How would you run a Star Trek campaign? FASA, Last Unicorn and Decipher all released games under license, but all of them feel like generic sci-fi games.
I'm coming to believe that it's not a matter of system, but style. So, how to capture that lightning?
Any ideas?
Which series?
>FASA, Last Unicorn and Decipher all released games under license, but all of them feel like generic sci-fi games.
But user, that's what Star Trek is
One of the ship ones (so not DS9). An 'adventuring group' doesn't quite fit. There's too much command structure for murderhoboes, not enough 'other stuff' to make up for it.
I suppose my struggle would happen in any naval military rpg.
>I'm coming to believe that it's not a matter of system, but style. So, how to capture that lightning?
Use Lasers and Feelings.
>b-b-but muh system-neutral post
Shut it. Use L&F. You'll understand in a few minutes.
That's the problem. For an RPG to work well* the PCs need to have a good deal of freedom. Putting them into a command structure only works if they are at the very top, or those above them are willing to let the PCs do as they please most of the time.
For that reason, having the PCs operating a Federation starship is only likely to work if they are cut off from Command. There are options that could work:
- PCs are on a deniable operation and thus operating without oversight. Section 31 might have little enough oversight for this to work. But that really clashes with the themes of Trek, so you might want to run a different setting instead.
- PCs have been cut off from the rest of the Federation by something and are on their own. Eg, thrown beyond the reach of the Federation like Voyager was. But that means that the GM can't use most existing species because cutting players off from the Federation cuts them off from anything around Federation space.
- Players are running an independent ship doing whatever they can to make money.
*At least for most people
As much as I appreciate a strong recommendation. Tell me, how a plot generator bolted to the barest of dice pools supports the good parts of Trek?
Because it forces the players to roleplay Star Trek characters instead of consulting their sheets and weighing what they see against the probability of success every time they consider doing something.
The ship ones still have a divide.
TOS was very cowboy. Kirk would do what he had to, to get the job done. There was little mulling over the prime directive or lamenting about how they were peaceful explorers.
He held himself up to the standards of the Federation and what it represented, but if he had to casually fuck about with time, or arm a pre-warp culture with guns, or threaten to genocide an entire species to solve a problem, you can bet your goddamn ass he would.
Compared to Picard, where his Federation was very ingrained, that sector of the galaxy was very much explored and he regularly complained that they had to uphold the prime directive while trying shit that they know will fail before actually solving the problem.
Janeway in turn was "Upholding Starfleet ideals in a place where there was no starfleet." she held onto the Prime Directive fairly hard, but was more willing to bend it to get things done then Picard, but not to the extent of Kirk. But whenever she clenched it to her chest it seemed to always be about something they could have used to solve their problem. Even when her future self came back in time, told her she was stupid and how to get home right then now, Janeway shouted MUH PRIME DIRECTIVE!
With a game defined by the captain, with bridge crew in their orbit, how do you adapt it for the table?
I don't really know many RPGs outside of the 40k ones, but you could probably adapt Rogue Trader to be Star Trek. Just change the classes, weapons, and such.
As for the talks about playing in a roleplaying game with bosses to answer to, just say the PCs are on a ship assigned to the frontier or in the Gamma Quadrant. Communications take weeks or months to reach Starfleet, so they're mostly insulated from the overall command structure and have to rely on their own initiative most of the time. You could also say the Klingons, Romulans, and other races are exploring/conquering the same area of space, so that way they're still involved.
Well, you'd run heavily into 'People go super one way or the other so not as to be the second best in their chosen field'. After all, in L&F McCoy would be terrible at being a doctor as that's the other side.
It's a cool system but far from perfect.
I rather like the Last Unicorn version. It gives you characters that are very much the Renaissance Men that Star Trek supports.
I'm playing in a game of it current that's so far pretty fun.
I'd personally run it Kirk style, possibly in the TOS era.
The bridge crew is generally the core of the Away Teams and gives everyone on the ship something to do in space as long as you're clever about it.
Have them repair consoles, put out fires, scan for weaknesses. Just make sure that they're okay with the chain of command and whoever gets Captain isn't a douche.
I once had a GM who ran us a game of Gurps Prime Directive, he was a big player of Starfleet Battles, but also combined all the more modern species into it for us. Was pretty fun, we got caught in a Hydran-Cardassian war that promptly ended when both the Dominion and Concordium showed up. The group broke up before we could do anything about that though.
Kirk and Picard both defied the prime directive to save alien species, because the directive is a guideline to avoid creating clusterfucks, not a justification for mass murder.
There's that one episode where an asteroid full of people who have since forgotten a lot of their technology (generation ship, I think) was hurdling towards an inhabited world. When presented with the options of letting the asteroid crash into the planet or blowing up the asteroid to save it, Kirk's response is to tell the people on the asteroid that they're on an asteroid, so he can save both.
Janeway, meanwhile, cited the prime directive as a reason to let entire civilizations die out without remorse or even stopping to think about it.
There's one episode where she and Paris get sent back in time to a world that the two of them know will be wiped out soon, and Janeway's only response to Paris wanting to actually warn the locals is to pull rank and order him not to do it, no discussion involved.
Hell, in Dear Doctor, Archer and Flox intentionally choose to let an entire species die out on the grounds of a hunch and bad science, with Archer even making a speech about a 'directive' before the prime directive was even written.
TL;DR: The prime directive went from
>Don't exploit pre-warp civilizations.
to
>Sit back and watch the extinction event!
at some point between TNG and Voyager.
Maybe go more next-gen style with a Captain who is less actively involved with away missions and player characters who are more on equal footing in terms of rank. You'd still potentially have the problem of a character being first officer, but make the captain the GM and you could side step some issues.
Maybe structure the gameplay around poker hands?
In TOS, a lot of episodes focus on the trio of Kirk, Bones and Spock.
In TNG, Picard always discusses issues with the other officers when he can. Action sequences usually focus on Riker, Data and/or Worf.
In Voyager, Janeway, Seven and the Doctor are the only ones to actually do anything by the latter half of the show.
Really, it varies by episode. Some focus on a single character, but it's rarely a case of the plot ignoring the existence of the rest.
The captain is just the party face, so they do most of the talking while the rest of the crew handles their own areas of expertise.
Rogue Trader. You have a legion of disposable redshirts, a core crew which actually matters, and an infinite expanse of stars to venture forth into.
>Not exploring the delta quadrant.
>Not ACTUALLY exploring the delta quadrant after Voyager cocked it up.
>Not filling the campaign with references to Voyager's general incompetence.
You could make multiple campaigns just dealing with putting out the fires Janeway started.
>Hell, in Dear Doctor, Archer and Flox intentionally choose to let an entire species die out on the grounds of a hunch and bad science, with Archer even making a speech about a 'directive' before the prime directive was even written.
That episode was so bad that it made me want to stop watching. There were so many problems with that it just made me mad. Evolution doesn't work that way, ethics doesn't work that way, and fuck that conclusion.
Even Picard stepped in when that planet thought he was god, and that didn't even threaten the lives of the people on the planet, just their brains.
If Enterprise did anything, it was demonstrating that Voyager could've been worse.
Voyager at least had some good episodes in there, even some where Neelix was useful and the crew didn't fuck up everything they touched.
But Enterprise? Enterprise was where intelligent thought went to die.
You missed the 'force them to role play star trek characters' part.
No, I got that. I then pointed out that L&F fails to work for one of the holy trinity of the original series. McCoy, who always argued with emotion and humanity but was also a very professional doctor.
There have been other posts that argue setting up better than I can so I'll leave that aside. As for mechanics- I used the Fantasy Flight Star Wars system for my last Star Trek game. It lends itself really well to more story and character driven encounters without abstracting everything, and combat is quick fun and can be cinematic or deadly as you choose. Lots of things are modable, ship rules work right out of the box for star trek (even sheilds!) And even the handful of psychic powers from star trek are easy to use as force powers.
Just reread L&F rules, I think I see where we're not seeing eye to eye: you interpret the Medical skill as 'lasers', where I would interpret it as 'feelings'. You can't play this game with cold hard rationality, user - it also requires, ahem, feelings. Gotta play this one half-reasonably, and half-feelingly.
>You could make multiple campaigns just dealing with putting out the fires Janeway started.
That's actually an incredible idea.
I know. I want to run it, but I can't handle two campaigns at the same time.
It's a science. Science is on the lasers side of Lasers and Feelings.
I've read the L&F rules. I believe they are flawed and don't match the dynamic of a lot of Star Trek shows or even accurately work for TOS which it was clearly based on.
>Janeway, meanwhile, cited the prime directive as a reason to let entire civilizations die out without remorse or even stopping to think about it.
Janeway was a goddamn psychopath. You could make an entire campaign with her as the BBEG, even if you're playing as Federation officers. Especially if you're playing as Federation officers.
Janeway is my favorite villain.
No user - in LF, medicine is NOT science - it is a soft skill like seduction, or communications. Remember: the point of the show was the dynamism between Spock (lasers), Bones (feelings), and Kirk (navigating in between the two extremes). Bones is feelings. Medicine is feelings.
Open your heart, user. You are stuck being too rational, too lasers. Be more feelings. Only in that way can the game work as it should.
>medicine is NOT a science
Ah, so the game runs on bullshit.
>No user - in LF, medicine is NOT science - it is a soft skill like seduction, or communications.
Then what happens with all those characters that were cold, professional doctors? Do they they get screwed out of being good at their job?
>No user - in LF, medicine is NOT science - it is a soft skill like seduction, or communications.
But Spock was also very good at medicine. He was the ship's science officer and often had observations about such things if Bones wasn't there.
Yes, Lasers and Feelings runs off bullshit. Its a game that fits on a napkin.
like who?
>Janeway, meanwhile, cited the prime directive as a reason to let entire civilizations die out without remorse or even stopping to think about it.
To be fair Picard did this once. Or would have unless Work's stepbrother hadn't gone rogue.
Starfleet shuttles are so damn cozy.
>like who?
Presumably every Vulcan ever who went into medicine.
>TL;DR: The prime directive went from
>>Don't exploit pre-warp civilizations.
>to
>>Sit back and watch the extinction event!
>at some point between TNG and Voyager
TNG. Pen Pals. Picard chastises Data for talking to a pre-warp alien over the radio, refuses to save their planet citing Prime Directive.
Then she explicitly asks Data for help, which it's implied triggers some kind of a loophole in the Prime Directive where you can intervene in a "minimal exposure" way.
Anyway, I think the discrepancy is less to do with the Prime Directive becoming more strict and more to do with the fact that Archer and Janeway were terrible captains/the ENT and VOY showrunners were terrible writers.
If seduction is a soft skill, why is Bones better at it than Kirk? Bones did almost none of it but the game says that he's be much better at it.
I played a Half-Ferasan Caitian in a 'trek game. I was a security officer. He was a bit of a vulca-boo because his WARRIOR BLOOD made him emotionally unstable.
Our Engineer was a Ferengi woman who found the experience of wearing clothing public novel. (her player's excuse was that she came from a backwards colony so the reforms took a bit to reach her settlement.)
Our Doctor was a Cardassian who'd apprentices under a torturer back in the day but for obvious reasons didn't like thinking of that whole mess.
Our diplomatic officer was a Betazoid who could manage to, shock of shocks, use her telapathic abilities and be of use. No real practical skills beyond manipulating people or counseling them but she had her uses.
Our GM solved the whole "Command Chain kind of fucks up freedom" by throwing us into the Delta Quandrant during that whole Dominion War thing. So we're literally on the otherside of the galaxy pulling a voyager, unlike voyager we actually run out of torpedoes and need to refuel on a semiregular basis. Our ship was a science ship that was retrofitted into an escort vessel and became increasingly hodgepodge as we moved on through the galaxy.
>To be fair Picard did this once.
Yeah, but Janeway does it repeatedly, as a matter of course.
Picard at least thought about it for a minute.
>ENT and VOY showrunners were terrible writers.
That was actually my point.
Pen Pals was poorly written, too. TNG was just USUALLY better about it. But some writers were worse than others.
>These two words refer to specific concepts in the context of this rules system
>I'm going to ignore that context and interpret these words using the common dictionary definition
>Why don't these rules make sens anymore?
>Our Doctor was a Cardassian
That's got to be terrifying for the crew.
>apprentices under a torturer back in the day
Actually makes perfect sense, since knowledge of the body would be helpful to both professions.
>Betazoid who could manage to, shock of shocks, use her telapathic abilities and be of use.
Holy shit, really?!
The thing is Medicine is ONLY a soft thing in Lasers and Feelings because 'Bones was emotional and he was the doctor'.
Lasers and Feelings doesn't try to emulate star trek. It tries to pidgeonhole people into the exact same roles as TOS and even then not very well.
>like who?
Gul Madred. He was a psychologist and interrogator.
>Bones did almost none of it but the game says that he's be much better at it.
His player wasn't interested in ERP.
...
Oh it was a complete shit show for the crew. By GM fiat it was decided none of us would be captain, the captain wouldn't go on away trips and cited a lack of skilled and capable personel as a reason to forbid certain people from leaving the ship.
The Cardassian and Betazoid weren't even supposed to be on the ship longterm they were just in transit. But we get flung off to the ass end of the Delta Quandrent after Jem-Hadar kill like a 4th of the crew and now it's time to make exploding lemons.
So the Jem-hadar kill the chief security officer leaving my Half-Ferasan as one of the highest ranking security officers. (Read Half Kzinti aka War Cats, basically feline klingons, who in game were vassals of the klingon empire.) He tries vulcan meditation because he's pissed to hell about losing an officer he looked up to. That doesn't work and the holodeck is busted so wails on a training dummy till he breaks several fingers.
that of course did not lead to much confidence in him from the crew. Gave the Cardassian a good excuse to interact with him and earn his trust though. They bonded by discussing the best ways to take out an enemy without killing him or causing more pain and damage than necessary.
and yeah the Betazoid was allowed to use her telepathy to do shit. Reading minds could be dangerous for her but unlike say, Troi she wouldn't encounter powerful unreadable alien intelligences on a regular fucking basis. More often than not she'd be reading the mind of an alien at the negotiation table and tell the captain he's lying via telepathy.
I didn't say he was a nice guy.
Well that's a damn ironic choice of name then.
Yes, but...
How many lights do you see, user?
Him as a doctor is a stretch, and he's definitely a feelings guy, just bad feelings.
'Bones'
From 'Sawbones' an old military term for Surgeon. Remember, Kirk and company were navymen.
he had at least first aid knowledge. Had picard implanted with an agonizer and extensive knowledge of the inner workings of the mind.
You don't get it at all. Give up.
Sounds like a hell of a fun time. Makes me jealous.
>tell the captain he's lying via telepathy.
She didn't just state the bloody obvious? You really did hit the jackpot on Betazoids.
Bones actually got quite a bit of pussy in TOS.
>Artemis: space ship bridge simulator
With some other background RP dice stuff if you must
You, sir, are great. Keep enjoyin l&f, you glorious bastard.
Or perhaps your game is not as flawless as you try to sell it as.
Too bad JJ didn't get that memo.
Heck, how would you deal with a Vulcan Diplomat in Lasers and Feelings? They turned up more than once but 'Vulcan' and 'Social' are not going to align in that system.
Who said it was flawless, user? You really suck at this. If you don't want the only rpg that accurately captures the feel of trek, by all means go ahead and get yerself a brick. Sounds like it would be right up your back alley.
>honestly the major problems with betazoids was the writers didn't know what to do with them. Okay you have someone who can read minds, great now lets get some intrigue going. What do you mean we're not making an arcing episode? C'mon we can do two parters.
>what do you mean she can't just telepathically talk to the captain? We could literally just have them voice over and glance at eachother at the table. Set up a brain network shit would be cash!
It's kind of embarassing when X-men makes better use of telepaths in story than you do. And it's not like Star Trek is short of flimsy explanations for the crew winning. How much more contrived is 'my telepath read your mind and told me you'd cheat me' than 'we ejected our warp core to stop the singularity?'
Why not? Are you not imaginative? That's too bad.
How would I deal with it? EASY! Make vulcan diplomacy a science. Fucking duh!!
Git gud.
>'we ejected our warp core to stop the singularity?'
U wot? They did it (and then detonated the core) to use the push from the blastwave to knock them out of the event horizon they were stuck in.
Not to mention the inexplicably long range they have. Troi is frequently shown emphatically reading the captains of other ships despite their ships being hundreds-thousands of meters or kilometers apart.
>If you don't want the only rpg that accurately captures the feel of trek
Except as people have said, it doesn't. It's pidgeonholing into the dynamic of three specific characters in Star Trek and devaluing them as it does so.
Many of Spocks greatest actions were done out of emotion as much as logic and Bones was an intelligent professional, not just a bag of emotions.
It especially fails to capture any series outside TOS. To go to a very annoying example, Wesley Crusher was a little bastard who was both a genius and emotionally immature.
So in other words, Lasers and Feelings are interchangeable? Redundancy is such great design.
She's faking so that Picard won't fire her for being completely useless.
So basically: Anyone can use Feelings OR Lasers for literally anything?
I know it's trek, technobabble and fuzzy science is to be expected. Last I checked Romulan ships were powered by tiny black holes. (I'm not even going to bother thinking about how that works in detail.) but I'm somewhat amused at how much fucking trouble TNG's writers had at making Troi and (god help us) her mother useful. I mean demonstratably useful not "I CAN'T READ THIS INCREDIBLE INTELLIGENCE'S MIND"
Not that user, but I interpret it to mean more *how* you do it. Take piloting for example. If you describe the action as if you're doing hot-headed, seat of your pants, "use the force luke" bullshit then it's Feelings.
Conversely if you're piloting by expertly plotting courses and waiting for the *exact* right moment to pull that book-perfect maneuver on your enemy, then it's lasers.
>completely useless.
That's not true. She put all her skills into starship ramming. If Star Fleet used kamikaze shuttle pilots, she'd be an asset!
no Picard knows she's faking but he tolerates her because she sleeps with Riker on a regular basis and that keeps the horny fuck just sexxed enough to be useful.
Though to be completely honest, L&F is more Galaxy Quest than anything
At which point you end up with the only two stats in the game doing the same thing.
yeah that shit was odd.
I'm just glad we didn't have a Deltan on ship.
It's a napkin comedy game man. And about it being the best Trek RPG I refer you to my previous statement
>they call their home planet Delta IV
You don't want trek, user - you want your speshul snowflake majicul ream IN SPESSSSS. kys.
that's true, but in all ways he's firmly in the feels category
You REALLY don't get it, do ya, kiddies?
>L&F is more Galaxy Quest than anything
>Galaxy Quest
>but NOT Star Trek, no no no
All those examples were trek characters.
If you can't tell the difference between the two I'm not sure you'll ever get it.
Oh, for fuck's sake - how can you be this pants-on-head retarded, user? Like, seriously, are you trying to be this stupid?
How would a vulcan diplomat be any different mechanically? Vulcans have strong emotions and their entire philosophy is "maintain a poker face and accuse other people of being overly emotional." Its like Veeky Forums.
Their society is very primitive, full of barbaric customs and backwards social attitudes, and their way of life is due to being unable to stop killing each other otherwise.
>JJTrek
What they did was stupid, and wouldn't have worked. Technobabble is par for the course, but that damned movie has so much stupid its hard to ignore it and take the good parts for what they are.
inb4 Nemesis a shit!
Of course it was shit. Braga was involved.
That you're a shill for a game is functionally freeform with a single stat? Yeah, I got that.
Yes, but you have revealed a fundamental flaw in your understanding of TOS trek. If you fail to see the clear laser/feeling dynamic, you fail to see the point of the show, and instead are watching plain old sci fi. Stick with plain old sci fi if that's the case - Star Trek is about bigger things than you are capable of.
PON-FARR
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>Of course it was shit.
I have yet to find a soul who says otherwise.
If (You) can't tell the similarities between the two, you are fucking retarded faggots, and it's affected your brain.
I've dealt with a lot JJTrek fans in my time whose first response is that Nemesis was one of the worst Star Trek movies of all time, as though it somehow excuses JJTrek from all its sins.
pretty much everyone I know considers Nemesis non-canon.
JJ-Trek is already non-canon by way of being an AU but I've yet to meet anyone who's fond of any season who has high praise for it.
having a 9/11 truther write the plot to your second film doesn't help anything.
They always forget this...
>zing!