Vintage/ Legacy General

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>Old School
>White board cards

Get out

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LIAR!

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It's at about 20% of the meta and Top is in about 25% of all the decks in the format as well as causing games to go on for far too long.

>What are you guys playing?
I don't play legacy at the moment, just on cockatrice
>What are you trying to build?
I want to try Canadian Threshold because I love Nimble Mongoose and the way the deck plays, but I also like Shardless BUG because it runs a bunch of stuff you can't use in Modern
>What do you hate playing against?
Burn
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
For modern maybe
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Not sure

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>What are you guys playing?
Dredge, I used to play ANT but I sold my duals and fetches and Infernals, kept the LEDs though to play dredge because I had the stuff lying around. Also used to play belcher and oops stuff
>What are you trying to build?
I want to sell all my dredge stuff and the remnants of my modern Naya Zoo and Infect decks for hopefully about 1600 (even though it's all worth like 17-1800, I just want to get rid of it) and put all that towards playing either Eldrazi or DnT, I've always wanted to play a fairer deck but I've never had the money and just played combo decks but now that LED is worth something it may be feasible. I've sold on here before so this is a slight shill for myself, I'll sell the pile for like 1500 on here or just straight up trade you for an Eldrazi deck, so you could make some cash off that.

I'm also a bit worried they may try to ban Chalice for some reason, I have absolutely no real reason to think this but it just seems like something Wizards would do.
If it does get banned I'm going for DnT for sure
>What do you hate playing against?
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
I was going to try to put Brisela in Dredge for lulz but it doesn't seem to
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Top, it's seriously that fucking good. It's a free brainstorm every turn for 1 colorless and it's absolutely absurd. That is if they ban anything.

tl;dr hit me up if you want to trade a big pile of cards for eldrazi or dnt

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Canadian Threshold has lost a lot of ground now. It's really unable to hold up against Grixis delver or a lot of the BUG decks.

I have the feeling they're going to ban Chalice in Modern, not too sure about the other formats. I can see them leaving it alone in Legacy for now since we have Force of Will.

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I'm ok with a modern chalice ban. Chalice in legacy isn't that bad but it seems like it's getting more popular and Wizards might think that playing against prison all the time is unfun and get rid of it. I don't want it but I can see it

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I hear you. I feel like it was needed in Shops for Vintage but I still miss being able to have a chalice on 0 and a chalice for 1 on turn one.

Chalice just shuts down vintage games, you can't play any moxes or even MM if it's on one. In legacy it's a bit slower so it's fair. MUD also has shops and it can just keep the other person from playing the game if you can get a few lock pieces down turn 1

Yeah I know. That's why I said it was needed.

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So I've been looking at legacy lists all month and I think I'm finally ready to start building Canadian Threshold. What are some things I should know about the deck before I build it? Any bad matchups? What are common tweaks to the standard list?

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Watch Jacob Wilson play the deck. He's pretty good with it.

The main problem with it now is that it doesn't do anything too backbreaking besides stifle a fetchland maybe.

The other delver decks have a bit more flex with being able to force you to discard stuff and bring down massive creatures for 1B

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That's a shame. Is Shardless BUG still a thing or is that just asking to lose?

No, it's fucking huge now. Be prepared to drop 3 grand on it though.

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It's still a thing but I like Grixis a lot more.

Ok, good to know. I was looking at decklists for it and it seems like despite those problems it still does pretty well. However, going back over the thread I guess is has issues with BUG and Grixis? Any user care to elaborate on why?

It's basically delver/BUG except minus delver or any of BUG's great cards. It's just outclassed by those decks by doing what it wants to do but better.

It still does well because it has a low mana curve and it's packed with counters. So you just turn one creature and just make sure that creature lives throughout the game.

The reason it doesn't do well against BUG, is this.

Against Shardless Bug it has a ton of 2 for 1 spells like Hymn and Liliana as well as Baleful Strix. While loading up again with Ancestral Visions. Also their Decays ruin your delvers and Goyfs while you only have lightning bolts and sometimes Dismembers for their creatures.

Against Grixis they can do the turn one probe into cabal therapy. They also have Young Pyro which if they're any good they would play on turn three and then cast another spell. Then they throw out a 5/5 for a B and have enough lightning bolts to hold off your delvers as well as enough spells to go wide against your goyfs or mongoose. Sometimes they run stifle as well.

Also all of them run wasteland. For them it's not that bad because they also have Deathrite to fix their mana.

Ok cool, thanks for the insight. I figured it was probably due to both opposing decks containing a lot more value/trade options. Wasteland is definitely an issue, and I am kind of sad the deck can't run Abrupt Decay. That card has so much going for it in Legacy.

This is the list I'm looking at btw:
mtgtop8.com/event?e=12810&d=274339&f=LE

You don't need 4 CoT for Eldrazi right? I'm seeing some lists running 2 or 3 and they're placing well, plus in testing it doesn't strike me as always super useful.
I also don't want to shell out the money if I don't have to

Also there's this list I'm also looking at
mtgtop8.com/event?e=12529&d=272224&f=LE

They do well because sometimes you just get turn one mimic, turn two thought-knot, turn three Smasher.
In reality it's amazing on the play but not so much on the draw. Back when it wasn't restricted in Vintage a lot of Shops players agreed that the proper way to sideboard is by removing those while on the draw.

I still think it was a mistake to restrict both Chalice and Lodestone back-to-back. Chalice can be back-breaking and leads to a lot of non-games, but it's possible to beat. It's even possible to beat it when they have a Ravager as follow-up. But you are never beating Chalice for 0-1 into Golem.

Granted, in the end it probably made the format the most 'diverse' it's ever been, unless you count all decks that play Gush as one, but that's somewhat asinine.

>Playing
DPTS

>Building
Dredge

>Hating
Thought-Knot Seer

>Wanting
Curious Homonculi looks interesting.

>Banning
Hopefully nothing, but I could maybe-sorta see them re-restricting Gush.

It just seemed like it was only really good on turn 1 or 2 and then on like turn 5 if I had no other lands in hand. A lot of the lists I'm seeing run 3 so I think I'll go with that.

Restricting Chalice was correct. Restricting LSG wasn't though.

The decks running more than 14 lands were able to easily beat Shops decks. The problem was everyone was running 14 lands plus Gush and the last thing you want to do is set yourself back in permanents when your opponent is playing spheres and tangle wires.

The reason to run 4 of them is to have a 50% chance of having it in your opening 7.

And hitting you in the face with a Lodestone, yeah. I think everyone just bandwaggoned against Shops too quickly instead of just you know, playing Oath and Dredge.

If you try to play a Gush deck against a sea of Shops, you are just asking to have a rough time and end up being salty.

Even some big blue decks destroy it since some of them run 18-20 lands.

I blame VSL for it though.

>VSL
Where will you be you when Dyslexia strikes?
is this a joke or acronym i'm not aware of?

It means Vintage Super League.

Every Tuesday they stream a tournament between some pros for it.

In one season everyone ran shops against shops against shops and only talked about how awful shops was. Then surprise LSG was restricted

Ah, I assumed LSV did something silly and got it banned, thanks.

So Eldrazi or DnT? Eldrazi seems like it's a better deck but DnT seems like a cooler deck that will be around longer

>not!Eternal General
B-but muh pauper!

I'll say wait till Monday to see what happens to the banlist.

I've been playing Death and Taxes for about 3 or 4 years now. It's a great deck. Just a little frustrating when you go to a tournament and everyone is playing a quick combo.

I've been playing quick combos, I want to find a nice deck and settle down for a while. Trying to sell and cash out but still have something for legacy on the side

Death and Taxes is a really fun deck to run. It takes time to learn all the interesting interaction.

Eldrazi is pretty braindead until things aren't going your way. That's when experience with the deck helps a ton

I just want this to be my last investment into this game and I don't want it to lose value and become a weak deck, a la threshold

>Veeky Forums always shits on Standard and Modern for being full of creature based decks
>Tune into VSL to see what decks with the most powerful cards in the game can do
>It's a bunch of people slamming Lodestone Golems into each other
>mfw

Go with Death and Taxes, it's less of a meme deck and able to adapt to different metas a bit better I think.

Yeah I think I will, it's a lot more likely to get support cards in the future too I think. It seems like Lands is the new deck to beat and it seems like nobody is bringing DnT to the table anymore right now but it still seems really neat and worth the time.

Actually a lot of people have been getting into Death and Taxes.

They've been reprinting cards for it a ton lately. Just recently printed Mother of Runes, Wasteland, and Karakas.

But yeah Lands does seem like the deck to beat. Which usually means going to a more storm like deck would beat it.

>What are you guys playing?
Notion Thief.dec in Vintage
>What are you trying to build?
I don't know really. Maybe five colour humans?
>What do you hate playing against?
Not entirely used to playing against shops based decks, it's really tricky if i don't counter a turn 1 Trinisphere or some other tax effect.
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Yeah the Mikokoro that loots!
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Dunno, I think Vintage is actually kind of alright now.

5 Colour humans is a meh deck.

For Shops you just have to make sure you hold off against their opening 7. If you can do that you basically win.

Anyone here have any experience with UR painter? I've been playing it on cockatrice for quite a while and it's really fun/powerful but anything with shuffle triggers is basically a bye. Even with crypt in the SB going from a two card combo to a three card combo neuters the deck.

I've tried jamming Wurmcoil in the SB as an alt win condition, which can be good (read: after they surgical painter) but it's not very effective against our already bad matchups (sneak, 12post etc)

I'm torn between just gunning for the three card combo or finding an alt win condition, any thoughts anons?

What? You want to go back to the old days of ramming Slash Panthers into Jaces? Or "oops I didn't open FoW fugg gg"?

There's just some match ups that you know you're going to lose.
If you're UR the best you can do is just have a surgical extraction against those style of decks.

I played a list that had Hibernation as a cheap Upheaval with Servant, I thought it was pretty funny.

Yeah, I feel that. Diluting your SB for matchups that are already extremely unfavorable probably isn't where you want to be. That being said I think I will try out what suggested, because if you're playing on cockatrice you might as well go for the lulz

So why the hell is Narwhal an $8.00 card now?

>Notion Thief.dec in Vintage
List?

VSL isn't actually vintage, it's a 10 person inbred metagame. If your vintage knowledge comes from VSL, you're pretty fucked in an open field

What are you guys playing?
Grixis Delver and Painter in Legacy
Landstill in Vintage

What are you trying to build?
Goblin Stompy, fuck Miracles.

What do you hate playing against?
In Legacy, I don't like playing against Miracles, but that's ok.

Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
This new "Basic Mountain" card seems like sweet anti-wasteland tech.

What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Hopefully, nothing. That said, we all can hope.

Legacy:
If I'm lucky, Counterbalance. If the world is retarded, Chalice of the Void.

Vintage:
Gush is debatable, but wrong to restrict right now. Unrestrict Tinker. If I'm lucky, Island gets banned. If the world is retarded, TKS, Mentor or another Shops piece.

I play RW, so I'm not an expert on UR, but Planeswalkers are always a good backup.

Slash Panther was never good. Even when it saw play.

I miss LSG. I miss Shops being good. I miss being able to fuck them up by playing 22 lands.

It's nothing special, it's just the Grixis Thieves list I copied from last years Vintage Worlds(61 card version). I am not 100% familiar with the Vintage format since I only really started playing Vintage with some degree of competitiveness last year so I figured i'd try this deck and familiarise myself with it. I was playing a fairly cheap(for Vintage standards)hate bears list for a while until I was a bit more familiar with the format from a deck a friend had and now that i'm a bit more familiar I wanted to move on.

I just love the Notion Thief's in there to abuse things like Dack Fayden(targetting opponent) and to fight against JTMS and Griselbrand in Oath decks. Blightsteel Colossus is out for Sphinx of the Steel Wind just so it can't be stolen by a Dack Fayden.

Shops is decent still, just a lot easier to break away from the prison now.
Pls no more shop hate

Its not a bad deck, but it's so much weaker that you barely need to run hate and can still beat it. It makes Delver and Big Blue that much worse, because they lost their best matchup.

>Unrestrict Tinker

So I sat here for a few minutes thinking about what impact this would have. And I'm pretty sure I don't want to play against VaultKey.dec in every single event.

Is it any worse than playing against 15 flavors of Mentor?

What are you guys playing?
>Mentor Miracles and Cerberus oops

What are you trying to build?
>Working on a dredge list since oops is about 60$ from being dredge anyways

What do you hate playing against?
>This guy at the shop plays 4 horsemen and ddft. He isn't smart enough for ddft and he has won about 3 games in the last 3 months with horsemen so we let him have it since it's basically a bye

Not super excited about anything in the new set, hope miracles doesnt get banned. If it does im selling the whole deck and doing a full foiling and pimping of dredge.

I'm not saying Gush decks are fun and exciting to play against, and it has gotten old pretty fast... but there's a difference between a deck that just tries to run all of the counters, and one that can likely assemble VaultKey by turn 2 in 60% of it's games.

It'll be a lot worse than what it was a few months ago when Dark Petition Storm was going crazy.

That was the worst time to be a long-time Storm player.
>Probe opponent
>Hand is
>Fetch, Mox, Mindbreak Trap, Mindbreak Trap, FoW, Misstep, Ponder
>This is Game 1
>Nigga has at least 2 maindeck Mindbreak Traps

I've been playing Vintage for awhile now but around that time was when I decided to get into MTGO.

I was away for awhile so I didn't know everyone went to Storm and Doomsday so I bought into Shops then just played that for a month. Only ever lost to Dredge but other than that I was 4-0 most of the dailies.

Then a month later I sold out and made some cash. It was a fun time.

>not smart enough for ddft
Kek. I played ddft at scg worcester. Didn't do great and ended with a roughly even record. Met another ddft player who went 0-3 drop after punting g1m1 vs my friend on shardless bug.

>What are you guys playing?
ANT.
What are you trying to build?
Idk, I've been thinking about building Grixis Delver, I just need 2 volcs and a playset of wastelands and forces, but that's still like 1.5 grand. ANT is basically my dream deck anyway, I'm just looking for a deck where I can just turn off my brain every once in a while and play. ANT can be stressful as times.
>What do you hate playing against?
Eldrazi and Miracles. Luckily Eldrazi seems to be dying down. I don't mind miracles, but it's fucking everywhere.
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Haven't looked at all the spoilers.
What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Probably nothing. If not, probably something from Miracles. I don't expect top to get banned though. That card isn't the problem and it allows nonblue decks a way to manipulate their draws.

Do you think Counterbalance is going to get the hammer?

I honestly have no idea. It depends on whether or not they want to kill miracles entirely, and banning counterbalance would most likely do the trick, but I don't think the deck is overpowered; It's just everywhere. Hopefully it will still remain a thing if something from it does get banned.

Does anything in legacy cost around 500 anymore? I finally have a job but everything budget has spiked to unreasonable prices.

lol no
even twice that is hard to come by, 2k for most tier 1 decks and 3k for stuff like BUG