Why are shields so much cooler than life points?

Maybe you don't understand.

Say you have two cards, one that costs 2 to cast and 5 to cast from the mana zone. Another that costs 3 to cast but costs 4 from the mana zone. Both produce the same effect. The aim is to have it so it's optimal to have a mixture of these cards, like it's optimal to have a mixture of lands and spells in MtG. Though unlike MtG, the impact of a bad draw isn't nearly as crippling.

I'm saying that there should be some penalty for bad deck construction, but it shouldn't be as high as in MtG since it can still happen through a bad draw.

But then you're putting in card to be used as mana. i.e. Lands. It also doesn't solve the issue the mana system actually had, which is the "correct choice" issue.

Even if you only have to make a real decision about which card to use as mana every once in a while, that is still more than what you do in MtG. And the point is that you're NOT always going to use it as mana, because you're not always going to have a good draw.

If that still doesn't address the issue, then please explain exactly what you mean by
>the issue the mana system actually had, which is the "correct choice" issue.

OK, you have a card that costs 5 and has reburst for 3 and a card that costs 3 and reburst 5, let's say. Then let's say then have the same effect, like earlier. It is ALWAYS the correct choice to play the 5 cost as a land.

Early game, you don't have the mana so it's useless, so you use it as a land instead.

Late game, you use it as a land because it allows you to play both cards for cheaper then just outright playing them from hand.

It is the correct choice to charge the 5-drop. To do otherwise is an outright suboptimal play.

Reburst costs would never be lower than casting costs.

But the point still applies. You just work out which one would cost less mana overall and that's your play. Which means there isn't REALLY a choice between deciding to play a card as a land or to use it as an actual card. There wasn't then and there still wouldn't be now. Stop pretending the mana system was perfect because it wasn't.

Was sure as shit better than Magic's though

I don't know DM but does counterspell exists ? Or mana disruption? Because if that's the case, the reburst case would not be always the optimal play, right?

There is one other small advantage to the "everything has reburst" approach: it gives you another axis to fine-tune balance along. You can't always get a card to be on exactly the same power level as other cards when the resource system has such large increments, but increasing/decreasing the reburst cost of a card can let you lightly nudge its power level in the desired direction.

LD does, but there are no counters. Everything happens at sorcery speed.

Is shield trigger a good mechanic? It seems like it'd be too swingy and every shield trigger card would need to be around the same strength to be balanced because they all cast for exactly zero when triggered.

I see. Made me thinking that from a design perspective a mana counterspell could be interesting. I do like instant speed.

I guess there's that too. Cards whose impact is compromised by being revealed beforehand would have lower increases on their rebursts. But there isn't many things like that in a game with no instants.

Well i guess they didn't have the time to explore the mechanics. Plus Land/Mana destruction, like in mtg, isn't really liked by players.

The worst thing about land destruction is that it can randomly lock you out, but that can't happen in duel masters because you always have cards that can be used as mana.

I wish WotC didn't kill this twice in the West. Some friends and I still play Kaijudo from time to time though, since it's our favorite card game.

I never really liked Kaijudo because I thought DM was the better game. It's still going strong today over in grorious Nippon and some of the stuff they do with their design space is clever as hell. They play fast and loose with what a card is, like, all the time.

>Even if you only have to make a real decision about which card to use as mana every once in a while, that is still more than what you do in MtG

not true at this point

There are five mechanics that involve shields. There are only like two things you can do with life.

plan for the unexpected
one of my old decks had lots of bounce effects and a few draw power cards as well, if i was backed into a corner i would simply bounce the offending monster then do it again the turn after

>They play fast and loose with what a card is, like, all the time.
Care to elaborate on this?

What is this Game called again?

Duel Masters

All sorts of crazy shit.
>tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/100530619404/duel-masters-triple-faced-cards#permalink

Huh, no idea if I like that concept or not. Definitely neat though. What's the deal with the ones in your image, do they link up to form a super god?

>do they link up to form a super god?
Pretty much.

Also of note, everything has silly chunnibyou names.
Pic related is "All Over The World, Supreme True Dragon Soul"

Are there any rpg's you can think of that use something like the shield mechanic instead of hit points?

no

Huh, so how in the fuck does that work for pulling it from a pack along with the triple sided card? Or do they just sell them in a tin or precon? The split stuff would work if you don't have a limited format, but that triple sided card would be too easy to see in a pack

They came from non-randomized packs. (duelmasters.wikia.com/wiki/DMX-18_Triple_Shifter!_Dragsolution_Allstars)
Though beyond being non-random, each pack from that set had exactly one triple-faced card in it.

Holy shit, that's pretty great thinking for something that doesn't go in your deck.

Like, I could see this becoming a thing for Schemes in Conspiracy 2 or 3.

FATE uses stress?

It's still alive and kicking in japan.

wtf are these cards?
i stopped playing the set after "Survivors of the Apocalypse" or something.the set that had the 15000 triple breaker dragon card.

There's also that one nigger with power attacker +1 billion.

Duel Masters is where WotC puts all of their ideas that are too crazy for MtG, except they sometimes escape back into MtG and that's how we got Meld.

Also, Duel Masters has a keyword called "world breaker" that lets a creature break ALL of the defending player's shields. There is more than one creature that has this ability.

Mabye, cause the official murica/west version of the animu is an abriged one?

I love the West's version of the animu.

That's not always bad.
Case in point? Ghost Stories. I've WATCHED it subbed, and it was complete shit.

How would that even work? The entire point of shields is how they work with cards.

Anyone in here played Wixoss? Because it uses card shields as well (Life Cloth). Actually, if DM was at all similar, I'm kind of sad I missed out.

Some rpg's use cards, user. Mostly for keeping track of powers or spells though.

The big differences with Duel Masters is that you select which shield to break and they go to the hand instead. This is important for cards that modify individual shields.

You have cards that turn a shield into a pile of cards, resulting in more gains and potential triggers when it breaks. You have cards that tie themselves to specific shields and have added effects as long as it remains intact, or are destroyed when that shield is gone. There is removal that works by sending enemy creatures to the shield zone. And there are some cards that turn into face-up shields when they die, which gain abilities but are discarded instead of going to the hand when broken.

from .
Poster children for the "God Link" mechanic.
That's all you really need to know.

from ,
Both of these cards were released in english, I just couldn't find a decent scan.
They are "Soulswap" and "Bombazar, Dragon of Destiny", both of which are pretty interesting.

>Bombazar, Dragon of Destiny
>(This creature is put into your mana zone tapped.)
>When you put this creature into the battle zone, destroy all other creatures that have 6000 power. Take an extra turn after this one. You lose the game at the end of that turn.
>Speed attacker (This creature doesn't get summoning sickness.)
>Double breaker (This creature breaks 2 shields.)
A hasted double-breaker with final fortune stapled on.

So, the Duel Masters marketing team likes big stompy flagship monsters. The top rares of every set are always made for Timmy.
But that's a problem, because all the original big stompy dudes were really shit. The meta was just swarming and swarming and swarming.
To get around this they made bigger and stompier creatures in hopes of making one just stompy enough to be playable.
Bomby was the first big stompy creature that wasn't shit.

It turns out that the line between unplayable and playable was actually the line between unplayable and broken.
It and literally any other attacker will be enough to immediately close a game against an unharmed opponent.

In practice you have multiple creatures and they aren't unharmed, so even 3 good shield triggers won't stop Bomby.

>Soulswap
>Shield trigger (When this spell is put into your hand from your shield zone, you may cast it immediately for no cost.)
>You may choose a creature in the battle zone and put it into its owner's mana zone. If you do, choose a non-evolution creature in that player's mana zone that costs the same as or less than the number of cards in that mana zone. That player puts that creature into the battle zone.
If this cost 5 and had no shield trigger it would still be gamebreaking.

...

did you have more of this?its awesome.

also aww.moe/2jr00y.webm

That's precisely why and how I got into Duelmasters.