MaRo calls BfZ his worst set in a decade

Good bait sir.
MaRo calls everything a mistake.

He needs to quit and take Beyer, Stoddard, Forsythe and Jarret with him.

But Bfz was just more dragons of tarkir

And who is going to do his job better?

Wat?
Just because you didn't like both doesn't mean they were the same thing.

He seems pretty positive despite it all. His Drive to Work Podcast is pretty good for understanding his place in the company and his ideas about design.

People had been clamoring for a wedge set for years. The only problems with KTK were that nobody cares about morph, and Rhino was too pushed. That's it.

I had a good time at Bfz prerelease and won packs. I played both and they were basically the same.

He gets a fair number of successes between those failures.
Tg is just full of haters

Khans is literally the best set I've ever played

How?
Repeating a statement does not count as evidence for that statement

Why, so you can shit on it too?

Alara was almost okay because it at least provided some benefit to playing 3 colors. Tarkir was just a shitton of shitty cards to force people to buy dual lands.

>People had been clamoring for a wedge set for years.

Yeah, like 3% of the player base. By those criteria we ought to make a set where you get to grope the other players' man-tits when you cast a sorcery because 3% of the population are homosexuals.

What was wrong with Alara?

So you just started playing Magic? Good to know.

Both sets were full of jank cards and big bombs without any way to interact properly with said big bombs. Many archetypes of magic were flat out missing or crippled and the actual set mechanics for both blocks were unplayably bad in their own limited format.

Where are you pulling your bullshit numbers from? Before KTK was announced, you could ask anyone at FNM if they wanted a wedge set, and at the very least they'd want it for more tri-commanders.

I 3-0'd multiple FNMs without using fetches during KTK. I didn't pay more than $2 for a single card in my Mardu deck, and the only reason I had Monastery Mentors in Jeskai was through trades. What's that meme about TG and Magic?

Mythics

First set of the NWO

Yeah but now go back to all his posts where he shills for how awesome BFZ will be.

Do that and tell me which one he believes.

I don't know how he didn't see this coming

There was almost nothing interesting about the set

Clearly the opinion that came later, after the set's reception and standard/draft play. Do you not understand mistakes or regret as a concept? Much less, how time works?

Yeah, Mark's Mark. We knew this.

No. You idiot. My point is he's just telling the consumers what they want to hear.

BFZ IS AWESOME IT WILL SUCK YOUR DICK BUY ALL THE PACKS
>it comes out, people hate it
ITS FINE GUYS I HATE IT TOO, LOL. IM SO RELATEABLE AND I UNDERSTAND YOU, BUY MORE PACKS, I'LL BE BETTER NEXT TIME.

I'm like weirdly hyped for Kaladesh and hoping that R&D still hasn't learned from their mistakes of past artifact-based blocks

>nobody cares about morph
I do...

So Standard exists to pander to fucking Commander players now?

< $2 a card can still add up to $119.40 for your deck, user. Assuming it was tournament legal.

I wasn't talking about fetchlands, either.

> got expensive cards through trades
> won at a shitty set

I am happy for you, as much as I can be happy for some random stranger on teh internet, but that doesn't disprove Khan's shittiness. Someone is always going to win FNM. That doesn't meant the set was well-made or fun to play.

At least he admits it

I bet New Phyrexia invades and Jacetice League save the world.

MaRo has said that every set will feature the Jacetice League from now on

I smell Hasbro pushing a cast for the MTG movie

Yeah, Mark's Mark. We knew this.

Have you ever interacted with a human being in your life? Because what you describe is clearly not what is happening here.

>fetches
>Sarkhan rehabilitated
>we wuz kahnz n shit

It wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't bad.

That's not even what he fucking said. Look, I know you guys need a scapegoat but come on. He does enough actually wrong that you don't need to just make stuff up out of your ass.

>and at the very least they'd want it for more tri-commanders.
>So Standard exists to pander to fucking Commander players now?
Learn to read. Lots of people wanted a wedge set for more than just commander, obviously. I'm not going to make up numbers like "3%", but you'd have been hard pressed to find somebody pre-KTK who wouldn't be mildly interested in a wedge set.

>No. You idiot. My point is he's just telling the consumers what they want to hear.
Yes. That's his job. He's not going to keep his job if he says a set is garbage before it comes out.
>ITS FINE GUYS I HATE IT TOO, LOL. IM SO RELATEABLE AND I UNDERSTAND YOU, BUY MORE PACKS, I'LL BE BETTER NEXT TIME.
Jesus Christ, do you actually think this is how he thinks? He is not the entire marketing division of WotC. I don't even know how to defend him when you're this hard-set to hate him. Try actually reading his tweets and listen to his podcast if you want a real take on maro, and not some kind of strawman that you've scrabbled together from teegee

>pre-KTK who wouldn't be mildly interested in a wedge set.

There will always be people who lap up WotC's shit. Especially standard players who are willing to drop 1000 bucks on a goddamn deck.

Now, if you are the guy who ran something without special lands and won, then perhaps I judged too early. My only experience with KTK was two drafts that I came close to winning in, then got fucked by horrible draws. I was using the same kind of mana mix I used in my Alara decks, too. And in both sets I was effective in about 50% of games.

Should I have built a mono deck? Maybe, but from what I've seen it's a been a long time since monocolor has been truly viable in Standard.

What kind of math is that? Basic lands are a thing. IIRC, this is what I paid for Mardu cards at the time.

Butcher of the Horde- $1
Zurgo Helmsmasher- 2
Bloodsoaked Champion- 2
Crackling Doom- 2
Utter End- 2

The rest of the cards were common and
uncommons. That's $36 for those rares. No fetches, no Thought-seize, no Anger of the Gods. The Mentors didnt come until later.

Me too. It is one of my favorite mechanics. When I heard it was coming back I had high hopes.

>he judges people on not being filthy netdeckers

Khans was a difficult draft environment. You probably just didn't know how to draft it.

>Dredge
>Prowess
>worse mechanics
I will agree with you that the flavor did suck, especially in Dragons.

>Khans was a difficult draft environment.. You probably just didn't know how to draft it.

I certainly did not. But drafts are the only place I can play and have a fair shot instead of getting buttfucked by players who netdeck and drop 1k on a deck every time the standard rotation goes through.

60 x 1.99 is 119.40... I think.

You said you paid less than 2 bucks per card. Minimum deck size is 60 cards. I was going to assume basic lands but honestly the math was quicker that way.

36 bucks for a deck isn't bad. I hope you won your money back.

Eldrazi are awful and boring. Who cares about a bunch of giant mushroom tentacles things that have no character or motivation.

>Destroying the last re-visited world work out so well. Lets do it again!

>Oh you didn't want that one trashed?

>Ok. Lets destroy another.

>Huh. People are liking this... What could we do better? I wonder if we could have some sort of vote... to see if this is what people actually want.

Why do they go through all the effort of world building when they destroy their own settings in the gayest way possible?

I like running them with the colorless matters cards from previous blocks. The ones in the actual set were kind of eh.

I'm not much of a flavor guy. Processors were cool too.

>getting buttfucked by players who netdeck and drop 1k on a deck every time the standard rotation goes through.
Stop being shit at Magic, though.

What's a Gateless?

But what's worse, BFZ or BNG?

A chimpanzee.

Nagle may not be objectively better in every aspect but at least he'll try to make the game more exiting, not less.

>MaRo said we're unlikely to revisit New Phyrexia
>tfw new card for Koth never

In terms of what metric? BNG had a lot of faults, but I don't think it was as universally disappointing. It was a small set with some filler casual mechanics.

Yeah Mark Rosewater is a solid game designer, but his desire for consistency takes away the soul of the game. He's very much willing to put all of his weight behind the corporate aspect of the game, pushing for accessibility and simplicity above all else, which is great if you're some entry level retard, but players are only entry level retards for a while, and then they become players like everyone else.

The game needs complexity, not a guy who's going to wring his hands over printing good removal because it'll make killing creatures in limited too easy.

I forgot BNG was a small set, but still I think it was worse. It had Brimaz and three scry lands. And that's it, nothing else was played anywhere.

On terms of big sets I think DGM was a bigger fuck up than BFZ.

Reminder that the second most expensive card in Dragon's Maze is a token for the first most expensive.

Wait last I checked at least the second most expensive was Ral Zarek, did the token shot up a bit?

They can work as a way to have a planar disaster, and it is sometimes interesting to see how a populace rallies and reacts to their existence.

So of course they got rid of all of them within 2 blocks instead of trying to leave some in reserve.

At one point the token for Voice was really expensive, it has since dropped to around 5 bucks.

Top 10 most expensive cards in Dragon's Maze

1. Voice. $28.
2. Ral Zarek $8
3. Voice's token $5
4. Master of Cruelties $4
5. Mimic $4
6. Savageborn Hydra $3
7. Chant $3
8. Blood Baron $2
9. Legion's Initiative $1.50
10. Mirko $1

The entire sub-plot of Return to Ravinica that they dropped in favor of lolMaze-Runner

>MIRKO VOSK of all things is on the top ten
Fuck DGM was a really shitty set wasn't it.

Oh, that, yeah. Fuck them for wasting time on the best plane.

11. Bird token. $.90
12. Render Silent $.90
13. Wear Tear $.90
14. Maze's End $.90
15. Tajic $.70

Yes. Yes it was

This feels very disappointing and weird considering the original Zendikar was his baby before Innistrad.

Just BFZ or the entire BFZ block though? That question was worded poorly.

It also says a lot that the tenth most expensive thing is only one dollar

>Unlikely to return to new Phyrexia
The fuck? For what possible fucking reason? Doesn't mean it's impossible as we've seen a number of things he considered unlikely happening lately but what the fuck could make the plane featuring Magic's most iconic villains unlikely?

I'm sure he hates SOI block just a little bit less for what it did to Innistrad.
It's a morbid feeling knowing that bullshit he burdened us with and has since ruined the game, like NWO and his revision of the color pie, now exectives are ruining his work and everything he liked about it for the sake of unproven marketing strategies and a movie that may never happen.

In fact, I'll do Saviors of Kamigawa and BFZ for comparison

1. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds $17
2. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea $12
3. Miren, the Moaning Well $11
4. Sakashima the Impostor $11
5. Erayo, Soratami Ascendant $8
6. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker $5
7. Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant $5
8. Choice of Damnations $4
9. Kami of the Crescent Moon $4
10. Maga, Traitor to Mortals $4

BFZ
1. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 20
2. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 12
3. Ob Nixilis Reignited 6
4. Drana, Liberator of Malakir 6
5. Part the Waterveil 4
6. Shambling Vent 3
7. Cinder Glade 3
8. Prairie Stream 3
9. Kiora, Master of the Depths 3
10. Smoldering Marsh 3

Top 10 value in DGM was $60
Saviors is $81
BFZ is $63

He believes in keeping his job.

Is any modern set without fetchlands/shocklands worth more than $100 in the top 10?

I believed they planned to emrakul it up ever since the first Innistrad came out and reception seems to be positive on non Veeky Forums sites.

Got the impression he meant just BFZ and not the whole block since I feel he probably would have said block if he meant it and the question was for set. Just assuming though

I heard that sometime around Original INN block someone proposed a story about Emrakul causing madness on Innistrad, yeah. I think Eldrazi make the most sense on Innistrad. It just annoys me sense I think as hes said in his own words, Eldrazi are iconically three, and having Innistrad have the cosmic horror chthulu trope feels hollow now that we don't have a pantheon of elder gods and just the one.

It has plenty of complexity and is adding more with each new set. His job is to help keep magic alive and successful.
Players will quit magic, so they need to attract new blood and thus must limit the complexity a new player will face and perceive.

Scars was a great set. Innistrad/Scars standard was one of the most enjoyable ones I've played. But it's mired in really shitty story decisions. What was the point of setting up Phyrexia like that if we weren't ever going to go back there?

>Set up Mirrans to make a comeback, Melira can cure/grant immunity to oil, they're hiding in Urabrask's furnaces
>One shitty mothership story ruins all of that setting up
>"Melira ASSPLODED into oil, no ummunity lel"
>"Red phyrexians were ASSPLODED by Elesh Norn, no mirrans left lel"
>"Koth ASSPLODED himself to ASSPLODE the Phyrexians, no Koth lel"

If you mean modern as in 8th ed+, there's at least Mirrodin, Innistrad (two cards), Darksteel (two cards), New Phyrexia, Scars of Mirrodin, Lorwynn, and more. The point is that there's a lot.

NWO ended up causing the player revolving door to go from 4 years on average to 2 years on average.
They could live with that during the nerd boom but that well is draining quick.

Liliana alone is more than $100

Oh wew.

8th Edition is $151
9th is $134
10th is $167
Mirrodin is $173
Darksteel is $204
Fifth Dawn is $187
Time Spiral is a fun one. $171
Champions of Kamigawa is $202
Betrayers is $134

Seems like older sets are more expensive. I'll use uh...

Fate Reforged $49

What? The reason he thinks BFZ was a poor design is because it was a return that didn't return to the setting and feel of the original Zendikar set, is the long and short of it. SOI nailed that for Innistrad, though.

>Fate Reforged $49
Literally only Ugin and Banana Man

>BFZ worst
>When EMN exists

This is coming from someone who likes both Eldrazi and Innistrad, both flavor and gameplay wise. Wizards doesn't give a fuck about anything at this point. Everything's gonna get fucked to bits because Maro and whatever "market research" he pulls out of his ass love the Jacetice League so much.

SOI is 97, just under the $100 mark
Scars is $128
New Phyrexia is $202
Mirrodin Beseiged $134

This post has a relatively large number of words versus the amount of information that can actually be gleaned from the opinion expressed within it.

Urza's Saga is $499
Legacy is $134
Destiny $140

BFZ story should have been about the Gatewatch traveling to the various Eldrazi temples of Zendikar to find some secret relics or information about the hedrons network o lock down Ulamog, then have the story beats of OGE stay the same. They were shitty but they must've wanted the Eldrazi outright destroyed for a reason so. This just correxts the problem of BFZ feeling too much like ROE.

evidence?
Or are we in the standard making statements built on feels land.

I'm going to need a citation for that.