Stat these two, Veeky Forums

Being Lancer is suffering.

Except Gregor is the min/maxed character, he's build for pure combat, and can't do anything else. Oberyn, however, was good at lots of shit.

What's really displayed in this fight is that the great houses are just inherently better than everyone else, it's why Oby whoops Gregor so hard at first. However, grr (notice how that looks just like gm) stresses that they're still human, and subject to death. Or getting one's head squished in this case.

>Ser Gregor 'The Mountain that Rides' Clegane
>Fighter(Champion)
>Str 20
>Dex 14
>Con 18
>Int 8
>Wis 10
>Cha 8

>Oberyn 'the Red Viper' Martell
>Rogue(Assassin)
>Str 14
>Dex 18
>Con 14
>Int 12
>Wis 8
>Cha 16

It's what you get for fucking around in a life threatening situation.

Someone you're about to kill isn't going to tell you jack fucking shit, why would he? Just kill the fucker and move on to the next revenge target.

How come the Lannister guard mooks in the background could afford breastplates, but they could never forge an actual breastplate (as opposed to shitty lamellar a spear actually passed through) for Gregor until he became a zombie?

If Gregor was min-maxed, Oberyn was the Mary Sue. Master poisoner, master warrior, educated in foreign lands, high-up noble and of course, he's a bisexual hedonist to round it all off.

Anyway...
ST 22 vs DX 15

Oberyn was arrogant and thought he'd won.
But actually, what he was TRYING to do was get public confirmation from Gregor that Tywin ordered his sister's murder, which basically everyone THINKS is true but nobody has proof of since Gregor has done plenty of atrocities by his lonesome without needing orders.

Publicly admitting that he killed them on Tywin's orders would humiliate House Lannister in front of their entire court.

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I didn't mean to quite you user.

*quote

Fuck, I need to go to bed.

The Lannister's wouldn't pay for a Kingsguard's armour. That would go to the treasury.

Left: Perception 4, Agility 4, Speed 3, Power 6, Forte 6
Right : Perception 6, Agility 6, Speed 6, Power 4, Forte 3

Why the high wisdom for the mountain? Combat-experience?

>The Mountain
Strength 5 (possibly more)
Dex 3
Stam 5
Appearance 2
Manipulation 2
Charisma 1
Perception 2
Int 1
Wits 3

Brawl 3
Athletics 3
Dodge 1
Melee 3
Intimidation 5

Courage 3
Willpower 5

Humanity 1

Merit: Huge

>Red Viper
Strength 3
Dex 5
Stam 3
Appearance 3
Manipulation 4
Charisma 5
Perception 3
Int 3
Wits 4

Brawl 2
Athletics 3
Dodge 4
Melee 4
Performance 3

Courage 4
Willpower 7

Humanity 3

Read the book and say that. He's Cersei level smart (which means middling for plots, high for base cunning, and low for book lernin') and the best fighter in Westeros. Dude machined himself a solid keep and a perfect (for him) life. Even his afterlife is something he would think was METAL (though he'd recognize it as a failure if he was around to see it, he isn't so he doesn't).

Isn't 10 wisdom average? I only play 2.0 AD&D so maybe that has changed.

Fucking Jeanette, why are you so best and why is Troika so dead.

Does anybody at all in GoT have Humanity above 5?
I would even count past characters that are dead now.

4u

It's debated. Some people think 8 is the true average while 10 is the "adventurer average", i.e. exceptional people. But I dunno, it makes very little sense to me that most people have a -1 penalty for every task.

Oberyn never stabbed him through the breastplate in the books, he got him in the joints, under the arm and behind the knee and such

I dunno, humanity is sort of weird when applied to non-vampires anyway and it's based on rather archaic christian values. Unless you live in a first-world country in the 21th century, it's kinda hard to stay above 5. (Do keep in mind that 5 is considered "high" even though the values go up to 10. 10 is like... Jesus-tier.)

It's interesting though, ASOIAF is a pretty good parallel to how VtM politics usually go. Lots of backstabbing, everyone out for themselves and "the great game"/Jyhad.

We shall see how Paradox treats the IP. I can't be much worse than CCP.

Ned? Davos? Robb? Jon?

Well, time to reinstall VTM:B. Thanks guys...

not like that breastplate protected him from anything in the show
its basically tin foil

Has armor ever demonstrably done anything in the Game of Thrones show?

That one time back in Season 1 when Jorah fought a bloodrider?
youtube.com/watch?v=WRYM6B7CTs8

Can't think of many other instances.

>has armor ever done anything in film or television
Ftfy

They're all pretty violent, they can't be above 5.

1st episode of Firefly?

>Jorah gets cut in the cheek
>face still 100% clean afterwards

Breastplates are basically t-shirts right? You can literally wear them all day, and they're just as comfy, form-fitting, and protective as a t-shirt.

Fuck that, my ass looks like a bag of apples

Fuck the breastplate, what the hell happened to his helmet?

Oberyn whacks it off with his spear, I think.

Because despite the costume designers for GoT being marginally better than most working on historical or fantasy dramas they still sometimes fall into the trap of making their characters look like members of a medieval biker gang.

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All the freedom to draw and the Mountain's armour somehow looks MORE than the show's rendition.

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>The Mountain accidentally some hapless bystanders
Was this in the books? Seems kinda silly, unless they were just peasants. Why would peasants be invited to such a high-profile event?

It's the shoulders, I think. And they've made him taller than Halfthor was.

>looks MORE than the show's rendition

Then who was MORE?

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Sorry I was mean to type "retarded" after that

yes, it happens in the book. All of the nobles are up in stands and whatnot, but there's a ring of peasants around the arena.

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Right. Why are the peasants there? Could GRRM just not pass up the opportunity to be edgy and kill some bystanders for shock value?

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I dunno,if i was a peasant with a shitty life i too would try to watch some nobles kill one another.

It's not really that out there for a medieval society to make a big even out of this sort of thing. Admittedly safety was probably a bit better than what's being depicted here, I mean really not even a one-log-high fence around the arena?

Verisimilitude?

Hafthor is 6'9"/395 lbs. Gregor is 7'10"/420 lbs.

Some good reaction image material in this one.

Sure, but would Tywin let you? That's the real question. It's sort of a high profile event and I can't imagine the nobles would want the rabble there to potentially ruin everything.

Sure, but big events are for important people, not the peasantry. I'm not questioning the peasants getting cut up and nobody minding, I'm questioning letting them so close in the first place.

I'm afraid I don't follow.

squat more

That's what I meant?

>I'm afraid I don't follow.
Well, like how said, it'd seem a little SoD-breaking to me if there were no bored peasants wanting to watch two famous nobles (one renown as a brutal murder, the other as a degenerate) try to kill each other.

Even in comic form this is satisfying.

You're right. It should be well dressed burghers being cut up. Proles like that wouldn't get the good seats.

What is the point of having a big organized fight if you dont have plebs to watch it?

>SoD-breaking
What does this mean?

>no bored peasants wanting to watch two famous nobles
That's not the point though, it's more a matter of why they were allowed there in the first place. I have to say I preferred the more exclusive duel in the series on that account. Or if you're gonna allow peasants, at least have a little fence or something to keep them separated. It just seems so primitive for a society like Westeros to not even have basic stuff like that for such a high-profile event.

More to the point, it feels more like GRRM just wanted to go all-out on the edginess and therefore put someone there for the express purpose of portraying how evil and callous The Mountain is, and how shit it is to be a peasant. (As if this wasn't established already.)

That could work. Or just stopping the match if one of the contestants is haphazardly murdering the audience. I know life is cheap in societies like that, but there are still rules to abide dammit.

Fairly certain nobody in charge cared about the plebs in the context of that fight. For Tywin, it was about Tyrion getting fucked. For The Mountain, it was just a standard day at work. For Oberyn, it was about personal revenge.

>7'10"
>420lbs
He's a large fellow.

americans didn't even exist back then

>7'10
So he's basically like the average space marine, right? Probably a bit skinner and with no geneseed speshul powers, but the size seems to match.

Why not have them? Its a public event. Like a hanging. No reason for the nobodies to be there to watch but no one is going to stop them either.

He would make a pretty good chaos knight from fantasy too.

>Davos
>violent

Literally wot.

So...did the big guy die from this?

That and the poison on the spear. He died slow and painfully.
They bring him back as a zombie

>They bring him back as a zombie

And suddenly death was meaningless.

Eventually, but more due to the incredibly deadly poison Oberyn had put on his spear.

It rotted/melted Gregor from the inside out. Took him about two weeks to die.

They sent his skull to Oberyn's family, but there's a good-sized amount of evidence that Cersei's resident Rasputin expy brought him back.

It was extremely painful, but whether he actually died and was brought back or was just badly wounded and needed to heal remains a mystery for us.

m8, humanity 5 is like property damage. If you've ever flipped a table or hacked at someone in a warzone, you're below humanity 5. Humanity is a stupid system.
>Humanity 10 is not having selfish thoughts whatsoever
Literally a thought crime

Because they can interfere with the event? Because they're smelly and unsightly? Because it detracts from the prestige of the event?

Yeah, that's probably a better comparison to be honest.

I think they may have attached a different head to him.

>good-sized amount of evidence
No, it's fucking confirmed at this point, at least in the TV series. Same with Cersei orchestrating Robert's death. It's 100% fucking confirmed.

You can bet CLEGANEBOWL is confirmed too, given how they brought back the Hound and how everyone's talking about it. They can't resist.

>They sent his skull to Oberyn's family,
At least they claimed to do, but the Lannister had plenty misshapen skulls to spare from all the dwarf heads being sent their way from mercenaries who thought they had captured Tyrion.

What the fuck, my text disappeared.

What I wanted to say was that they can interfere with matches, they're smelly and unsightly and they detract from the prestige of the event. Fuck plebs.

>Because they can interfere with the event? Because they're smelly and unsightly? Because it detracts from the prestige of the event?
It is a public trial though. They probably have to let them watch by law.

Also nice sexts? Whats the six equivalent of dubs?

But it was a huge skull, everyone could tell that it'd belonged to Gregor.

And no-one's ever seen Ser Robert Strong ever take his helmet off, or even put the visor up.

Plenty of the Dwarfs had huge heads. Robert Strong hides his face because they don't want people to know it's Gregor.

>public trial
In the context of a medieval society, and especially one that treats its peasants so badly, it makes absolutely zero sense for them to have an open event where you're allowed to just prance about no matter who you are. The "trial" itself seemed to be a closed event, just the duel was out in the open.

But whatever, it doesn't matter. I think this is one of the very few times where I prefer how the show did it. To me, GRRM sorta goes overboard with the "HAHAHA, EVERYTHING SUCKS, EVERYONE DIES AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE AN OUNCE OF DECENCY IN YOU :D:D" thing. Subverting expectations is great, but at some point, the expectations change. (It's especially jarring when certain characters have very obvious plot armor, while everyone else dies at the slightest touch.)

>distinctive SPESS MEHREEN-sized knight Gregor Clegane disappears after a duel
>a few months later, a seemingly random SPESS MEHREEN-sized knight just so happens to follow the King's mother around everywhere
>WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
They're not fooling anyone.

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>"HAHAHA, EVERYTHING SUCKS, EVERYONE DIES AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE AN OUNCE OF DECENCY IN YOU :D:D"
If that were true then Davos really would've been blown to smithereens at the Blackwater, or executed by the Manderlys.

Of course, I reckon he's made it this far because he's the chosen one, but never mind.

The other trial by combat we saw was pretty out in the open as well. Not doing it in front of everybody would make it seem like they were hiding something and having more people to watch makes it that much more of a kick in the nuts. Its not like trial by combat makes any sense anyway, why not let everyone watch it?
Also the mountain is a huge asshole even by game of thrones standards.

thats not even the worst offender, the "swords are made from pouring metal into a mold" made me leave the room...

That actually makes sense for the character. Mace isn't a general, and he isn't a warrior. Randyll Tarly is the one leading The Reach main army into battle, while Mace finds himself a nice keep to lay seige to for a couple years.

Clegane:
Human Fighter 3,
STR 19
DEX 10
CON 20
INT 8
WIS 6
CHA 7

Greatsword, Heavy Steel Shield, Plate armor
Feats: Monkey Grip, Improved Grapple, Power Attack

Oberyon:
Human fighter 5
STR 11
DEX 18
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16

Spear, buckler, breastplate
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Dazzling Display, Improved Feint