Can genocide be Lawful Good?

In DnD's retarded alignment system, genocide is absolutely lawful good, as long as the creatures are evil by nature. Creatures are born that are OBJECTIVELY evil, and killing evil creatures is defined as good.

Life is unfair.

Alignments are shit.

Yes. Good is not nice.

>killing evil creatures is defined as good.
Where?

Yes it can be.

"genocide" against non-human pests would probably be as good as it is now

I mean, it might not nice when you kill a bunch of rodents or insects, but ethically you're in the green, even when you're dumping poison into their dens.

No. If there's even the slightest, slimmest chance of co-habitation, redemption or other form of harmonious living then genocide will eliminate that.

Lawful good is more than just following the laws and being an okay person. It's about seeking to improve the world, even if it seems impossible.

There's a post on...I swear Enworld or some shit, that goes into this. The Socialnomicon, I think it was called. Pretty great read.

dandwiki.com/wiki/Dungeonomicon_(DnD_Other)/Socionomicon

Seriously, it's gold for DMs.

DOMO

Only if it's jews

#GreenLivesMatter

Goblin Slayer is Veeky Forums the character
>autistically hunts down goblins so much that the Guild is forced to promote him to the level of adventurers that hunt dragons
>only lives to hunt gobbos
>never takes off his armor and helmet
>doesn't care about romance
>munchkinned his way to becoming a one man goblin genocide
A real hero and a real human bean.

>Human bean
>Bean
>BEANS
Damnit
Alfabusa got into my mind ''ALIEN BEANS!''
Can't play Dow II for that.

It can, but it really depends.

In Lord of the Rings, Aragorn did his best to wipe out all the orcs because they were fundamentally creatures of evil. They could not be rehabilitated, and every one was a monster. So the wisest king had no choice but to exterminate as many as possible.

It's like - If the good guys were up against a race of demons, it's not morally wrong to wipe them out. Would humanity be worse off if all the Mi-Go or the Deep Ones were wiped out?

I'll point out that in the opening comic, the girl's party members were raped by goblins and her love interest was killed. It was super hot.

I'd say no. Then again, I think D&D's whole approach to alignments is bull.

If you have a race of always evil creatures that simply can't stop being evil then I don't think they'd really count as living beings as such. The Blight and its creatures in Dragon Age are a representation of this category, barely self-aware and not independent beings as we'd define them. Things like the blight, demons etc. are defined by their evil nature, and are not able to function outside of fulfilling their function which is always an evil one. Creatures like that are a-okay to slaughter in my book.

On the other hand, most fantasy races, even traditionally evil ones, are considered actual thinking, sentient beings. Orcs and goblins in D&D are pretty nasty yes, but they are so because their culture has been shaped by enslavement to the dark lord of the day and constant warfare. If given the choice, goblins and orcs (in my interpretation) would be able to make the choice of being good just as well as any elf, human, dwarf or other sentient being could.

Demons are intelligent, however. So are devils. Those things are clearly sentient and capable of making their own choices, their choices are just inimical to us. It only makes sense for us to wipe them out, because their nature is opposed to humanity.

No. Murder is never 'good'.

Killing Evil beings is an objectively Good act, however.

How do you define Evil beings. In a sense, aren't you their Evil being if you consider wholesale slaughter of their species fair game?

Doesn't the old go back and kill Hitler at art school scenario disprove this that would be a "good" murder.

Murder can be good, but only retroactively and it's still murder if the destined monster hadn't yet committed a crime.

sorry, is right by the rules.

I agree with you bruh, but the rules are setup such that a paladin can murder a lot of people and be considered and a swell, upstanding guy.

Genocide is a lil more arguable. Depends on the edition and whether or not orcs/gobs are considered "always evil" races. If not, a good character can't wipe out the whole race on principle. They're at best neutral.

The genocide of demons of course

I cast Detect Evil, and I pray to God. I ask my God, who regularly grants me spells and can be reached by Commune:

"God, we are constantly assaulted by . They have rebuffed all our attempts to make peace. I fear that in this final crusade, annihilation is the only solution."

KILL THEM ALL, MY SON.

"Your wisdom moves my heart, Lord. We shall give them no quarter."

In D&D Good and Evil are as quantifiable as sieverts and voltage.

I chuckled.

evil is not innate.
trial before murder.

>you can correct the path hitler chose
>instead you kill him
thats not the LG way.

well kill with no trial can still be NG so it shouldn't make paladins fall.

A Paladin is meant to be a crusading knight. His job is to fucking kill shit. His very first power is SMITE EVIL.

>KILL THEM ALL, MY SON

This does not sound like a Lawful Good God.

Calm down and go make some supper.

excuse me fa/tg/entlemen. what is the source of OP?

You're trying to argue against a force as fundamental as gravity. I checked, and nope, still Good.

All of you guye who say genocide is a bad thing, just look at bugs for example.
They're fucking vicious creatures who tear shit up and can even take down spaceships with their shit. They only want to kill us and nothing will change that. What good is there in letting them live aside from designing a biological weapons system that can be easily controlled

Goblin Slayer. It starts with rape AND genocide.

Paladins should spread good. There is a reason why their raw combat is lower than a warrior or barbarians. Paladins are to protect and uphold, and their skills are for that as well.

Light Novel. I see. Thx, will give it a try.

Oh it's absolutely the sensible decision to wipe out Orcs, Goblins, Bugs, Demons, Devils, Mindflayers, and the Jews. But it isn't a Good or Virtuous act. That's why morality as a philosophical subject is so contrived.

"if all insects on Earth disappeared, within 50 years all life on Earth would end. If all human beings disappeared from the Earth, within 50 years all forms of life would flourish.”

I should have clarified
Starship troopers bugs

Riiiight. But you still need to A) confirm it is evil and B) be reasonably certain that they have committed serious evil or intend to.

A paladin cannot execute the evil inkeeper in the middle of nowhere who never gave to charity in his life, rips off travelers with nowhere else to go, and kicks his dog. It's gotta be, you know, EVIL evil, not just a lil evil.

An orc child can, by most rulesets, grow up to be a productive member of society. So the paladin's job is to take him to a tolerantish orphanage. Killing them because its safe, easy, and pragmatic is not LG; they punish evildoers, not maybe-someday-might-be-evildoers.

hives are a single creature, eliminating one is not genocide. eliminating one during war isn't murder.

You kill all the bugs in the galaxy

I dunno OP you tell me

Yeah, no, that's 100% evil. Keyword there being INDOCTORNATED.

if there is a single creature left and you kill that creature for the right reasons than its ok even if its technicly a genocide since it isn't a mass murder.

Murder by definition user is the illegal killing of a being. You cannot murder goblins, or any other non-human entity.

Yes.
If dragons are dangerous we'll kill them all
If Demons are dangerous we'll kill them all
If Necromancers are dangerous we'll kill them all

Genocide is extremely common in fantasy setting's, and it's often the good guys who do it.

dangerous != evil
humans are dangerous, lets go on a killing spree.

I have played with this guy or someone inspired by him, and I did not fucking realize that we were doing this until it was all over.

>Killing Evil beings is an objectively Good act
Still waiting on that source.

Then you must be the world's dumbest group.

Killing something because it's a danger to you does not make you good. To orcs, a sect of paladins may be dangerous to them. That doesn't mean they're good if they annihilate them.

In the context of this setting all goblins need to die.

If we were talking about that one webcomic about goblins then some all goblins are actually good guys and humans are evil unless you're a retarded barbarian.

AD&D, back when certain evil beings (orcs and hobgoblins, especially) were always evil and not just aligned evilly.

There were no and could be no good orcs - they were literally always evil.

Evil in AD&D isn't always what a normal person (Without detect evil) would call evil though.
Merchants are evil in AD&D, becasue they're selfish and greedy. In the same way an orc could be desperate and have no choice but to follow the will on the tribe. When given the option it will do good in order to survive, even if it is evil.

Merchants are neutral, though. Being selfish and greedy is being neutral. Evil means you're a right bastard.

But I wasn't talking about the evil races. I was talking about the claim that killing evil beings is a good act in all context. If you can find a source for that, I'll believe you.

Most merchants are if we're being honest.

The thing is that in a D&D setting evil is a real thing. Changing from evil to god is such a dramatic shift that it can kill people and level drain you.
If something is objectively, inherently evil then killing it is a good act.
You have to remember that D&D alignments and rules have no place in the real world. But that setting is designed to be simpler in a sense.

selfishness is not evil as long as it doesn't come on the expense of others.

>If something is objectively, inherently evil then killing it is a good act.
SOURCE
O
U
R
C
E

Also, so when an orc stabs another orc in the throat for a scrap of meat, that's a good act?

Selfishness inherently harms someone other than yourself.
An orc killing another orc is a selfish act, therefore evil.

>An orc killing another orc is a selfish act, therefore evil.
So you admit that in some cases where the motives are selfish, killing an evil creature is not a good act?

>Selfishness inherently harms someone other than yourself.
no it doesn't. it just prevents benefits from thhem, its not the same.

Killing an evil creature for a selfish reason because you have a good goal at the end is CG so it can also be good.
A paladin is the most selfless thing in existence though, so none of their acts are selfish. Unless you aren't playing a paladin correctly.

>Killing an evil creature for a selfish reason because you have a good goal at the end is CG so it can also be good.
What is "a good goal at the end", and how is it compatible with killing for a selfish reason? You said yourself that Good and Evil are objective truths in D&D. So how can the ends possibly justify the means?

That's the thing man, you're looking too far into something that paints the world black and white.
For what it's worth I agree with you, things aren't that way when you think about them.
But it's a fantasy world, and part of that is shrugging off the morality questions of the real world and saying 'good is good and evil is evil'.
Not that there isn't a place at the game table for these questions, the rules are a guideline and you can play however you want and rule what is good and evil as each action happens.
But by the book good and evil are laid out as binary.

If they are always evil race like goblins, killing them is no worse than killing your natural predators who hunt and eat you. It's fine.

>Make them supper!

I think it can only be Lawful Neutral even at its best.

This is international law for the most part, that pic related is talking about

>But by the book good and evil are laid out as binary.
I agree wholeheartedly. I just disagree with where you drew the line. You said that killing an evil creature is a good act. I forced you to concede that this is not always the case. Sometimes killing an evil creature is simply an act of selfishness and not justified. So when can genocide be justified? It's not an act of justice at all, it's an act of prevention. It's utilitarian morality for a system of morality where the rules are set in stone, and as such, makes no sense at all.

Of course, but the genocided would need to have no redeeming quality or potential at all.
Your pic related is not good; genocide of unthinking and exclusively destructive beings like, say, giant radioactively explosive bacteria from hell could be seen as good.

But in the end morality is relative.

You can tell he gamed with one of those guys who forced "m-muh green shortstacks" nonstop.

To be fair you did cause me to trip up. And you are right that it isn't justifiable in any moral way. But then you get into dubious territory, what if your LG god commands you to kill every Orc because they're evil and an insult to creation. That's a good act because the god that defines good said it right? Are you evil for disobeying that which defines us as good? I generally try not to pull the thread since I like the sweater, but I've seen campaigns go there and listening to 4 characters who all have different world views, all of which are different from their real world views gets old after a couple of sessions.

>what if your LG god commands you to kill every Orc because they're evil and an insult to creation.
It's clearly a glabrezu trying to lure you onto the path of wickedness. Detect evil, cleave and smite.

YES

The problem is that the DM dictates what is evil and what isn't, so two different tables would have two different outcomes from the same event.

Good thing I'm a DM then :)

Good thing I'm going to kill all the orcs then.

Well then you're always going to be right about the morality of your setting aren't you?
As someone who doesn't have the imagination to DM I salute you for your efforts.

Stand back Ill show you how its done!
Over the Proverbial ridge!
>WHORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGH
>GHRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
LET THE PROMETHIUM BURN IT TO A CINDER.

Yes.

Not that there are actual rules defining alignments, and thus no reason to even use them in the first place.

Sure it is. If you want a comparison, white in MtG is capable of terrible things to maintain order, law, and whatever they believe is good.

In my interpretation Demons may be intelligent, but their choices are limited because their nature as inherently magical beings makes them incapable of making 'good' choices. A half-demon, like Hellboy whose mother was human, would be able to make a choice and are therefore sentient beings as we normally interpret that.

Do unto others what you would have done unto you.

That depends, how jewish are the targets?

I'm pretty sure jesus would understand the necessity of killing all goblins.

>You asked:
>"Is it OK to kill all Goblins?"

>Jesus Answers:
>"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
>- Matthew 5:10

I think Jesus just said you're a fucking idiot.
askjesus.com/jc/jc.answer?qa=53019

>persecuted for righteousness' sake
Goblins are persecuted because they're a violent pest.

Sometimes Genocide IS the correct answer