Warhammer 40k General

Was rewarded with a $400 bonus for Army shit, thinking about starting a small 500pt+ selection of Orks or Chaos for Kill team and Victory is Vengeance campaigns.

Which would be a more fun playing force for small games,
> Boyz, lootas, Nobz and a Warboss
or
> PA Chaos Lord, Warp Talons, chosen, cultists?

For the armies I play against most are:

>Mix of RW/DW Dark Angels
>Spacewolves with a small TWC star but three Dreadnaughts including either Bjorn or Murderfuck,
>Imperial Guard Vetmeras with Leman Russes
>Dark Eldar Venoms on Venoms with some elites and an HQ that attempt to assault. (only one with fliers at 1500)

I'm planning to buy a second start collecting kit for my dark eldar.

Hey math hammer guys, help me out.
I'm deep striking a raider with pin point accuracy so I'm hitting a rear armour of 10, possibly but rarely 11, is 3 S5 ap2 shots better than 1 s8 ap2 shot at bs4?

Box of beakies just arrived. Starting a new chapter of spider themed Raptor's successors.

I figured, I am not sure if I will ever botherwith them. Whenever they have been used they have been picked off almost as easily as any other CSM. That is kind of why I want more Daemon Engines.

I wish they had different versions of the Heldrake in one box, the standard version looks too Khorney for me.

Defiler or Soulgrinder?

I think a Soul Grinder may do better and be more easily Nurgified. Doesnt help the Defilers case that it is 50+ points more.

Completely new player here.
What Psychic powers are the ones that do all the offensive damage? I keep seeing people referring to "Mind bullets" and shit like that but the best powers at a cursory glance seem to be the divination tree, which looks more of a support thing.

As a Ravenwing player the Heldrake can do work against stubborn 2/3+ rerollable jinks if he is bringing them. Which in turn makes it good against the even more fragile Dark Eldar.

rounding up
you will averge a pen with the S8AP2

you will average nothing/a glance with S5AP2

I think every tree has some sort of witchfire. Some are just gun statlines and some, like psychic scream are a bit different.

Well, I had a fun game of Kill Team last week, but next weekend I'm going down to London to have a bi-annual tournament with my friends (8 of us attending this time)

I need a Basilisk, a second Command Squad and an Aegis Defence Line for my guard, then I have my full 1750 list.

Try 4e. It's probably the most bloated of the 3-4-5 era, but still much faster than 7th. Might give some idea of what you want/some ideas about how to houserule 7th into being faster without losing meaningful content.

Pic related is 2e, which is more/less the opposite of what you want, but was played with smaller armies.

Maybe work up soem more high-vis option to make them more dicernibly different?

Right now support powers are generally the stronger ones.

But are there any that are substantially good beyond being a psychic version of existing weapon? Seems like a waste to try to roll for some of them when I could just buy a heavy flamer or a ranged relic for cheaper.

Even psychic scream sounds like it'll only take off a couple wounds on average.

What faction are you?

Divination is an augment tree, alone it's mediocre, and only shines with the proper unit to buff

Mind bullets is witch fires and most of the time horribly overrated.

Telepathy has one of the best Witchfires + Buffs

Pyromancy is mediocre

Telekinesis is underrated, but imo not awful. Lots of utility. If you're Marines, Telekinesis is overshadowed by the new trees

Biomancy is best on a beatstick HQ, (go to for my Daemon Princes)

Daemonology (both flavors) don't really bother unless you're Daemons or Grey Knights

Plus faction specific.

I'm joking around, user. I thought the Imperium didn't use beastmen anymore though.

Really only Daemons seem to use their powers offensively (besides people actively rolling on pyro or who happen upon Psychic Shriek as they get their invisibility)

It is much better for buffing already decent units to the next level. Abilities in Biomancy and Telepathy (or Telekensis I confuse the two often) can make a deathstar extremely scary. As well as the new Space Marine powers which can be very potent.

After I get the powers I wanted I usually dont even care if I can activate force or not.

Soul grinder is everything the defilers wished it was, pick the soul grinder.

That couple of wounds might kill some otherwise tough target like a Riptide, allowing you to shoot your grav weapons to that orher Riptide.

Sanctic daemonology has two pretty strong shooty powers, Cleansing Flame and Vortex of Doom. Though I think there's a nova power almost identical to Cleansing Flame in pyromancy.

Telekinesis and pyromancy are the shooty ones, pyromancy for hordes and telekinesis for single targets.

Still deciding on a faction.

It sounds very fun for line infantrymen like purifiers to burn things to death, and the Eldar powers also look very good all around. Haven't seen the Space Marine specific trees yet but I like the idea of psykers leading from the front and mind-crushing things.

Is good. Getting Kill Team forces painted up, almost done with the basic CSM one. Had two friends over to play a couple of weekends back for CSM vs Dark Angels, rules weren't too much for them to get their heads around. Everybody learned that sustained bolter fire will eventually kill stuff, but plasma does the job much quicker. Assorted plasma weapons claimed most of the kills (including 2 firers, of course), with the first casualties being two Chaos marines who were accidentally left in the open after their player forgot about a plasma cannon devastator up in a tower.

>I think a Soul Grinder may do better and be more easily Nurgified. Doesnt help the Defilers case that it is 50+ points more.
A defiler can take way less work than a soul grinder as you can just get a good paint job with textures instead of going all out on green stuff modeling.

>Whenever they have been used they have been picked off almost as easily as any other CSM
they are most resistance non TEQ infantry you can ever dream to get as CSM, they have FNP, T5, krak, frag, defensive grenades, poison and are small enough to get 50/75% coverage on cover most of the time, definitively take a squad if you are playing a obj game. Those things can tank more than a terminator squad while costing 7ppm less

>the standard Heldrakelooks too Khorney for me.
try puting some texture, bubbles and a good pestilence effect and you should be fine, they end up looking amasenly compared to the effort spent on it

Isn't 3rd edition the leanest of that era?

SM are...
Fuck with the battlefield
Fuck with machinery
Fuch eith electricity
Buff/Debuff

Space marines are good for that.
Daemons are all about big psychic monsters leading from the front.
Technically tyranids would count.
You can do it with rune priests with space wolves.

also i have one nurglish helldrake myself, if i was at home i'd love to show you the result.

>mfw I have a lucky d6 that almost always rolls 4s and 5s
>mfw I use it to roll on Telepathy

>idea of psykers leading from the front and mind-crushing things.
>mind-crushing things.

Dark Angels Interromancy has been really fun for me to use. It focuses on debuffing the opponent and reducing them to be smited (smote?) in close combat

>Seed of fear on a green tide or other blob of weak minded foes
>Righteous Repungence on either RW/DW command squad with a Chap in it for the Zealot, Rage.

When I play bigger games against lesser armies when my Deathwing are worth bringing I will bring 2-3 Librarians (used to be Ezekiel, a Termi Lib and a Bike Lib but I've been told the FAQ fucked nondeepstrike DW HQs) and the DW Command Squad of Ezekiel, Termi Lib, DW Banner, Apoth, Cyclones and two TH/SS terms really packed a punch, especially if we are jousting deathstars and I hit him with a mindworm. (Eze and Banner each provide +1 Attacks)

Does the psychic phase really need to be a thing, or is it just unnecessary clutter?

>A defiler can take way less work than a soul grinder as you can just get a good paint job with textures instead of going all out on green stuff modeling.
You are right, I keep getting the two confused.

The Plagued Marines do take a good few shots to get down but running around makes them slow and offensively wise they aren't too great.

I really need to L2 Textures better, though I did alright with my Nurgle Bikers and Obliterators.

At work myself so no pics but thanks for the help.

>Does the psychic phase really need to be a thing

Yes their are armies that use it as much as others use shooting.

Of course you could make it a Subphase in shooting but that just makes that Phase longer.

>Dark Angels Interromancy
Forgot pic.

It makes psykers more potent, having an extra phase for their shenanigans before the killing begins. In my opinion that's a good thing.

It's not a bad thing. It's also not that much clutter.

If you removed it, you still need to determine: Where Conjuring, Blessings, Maledictions, and Witchfires go.

Even if you went ahead and said Conjuring and Blessings at start of movement phase. Maledictions and Witchfires happen at Shooting phase.

You still have to generate Psychic dice that you have to track for the entire player turn (unless you go back to Ld test) which becomes more of an issue.

Personally I'd like the Psychic phase to be changed. Either to a similar style to WHFB (spells have a value xd6 + psyker level has to be equal or greater to manifest) or something new because right now it's pretty shitty because it's either SPAM Psykers or bring NONE

>If you removed it, you still need to determine: Where Conjuring, Blessings, Maledictions, and Witchfires go.
Away.

Fuck off tau, just because you don't have a toy doesn't mean you can have it taken off everyone else.

>Tau

>tau dont have psykers
>what are allied detatchments

So we go back to the days of 5e where each power tells you when they can go off? Aka Blessings, Maledictions, and Witchfires in everything, but name?

How is Interromancy?

Even without really cutting anything, 40k offers tons of room for things to be streamlined. A lot of USR's need to be either cut, combined, or made relevant. Fucking Soul Blaze.

>How is Interromancy?
See the RW player sperg about it with the powers.

It is ALRIGHT if you know your enemy is going to fall to you in assault it makes more of them fall to you in assault.

It can also really mess with poor leadership targets.

Dark Angel only. (And I don’t play them)

But they're petty badass, and I'd use them if I had access

Lots of Maledictions that weaken the enemy (lots that reduce WS/BS)/make snapshots plus Ld fuckery.

Soul Grinder for sure. Cheaper, tougher, more customizable.

For the most part, witchfire powers are the weakest. Psychic Shriek is the only really good core rulebook witchfire. Tzeentch Daemons are the only faction that can really do mind bullets as a major part of their game plan.

>tfw I am a RW sperg for explaining the powers and how I use them in my Deathwing
>He doesn't know about my White Scars Conclave that gets to roll on Biomancy when DA can't
Still go for invis against the top armies.

Nothing in DftS adds any time except for the dogfight phase, which is entirely random and doesn't actually require any meaningful user input.

I really hate modelling.

And painting.

And making terrain.

Why do I even play this game

>Nothing from DftS adds time
>Except that phase they added

We don't use it regularly at my shop either, I have only seen it in use once and it was the store owner testing it out with his brother.

I have heard mixed results but mostly that it is not needed and only adds to clutter your thoughts.

That said some one told me my Dark Angel fliers got stronger but I have not bothered to look into it, though I do have three.

The Zoanthrope shoots mind bullets that take out Land Raiders. Considering its one of Tyranids' three useful units, I'd say that qualifies nids as another psyker army.

because you probably like all those things but you're just terrible at them. perhaps your meta is bad or your army is bad. maybe you should leave 40k alone for a month then come back to it

I started a Tau army.

Right now, my biggest desire is for a unit with "get in their face" ability. That's what I've been wanting the most in my games so far.

What should I take for that?

Devilfish for my FWs? Piranha? Something else?

Crisis suits seem too squishy to use them that aggressively, the only way I've been able to get them close to something without dying is deep strike and then JSJ into cover. I could give them 4++/FnP but they don't seem worth the points.

That's still going to be one or two units in a normal army. Tzeentch Daemons, especially in the Warpflame Host, manifest several times that.

>perhaps your meta is bad or your army is bad. maybe you should leave 40k alone for a month then come back to it

Playing is the one part I do like

I just hate all the steps to get there

>Tau
>Want to "get in their face"

The Wise Shas'len'ra would say it is better to stay away from the face for a clearer shot at the head.

Even in the DftS supplement it says the dogfight phase is optional. If you want to resolve it faster, just roll a D6 against your opponent. Whoever rolls higher gets to make a shooting attack from 36". Then the phase ends and you continue as usual. That's pretty much what the dogfight phase boils down to anyway, except with a lot more tables and blind "choices."

Just use naked Crisis. Point for point, they are basically Assault Marines. Just make sure you don't use them vs specialised melee units.

oh in that case just pay someone

a couple of crisis suits with flamers might work, but i wouldn't get into cqc if i were you. there's a reason why your army has ws2 and most people laugh at the thought of tau getting into combat

Just use Crisis Suits in a Farsight Enclave. Stick in a handful of Flamers and no one will try to charge you first.

>Codex: Spamlist or Lose
>Normal army

Personally, I think Breachers should count as firing at point-blank range in overwatch.

I didn't mean melee, I just have a hard time getting close in general. Firewarriors can rain fire within 15", but mine tend to die long before they ever get that close. Crisis suits can have RF plasma, but unless I deep strike or load them down with points/drones, they never live long enough to deliver those extra shots.

I want something that can get 6-18" away, or so, and not die long before getting there.

That would make supporting fire weird.

Overwatch could just replace your melee attacks and occur at I10, though. Most units with overwatch worth giving a shit about don't have melee to care about anyways. Those that do probably need the nerf anyways.

If it was up to me, I'd redesign 40k from the ground up. Find a way to balance assault and shooting, redefine the psychic phase (or maybe remove it), kill the AP creep, condense and cut USRs, make vehicles less garbage and fix other stuff that needs to be fixed.

They should just put it in the BRB that all Overwatch attacks are resolved at either 4" or 8" range, depending on how much the guy writing the rules likes Meltaguns.

I for one would support a new weapon type that can be fire in CC.

I'd let pistols in on it, too, and it would hit based on BS against WS.

Might slightly nerf assaulting (wouldn't be a significant nerf because not many units fit the bill), but would make assaulting viable for some of those units that would never do it before.

When did wargear become so commonplace? It was only a few editions ago that a 10 man squad of Tacticals with just bolters cost 140 points.

>I for one would support a new weapon type that can be fire in CC.
Just roll Cypher's special rule into Gunslinger.

Can anyone tell me where on the overall tier list would Dark Angels, Imperial Guard and Tyranids be?
Like - OP > Good > Bad > Shit

We need a purge.

Put Matt Ward, two rules writers from Warmachine, one top-tier 40k player, and one six year old in a room. Don't let them out until they have a new rulebook written.

>I started a Tau army.
>Right now, my biggest desire is for a unit with "get in their face" ability. That's what I've been wanting the most in my games so far.

translation: I really want to play assault, but my tiny penis forces me to succumb to waac urges, so I chose Tau.

Winning is more important than fun!
-every Taufaggot ever

You're a disgrace, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

DA can take Grav weapons since they're in C:SM, right? If so, they're OP. IG are mediocre, and Tyranids are OP (but boring as shit to play as or against) if they take nothing but Flyrants, and shit tier if they take anything else.

hello fa/tg/uys, complete newcomer to 40k and wargaming in general.

So i´ve finnaly bit down the bullet and ordered pic related at my flgs. Im aware of the position the greenskins are in the moment but their fluff and look of the models just click so well with me like no other army in 40k.

So finally my question for you all, how should i equip the dudes in this box? And also what other units should i get down the line?

I wanna build a rather good list from the start so my oppenents dont have to pull all their punches that far back when playing against me and they dont stomp me by default

>nids are OP

New IG player here. Can anyone help me work out a solid 1000pt list to collect towards in a marine-heavy local meta?

I'm about 1 week away from finishing my current project, I cant decide what to do next. Help me choose /40kg/.

Finish Blood Angels: 15 Death Company with jump packs, and 12 HQ models.

or

Finish DKoK: 2 Veteran Squads, 16 HQ/support models, and 3 Thudd Guns + 15 crew.

>potato of unfinished Blood Angels army

DA have their own codex but they do have access to Grav on both their tacticals (I think Devastators) and bikers though they do not have centurions.

3 Ravenwing Bikers with scout and a rerollable jink save with 2 Grav Guns and a Combi Grav come out to 115pts I believe.

IG is pretty much Middle of the middle tier. Though against an army that lacks significant anti-whatever IG feels like spamming they can perform very well.

For tyranids if you aren't playing Big Bug Flyrant Spam then the army is essentially nothing and will be shot off the field soon rather than later.

Real talk, that'd probably work. The WarmaHordes designers would bring external balance, Matt Ward would bring internal balance, the 40k player would bring IRL experience and the six year old can bring something.

Start with 2 Wyverns. Pask in a Punisher with the ignores cover Leman Russ as his sidekick.
Maybe Vets in Chimeras with Plasma guns.

The Nobs are not even worth assembling, maybe take Kombi shootas on them and use them as Flash Gitz stand-ins.

The boys themselves are up to you, all you need to remember is match their weapons, so if they are shoota boys either skip special weapons or take a big shoota
If you go with slugga boys skip special weapons or take a rokkit launcha.

The Deff dredd should have 3 close combat weapons and a Skorcha.

The only problems I have with GWs handling of AoS was resetting the fluff, and the slow rollout of actual playable rules.

If GW gave 40k an AoS style rules reboot, without shitcanning armies or rewriting the fluff, I'd be cautiously excited.

Warmashit is just as unbalanced as 40k
Don't bring those hacks anywhere near this already destroyed game

it's hard to build a good list out of that box when 3/4 of the units it has are bad.

Just don't waste points putting guns on the deff dread, the nobz, or the boyz - you want all those gitz in cc as fast as possible. Just kit everything out for melee

>units should i get down the line?

A Trukk for the boyz and a unit of grots to fill your troop requirements.

Three boxes of Warbikes and a Warboss (put Painboy and Warboss on their own bikes)

Deff Dreads are pretty shitty, the two big claws and two flamers or a third claw and a flamer will let it hit stuff in close combat if it ever gets there.

Mega Nobz in a battlewagon are alright, only 5-6 of them and maybe a CQC HQ can do work for a hefty amount of points.

A garbage can for the nobz im the start collecting. That isn't an ork unit, it is the fucking trash.

I can tell where you guys stopped reading.

Fire warriors with Pulse carbines
Crisis suits
Stealth suits
Gun drones
Piranhas
Deepstriking units
HAZARD SUITS
HAZARD SUITS
HAZARD SUITS
Y'VAHRA
RA'LAI

one good unit does not an army make, it's like a daemon prince only a tad less powerful due to how much you can pile on a prince

perhaps you shouldn't be making statements like that then

You want us to give the one word answer for each of the armies? OP, Good, Bad, shit or are you the original because if not I was also talking to him and in agreement over your assessment of Tyranids.

I dont care for WM/Hordes, and it def has balance issues. But it is no where near the level of shitshow that 40k is.

WH40k as a game is well past stupid right now. The disparity between armies is so drastic, its hard to imagine the GW studio being ok with the game existing in its current state. I take a lot of pride in the quality of my work, and to a lesser degree, the speed at which I complete it.
Games Workshop apparently takes pride in nothing.

I dunno about you, but I've heard it has great external balance, but really really shitty internal balance. Of course, I wouldn't trust the 40k general to give an unbiased opinion about this subject.

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