1 Trenchers
1 Thunderer
Restrictions: The Guildmaster must join the unit of Trenchers and may not choose to leave it.
Special Rules:
Field Repairs: If the Guildmaster elects to use the Battlesmith special rule on the formation's Thunderer, models from the Trenchers unit may elect to forgo shooting a weapon as well. For each model that does so, add +1 to the result of the Battlesmith roll.

>ironsleet.com/2015/01/17/the-brotherhood-of-steel-story-so-far/
I love that guy's models. He did a pretty excellent conversion job on them.

OK, I've added the warlord traits.

WARLORD TRAITS
1: Unshakeable Will: The warlord and his unit have the Adamantium Will special rule.
2: Ways set in stone: The warlord and his unit have the Fearless special rule.
3: Loremaster: The warlord gains +1T, the Psyker (Mastery Level 1) Special Rule, and generates his powers from the Geokinesis discipline.
4: Tunnel Fighter: The warlord and all units within 6” have the Counter Assault special rule.
5: Forge Tempered: The warlord and his unit are immune to flame and melta weapons.
6: Visions from the Ancestors: Once per phase, you may reroll one failed die roll of your choice.

That's a pretty good formation.
Allows one to keep one's tanks rolling, and forces the player to choose between shooting, or getting more reliable repairs done.

Update 5
Fixed some minor issues
Added warlord traits
did minor cleanup

PDF user here, I will return later. Got an 1850 Chaos army to run for a couple of hours.