/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>What attracts you to your favorite line?

Mummy inverts the traditional RPG power scale (you have a demigod at character creation with your power waning as time passes, and every character has an entire organization subservient to them), gives you an excuse to fuck around the entirety of human history, and tickles my Egyptomaniacal side. The background mythology is dense but satisfying.

The tough part is finding other people to play it.

It would be extremely painful.

>Does the attainment allow you to substitute mana for reach to cast at sensory range?
No. If you are already casting at sensory range, you have the option of filling a yantra slot with a sympathetic yantra (giving no dice bonuses) and spending a mana to cast at sympathetic range.

>For the conditional duration does the rank increase also apply for advanced duration?
Yes.

>What if a 'common occurrence' is longer than the duration increase.
The spell expires when duration does. Conditional Duration also makes your spells weak to Fate as it can force the condition to trigger.

>For example I cast a Mind 2 normal duration sleep spell on a security guard with the condition that he sleeps until the sun rises. That's more than likely that's a certainty but dawn being a couple hours away may not qualify for immediate. Would he doze until dawn or for like 10 turns?
Several turns. Keeping regular duration is more useful for tactical uses like traps.

>No. If you are already casting at sensory range, you have the option of filling a yantra slot with a sympathetic yantra (giving no dice bonuses) and spending a mana to cast at sympathetic range.

I'm not sure if I'm following. Does that mean you're casting at something sympathetically tied to the guy you're in sensory range from? Like shake the hand of a politician to metaphorically or literally kick their spouse in the dick?

It means that you need to spend the reach for the spell to be cast at Sensory Range, but there might be ways around that with attainments and artifacts. It's just a different way of mechanically representing that this spell costs +1 Reach.

Eh not quite. Mage is about learning secrets about how the world really works, Genius is about transgressing boundaries while being incapable of reaching the truth.

Alright let me see if I got this correct.

With 2 dots in Space I still need to spend reach to move a spell to sensory range.

If I'm casting at a target I cannot sense I must spend 1 reach to move the spell to sensory range, use a Yantra slot for the connection I'm casting at e.g. their name, current picture, spouse, blood or hair, etc. (that provides no dice bonus), and spend one mana.

Whats the deal with Dice Bonuses? Is it that only equipment is subject to the max +5 bonus rule, since it is located in the Equipment section of the CofD Corebook? But then on page 78 of the same book, it talks about clues going above the "normal +5 limit on dice bonuses." Is it +5 in total or from any one source?

And the best question is: If dice bonuses are so goddamn important across the games, why place it under the fucking equipment section when it could be placed under Playing the Game for more clarity?

>>What attracts you to your favorite game line?
W20 was my first real step away from D&D. Honestly we were originally just killing time before 5E... I didn't expect to enjoy this so much (we ended up ditching 5th completely). The modern setting made it easy to relate to my character, I like the grey vs grey morality, and the system itself makes a lot more sense to me as a person who cares more about roleplay and less about min-maxing character sheets.

Correct. And the spell will be Withstood by the connection strength even if it normally doesn't have a Withstand rating. If it does, it will be withstood by the highest rating +1 for each other source.

Awesome, thanks.

>Rolling Dice
>Many rolls have modifiers, either from equipment, circumstance, or someone working against your character. Most modifiers are within the range of +3 to –3, though they can range as low as –5 or as high as +5. Apply the modifiers to your dice pool before you roll. Add all the bonuses first, then apply penalties.

Any source of Dice Modifiers is subject to the +/-5 Rule.

Being a promethean fan is suffering.

Why am I not surprised?

It's a LARPing aid.

The new edition looks super good, user. Do not despair!

>Game dies before it even begins
>again

Why is WoD so full of noncommittal people

it isn't
online gaming is
it looks very bad, another beast failur

Hopefully OP can redeem themselves with Deviant.

that looks promising

How? It's Black Hat Matt.

>What attracts you to your favorite game line?
Mage, for fighting against the forces of chaos and disorder with hypertech while trying to keep from drowning in a whirlpool of internal politics, espionage, and deep secrets.

...I mean, it's a little weird that they names the game line after the antagonists, but hey, it was the 90s.

You people are dumb. It looks good. I'm especially interested in the way Transmutations are being handled.

Shut up, Amy.

it really doesn't look good
especially the way the dev/writers are handling everything, which is the same way they handled beast
"its perfect! if you see something wrong with it your the problem!"

But that's literally been Promethean from day one. You either accept the "you want to be a real boy" aspect or you don't play a game about being Pinocchio. Beyond that, I honestly don't understand the notion that the devs should change their game anyway. There are plenty of people who like Promethean. There are also plenty of people who don't "get" it. The game isn't for them.

Wasn't the first Promethean Dev Blog all about that? "It's all about the buy-in"?

You're missing the point, m8
It's not that the devs are saying "it's all about the buy-in, don't play it if you don't like the themes"
It's that the devs are saying "everything is working as intended, there are absolutely no issues with anything we've written at all, playtester feedback is obviously wrong"

As far as I'm aware there hasn't really been any playtester feedback yet. What are you talking about?

I might be confusing it with Beast, but I remember people talking a while back about how they submitted playtest feedback to the devs, and barely anything changed between their playtest copy and the final game.
Hence why things such as "Behold, My True Form" or w/e exist; the devs didn't pay any attention to playtesters, so you have a horribly unbalanced game where some powers are objectively worth more than several other powers combined.

>I remember people talking a while back about how they submitted playtest feedback to the devs, and barely anything changed between their playtest copy and the final game.
Obviously, I'm referring specifically to Beast, here, but I remember people saying something along the same lines about different versions of playtest packets they got, where nothing changed from one to the other despite the feedback they gave.

With or without Auspex, do Vampires know when other Vampires are using non-obvious diciplines?

No.

>you have a horribly unbalanced game where some powers are objectively worth more than several other powers combined.
To be fair, that's most games.

I know Matt especially has an attitude of "unless it caused a problem in play, it's not a problem". Which is... generous, to say the least. I don't mind things like Merits that give other Merits, because stuff like Mystery Cult has an implicit "work with your ST" caveat, but powers that are less impressive than other powers (two powers that open Doors, but one can put a Condition on the subject) and powers that can do way more than they're worth (giving anything Soulless, even if it can't be Soulless) are just bad form. Especially when there's obvious bad interactions that could cause problems, like creating a plague of Soullessness (sidenote: I've forgotten how to do that and don't want to skim through all the Nightmares to check if its still possible).

I'm not actually sure what the problem with "Behold, My True Form!" is. I mean, unless you mean how the Dragonfire one is better as an attack. It's actually pretty bland compared to Matt's attitude towards combat powers, and how they should be flashy. Oh wait, there's no per-turn Satiety limit, is there?

>Would this guy work as a Malk?
No. Because it is fucking silly.
Rule #1 of making Malkavians: Don't be silly.

>about transgressing boundaries while being incapable of reaching the truth.
That sounds a LOT like Mage to me.

Is it every single bonus, or all bonuses put together?

Honestly I don't think the developers know, and they keep it vague so that you don't question it.

The more I play this game, the shoddier it looks.

Especially 2nd edition, which had to be rushed after CCP surprise-announced that they'd accept a 2nd edition.

Honestly I love 2e for the most part, even in the places where it does seem like they missed things (Firearms now only has the size of the Firearm as Defense in melee, if its large). But that rule was the same in 1e.

Oh, I love it, but I'd have preferred it if OPP had been given the chance to make a proper edition out of it.

Then you know nothing about Mage.

Hubris, transgression, is at the CORE of Mage. That's the main theme.

Hubris is, trangression? Not as much, while still present. In any case you're missing the main divide. Mage is about learning supernatural Truths and enlightening yourself in ancient mysteries. Genius is about having your perceptions permamently skewed and losing the ability to touch base with objective reality.

>In any case you're missing the main divide. Mage is about learning supernatural Truths and enlightening yourself in ancient mysteries.
And thinking you are some kind of god who doesn't need to care about the rules of mortals.

Well sure.

And being right to think so.

Exactly my point!

Mages as a group tend to think rules don't, or shouldn't, apply to them. This grows to include stuff like "don't truck with the abyss", and stuff like that, since they know they are above that kind of shit. Hilarity then ensues.
Transgression of rules is at the core of Mage.

Yeah but thats sort of a different kind of transgression.

"I'm a god, I do what I want" is a bit of a different theme than "My Hydroelectric Telescope is powered by orphans."

Not really. Both are "fuck what the majority think, I'm right."

No, that's "I'm a God, I do what I want", the other is "I'm an insane Scientist, I do what I want".

Your quibble is over nothing.
Mage and Genius are very, very similar thematically. With Mage tending to have its head in the clouds a bit more.

>Mage and Genius are very, very similar thematically. With Mage tending to have its head in the clouds a bit more.
Yes, exactly! Same themes, but different trappings!

The difference between Mage and Genius:
Mage: "fuck what the majority think, I'm right, because I can see the Truth and it says I'm right"
Genius: "fuck what the majority think, I'm right, because this shit works like my theories say it would"

For the most part, yeah.

Same thing. Different trappings,

Nah. They're similiar, but their themes go in opposite directions in a few places, the biggest of which is Mages powers let them see the Truth, and Geniuses powers keep them from seeing the Truth.

Nah, one sees the Truth while the other thinks they see the Truth, but not really.
And one has to shy away from public use of their powers else Paradox eats their existence off the universe while the other can rampage downtown with their steam automata/freeze ray.

If you still see them as the same, might as well say that Vampire and Beast are same as well.

I think it probably wouldn't have turned out much better. I mean, they got the go-ahead to do the corebook and it took ages, but it was still half a reprint.

>If you still see them as the same, might as well say that Vampire and Beast are same as well.

Because they hunger, you mean?
Oh please. Hunger is a side-point in Vampire. It's the predatory mindset that rules the themes of Vampire. That and "Every other vampire will one day either be dead or a threat to me".

Beast has an inclusive mindset, Vampire has an exclusive. IMPORTANT difference.

So how is the no discipline rule enforced in Elysium?

Nothing flashy.
"In a closed society where everyone is guilty the only crime is getting caught."

Or why go to Elysium at all? Auspex 2 can reveal so much about someones intentions so it would be wiser just to be a hermit and not attend.

oWoD: is it possible to use Dominate on werewolves? I can't remember any rules for it and whether or not they are immune to it

What's a good damage measure for a speeding truck striking a vampire in the WoD? Is it soakable lethal? Halve-able, soakable bashing?

Questions like this makes me glad I'm playing CofD.

I'd say at this point this would be lethal, soakable, but if the impact was high, then good luck soaking 15 lethal damage or something like that

IIRC, you can use it, but they might have garbage Gift-shit or some other bullshit to mitigate or protect against it.

Fuck Lupines. You're better off just slaughtering the brutes.

Do people use the "Beaten Down & Surrender" rules?

I can't seem my players being to happy having to constantly spend Willpower to stick around in a fight after a comparatively minor beating, or a mild wound.

>You're better off just slaughtering the brutes.
You got any choice methods you'd like to share with the class?

No, because honestly I don't understand how to apply them to groups.

Could you elaborate?

Fair point. And do you think that's enough of the kind of damage needed to cause Final Death, or just render the target Torpid?

Is it just me who is stupid, or do Mages have a seriously hard time scrutinizing things now?

Especially compared to Changelings, if one looks up the playtest doc.

Use that Dominate you were mentioning to coax a bunch of random thugs to attempt to kill them in random acts of violent crime. Tailor your choice of thugs to the Lupine in question (Skinheads for an ethnic Lupine, Gangstaz for Whitey, etc.) If you want to get crazy, use SWAT teams or ISIL sleeper cells instead.

Oh yeah, definitely. Even falling damage can be lethal if you fall from a 20 floor building. And that can definitely cause enough damage to put someone into torpor. After all, if you get 20 lethal damage and only soak like 3, that's gonna put you into torpor, if not outright kill you

I was asking about Dominate, not him. And yeah, I was wondering whether there are any rules regarding werewolves. I'm guessing generation doesn't matter, but what about a frenzied werewolf? Do regular frenzy rules apply (+2 to diff to Dominate, he gets -2 diff to resist)?

we're not talkking about the buy in
we're talking about the rest of the game

>I can't seem my players being to happy having to constantly spend Willpower to stick around in a fight after a comparatively minor beating, or a mild wound.
the rule is there so they know it's not a minor beating they're going to get, that they're gonna be getting hit for 4 boxes a pop and maybe they should get out of the dungeons/dragons mindset

I interpret it as both. From one thing under normal condition max +5 and total +5 as well, but that is after counting all penalties. So for instance -3, -2, +2, +4, +5 would give total +5, not +6.

It didn't work so in 1e at least, in the example of how Physical Intensity (then called Physical Augmentation) works, the Prince spends 3 Vitae, and gets +6 to all Strength-based dice pools.

I think that damage rolls are one of exceptions. What I said I think applies mainly to skill rolls.

Can mages with "mage sight" see if others have awakened or sleepers without knowing them at all?

I'd say prime sight would show that. Every other sight would see a mages nimbus when they start casting a spell.

As someone who was really into Mage 1e, but can't grasp 2e... Could someone please explain to me how Scrutiny works now?

Werewolves are not immune to mental influence, and the gifts to make them resist are few and far in-between.

Shell (Rank 3 ; Metis) | Mindblock (Rank 4 ; Silver Fang) | Resist Temptation (Rank 2 ; Stargazer)

You act like vehicle on vampire combat isn't a thing that happens in CofD as well.

"Beaten Down" is mostly for NPCs, or players who are playing non-combat and/or weak characters who can't handle a real fight. Someone used to pain and danger can shrug it off and not get the Tilt, but for a lot of characters, they've never experienced violence.
"A substantial portion of your health" also isn't minor, and most blows will deal like four damage.

How so? How do Changelings even Scrutinize in the first place? Mages get a ridiculous amount of info from scrutiny, and can do it better than anyone.

What are you confused about?

>You act like vehicle on vampire combat isn't a thing that happens in CofD as well.
generatorrex.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter_Cain
Just replace all instances of the word EVO with Vampire.

A gun that makes the Vitae of a Vamp explosively combust inside their body when you shoot them with it shouldn't be too had to pull off, should it?

Pretty sure that's a VALKYRIE weapon

>How so? How do Changelings even Scrutinize in the first place? Mages get a ridiculous amount of info from scrutiny, and can do it better than anyone.

At Clarity 4+ they get a free reflexive fact check based on Clarity.

Clarity is a broken-good thing to have in 2e, at high levels it boosts perception checks, AND you can add it when you spend Willpower to resist, instead of the +3/-2 that you'd normally get.

Just an fyi, Genius is literally a MtAs fan who got super buttmad about the lack of a Technocracy in MtAw and deciding to make them himself
It's literally just Mage with different trappings

I want this technocracy meme to end

It's not a meme, it's a single shitposter.

Mages get unseen senses for everything. Kenning is not exactly Scrutiny. Though "one yes or no question" could probably be cleared up. "Is this a vampire?" sort of undermines the Exceptional effect.

>M:TAs

I enjoy the philosophical question of "if what everyone believes in is right, whats the best thing to believe in?"

also there's a lot of "Humanity Fuck Yeah!" involved given mages are practically normal humans.

and the memes.

...I just now realized why user above was so hard on transgression being a Genius-only theme. I had completely forgotten that it was part of the name.