Warcraft Lore and RPGs

Wow, someone's triggered. So triggered that user can't even into reading comprehension.

I didn't say I was deciding anything. Just saying that, although I like both, Horde fans can be very difficult.

>That and I'm not a huge lore person so it would be nearly impossible for me to DM
I hopped on the WoW train late, so there's a lot of lore I'm not as intimately familiar with as my players. So I bullshit.
>It's an alternate universe.
>If you notice any significant differences from the main universe, feel free to mention them.
>Details may be different intentionally.
And my players aren't butthurt retards, so they're comfortable accepting this.

My experience tends to be the opposite, Horde players generally being the older more mature ones and Alliance being filled with the 12-year-olds who think they're cool for swearing at you and following you around while you're leveling a toon.

But maybe we just surround ourselves with the good players in our respective factions and the only people we see on the opposing side are the ones everyone else despises.

Having played - and actively playing - both factions, I can say that both sides have a similar ratio of bros to douchebags. Alliance tends to be more populated, though, so you get more douche by volume.

I did intentionally choose medium population servers that didn't have a reputation for being clusterfucks, though.

Completely unrelated, but cross-realm dungeon runs have demonstrated that Moonguard tanks are great at their job, but kind of weird. Where as Moonguard healers and DPS are usually fucktards.

Maybe you guys have just had better experiences than me. When I played Horde more actively, I was in a guild filled with teenagers talking about how cool it'll be when they turn 21 and are able to drink or whatever.

And when I went to see The Force Awakens and the Warcraft trailer showed, some sperg shouted out, "FOR THE HORDE!" in a theater.

Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of good Horde experiences too and have known plenty of good Horde fans, and I'm aware the sperglords are a minority, but they are a very loud minority.

Tell me about it.

I like to interpret Dark Iron law as such --- if you can survive the crucible that is the Ring of Law, you are in the right.

All the while, Shadowforge City is assuredly supporting the Undermarket economy with the purchase, exporting and importing of exotic beasts, "cattle" and prisoners who attempt to infiltrate lands under the rightful dominion of His grace, Emperor Dagran Thaurissan.

Along with the Ring of Law been overseen by High Justice Grimstone, fair and just in his judgement, the entry fees of the common dwarves and percentage of profits made from gambling further funds the grand coffers of the Dark Iron Clan.

Its publicly acceptable to be a Horde fanboy. Not so for the Alliance.

Don't forget that the entertainment is great for morale. Until everyone gets butchered by pissed off adventurers.

>- if you can survive the crucible that is the Ring of Law, you are in the right.

So basically might makes right? Do whatever you want as long as you can survive a trial by combat?

-- Or if you have the most money, or the greatest cunning. And beyond being an endurance run, there's no way that both Grimstone and the audience won't be stacking the odds against you -- handicapping you, throwing trash into the arena -- whatever they can to get things in their favor

I always loved the aesthetics of the Dark Iron Dwarves and the Black Rock Horde.

the whole Area + the Black Rock itself has always been my favourite part in Warcraft lore.

Dark irons are the best dorfs

Butterflies and hillsdorfs need not apply

>tfw Azeroth's Blackrock Clan has probably finally been wiped out now that WoD is over and we've cleared NewBRS a billion times by now

I assume a sizeable amount followed Eitrigg and Varok Saurfang into the new Horde senpai

While that perspective works fine with things like movies, books, shows, movies, single-player games, etc., for a Massively Multiplayer Online game on the level of World of Warcraft? Then yes, I'd say for that fanbase definitely matters.

some of them probably, but the only clan that gets to exist in the New Horde is the Warsong

Don't think of race first, think of the type of character you'd like to role play as. Then, think what race what fit that character idea's personality best.

Though race surely affects character, a Tauren or Pandaren is more likely to be wise and contemplative and seek a peaceful solution than an Orc or Forsaken, for instance, but it shouldn't be what we want to play as, but who. Personality's more important to me, though it might differ for a bunch of IC snobby Elves or distrusting Orcs.

What type of person do you want to play as? What race fits that type of person best?

and the frostwolves?
And the rageroar?
And the dragonmaw clan?
The burning blade survivors?

Jaina X Sylvanus x Arthas

Pre-deadification... or post deadification.

Thoughts?

living sylvanas HOTS skin makes my dick diamonds

The Frostwolves currently live in Alterac.

The Dragonmaw were prominently featured in Cata and aligned themselves with Deathwing's cult. They were mostly dug into old Dwarven cities in Khaz Modan which they'd conquered in the Second War.

The Burning Blade have been scattered to the wind. They exist as a loosely organized cult (in Vanilla they were roughly analogous to the Alliance's Defias Gang). For a long time they had a hold in the underbelly of Orgrimmar, but they got pushed out by Twilight cultists in Mists of Pandaria when Garrosh went off the deep end.

I dunno about the Rageroar. I've honestly not heard of them before.

The Shattered Hand have become a group of mishmashed members of the Horde, and aren't used extensively enough

And you see nothing of the Bleeding Hollow, and Kilrogg's son hasn't been used at any extent.

the dragonmaw joined the Horde in cata

and then they joined Garrosh and the Iron Horde in MoP/WoD and only are only friendly in Twilight Highland because Cata takes place in the past now

We had two for the alliance guys at our screening.. I'm pretty sure both factions have all those people in equal measure.

>At least with demon hunters, they aren't as heavily tied to one particular character as the DKs to Arthas.

>Illidan: The class
>Not heavily tied to one particular character.

Yeah, Demon Hunters are even more tied to the one character, because at least W2 era Death Knights were a thing, whereas all Demon Hunters are descended from Illidan. Hell, the Demon Hunter initiation rituals is literally just copying what happened to Illidan.

What I think he meant to say though, is that the DK storyline is heavily tied to Arthas in a way DHs aren't to Illidan. The Scourge, as badass as they were, were only a problem for a part of one planet. The Legion are a problem for the entire universe, it's hard to conclusively beat them.

>Frostwolves
Yes
>Rageroar
Never heard of them. Certainly not one of the original main Horde clans
>Dragonmaw
Loyal to Garrosh, joined Iron Horde in WoD
>Burning Blade survivors
Isn't Mankrik the last one?

There's also Shattered Hand which acts like Horde version of SI:7, but that's about it.

Eh, there's probably a good handful of Dragonmaw that stayed loyal to the Horde even afte Zaela led them into Garrosh's camp. There's more than a few Blackrocks who stayed loyal to the PC Horde through the years. Although supposedly a lot of Blackrocks lumped in with Garrosh as well, but I think those were recent acquisitions who had come in since we killed Rend, not ones who had stayed loyal all through and were never part of Ren'ds "Dark Horde," like Eitrigg.

Realistically, no clan probably came out of the True Horde with clean hands. Garrosh's message touched a lot of the disaffected youth. All orcs are gonna carry that weight unless they took up arms to stop it.

the biggest problem with the True Horde is that they were wasted on only being the villains of a single content patch of one expansion. Such a cool faction, but they appear out of nowhere and then are immediately killed off. And you can say the Iron Horde is a continuation, but they don't have any of the cool Pandaren stuff the True Horde did

>Implying we're not stealing a ship and going to other worlds
>Ships of death knights getting into random brawls for shit and giggles

It'd be like a mixture of mexicans, gypsies and muslim illegal immigrants.

To be fair, they were built up going back to Wrath.

All throughout the Horde questlines in Wrath you're mainly acting as an agent of Saurfang as Second-in-Command of the Warsong Offensive, trying to keep that half of the war effort in one piece because Garrosh's hand-picked officers and elites are blood-thirsty glory hounds who don't much care for logistics or morale or treaties or properly supporting the Hand of Vengeance or ANYTHING other than winning HONOR on the battlefield. Things like the power struggle in Grizzly Hills between the two sisters and the ambush of the Alliance force on the far side the Wrathgate among others are indicative of the philosophy Garrosh is spreading even back then, and would eventually become the True Horde. The might-makes-right philsopophy that rejects almost all forms of morality, tinged with Orc Supremacism but really more about elevating a mythological idealistic warrior culture personified by the white-washed Grom Hellscream of legend. It just so happens Orcs fit most easily but others can earn their way in by showing their merit, which is why Garrosh tends to be OK with Tauren and Goblins, who tend to be worth more than their shortcomings to his ideals.

Anyway, Cataclysm showed more than its share of shadows of the True Horde as well, a lot of the fires you put out on the front lines of the 4th War, such as in the Barrens or the Gilnean boarder, are directly traced to Garrosh's forces and orders putting other Horde forces in danger for the benefit of dedicated loyalists and those with a vested interest in intensifying the war.

Its true they only "unmask," so to speak in the Seige patch, but really the True Horde was there for years and we'd been fighting them all along.

true, the seeds of the True Horde were planted as soon as Garrosh was given power, but they only coalesced when Garrosh discovered Y'shaarj's heart and unleashed it. Imagine how cool a zone or two with orcish enemies augmented by mantid and other Old God minion auxiliaries would have been

the Rageroar are a total joke of a clan that shows up in a couple Alliance quests in Barrens until their chieftain gets bushwhacked. Yeah, they were such a nonentity that they were actually a Horde faction that lost to the Alliance in Cataclysm.

Well, we did get the war effort leading up Seige, helping Vol'jin secure Durotar and taking the fight to the True Horde's forces in the Barrens. On that note, seeing that under Garrosh's tenure the Barrens had become a fully settled province, with many new townships and resource extraction operations filling places that had once been only empty frontier with a few military watchposts, was cool.

That said, it would have been nice to see the True Horde forces out in the world making more use of the stuff they were hiding down in their secret bunker. But I guess that would have theoretically weakened the impact of discovering that stuff. The idea of the second half of the raid after Nazgrim was basically supposed to be Warcraft Wolfenstein, were we plumb the depths of the Secret Lab and see what the world is going to face (and inevitably lose to) if we don't stop it here and now.

Jaina and Sylvanus is fine with me. Arthas and Jaina.

But why sylvanus and arthas? is it a form of hate rape?

we do know that Arthas "tortured" Sylvanas before killing her, but I doubt it was sexual, being dead is sort of a boner killer

>tfw you return and see this thread is here.
braise sigmar.

>they are a guy and a gril
>they hate each other
>they are hot

Not that guy, but the fact that their personalities are similar plays a part imo.

Shame there's nothing worth reading with them though.

>tfw Cho'gall was criminally underused in WoD and now that he's died 4 times he probably won't come back

I wanted to do that so bad in BC. All those cosmos-related Netherstorm quests, the tempest keep, the ethereal, the goblin spacerocket, the questline dealing with dimensional invaders, plus the fact you literally saw planets with life on the sky. Travelling to other worlds always felt like its within an arms reach and going to happen any second now.

Then she shit brown and green of wotlk disappointed me greatly after the colorful space adventures.

Lots of people disliked TBC for being "too sci-fi", but I also really liked the weird cosmic adventure stuff (all the levelling gear being a mismatch of neon colours I could live without, though).
Apparently they were originally planning to let you visit other worlds (that's what those "mini dark portals" found in multiple zones were for), but cut it very early in the development.

He was pretty great in Cata though.

Really the Shadow Council should have been a friendly faction in WoD and be one of the Local Powers we unite with to take down the Iron Horde. Just because Gul'dan and his personal cronies were hell bent on fulfilling the Legion's designs doesn't mean EVERY member of the Council has to be evil, especially when Grom has made it his mission to cleanse all Warlocks at Garrosh's advice.

One zone and a little bit of Magitech is Too Much Scifi? People are dumb.

>The Scourge, as badass as they were, were only a problem for a part of one planet
For now.

The scourge were an Azeroth problem simply because they did not have easy access to an exit vector.

>People are dumb.
It's sad it took you so long to realize this.

It's more that it kind of broke the established setting to introduce space traveling goat not-demons.

Draenei remain, hands down, the single worst decision Blizzard made.

But Shadow Council are Gul'dan's personal cronies and serving the Burning Legion is their whole point. Sure, some may have ideas like using the demons for their own goals, but they are insane or stupid if they believe they are anything better than Legion's slaves.

If people's reactions to TBC, the zombie invasion, Vashj'ir and Pandaria are anything to go by, the average WoW player hates everything that isn't bland mush.

>average WoW player
No, just the loudest ones.

>the zombie invasion
it still hurts user

They were just a tiny side effect of the necromantic power of dreadlords. I like to imagine they employed other scourges, hordes, shadow councils and other patsies in subverting and destroying a million other worlds.

>TBC
Garbage. Bent lore over a barrel, had uninteresting zones with uninteresting plots. It also took players out of the familiar world of Azeroth too early, with too much left unfinished on Azeroth, essentially blowing the outlands wad too early. To put something in perspective. The old gods are rising, the lich king is growing ever bolder, and there are still unknown threats in the world yet to reveal themselves.

BETTER GO TO OUTLAND TO DEAL WITH THINGS THAT AREN'T IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS!

>the zombie invasion
The reason the zombie invasion was hated was because it disrupted play. Conceptually, it was really cool, but it was really frustrating when you were trying to do shit and NOPE, ZOMBIE INVASION.

This is because WoW developed itself into being a game of habits, schedules and ritual. You have a daily checklist of things to do, and a weekly checklist of things to do. And the invasion fucked with this schedule.

>Vashj'ir
Underwater levels, without fail, are terrible.

>Pandaria
Pandraia's biggest sin was that it was a whole lot of polish for very little substance.

And yet, the legion did seemed concerned with getting that back under control or seeing them destroyed.

I'm not saying the scourge could have just rolled up and killed the Legion. But what I would imagine is that they are seen as an exponentially dangerous threat.

Scourge stays on Azeroth, it's fine. Scourge gets the ability to start moving to other worlds? Increasingly dangerous, as their numbers will continue to grow, and they will be able to add stranger and more diverse creatures to their roster of merciless killing machines.

>the broken remains of a world with fissures and brambles and encroaching demons while energy is arcing above it
>a mysterious marsh of gigantic glowing mushrooms and the sea-steampunk creations of snakemen
>an ancient forest turned into a zone-sized crypt by a huge explosion and restless ghosts escaping from their eternal resting place
>a zone where islands fly, elements form everyhwere on their own and the energy emanating from a mountain sized diamond spaceship is so strong it attracts souls and carves ley lines into the nearby fields
>a zone where ogres get drunk and dragons get rekt
>a zone that shows what would a legion world look like, sullen green furnace glow everywhere, demons fighting everything even themselves and the wreckage of a dead world with history echoing

But yeah nah, lets have an Ice Zone, Desert Zone, Jungle Zone and Forest Zone every expansion pack ever.

>The shadow council shouldn't be evil!

What the fuck is that?

I'd say Pandaria's biggest sin was that it should've been rotated 180 degrees to make more sense, but that's just me.

>This is because WoW developed itself into being a game of habits, schedules and ritual.
except all the habits and rituals were in Outland. The only time you had to worry about getting zombie'd if you didn't want was when you went to the auction house

>uninteresting zones with uninteresting plots
If fucking OUTLAND is boring to you, what the hell does that make Northrend? Any one of TBC's zones (except maybe Blade's Edge) easily beats anything that came after.
>The old gods are rising
They really weren't, C'thun was a withered shadow and the Twilight's Hammer was a fringe threat at most. The only significant threat at the time was the sillithid, and they were scattered by Saurfang and company.
>the lich king is growing ever bolder
The players had literally just taken down Naxxramas and captured Kel'thuzad's phylactery, the Scourge was on the defensive in the Eastern Kingdoms.
>BETTER GO TO OUTLAND TO DEAL WITH THINGS THAT AREN'T IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS!
This would be true, except for the part where THERE WERE DEMONS POURING OUT OF THE PORTAL.

>This is because WoW developed itself into being a game of habits, schedules and ritual. You have a daily checklist of things to do, and a weekly checklist of things to do.
Yeah, but that's like 50% of what's made the game boring.

>Underwater levels, without fail, are terrible.
Shit opinion.

>Pandraia's biggest sin was that it was a whole lot of polish for very little substance.
I'd agree with this, but that's a problem with what they've done with the game in general. As it was, Pandaria at least attempted to add some flavour back into the game with the treasures and the expanded cooking and the extra lore objects.

I think that was more because they don't like their "employees" running away than the Scourge was any threat to them.

See: turning Ner'zhul into Lich King for trying to get away from Legion, Mannoroth re-corrupting orcs after they decided they don't want to do anything with Legion anymore (and hidden cultists trying to subvert Thrall's Horde after Hyjal (original Ragefire Chasm), last patch of WoD, Kil'jaeden luring Kael'thas from Illidan after he failed to destroy Lich King twice...)

Kil'jaedan is a vengeful cunt

B-but blue space-waifus!

>Underwater levels, without fail, are terrible.
Sadly true. Vash'ir is one of the most beutiful zones in the game, and I do love underwater stuff, but damn if it wasn't a pain in the ass to play in, especially as a pet class (pet pathfinding and underwater movement don't mix very well).

This is shitposting.

It was pretty annoying if you were levelling a character, and couldn't turn in any quests because all the questgivers were getting repeatedly ganked by zombies as soon as they respawned.

Really, making questgivers (and auctionhosue NCPs as well, although that wouldn't really be a problem these days when you also have AH in other places than faction capitals, so even if the Stormwind AH NPCs got zombie-ganked you could just use the ones and Shattrath) immune to zombie-gank would've fixed pretty much all the complaints.

>Draenei remain, hands down, the single worst decision Blizzard made.
No, pic related is. Draenei at least gave us very fappable blue goat waifus.

>waaah I cant mindlessly grind and spam the AH for a week and I'm forced to participate in a world event waaaaaah

These people killed MMOs as a genre.

Nice strawman green text.

>Arthas/Kel'thuzad/Anub'arak

TFW Sylvanas missed out on one of the greatest bromances in all of Warcraft.

>tfw it gets more and more implied that Anub'arak doesn't actually like Arthas and is forced to help him by Ner'zhul

Its not implied, it was stated outright several times that he hates him and only serves because he is forced to.

Wasn't that pretty obvious from the get go. One of the first conversations he has with Arthas ends with him saying "'agreed' implies I had a choice".

On the other hand, I like to believe that KT actually gained the same level of freedom as Sylvanas and the Forsaken when the Lich King's power weakened, but chose to keep serving him out of his own free will.

Kelly always served the lich king willingly even before he became a lich.

except when he saw people getting scourged for the first time, but getting threatened with death by shade warmed him up to the idea of being a right hand

I don't know much about novels/WoW, but I know in Warcraft 3 it feels a lot like the whole Lich King thing is KT's grand scheme, and like he does actually want to see Arthas succeed as a terrifying undead king.

you don't know what's happening to illidan now are you?

Oh god don't tell me it's actually true.

Getting ass raped by Maiev?

vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/87/Kindred.unknown04.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20151001020535

This is capeshit tier resurrection and assrape. I want dead characters STAY DEAD.

Is that supposed to be Illidan? Doesn't sound like him.

If there is one thing I dislike about the direction that warcraft has taken in recent years it's the shifting of the big bad

In wc3 it was clear that the legion and Sargeras were the big bads, but it kinda feels as if from the end stages of vanilla onward the "old gods vs titans" plotline has been slowly wedged into that, to the point where Sargeras is now almost sympathetic

Now I'm not saying this is entirely terrible, I kinda like the whole titan thing (especially as an explanation for the humans, gnomes and dwarves who originally had very little in the way of creation myths), but it makes my inner autist cringe when they introduce things into important places like "what we're fighting against" as clumsily as they have

Except titans were slowly built up ingame through hidden vaults, ancient messages, their creations and the like. Same with Old Gods and silithid. Then suddenly we get a book with "void lord" and they are the biggest baddest evulz on the block

I would say the Old Gods taking over as the BBEG really started in Wrath. Sure, you fight an Old God in vanilla, but there really wasn't enough lore about them to make them really qualify as BBEG. All we knew that they were nasty eldritch things that got beaten by the Titans and would probably fuck shit up if they got free. Powerful and dangerous, yes, but mostly a footnote in the lore.
Plus TBC had the Legion as the BBEG, even if we mostly fought againt Illidan.

Wrath had an Old God as a prominent raid boss again (though not as the final raid), and revealed a lot more lore about them, making their nature and the threat they pose more obvious. Cataclysm revolves heavily around them, with the Twilight's Hammer and Deathwing being the main villains, and the chronicle book pretty much retcons them (or rather the newly-introduced Void Gods, which are pretty much "Old Gods ++") into the BBEG of the Warcraft universe, with the Legion being formed to fight them (because the only way to stop the Void Lords from breaking into reality and wiping out all life is...to set reality aflame and wipe out all life? I don't think Sargeras thought this through).

Exactly my point, if much more concise (i'm very tired at the moment)

Its called a joke, user.

Basically Sargeras wants to destroy the universe, and remake it in a manner that would make it immune to the influence of the void lords .

I think sargeras is more focused on "scour everything that isn't a titan so that the old gods/void lords can't corrupt the new titans"

It makes sense, given what we have seen, if a bit too drastic. There are impurities and on one side sargeras just wanted a clean slate, while the titans wanted to give the corrupted biologicals a chance.

The big bads don't want to wipe out life, but make it evil, while sargeras would rather see it burn to ash than risk a single titan getting tentacle raped

It's also confusing in that "Void lords" are already a thing. They're those armored voidwalkers. Warlocks can get one as a pet if they take the talent that upgrades their demons into more powerful ones (void lord replaces the standard voidwalker pet). There's plenty of them in Outland and in some areas of Draenor, too. They don't really strike me much as BBEG material, really.

Void Lords are irrelevant, it's the Dark Titan they are trying to make that is the threat.

Actually thise guys are "aspects" or "shards" of the real voidlords

In the first zone of BC where you see the rifts the voidlords are what is on the other side of those rifts, massive entities made of nothingness that swallow and corrupt everything, kinda like the armored warlock pets but as big as a whole universe and powerful enough that even a 0.000001% of their power was strong enough to suck the ethereals' planet and their physical forms out of existance with such violence that they became the blobs of formless energy we see today

Which reminds me, I would really like an ethereal PC race

Some naaru kidnaps you and tells you how evil you were for killing illidan who was conveniently just about to kill the Burning legion.