Infinity General: Pool Party Edition

I pretty much only prime my models with airbrush and paint the rest with brushes, but zenithal highlight gives a good impressions, how highlights should go.

I just use brushes, washes, and highlights. The tried and true method.

So, I'm an eons-ago WFB/40K/BFG/what-have-you player with mostly GW background looking to make get back into mini wargaming for the first time in a decade.

What I've heard about Infinity is that there is effectively no meta, no solid lists, and everything operates off favorite models / rule of cool.

To me this suggestion is implausible because there has to be some sort of points economy army creation. There has to be minimum requirements in terms of what one should take into a mission, sweet spots for diversification vs stacking etc.

Where this leaves me is the assumption that Infinity is actually a game about owning half of the range for a particular faction and picking a toolkit on the spot. Kind of like walking into GW with 6 armies.

Any veterans care to share their enlightenment?

Not really mate.

Infinity is built around scenarios, and there are types of models you need to take for those scenarios.

There is also usually 0-2 models per faction that suck.

Beyond that every model can be taken, though you want to follow loosely these guidelines:

10-15 orders
1 of each specialist (Hacker, FO, Doctor, Engineer)
2-3 models that can fight well offensively (High burst and/or special abilities)
2-3 models that can fight well defensively (Good range, High damage ammo, and/or special abilities)
A way to get quickly into your opponents DZ to punish cheap spam (AD, Infiltration, High Speed)

You can absolutely own 10-15 models for a faction and use this as an all comers list.

I have several factions where I do this, and other factions where I have more diverse choices.

Both ways can be fun.
Post a faction you are interested in and I can build you a list you can bring into any scenario comfortably.

I think you are confusing Infinity with Malifax.

>owning half of the range for a particular faction and picking a toolkit on the spot
No, but we all do that anyway because the models are fucking gorgeous.

Firstly, the list flexibility is generally true, but don't hyperbolise it. List building is still something of a skill, but it's less of a function of your wallet, and terrible game design like 40k.
>minimum requirements
Sure, sure, but it's so easy to fulfil those requirements.
>sweet spots
To an extent, but the way the figures are, and the way the game is, gives you a huge amount of wiggle room, both in what you take, and how you accomplish it. Requirements tend to be created in very broad strokes.
>picking a toolkit on the spot
Ugh. Tailored lists. Yeah, no. Particularly for tournaments. You might play 6-8 games for a two day-er, and choose from between two lists.

There are only a few scenarios I feel like I have to build for instead of just taking my Go-to choices.

And the TOs in my area rarely pick them/my gaming group never plays them casually.

Eh, you don't really need all the different specialists. I wouldn't go below 2, though. Engineers are often extraneous and hackers are the same way in some factions.

Something to deal with camo is also a good plan since it's very common. Luckily there's various ways to do so.

Local metas vary widely from city to city.
There is some emphasis on list building (have a decent # of orders, a few specialist for ITS objectives), but if you've got the basics covered, you've got lots of elbow room and in-battle tactics are more important. Netlists are practically unused except as concepts that most people put their own slant on anyway.
Since there's emphasis on tactics, list tailoring is not that important, if you take 2 lists for a day of random pickup games you should have all bases covered.

As for half the range for a particular faction, pokemonitis is a thing and is much worse than that. I have 2 whole faction ranges with over max AVA for most important units (but I like WYSIWYG and bargain hunting) and 400-500 point for 4 more factions.

Yeah, been loving the sensor/sniffer combo a ton.

24-25 points for a great way to deal with camo, 2 orders and a FO specialist.

I own 300-1000 points of:
JSA
Caledonia
FRRM
NCA
MO
CA
Morats
Bakunin

....he-help me...

Came up with this list mostly to fuel the Su-Jian duo.
Has anyone run the Su-Jian duo yet? How did it go?

Appreciate the info, anons.

Indeed the primary reason I am looking to get into Infinity instead of something else. That and the low model count, plus the fact that much of the models are sold at Y2K GW pewter blister prices.

Looking to branch into JSA and eventually ISS. I figure along the way through those I'll be able to throw together hodgepodge vanilla Yu Jin lists as well. I really enjoy the PanO and Aelph models as well (enough to have bought some long ago for RPG use, along with Yu Jing) but... one step at a time.

Would you say, then, that Infinity is too nuanced for the broad-strokes mathhammer/listhammer of GW, and that list comprehension as a skill only comes with serious experience?

>JSA
You're part of the problem, nip. Get some vanilla YJ into your system, it's good for you.

Ive had it run against me, pretty brutal.

I think the KS link > CG link.

The main thing you learn with infinity is manipulating different bonuses, and redundancy when you opponent rolls a crit.

It is not a game that can be theorized out though, because the important decisions are made in game rather than at the list building stage.

>and that list comprehension as a skill only comes with serious experience?
If anything, I'd say the opposite. You play a few games, and I'd say you'll pick up what you need to make a good 80% efficient list. Experts can probably edge you out, but it's pretty easy to get to a basically solid list building skill level.

Nuanced isn't a bad word to apply here, though. Math hammering doesn't really have much place here though. Units and armies don't really compare directly well, Allied Detachments aren't a thing, and gameplay tends to affect things fairly seriously as well. For instance, in reaction, you only fire a single shot. So a crappy figure with 3 shots (i.e., your average 10 point list-stuffer), has a pretty decent chance of dropping an elite figure, assuming the elite figure doesn't stack the deck in any number of ways. The fine details and particular combinations tend to blur, particularly with the lack of hard mechanical combinations ala-warmachine, or the heavy reliance on special rules ala 40k.

There's less hard counters and need for hard counters, as well. Take 40k, for instance. A Lascannon equivalent is either going to be utterly vital, or almost useless, depending on your opponent's list. And there's a serious disparity depending on their lists between the value of say, a flamer, or a plasma gun. The NUMBERS in Infinity don't vary anywhere near the degree. TAG's are tough, but a basic mook with a rifle has a nontrivial chance of scoring a wound on them. And the big heavyTAG killers benefit greatly from those qualities against most things at the same time. Countering particular tactics tends to work in the same way. The mechanics are very adaptable, and there tends to be so many ways to skin a given cat that unit selection tends to not be so much about fitting a given niche so much as being a useful combination of a matrix of abilities. Over the course of your list, you want each category to be over a certain amount, and a certain total sum.

This is a great post.

>list comprehension as a skill only comes with serious experience?
Not quite, but it helps. It's less about what's in the list and more about what you do with it. Tactics are where the real skill lies in Infinity, and lists tend to reflect the playstyle of the one who uses them.

Thanks again for the help.

>The NUMBERS in Infinity don't vary anywhere near the degree.
>There's less hard counters and need for hard counters, as well.
>lack of hard mechanical combinations ala-warmachine, or the heavy reliance on special rules ala 40k.

In retrospect I can see the homogeneity being a huge point of disorientation for someone with my background.

I guess for the time being the plan is to get myself a JSA starter, some generic mooks, and a few models for the "cool" factor, to bulk out the collection (concessions towards special roles) and look for some friendly local games and go from there.

I think it's going to be fun learning a game where the bulk of the skill is while playing.

>and redundancy when you opponent rolls a crit
crits are the one thing I hate about this game

Crits are the worst thing in Infinity.

I can't think of anything I'd want to do with a KS link though. It can't firefight, even with a couple of BS Kuang Shi and it can't grab objectives. Sure, they can cheerlead, do smoke tricks with the abundancy of MSV2 in ISS and move up themselves under the cover of smoke, but once they've moved up they don't have much to follow through with it. I'd much rather have a core link with more capabilities.

The Celestial Guard can provide ARO support and long-range active-turn fire power with the MSR, fairy dust the HI with the hacker, and then move up to claim objectives in the late stages of the game.

Why per chance? Too good for something too random?

>get myself a JSA starter
Just a thought, but the JSA starter is a bit on the old side and the Keisotsu don't look all that nice. That being said, a primer on JSA:
- JSA, as a YJ faction, specialize in heavy infantry and close combat, though the latter is not something you want to focus too much energy on, as Infinity is a shooting game through and through. While JSA can do lots of things, one of their greatest strengths is the usage of HI links, particularly Haramaki (they're normally Extremely Impetuous, but this is negated by links) which are very cheap for a HI link but also very solid, especially with 2 missile launchers.
- You can also go bike heavy, and take advantage of the few smoke troops that JSA has that vanilla YJ cannot take.
- The standard JSA specialists are well-priced (and vanilla lists usually take them over Zhanshi versions), particularly the Toketsu Butai doctor and engineer, as well as special character Yuriko Oda.
- Ninjas of all stripes are extremely situational, but they can turn the tide of a match if positioned correctly.

JSA starter is pretty old and shitty teebeeaich. ISS got one recently and vanilla is about to get a resculpt too, JSA might get a new one later this year if the "year of Yu Jing" keeps going as well as it has been.

>In retrospect I can see the homogeneity being a huge point of disorientation for someone with my background.
You're not alone on that score. You still get the occasional person getting huffy that a given faction got something they considered to be a hallmark of their faction. I'd say the comparison should be more like NATO vs Warpact. They all have similar things, but the specifics, and the tactics, differentiate them.
>JSA
They've got some nice stuff. Limited, but still plenty of options. Not a bad place for a newbie to start. And YJ has everything in spades, if you decide to play the full faction.
>bulk of the skill
Just remember that that cuts both ways. You might have your ass kicked a few times before you figure out a few of the fundamentals. If a given tactic/item/ability seems horribly broken, just play a few more games. The counter-tactics should become clear soon enough.

If you roll the target number exactly. So, 1/20 for each dice in the roll. Getting a crit typically removes the chance for an armour save, or equivalent. Alternatively, even if their roll is better than yours, a crit makes you the winner.
It's a bit of a wildcard, but considering the results it offers are within the usual range of events, and that it's only 1/20, selection bias has more to do with it than gameplay effect.

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This is my QK wishlist. I'm still short an Azra'il and a Bazouk. What think?

See, I kind of like the 5% chance of a wild swing on rolls in a game like Infinity where the games are already pretty quick. I do think it could be toned down as an effect though. If it was just a guaranteed hit but didn't ignore armor/take you directly to death I think it would still be great but it wouldn't be so much of a swing. It would basically just be a 5% chance of lucking out of face-to-face rolls.

Yeah, you tend to remember all those times your TAG was one shotted thanks to a lucky crit (outside of monofilament swords, that als means several failed ARM rolls in a row on some fancy special ammunition), and not those when dice result were bog standard.

I only hate crits because they hate me. You'll be fine unless you have comically bad luck.

It's not great. Triple Azra'il could work out even though it's gimmicky, but the Jann simply isn't being useful.
Kaplan doc isn't a good plan, it's literally the worst doctor in the faction. Why so many engineers?

More like too good for me. I've had a lot of games botched by 4-5 crits too keep loving them.

The engineers are for blowing up doors, pushing buttons, and supporting the Big Guys.
Jann is there for the obligatory LT. Maybe make him a Djanbazan instead?. I'll replace the KTS doc

This better?

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>Bostria plays overwatch and demands better white hair sniper waifus on their spanish facebook page

Nah, then a Jotum in cover will basically never take a wound against anything not AP.

I like crits.

I doubt it.Maybe 2017.

I think the JSa starter holds up, but I rarely use anything in there.

Get a Haramaki, Domaru, Karakuri, Remote and Support box, along with Shinobu and Raiden blister and you are off to the races.

Bostria is love, Bostria is life.

One of the few TAGs I see in competitive play as well.

Infinity General, please convince me to finish painting my Operation Icestorm boxset. All I've got done are a Fusilier and the Grenzer, while the rest are all base coated. And I still have so many other projects to do...

Go step by step, something i do is bring to my paint table 1 or 2 miniatures of a unit, paint them and then bring another 2 until i finish the unit, sometimes the fact that we have a lot to paint makes us not to paint at all just because of it, go step by step user dont rush.

Not really, no.

Try this.

Akbar Doc is great for Azrail, and Blitzens/AL are a solid defense against most of the things that are dangerous to your list.

Do the models you feel excited about.

The Rev Healer and Father Knight were my favorite to paint.

Carlos, stop surfing facebook and give me a Tracer-based Airborne ranger already!

I'm of the opinion that cheerleader LT's are hella boring. Like, the guy in charge should be suitably badass, even if that does make them a bigger target.

I don't like the Line Infantry LT Shell Game.

In QK my preferred place for the Lt is inside a link team. Means he can still actively participate but is protected by being in a link team.

So who does he link with, the Azra'il boys?
Because he can't join the Kaplans.

Sorry, that was just speaking in general, it wasn't really advice for that list. It's annoying Hafza can't link with KTS nowadays, that would have been a great hiding place.

I made a silly list:

Damn Scots, You Ruined Scotland
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10
WALLACE Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 35)
WULVER Mk12, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 37)
WULVER T2 Rifle, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33)
WULVER Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32)
WULVER Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32)
ISOBEL McGREGOR Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, E/Mauler / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 23)
UXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
CALEDONIAN MORMAER AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
CALEDONIAN MORMAER (X Visor) T2 Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)

2.5 SWC | 300 Points
Wulver/Wallace Link plus independent Mormaers. I made it because it is filled with minis that I think are cool. Isobel, Wulvers and Mormaers look great. And it has a few minis that I already have so expanding to it wouldn't be to hard.

Also from my understanding, when inside a link, Impetuous troops ignore the penalties to cover and the extra order. If they lose the link and they killed someone, does frenzy activate?

While in the link they aren't considered frenzy either. So can kill, break link, and keep being just regular frenzy till you kill something else with that guy.

Yeah, my goto is aggressive Lt so I can use his order every turn, backed by Chain of Command.

Looks pretty solid. Could use a few Caterans for ARO pieces.

Am I the only one who thinks Izzy is terrible?

That's why you kill all the line infantry.

No question then lol.

He's angry because the coat's yellow? He hates Blizzard. Asks for more because it's an insult to white haired sniper medics?

I wonder what he thinks about the Talon mercenaries that suspiciously look like Kaplans.

I do like it. To me the Lt isn't the dude leading a charge, it's the radio guy allowing efficient movement. Everyone's coordinating via headsets and if the one guy goes down they have a minute's panic while someone else takes charge. So it's weirder when that guy is a berserk dakka nutcase.

Also, fucking Speculo Killer.

She's wretched in vanilla or as a solo unit, but Volunteer+McGergor+GreyHMG is a really cool outfit. You can put down dakka, launch a grenade, get objectives or drop smoke round a corner and put an EMauler inside.

I like this description.

>dat fucking art
HNNNGGG

Yea I agree in most cases her intended purpose seems lacking. If I could fit them in I would.

Caterans are cool as fuck as well. They just didn't make it in because of space and min models to buy. I play USA main, but some of team Scotlands models just look too fucking cool.

Didn't even think about that combo. I appreciate the tip!

My N3 Book and Morat Aggression Force start pack just came in today! Looking forward to building and painting my models. Even looking forward to reading through all of the rules in the physical book too.

Even got a lead on where to play.

Life is good /Infinity General/. Life is good.

Under the new Human Sphere rules, when am I allowed to create a new fireteam (or remake a broken one)?

>During the game, spending a Command Token and placing a Team Leader Marker (F: TEAM LEADER) next to one of the troopers that meet the Requirements of this rule.

Doesn't state when I am actually allowed to do this. Can I just spend a command token in the reactive turn when I see a model coming into ARO range of a bunch of fireteam-capable troopers to instantly get all the fireteam bonuses? That seems really handy, so I'm just wondering if there was some restriction preventing ad hoc fireteam creations that I missed.

>That seems really handy, so I'm just wondering if there was some restriction preventing ad hoc fireteam creations that I missed.

Command tokens cannot be spent on the reactive turn, nor do they let you break the normal rules for fireteams (e.g. you could not spend one on your first turn to get two fireteam: core). But yes, the whole point is that you can reform/make new fireteams as the game progresses as long as you meet their normal requirements.

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What do you guys think about this list? I feel this list would be good to have Avicenna in but I can't figure out what to remove to place her in the list

Can you start the game with an active fire team if you are going second?

yes

Yes. During deployment, you can deploy models in a fireteam(s)

So what kind of characters are people planning to play as for the RPG?

Pheasant Rank Imperial Agent.

I'll make sure to buy a Monofilament CCW despite protests from my party members.

Think Mattie Ross from True Grit, but brown.
Basically her dad was a space freighter captain on the Caravansary, took his kid along, then space pirates hit. The girl takes to an escape pod, is drifting through space and gets picked up by a shipload of KTS, who adopt her as a mascot. She trains with them, then after 4-5 years goes bounty hunter to track down the pirates who killed her father.

Sounds special snowflake as fuck, but I've had this idea for bloody ages and can't wait to play her.

>Tohaa Sukuel commando. That new unit.

So my friend has been looking for someone to split red veil with, and I'm pretty close to saying "fuck it" and pick up the Haqq half of it. I don't have a ton of interest in the faction but love the Al Fasid and the Merc side of things. Is there a good 300 point effective haqq list or guidelines for playing with them? I'd really like to make it a bit competitive and not a this-looks-cool army, and I fear I may not really be able to do that, or get bored since they got so little with HSN3 (that's what happened with PanO for me).

Going to do a Nisses for mine. We are trying to get the infinity character sheet for roll20 up to par

Go QK, mostly Mercs.

You can use the AF as Azrail, and run mostly Druze and Kaplan.

You the man!

Munkey life!

>There are only a few scenarios I feel like I have to build for instead of just taking my Go-to choices.
>And the TOs in my area rarely pick them

Yeah a lot of TOs are shitty and don't realize that Corvus Belli gives us the means to deal with balance issues through mission selection.

Is this list shitty?

MO Joan with a magister link. The fusilier is a fairy dust bot.

Joan LT
Warcors
Hospitaller doctor
Hospitaller HMG
Magister
Magister
Magister ML
Father Knight FO, nimbus grenades
TO Camo Spec Srgt FO, mines
Fusilier hacker

Worth a shot. Low on orders, but a lot of built in efficiency and beef.

You'll be heavily reliant on the link's SSL2 against camo, but otherwise it seems good.

Looks like a great list IMO.

Got to say, the character creation for the RPG is some of the most fun I have had with character creation in a long while. I actually would not mind doing it several times just to see what I get.

Anyone know what the Armoured paramilitary uniform with supplemental Armour plating is though? Not listed in gear but two careers get it

An Irish bounty hunter who always wears a mask. All funds that are not spent on alcohol will be spent on more guns and ammunition. He has an extreme hatred of Tohaa and nobody's quite sure why, not even himself.

So I got my hands on those models from a friend who left for work. I know he sold some stuff, but is it possible to build an army out of this.
6 caledonian volenteers
2 caledonian volenteers with chain rifles
1 caldeonian volenteer with GLauncher
1 cladeonian volenteer with a heavy machine gun
1xuxia mc neill
1 caledonian mormaer with a heavy machine gun
2 caldeonian greys with heavy machine guns
2 SAS , one with a chain gun
2 scotish guard one with a Launcher and the other with something that looks like two pistols
1 dozer
2 wulvers
1 realy big wulver with chain guns and one with sword and chain gun.
3 kazak

Can I build and army out of this, or do I need to buy some stuff to make it work?

Alright you guys, I got a pdf of the n3 rulebook here for your use. Look through it to your hearts content. Now find me the n3 human sphere one and paridoso

sendspace.com/file/ora7ev

A sort of Malcolm Reynolds-esque ex-Intruder.

Shouldn't be hard at all, that's a pretty good selection.
Ask him if he gave you all of the Scotts Guard's, though. The pistol one comes in a 4-box.
-Maybe- picking up the rest of the Guards would give you some wiggle room link wise, and some Galwegians would be a big help, no idea why he never got any, but other than that, you've got most of the CHA.

he sold everything else. he has a few more models, but they aren't ariadna from what I understand.

I was wondering how this list would fare for capturing objectives. I love the light grenade launcher after one shot took out an Aquila HMG and I love the idea of the light grenade launcher link team firing 4 every round for only 28 points. Maneuvering them wouldn't be a pain because i just fire over whatever.

Someone made a post on how to expand Haqqislam after getting the Red Veil set:
data-sphere.net/bostrias-challenge-red-veil-haqqislam/