Battletech General: Decent Sculpts Edition

Basically yes. ToW is for everything outside the cockpit.

That is pretty neat. Might show it to some of my group; I think the only thing that likely wouldn't pass muster is the SPA allotment (we generally give SPAs a miss).

>(the PCs are playing members of a more militarized Clan Watch who are basically troubleshooters who find trouble and shoot it)
That almost sounds like Paranoia with giant robots.
...And now I WANT to play Paranoia with giant robots...

...

Tried using CampOps for creating and running a Clan force. I don't think it works well.

The system works fine for mercenaries, it's detailed and logical. When it comes to a Clan unit though (and to a lesser extent, a House unit) it gets really weird because suddenly all that detail has to be taken as abstract. Generally I'm fine with abstract rules, but when the abstract rules for something take the form of highly detailed rules for something else, that's not an easy sell. Using CO just doesn't feel like running a Clan force at all.

What feels goofy:
- being given so much choice in missions and equipment, rather than having to follow orders passed down the chain of command and make do with what I'm assigned
- having no sense of a military procurement system that combines a planned economy with Trials of Possession
- working out how much my Warriors get paid (answer should be zilch; Clan Warriors get given work credits which have little or nothing to do with the military resources allocated to their parent unit)
- Political favour, which ought to be something quite apart from a force's reputation for combat effectiveness (e.g Jade Falcon Guards, Clan Wolf's Omega Galaxy circa 3067)

Honestly I think House and Clan units each need a detailed set of rules for themselves. Campaign Ops doesn't do them justice. Why was it focussed on mercs anyway? They don't seem that popular with players.

I appreciate the OPFOR system. I can understand being invested in one's particular little mans, but me personally, I think it'd be fun to take a break and play with some different units on occasion. I can see where it would be a problem with others though.

>They don't seem that popular with players.

They're popular as all hell where I am; it's probably just different in your area.

I agree though that the rules as written work especially poorly for Clan forces. Until something better comes along I would recommend using the optional rules on page 30, with the "in debt or not" roll used instead as a credit or debit to the unit's Reputation score. Ignore salaries and monetary mission rewards; everything is Reputation. You may however want to keep track of wartime operating costs otherwise, however; Clanners abhor waste and a unit running up what would be a high C-Bill cost in an Inner Sphere unit could plausibly come under charges of wastefulness.

>Why was it focussed on mercs anyway? They don't seem that popular with players.

I think it's the idea that both House units and Clan forces can basicly make, ship and deliver all the mechs you'd want.

However, a merc unit typically doesn't have it's own mech/equipment factory, so you have to be very careful with what you have. It's a unique challenge to see how far you can get with limited resourses, having to manage a merc company and all the economical pain that follows.

Depending on the era of play it may also not necessarily be true that a House unit is immune to financial woes or withering supply shortages. Especially if it's a game in the height of the Dark Age or Succession Wars.

Depends on the type of House/Clan unit too. If I'm playing as a lowly second-line unit like a Provisional Garrison Cluster or a Lyran Militia regiment, it ought to be hard as hell for me to get kitted out with the latest cutting-edge omnimechs.

That's true, but in the case of the Clan unit, you're still warriors and you shouldn't still be worried overmuch about actual money. It's just that the stuff you're assigned by fiat is going to be outdated models and lower-grade tech.

I do some similar houserules for wealth and equipment in my ATOW games where Clanner PCs are involved.

You know, I'd honestly not feel bad about getting some of the second-line Clan battlemechs over an omni.

lol Rifleman IIC

>How do I introduce people who haven't played Mechwarrior or Mechassault to Battletech?
"Have you ever wanted to play a giant robot game where you can beat your opponent to death with his own severed arm?"

>"Have you ever wanted to play a giant robot game where you can beat your opponent to death with his own severed arm?"

"There he is, folks... Achilles' robot, the new Matsumoto XIV, facing off against the Confederation's Kobalevsky XLII!"

On second though, maybe watching Robot Jox might be a *bad* idea.

>On second though, maybe watching Robot Jox might be a *bad* idea.

Well, if all else fails, you could start with a Solaris game.

What mech is this? Also wasn't there just some new comissioned plog Uziel art? Or did I dream that? Either way, I forgot to save it.

>On second though, maybe watching Robot Jox might be a *bad* idea.
It is the best idea. Delivers the proper BT mindset.

Hell, it even has trueborn warriors.

>On second thought, maybe watching Robot Jox might be a *bad* idea.
>It is the best idea.

Yeah, I have to admit, despite it's flaws, it's one of those movies I could watch any time it comes on.

>Delivers the proper BT mindset.

I also favour the beginning (although the entire thing is a delight to watch) of the first Patlabor movie:

youtube.com/watch?v=a54cINonA3U

... and also the beginning of the first episode of Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket, even if the mechs in Gundam move a lot faster than the ones in Battletech:

youtube.com/watch?v=7f6GTdyWTrQ

... and "A Tale of Two Robots" from Robot Carnival (quality is dodgy here):

youtube.com/watch?v=0HqvAFd4gVE

Less derpy Shadow Cat

Black Lanner, as the file name says. 3058U. Jade Falcon Medium Omni. 7/11, and relatively few weapons and light armor. Not a bad design though.

There is a distinct lack of the Kampfer in that episode, so it loses out. Damn my preference for MG scale.

>There is a distinct lack of the Kampfer in that episode, so it loses out. Damn my preference for MG scale.

Misha pilots the Kampfer later in ... maybe it's the third episode? This OVA series was a little heavier on plot rather than action - the effects of war on everybody, and an interesting twist on the love story - very different from the half-hour episodes they spew out for kids these days.

>Misha pilots the Kampfer later in ... maybe it's the third episode?
Oh I'm well aware, I'm just not a huge fan of the Gogg/Hygogg series.

>This OVA series was a little heavier on plot rather than action - the effects of war on everybody, and an interesting twist on the love story - very different from the half-hour episodes they spew out for kids these days.
Yeah it was a decent OVA. I preferred 08th MS for the Gouf fight and overall feel, though 0083 gets a spot too because of muh Top Gun.

The Warthog Battlemech. According to Sarna it was in MWIV or something.

No, the MW 4 mech is named Pitbull, that's a custom Mr . balk conversion

Delivered, and thank you everyone else that thought I couldn't read a file name that I typed myself.

Don't kick vedettes kids

I thought it would be a good idea
how was I supposed to know it was gonna blow me back to kingdom come

next time remember to uncheck the option to have ammo explosions damage nearby units, senpai

>Sexiest MS coming through folks.

I'm not hosting but good to know

Are we shittalking Greg again?

Hey /teej/

I just saw Reapers next mech KS and I felt like playing some large scale mech mini hijinks, but I've never even looked at BT before.

The sort of game I'm aiming for is like the old turn based Front Mission 3 on PSX. Mechs have facings, attacks from behind or the side are more dangerous so where you face is a tactical decision. I'd also like to include squads of infantry and smaller vehicles.
Is BT the game for me? If not, what might be?

Battletech is a lot like Front Mission in those regards, yeah. Hit locations that are influenced by what direction you attack from, rear armor being a weak point, conventional forces as well as 'Mechs are a thing, etc...

>Mechs have facings, attacks from behind or the side are more dangerous so where you face is a tactical decision. I'd also like to include squads of infantry and smaller vehicles.
well that's all in battletech.

Thanks fäm(s) I'll get the book and give it a look.

How complicated is BT? I don't want to be poring over charts and tables, I'm after something kind of light, easy to pick up.

Battletech is exactly what you want. It has every last one of those things

>How complicated is BT? I don't want to be poring over charts and tables, I'm after something kind of light, easy to pick up.
well that it isn't, the IRL game is fairly rules heavy, especially once you get past the tournament rules.

But megamek automating all the dice and tables can make it pretty damn quick, if you wanna play it online.

This. Battletech is still at its core one of them old 80s tabletop games with plenty of tables and such. Though exactly how many rules you want to apply to the game is something you can choose for yourself. And as was said, MegaMek is a good way to do it online without needing to do the table checking yourself.

It isn't simple, but it's not hard, either.
You won't have to pour over tables, just consult them regularly; a single cheat sheet will hold everything that matters, and with just a little bit of experience, battletech can be pretty fast and smooth.
Of course, megamek on PC automates all this for EZmode

Thanks guys.

I'll just point out that almost all the books are in the links in the OP. So loot and see if it's interesting before buying. Some of the regulars here say get the BattleTech Master Rules once you get through the introductory rules, it's the prior edition of the rules but it's a few orders of magnitude better laid out than the flaming mess that are the current core books, and it's still 95% accurate.

>the only time a GM scored a kill

Building on that cheat sheet idea from , here's a record sheet for one of the three most standard trooper mechs. That column on the right side is all you'd need for an introtech game.

Holy shit that looks terrifyingly complex.

Welcome to battletech

Honestly, not really. You're making at the absolute limit 3 rolls on well-defined charts, right there I'm front of you, and doing simple fill-in-the-spot damage.
It looks way the hell harder than it is

I didnt know i needed this

Details are the spice of life.

Anywho, just recently got into BT after seeing the kickstarter get funded.
Been playing and loving the mechwarrior series since i was a little shit in the 90's, and after being horribly disgusted with MWO, im loving BT in every form.

Stupid question im sure, but anyone have a good idea on some house rules to not make machineguns utter garbage and a 400damage explosion waiting to happen?

Machine guns are great for two things.

A) Killing the fuck out of conventional infantry. Flamers are better, but a few MGs will do just fine for it.

B) An extra zero-heat weapon you can fling at enemies who are real close up in an attempt to fish for critical hits.

The 400 damage explosion thing is harder to mitigate (though if you take half-ton MG ammo bins, it's only 200!). If you're not doing pure introtech, just make sure you've got CASE looking after your internals. If possible, CASE II is even better.

The investment followed by the risk of an ammo explosion even with case just seems like too much for an "okay" AI weapon when flamers exist.
I dont have as many rulebooks as i should but machineguns are never ended up rapidfire did they?
Im just trying to come up with a way to mitigate that and bring the weapon out of the fighting in a volcano niche it currently has.
Maybe bumping up the amoo costs per shot, or even reducing ammo per ton in generall. Idk.

No rapid fire option. That could be a good one for them, perhaps. There are MG Arrays which basically gather together multiples as one weapon.

For what it's worth, machine guns are an excellent AI weapon if you have vested interest in not starting fires.

To be fair though, not everybody uses those rules.

I'm gonna recommend the fix I've used for possibly 25 years, which is all mechs effectively have CASE for free, regardless of era (plus a bonus bit: if CT ammo explodes, it reduces the mech to exactly one CT IS and destroys the rear armor, rather than killing it outright). If a mech actually has CASE, it only looses the rear armor and half the remaining IS in that location if the ammo blows. If it has CASE II, it works normally, but the pilot doesn't take any damage

Load 20 rounds of MG ammo. Most things with MGs pack two, that much covers you for 10 rounds, which is generally more than you'll need. Still blows up for 40 if you get crit early, but you're no longer looking at nuclear damage yields.

>machineguns are never ended up rapidfire did they?

TacOps, p102. Rapid-Fire Mode. Roll 1d6, do that much damage, take that much heat, burn 3 times that much ammo.

RAPID
FIRE
MACHINE GUNS

I forget how the rules work off hand, but i think they are somewhere in the Maximum Tech revised edition rule book.

Also a fun house rule me and my friends sometimes use, is that for every full 5 tons a mech is under its maximum chassis wight, you recalculate its movement in hexes as if it were 5 tons lighter rounding up to the nearest full hex, with the formula ENGINE RATING/MASS = WALK MP. For example, the speed of an atlas can be calculated as 300/100=3 hexes. If you managed to strip 30 tons off of the atlas for some reason, that would drop its overall wight down to 70 tons meaning its new speed in hexes can be calculated as 300/70=4~, so the Atlas new movement profile would be 4/6/0

Its not a really going to be a useful house rule most of the time but I've had some fun with it in campaigns when equipment was scarce and the situation was desperate. I bet you've never seen an Atlas take down another mech with a 9 hex charge

So are small pulse lasers. With no ammo bomb.

>show /btg/ my first lance
"youll never survive 3 missions with the crusader"
>still alive today
>manages to take 3 ct crits despite still having ammo in the CT.

he's gonna go far kid.

im starting to debate letting the GM have AoE ammo crits on

speaking of ye olde lance (i dont even think i have the wyvern anymore)does anyone have the finished crusader art that /btg/ did?

>all the mechs I had lost their weapons that phase
why my arms

But with some extra heat, whereas you can have several MGs and get no heat.

>TacOps, p102. Rapid-Fire Mode. Roll 1d6, do that much damage, take that much heat, burn 3 times that much ammo.

Huh, how the fuck did I miss that?

For additional reference, Alpha Strike increases damage on shots from the rear, while Robotech Tactics gives bonuses to hit if you're a) flanking and/or b) shooting through the rear arc,
RRPGT has no official rules for infantry or conventional forces as yet, while the infantry rules for Alpha Strike are a little arbitrary but improved by the new conversion rules. Vehicles work well in AS, infantry basically evaporate unless you're using random damage.

>How complicated is BT? I don't want to be poring over charts and tables, I'm after something kind of light, easy to pick up.
Less-complex than Squad Leader, more-so than Warmachine. The tables are mostly simple, but BT doesn't handle games with more than ~10-12 units very well, and that's for experienced players. It's great for a quick 4-unit skirmish, but even that can take a couple hours for newbies. Still, the charts are simple and well-laid out, and once you play a few games shit gets a lot faster. You can also ditch the hex-maps if you want and play with regular terrain, which removes a whole hell of a lot of the complexity from the game.

I always found that image a little silly, considering the difference in power between a gundam and a battlemech

Also, Da Chart.

Hey, here's your concept.

Because the core rulebooks are organized like legos.

But thanks for the information and suggestions.
1d6 damage and triple ammo cost per mg sounds solid Too.

It's the option I always check in megamek for my machines, just to actually burn through some ammo. Especially on vehicles since they don't give a shit about the heat and most old common tanks mount at least 1 front MG.

The only negative is fire against infantry is resolved the same way whether you are using rapid fire or not. Which still means it rapes them, just you don't get anything extra for the extra ammo and heat.

It is also interesting in a merc campaign where you though ten tons of MG ammo would last the life of the campaign but you find yourself switching back to standard mode on a bunch of your stuff the fifth mission out because you've got one ton of ammo left to divvy up among your whole company.

They're pretty nice on conventional fighters too, since in addition to the same ignoring heat like vehicles, aerospace ranges mean MGs and HMGs are way more usable.

This suddenly makes me wonder if anybody here has tried to make use of XTRO 1945.

A number of grogs did on the OF, and went as far as to create other units to use as well.

>They're pretty nice on conventional fighters too, since in addition to the same ignoring heat like vehicles, aerospace ranges mean MGs and HMGs are way more usable.

Conventional fighters use ground ranges, not space ranges when fighting.

MGs all have Point-Defence range any way which means they can only fire into the adjacent hex. They don't get Short range.

>Conventional fighters use ground ranges, not space ranges when fighting.

If I remember correctly, that's only true when they're flying over a ground mapsheet rather than on the low-altitude map, and even then I think you're supposed to multiply the range by 16.

>MGs all have Point-Defence range any way which means they can only fire into the adjacent hex. They don't get Short range.

Only if you're using those rules; the default rules give machine guns an aerospace range of Short.

They actually still use the standard ASF brackets, and those are what you multiply by 16. So a short bracket becomes 96 hexes, for example.

As for point defense, not only is it a matter of using those rules, but it's a mode that can be switched on and off.

A space hex is equivalent to 7 ground hexes for thrust and weapons, guys. And you use the aero hex ranges for hexes so multiplied by seven. Still makes a bird-mounted AC20 a complete terror.

Given what is said on this thread, i decided to download megamek for the first time.

Decided to play a simple game just to trial it out, me as a centurion 9a vs a cataphract 4x.

Seemed pretty neat, my centurion running around the cataphract taking armour hits. Managed to take out his left arm through sustained consistent rolls

When suddenly! Cataphract tries to run&turn on pavement, falls on its Right side, takes 5 damage to its right side and 2 damage to its left torso.

Left torso damage sets of its AC/5 ammo. Ammo blows for 70 damage, destroying everything. Pilot ejects to safety, but then wounds themselves landing in the open.

Glorious Victory!

wat

ASF fire at the ground counting range to target and adding 1 hex per 2 Altitude levels they're flying at. Ground units fire back the same way.

Things like the MechBuster aren't "scary," they don't get artillery ranges for their 3/6/9 weapons.

The rest of your scale stuff is wrong too.

Play in megamek. I guarantee that's how it works.

You have to be at 5 altitude or lower for a normal air to ground strike attack. You have a flat +2 for the strike attack and you drop a level. You can't fire at a ground target in front of you. It had to of been flown over in your flight path that round. You can shoot at other air targets the normal way though. You judge distance and divide by seven to convert to aero hexes for either. Altitude is multiplied by 2 to convert it to ground type hexes for distance purposes.

An AC20 mounted on an aerospace fighter is a short bracket weapon with a range of 6 aero hexes. That works out to 42 with no range modifier. It means you can fly over, park your ass 38 hexes in his six and fire with Pilot skill+2+TMM. That can be pretty darn brutal when he's looking at 42 with mech brackets to fire back

And for a mech to fire back at you, it calculates distance from it to where you ended your turn, even if it's thirty hexes away and has to calculate distance to you in normal ground hexes. Plus facing is determined from where movement ends, so a lot of times you're stuck shooting back with one arm-mounted weapon if they flew directly behind you and stopped a good distance off.

If I'm wrong about that, then I am. But I played a megamek match where I had two lances of Aerospace fighters destroy an armored train and its escort just two weeks ago with version .40 and that's how it was. Hell, before that I blew a Sparrowhawk to smithereens half a map away with a rear-mounted ML in the bird I was flying.

I don't know if any of that applies to conventional fighters. I know it doesn't to VTOL's. It sure does to Aeros on a ground map.

Usually what offsets all this is having to fly fairly low and have all the lawndart rolls. Aerospace on mechscale ground maps like that are complete glass canons no matter what armor they got. Kinda like a real fighter jet. But scary is a good way to describe them.

You're semi-wrong. You're just using the least-used version of aerospace rules, and not applying them entirely correctly. Aerospace Units on Ground Mapsheets is what you're using, and yes, it multiplies your aerospace movement and your weapon ranges. However, those weapon ranges are against *other aerospace units*. To make an air-to-ground attack, you can only attack a unit you overfly, so your AC/20 example is what's wrong. You can't shoot at him from 38 hexes away. The reason you could blow up the Sparrowhawk is because it was another Aerospace unit.

And, for reference, I'm pretty sure MegaMek is not handling ASFs correctly at this time. For example, if you're the target of an air-to-ground attack (strike/strafe), the Range you fire back at is *always* Range 0 (with no minimum range mods). If you're shooting at an ASF which is making that attack, and you aren't the target, you draw range to the closest point of the ASF's flight path, not its endpoint (plus 2 hexes of range per level of Altitude). If MegaMek is forcing people to fire at a Striking ASF only at the ASFs movement endpoint, then MegaMek is wrong.

Probably because this is a result of TW errata, and MM hasn't updated to take that into account. But still.

>That can be pretty darn brutal when he's looking at 42 with mech brackets to fire back
Except he's not. Ground units determine base range to an ASF from the distance between them and closest point to its flight/attack path. And if the ground unit is in that path, range is 1. You then add the 2 hexes of range per altitude.

>If I'm wrong about that, then I am. But I played a megamek match where I had two lances of Aerospace fighters destroy an armored train and its escort just two weeks ago with version .40 and that's how it was.

You are wrong, because megamek .40 is old, and probably predates the errata whcih makes this work as I've described, though it still had the optional StratOps rules which do the same, but also add a modifier to the ground unit's attack based on the ASF's velocity, said modifier now all those rules add.

And yes, conventional fighters are considered aerospace units.

>To make an air-to-ground attack, you can only attack a unit you overfly, so your AC/20 example is what's wrong. You can't shoot at him from 38 hexes away. The reason you could blow up the Sparrowhawk is because it was another Aerospace unit.
He gets that part:
>You can't fire at a ground target in front of you. It had to of been flown over in your flight path that round.

> It means you can fly over, park your ass 38 hexes in his six and fire with Pilot skill+2+TMM.

Key words in the second line, "fly over". Phrasing was bit poor though, I thought he was talking about shooting from 38 hexes away for second too.

And as said, he's just using an old version of MM, probably the stable build. Current builds handle surface to air attacks per the errata.

Looks like it's time to upgrade. Thanks for the clarification guys.

There's rarely never a time not to use the latest developmental build of MM. In part because the stables can get very old, .40.1 is about a year and half old, at one point I remember the stable release was literally years out of date with the developmental ones.

Occasionally some new major bugs pop up, but that's why you hang on to the prior dev release just in case.

Awesome. When are you going to finish the turnaround?

Somehow I got a higher res version with the cockpit glass colored in.