Warhammer 40k General

>Rules databases
mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>FAQ’s and Errata (outdated but official)
games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata

>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s).
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf

>Forgeworld Book index
dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index

> The Black Library(Stay the fuck away from the clowns)
mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q!c4pGAJDb

> Space 0Din's glorious work
dropbox.com/s/lsx27fo3rq2x7tk/Codex - Orks 7th Edition Update [Space Odin](2016).pdf?dl=0

Other urls found in this thread:

discord.gg/FpVfNKp
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I'm a new player looking to get into CSM. I know the internet says they're bad but whatever.

question: are daemon princes really that good compared to chaos lords and such? a daemon with upgrades can be over 300 points, but for that same price I can have 2 tricked out chaos lords, or a lord and a sorcerer, etc.

realistically, is the damage output on a daemon prince better than two lords or some other combination? I feel like it might be better to have two lords because they can be two places at once, spread my points out. the DP is WS 9 though and it seems like AP2 at initiative is a big deal. why should I take a daemon prince when a chaos lord ballin out of control is less than 200 points?

The trick with princes is they are fast, tough and powerful enough to justify loading up on wargear.

Lords/Sorcs can also be killy, but all your wargear means nothing when a single 15 point krak missile from a guardsman deletes him, that mean he also has to buy a bodyguard, wargear for them, mobility for them, soon your paying the same as a prince, while a 16 point krak missile isn't guaranteed to ruin them, a cheap battlecannon is.

I play CSM, Sorcerers are the best HQ point for point. They're relatively cheap too.

Lads, went to Warhammer world over the weekend, we noticed this on a (see picture) sorry for the huge file size.

Is GW 3D printing or is this just a terrible cast?

It's a fingerpint in too thick primer.

Looks like a painting fuckup... Frankly, with a yellow scheme I'm not gonna be as harsh on them as any other colour. Yellow is a bitch.

As is white. Majority white models tend to look fuck awful.

>I know the internet says they're bad but whatever.
Do you know why the internet says they're bad? I'll give you a hint, it's not because they're secretly really powerful. It's because they fucking suck.
>question: are daemon princes really that good compared to chaos lords and such?
A Daemon Prince can take Mastery Levels to provide support when not in combat and also might sometimes make it into combat so that it can at least pretend to be worth its 300+ point cost. A Lord will durdle around your side of the board doing nothing but dying. A Nurgle Biker Lord will sometimes make it into close combat, where it will fail to recuperate it's point cost.

Because it went unnoticed in the last thread and I'm a massive attention whore:

A while ago I said I'd have a go at making an ork fandex, here's what I have so far.
Just wanted some feedback on the power levels involved. I'm also unused to using the following:

- orkanaut
- mek gunz
- flyers
- deffkoptas
- stompa

...so any pointers you guys have as to the strong and weak points of these units would be appreciated.

The aim is to streamline the codex whilst also providing more options for customising units (e.g. skarboyz), which is kind of paradoxical, so let me know how I did.

How many tanks in 1500 points is too many?

trying to start fighting in larger point matches but don't want to end up in the inevitable OSC/riptide rut, right now this is what im thinking of, sort of an armored defensive line setup

HQ - 100pts
Darkstrider

Elites - 128 pts
2x double flamer crisis suits
2x double flamer crisis suits

Troops - 137 pts
6x rifle FW + missile pod
7x rifle FW + missile pod

Heavy Support - 930 pts
1x Ion cannon + longstrike, 2x plasma cannon hammerheads, all with disruption pods
1x Missilepod hammerhead, 2x plasma cannon hammerheads, all with disruption pods

Fortifications
1x gunrig
2x shieldlines attached to it

Darkstrider fires the gunrig to ID T6 with normal shot or ID T4s with submunitions blast

Hammerheads all have BS5, the missilepod has skyfire and longstrike gives the ioncannon BS6 for rerolling gets hot

i wanted to get stealth teams in the elite slots but couldnt afford it, so i went with flamer deepstrikes

Yes they 3d print their prototypes now. Then they paint the prototypes for early advertising and boxart. It's very apparent on the new containers if you look at the boxart, they 3dprinted and made all the adverts then sent the files to China to make the plastic. That's why they're shit quality together with the new bases and those realmgate terrains.

Wait, shit, got mixed up between darkstrider and longstrike. Never mind.

That seems like one of those common sense things there isn't actually a rule for.

Yeah there is, the rules for gun emplacements in the main rulebook (p.109) state they can only be fired by non-vehicles.

But I fucked up anyway as for some reason I thought darkstrider was the hammerhead ace character.

>I thought darkstrider was the hammerhead ace character.

christ imagine a BS5 hammerhead that ignores 1T of the target, it would essentially be the monster hunter version of longstrike

Don't discard Chaos Lords altogether.
There are a few combination that can be pretty good.

Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords and Sorcerers are all fine solution if you give them the right tools.

They are still not as good and have the same tools as other HQ from other factions, and don't even let me start on Dark Apostle and Warpsmiths.

I just bought all the dawn of war games. Are there any good resources on strategy? What mods would you recommend?

So far, I'm really enjoying Sisters of Battle, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.

The majority of factions can't work miracles with HQ's, they're more a flashy pointsink tax than a point of optimisation.

Chaos actually have a passably decent HQ section, it's the overall list that's garbage.

Paging the moron who thinks eldar should only number in the hundreds of thousands. I wasn't done with you.

Come on man. If the eldar numbered in the hundreds of thousands they wouldn't even be a faction. There would probably be hive gangs that were more numerous. Single cities on a planet covered in cities would be more populated. There are probably tons of alien races that number greater than hundreds of thousands throughout the universe. Even if the eldar were only in the tens of billions for the entire race, that still puts them at only the level of population of a single city on a single planet in a single system of the imperium. In a universe where a few people having an orgy with some purple tentacles and a succubus is enough for the Inquisition to nuke the everliving shit out of the entire planet and turn it to dust, killing trillions without flinching, yeah, the eldar are fucking tiny and a dying race, even at a few billion.

But it's okay for the Galaxy to only have 1 million space marines?

That Mark for 15 point is still bullshit though (which is fine if you unlock the cult troops, but it's not always true).

Also no access to reliable AP2 at initiative for Chaos Lords (unless you are a bloodfag of course, but that's a disadvantage on his own) and no 2+ unless terminator or supplements is really heavy for something that should be a killing machine in melee.
Not even some rending.

Sorcerers with full perils from Daemonology is bullshit too.

All of them can be good, but they lack the sauce.

(not that user, but) 40k authors are all sorts of fucked up when it comes to scale and numbers.
Its much easier to look at things like space marines and eldar and just say "there's not that many of them" without assigning any actual numbers.

also, its more realistic for space marines considering they are the best of the best top of the line multi-billion dollar super soldiers.
Thats like saying you should have as many elite special forces as you do... Germans, or something

Eldar are bio-engineered soldiers as well, their focus merely lies in psychic powers instead of being biologically superior, althought they are superior to normal humans.

Orkanaut needs to be a Superheavy Assault Vehicle

Mek Gunz are fine

Dakkajet needs Strafing Run if using DftS supplement (maybe even if it not), all the other flyers are unsalvageable garbage.

Kustom Stompa needs to come back and start at 400 points for 2xTCCW.

While true, it's only really the Aspect Warriors that can match Astartes in combat (the two being somewhat comparable on average), having them be a minority within a population of a few hundred thousand Guardians, who routinely get pasted by Marines, leaves them with virtually no direct military power at all, even less than they already have.

Well, yes and no. Considering that the space Marines are supposed to be the most elite top tier special forces of the imperium, and the average guardsman or manufactorum laborer will never ever see a space marine in his entire life, yes, it actually is more realistic than an entire race. I mean in those numbers for eldar you're including all the "civilians". With space Marines, the nominal number is literally just the combat troops. It doesnt factor in all the space ship crews and support crews and serfs and such.

Yeah no, Space Marines have extremely low numbers and are completely overworked, are the most elite special forces avaliable... But that on a galactic scale.

1 million is far too low even by the most conservative measure, if you want them to -actually have an impact on the Galaxy at all-.

The whole point is they're usually reserved for the most important battles. Space Marines can't hold the line or fight wars for shit, and they aren't spread out over the galaxy evenly at all. What you do is bring a few thousand or more whenever this one planet really needs saving. Most of them don't fight in any old random-ass war in the middle of nowhere unless they've got nothing better to do.

That being said, a million is still a staggeringly low number.

Those paints need thinned.

Even ignoring the miscast areas, you can clearly see brushmarks on the white and yellow armour.

GW, get your shit together.

Skull Cannon

[Y/N]?

dakkajet has strafing run, doesn't it?

>That being said, a million is still a staggeringly low number.

This. There's no real point quoting -why- there aren't many marines about at me, I know all the factors at hand. They're the most popular and focused on faction, anyone with basic knowledge of the lore knows this shit.

What I'm saying is that -even bearing all that in mind-, their numbers are too low to do what they supposedly do.

When did they lose chaos armour?

>Let's try posting in the correct thread why the fuck not
It's like GW have realised this too, which is why more recently there's been events with dozens of chapters piling in.

Y

I always saw Marines as the middle ground between an assassination squad and a full blown invasion.

Walking shock and awe, to tear out the heart of an enemy, or dig one out of an position to valuable to simply glass.

>their numbers are too low to do what they supposedly do
why? It's only ever a problem when you have the faction of the month kill "a million billion" space marines to show how very cool and powerful they are.

In all other cases it's just space marines being really good at shooting things until they die, to an almost comical degree.

Maybe?

It's more-or-less the same idea, they do it on a planetary scale in teams, but that's virtually their role in most engagements because they're so outnumbered in most cases they could rack up a 100-1 bodycount (which would get increasingly difficult without support) and they'd still lose.

Think about Earth, think about how many soldiers Earth has and how many have fought in its wars. Now think about how more soldiers have fought over half a continent on Earth than there are Marines in existence. Now divide that number of Marines by 10,000 to get your typical Astartes strike force. It'll fuck shit up wherever it lands, maybe a dozen times throughout the battle, but unless the opponent has a case of tactical retardation or some plot-necessary weakness that a few Marines can go and punch, those operations aren't going to do as much as you'd think in the long term.

>Think about Earth
again, why?

These aren't supposed to be realistic soldiers.

>they could rack up a 100-1 bodycount (which would get increasingly difficult without support) and they'd still lose
how about 500-1

I'm an initiate to the lore, but for some reason I thought the standard size of a legion was a thousand strong. It seems off to compare them to ww2: a single space marine could probably have won ww2 with some difficulty, if they had logistical support from whatever country they were fighting for.

With that in mind, a thousand different armies seems appropriately big.

Still an easy loss for most Astartes vs. engagements. They'd put a good dent into the opponent's force before being slaughtered to the man. Remember that even in real life we have deployed millions of soldiers to fight over continents (outnumbering a full Chapter 1,000-1 for one continent of troops) and 40k usually likes to up the scale.

Not at all, but I still like a good bit of verisimilitude. Any individual Astartes short story usually isn't that bad because it focuses on some crucial objective, which is what they should be used for. It just gets silly when Space Marines start making a big difference outside of absolutely key objectives with the numbers they have. Multiplying their numbers straight-up by 10 does something to lessen the issue and still keep a sense of battle-demigodhood.

>but I still like a good bit of verisimilitude.
>40k
>verisimiltude

Imagine Space Marines are Captain America during WW2.

It's not too far off, really: Augmented supersoldier who does some key special ops work, but can't win the war alone, is outnumbered by a ludicrous factor by regular soldiers, even by regular special ops. Almost more useful for propaganda and morale impact than his actual actions.

16.1 million Americans fought in world war 1.

If we assume a quadrillion guardsmen, probably a completely lowballed number, then proportionately you would need 62.1 million space marines to equal one Captain America.

Now bear in mind Captain America is from the Marvel universe, one of the few settings about even more ludicrous in tone than 40k.

>Multiplying their numbers straight-up by 10 does something to lessen the issue
the issue of what, them being too good at their jobs?

them being TOO superhuman?

Unless they can be in a hundred places at once, being good can only get them so far.

Not the best setting for it, I know, but without it we don't have much to judge the lore by beyond how well it tickles everyone's factional bias, in terms of how capable each individual faction is. We all know that some of the worst lore out there has come from complete bias for one faction or another, rather than grounding it in some sense of verisimilitude and canon-consistency.

Not at all, write each individual paragraph the same, have that one Marine kill the entire renegade Guardsman squad in a few seconds with nothing left but a slight lasburn on the side of his shoulder pad. This doesn't change the grand scheme of things much, even if there's ten times their number, provided the writers actually think about Astartes uses in war, and the war itself (the whole concept of kill the enemy leader out of nowhere or secure the plot-point is usually a pretty lazy excuse that just has some supposedly competent commander momentarily become a drooling retard to excuse the narrative.)

>Fought in world war 1

That's a typo btw, sorry.

...

>supposedly competent commander momentarily become a drooling retard

Every time the Imperium has to fight the Tau this happens to the Imperial commanders. 40k lore is about the heroes and villains, not about the wars.

You're in luck! That's a key theme of the setting. There aren't enough space marines to keep the Imperium from declining, despite their ludicrous strength.

Bumping their numbers up by an order of magnitude is pointless.

Except the allies won the war handily (and had well over 16 million troops, because countries other than America exist), while the imperium is currently losing the war.

Like, cap and marines are tangentially similar, but the universes they reside in are WILDLY different.

What do you mean judge the lore? Are you talking power levels?

The way I see it, every faction is generally balanced such that any one winning over the other is a roughly equal possibility. They all have amazing strengths, and crippling weaknesses.

The weird bits of biased lore to me make sense when you view them from the perspectives of unreliable narrators. Imperial propaganda may play up the grey knights to those who know about them, or play down the threat of the tyranids to those who know about them. This in turn means those instances of the tyranids or tau surpassing the expectations makes them more surprising.

Indeed, and yet almost nobody is happy about the times when the Imperial commanders become retarded. We're obviously referring more to a "should," than "is."

While I have absolutely no problem in the narratives being about the protagonists and antagonists, it really does seem strange when they don't correct errors in logic that have virtually no bearing on the story at all, hell, with some effort you could still have all that same tasty lore and combat, only replace a few keywords/plot-devices for more realistic things, keep the rest and jigger the numbers to make more sense.

There, no more retarded commanders or plot-excuses, same ass-kicking heroes and more reason for the dedicated fans to discuss lore that, right now, can virtually be ended with "writer bias/lack of knowledge/contradiction," almost every time.

I'm not saying it makes perfect sense for space Marines either. But it makes a little bit more sense. Space Marines, compared to the regular planetary defence forces and guard, are even more elite and special than like, seal team six or whoever. I mean consider that even the regular imperial guard regiments are more "elite" than the PDFs and reserved and such.

In the fluff, even sending like 10 space Marines to a warzone is a huge deal and can turn the tide of the war

Again, doesn't make perfect sense, but more than the eldar being only like 200k

It's a pretty big job though, no? Especially since a lot of the more technical lore appears in books like Imperial Armour which I doubt is read by many of the player base. I sort of gave up on the lore for the moment, it really grinds my gears that Marines do not at all come close to achieving what the lore states they do on the regular and the excuse of their deeds being exaggerated by retelling is getting old. If they did do some sort of stupid massive retcon with 8th edition, they need to firmly establish what Marine are actually capable of and maybe have their in game stats reflect that.

Yeah, it's more-or-less too late to change 40k now without a huge portion of the fanbase getting angry or upset over it, or just genuinely not being happy with the changes.

It's here to stay, good and bad, even if a few of the problems are obvious they're still an integral part of the setting.

>not reply of the Imperium edition
You had one job.

There is a point of view where literally any lore is possible because the universe is so large and the record keeping of the imperium would he be such a disaster that two planets on opposite sides of the galaxy are extremely unlikely to even be aware of similar events. Like there are probably worlds that haven't even heard of say, the Armageddon wars or whatever. Or worlds that think the imperium lost Armageddon. Or worlds that think the emperor is still fully alive. Or worlds that think space Marines or eldar don't even exist.

You can pretty much justify any fluff.

4th edition.

The same time we lost everything cool.

>it really grinds my gears that Marines do not at all come close to achieving what the lore states they do on the regular
that's just a concession for the tabletop game

Much like ork or tyranid players don't actually need thousands of miniatures to play an average match.

>that's just a concession for the tabletop game
I play Necrons and what is this?

>Much like ork or tyranid players don't actually need thousands of miniatures to play an average match.
No wonder everyone and their dog is eating up Ork and Nidfags. They need more boyz/nids.

It's like how necrons don't win every game by blowing up the star the planet is on.

numbers are irrelevant, they just need a less dogshit codex

Or making the planets surface crack open to reveal 5 million warriors with instant repair systems.

Conscripts should be a Swarm like Scarabs or Nurglins

>Numbers don't mater if they had a book with better numbers.

Quantity over quality?

A book with better words would be more fitting for chaos and orks.

numbers (of miniatures) don't matter if they had a book with better (rules) numbers

Doesn't work in games with points limits. In more narrative scenarios they can cover their bases with just infinitely respawning mooks.

Guard user here answer is you can never have too many tanks.

Just take an armored interdiction cadre and have nothing but 9 hammerheads and 3 skyrays.

If i were guard it would be a simple answer but i'm tau
compared to leman russ, we trade 1 front AV for BS5 and BS6 on our tanks, compared to your BS3, our tanks are slightly cheaper aswell

Don't forget, ap1 trumps ap2. Woe be the vanquisher, forever the point sink that it be.

Is there any space marine codex?

tau have tanks?

Jokes aside, the main difference is guard tanks mount actually heavy ordinance. Railgun's alright, but I'd usually rather have a battlecannon. Ion Cannon's a poor man's executioner, too.

I need a good name for a Keeper of Secrets for a campaign.

Any Slaaneshi willing to help?

I've read some names on the wikis but they are so different between each others that i can't find a common template.

would be somewhat hilarious in kill missions, but lack of obsec is kinda shitty in objective although thanks to forgeworld the tau can deepstrike immobile vehicles with AV11/11/11 and obsec for cheap

>he main difference is guard tanks mount actually heavy ordinance

sure, but what we lack in ordinance options we make up for with retarded accuracy even without markerlights, we also have the option of buying those somewhat overpriced turrets from forgeworld to become plasma rifle spammers that have 4x the range and +1S

Lewdfondle Swordpulse. The old Realms of Chaos books would give you something like that.

Mr. Krabs
>Hive him a greater reward
>He gets a FnP
>Can you feel it MR. Krabs?

just sayin'. Hammerheads and Skyrays aren't bad, but they're not amazing either.

Look up the "movie space Marines" list. It's old as fuck, like 4th edition or something. And probably would be shit compared to all the knights and riptides and wraithshits and whatever else is around now. But it was basically a list where a regular tactical marine was like 100 points so an army would be a tactical squad and like a razorback

Months late to the announcement but fuck it I was bored.

Oh Emperor you insane bastard.

>Look up the "movie space Marines" list.
it was a tongue in cheek set of rules, m8

You say that but I think Tau are just butthurt they don't have the plasma spam of the Executioner or the ULTRA PENETRATION of the vanquisher. Besides who needs a high ballistic skill when you shoot blast weapons?

Rolled 1 + 1 (1d6 + 1)

Let's see then.

Do the Necrons and the Eldar need to "eat" something to keep fighting? What about their weapons and vehicles, do they some kind of supplies, ammunition, fuel, power packs...?

and, in case you don't feel like reading it

Like, shit's a wargame. People want to collect armies. The company wants people to collect armies.

That's why you don't have marines (and indeed many other factions) acting and performing exactly as they do in the fluff.

Obviously you have seen a vanquisher no scope a Riptide from across the map sir. That AP2 is also pretty delicious for sniping battlesuits.

But... that's not what i wrote. : /

discord.gg/FpVfNKp

Nice work.

The real problem here is that it's entirely unclear whether this scenario is correct.

>A signle space marine could probably have won ww2

There is some fluff in which a few SM take down an entire feral world, but that hardly count (I mean one fucking tank could probably have defeated the entire zulu army, tech disparity isn't a great case). There are other times when an entire legion was needed to subdue some planetary system (that they didn't want to just exterminatus). But then you look at other factions' fluff and sometimes they destroy entire chapters and their homeworlds with a strike force (Alaitoc getting revenge on the guys who blew up Idharae, for example; here we have both "Space Marine chapters can kill a whole craftworld" and "a fraction of one craftworld can kill a whole chapter").

GW is not and never has been internally consistent. These days I like to think of 40k numbers the same way I think of numbers in medieval manuscripts:

>"And then the Saracens showed up with 1 million soldiers, and another 1 million on their way" = "And then a whole bunch of Saracens showed up and we were outnumbered"

>"And the Space Marines killed billions of Eldar at once and went on to destroy 1 trillion orks the next day" = "And the Space Marines slaughtered some elves and pretty much desolated their forces, then went on to kill orks until they ran out of ammo"

The D6 rolls are only for the "true" names, which is going to be unintelligible nonsense like Rhug'guari'ihlulan.

You should be rolling on the "use" name table.

...

40k has so many cool new units and armies. Haven't played or painted anything in ~10 years but the urge to come back is strong.

Adedptus Mechanicus/Skitarii look nice.

Except armor 14 means that leman Russ is a lot more durable than shitty armor 13. Besides even if the vanquisher doesn't explode your tank first turn it will leave it penned everytime and pretty much the other damage results with leave the high ballistic skill worthless.