Flames of War General: Flaming edition

FoW does offer certainly advantages for bunching up your guys, although there are pros and cons. Assaults, particularly for Soviets, are strongly advantaged by the number of bases in a given platoon, and the sheer size of a Soviet Strelk blob gives a huge advantage to the Soviets, particularly including their special rule that requires a large unit size.

HMG's don't slow down the infantry, although they can be a bit vulnerable on the move. Having them as a seperate platoon can help for reserves games where some of your platoons have to start the game off the board. Having more anti infantry firepower locally avaliable is handy, though, although having the enemy in CC is basically the Soviet win condition, so defensive fire doesn't have the same critical importance it does for other nations.

I can think of a couple, none are quite what/how I'd run, but you've got options.
What were you planning? What point level?
I'd suggest starting out with smaller games (1000 - 1500 pts) so that you can finish them in a reasonable amount of time what with all the rulebook consulting you'll probably have to do.
>You're playing Soviets, so there's no danger of that.
Fite Me

can someone post all questions to the email-group? thanks!

(always better to formulate thought / do a little research.)

Doing that now.

Also, one is completely unreadable and makes no sense at all, I say we should probably skip over that one.

agreed. also, minimal on jokes answer. perfectly honest there.

...

>he doesn't get it

Im about to move to the Charleston area but despite having The Citadel Academy there, there doesnt seem to be much of a wargame scene short of a GW. Ive got a Citadel graduate buddy of mine interested in Warhammer, and Im hoping he'll be interested in Flames of War. Though it looks like we'd have to order anything online.

>he doesn't get it

No. No I don't.

Order the starter set, see if you enjoy it.

I've got two sets of the Allies half from splitting boxes with a buddy who ended up just sitting on his Germans. Suppose we can try mirror matches but it's bound to be confusing.

Oh. Ok.

Might be worth trying, but mirror matches can get a bit stale after a while.

Great! You guys have a good place to start building a complete list. Check out the Market Garden book for some lists and ideas for support options to bring. At minimum I think you will both want arty for smoke/pinning.

Get some matches in to learn to rules. Maybe start with the Open Fire lists and go on from there.

I found my Open Fire Germans the other day and started putting the StugGs that same evening. It's such a great value for all you get.

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood. PSC has some really good german kits which might be a good place to start for an opposing list.

The friend I split my open fire box with didn't even get to building his Americas, but now that I have Soviets, I am using the Germas as an opposing force.

It's a comment from some YouTube video a while back, old school memes.

Everyone was trying to figure out what the guy asking it meant and we wanted to see your take.

The others explained as much, but I'm still not entirely sure why it's supposed to be funny. *shrug*

You should check out the German starter armies the PSC and Battlefront make. Theyre both good starter armies in the points range of what your open fire allies add up to

That's because you're a newfag, eagles.

Seconding this. Pretty much any of the army box sets you find from either Plastic Soldier Company or Battlefront will be a good deal with some quality miniatures.

If you say so. I've been here for years, but I'm still a 'newfag' for not knowing some shitty meme.

Also, I mistook a video game for an anime earlier. shows you what i know about video games and Japanese animation.

So question regarding the painting of Soviet Tanks. Would the Rubber Skirts on the sides of the T-72 been painted in the same general scheme as the tank or detached first?

so what does it take to get into this game for the first time? the nearest game store is an hour away, so i gotta get everything in as few trips as possible

Well, you gotta pick a period first, youll probably want to ask wherever youre playing what they tend to play.

Once you have that down, you need the main rulebook and a theatre book for your army. Unless you play Team Yankee, you will use Version 3 rules. If youre not sure what book you want to play, every single book ever released is in the mediafire in the op. You can ask for suggestions here for your period and army or use battlefront's website.

After you've done that, you pick your starting force, buy the models, hobby supplies, and whatever else you need and get to work.

Do you have any idea what period or force you would like to play? Say 1944 American Paratroopers or 1939 Germans panzerkompanie invading Poland?

The open fire set is a great starter, especially if you're playing Germans. You get bread and butter Grenadier companies, AT guns, and StuGs. These can be taken in a wide variety of lists.
For the allies, it's a little wonky since you get American paratroopers and British shermans, which only go together in a few specific forces.

The set comes with the rules, some quick start stuff, some dice, and some 2d terrain.

The models in Open fire are most suited for late war, but you'll still get some mid war use out of some

>Grenadier companies

Shit I meant platoons

Open Fire!
Box of 88s, blister of pioneers, blister of nebs, box of PaK 40s, box of StuGs, blister of mortars, and Grey Wolf.

That should be about 1750, and basically everything you need for a complete German army.

Go through the PDFs in the OP to pick an era (late war is more popular), country, and army type (tank, mechanized infantry, infantry). ideally you find a specific list you like and know what to buy. Any interests?

Going by a quick Google image search, it looks like they're typically painted the same color as the tank itself.

...

And yet I've seen them with the skirts in plain rubber as well.

Most of those are actually really good suggestions for expanding your Germans from the Open Fire starter set.

How do you guys feel about task force A out of the overlord book.

Interesting mix of capabilities. Not sure how automatic attack mixes in with their very defensive load outs.

It is the best TD Company below about 1600 Pts, very fast, aggressive and quite capable. Downside is Trained, so it does take some practice to use well, and AT12 instead of AT13 in Blood, Guts & Glory: however, the latter do pay more.

For higher points level going Vet is probably better.

Trained isn't a problem if you have numbers and/or smoke bombardment (or ammo, in a pinch). Smoke by itself does a lot to improve trained tank or mechanized lists.

I've run into a bit of a conundrum for my planned german list. Which would be better: 4 2cm Flakvierling 38 (RoF 6 AT5 Fp5+) or 3 3.7cm FlaK43 (RoF 4 AT 6 Fp4+)? Reluctant Trained in either case (fucking luftwaffles).

The only real answer is that it depends on the list.

Mathematically, against soft targets, the quads will do better; against lightly protected targets e.g. dug in infantry they will be broadly equivalent (same mean; vierlings have a wider variance, so will excel more but also whiff more); against light armoured targets e.g. halftracks and armoured cars, the 3.7s will just have the edge, as well as being able to threaten side shots on tanks.

Personally, I rate the 3.7, but it depends on the list.

List is King Tigers from Remagen (so, always defends). And the points difference betwee the options can be ignored (I'll be under in either case)

In that case, I'd go with the 3.7s, personally. You'll want to be relying on vehicle MG fire for defensive to keep your Volkssturm safe; the 3.7s will allow you to take on lighter targets while prioritising your big guns for bigger, juicier game.

That and 3.7s are better for shooting down aircraft while still pinned. Which is one of the primary counters to King Tigers.

Heard from my FLGS that Muller is on it's way and will be here this week.

Eagles now you are baiting. It is not like I am proud of you for that baka.

How hard would it be to convert the BF plastic Shermans into Crabs?

I'm just being honest. I don't know anime, and I don't really know video games or PC games.

I play stuff like Starcraft, Command & Conquer, and Civilization.

I couldn't tell you the first thing about any First Person Shooters, sports games, fighting games, or RPGs.

I'd say it can probably be done with minimal effort. Maybe some plastic card for the support arms, a dowel for the rotating piece, and some short lengths of chain hanging down for the flails.

It's certainly worth trying if you have a few Shermans to spare.

>tfw you have a hobby desk of your own for the first time in 3 years

[urrrrrraaaaaaaaa intensifies]

it is beautiful. My engineer sapper army will be ready soon. Cant wait to have a FV infantry force that outnumbers many trained infantry companies.

>Buy Panzer IIIs, Panzer IVs, and Panzer VI, Stuka and bits for cheap.
>Turrets are all still Factory stuck down with Hotglue.

Sometimes I wonder about people.

Pakfront:

"...do not deploy this platoon when you would normally. Instead, it is deployed at the same time as independent teams."

Does this circumvent if you held the paks in reserves?

Grey wolf revised p54 btw

It still counts as one of the platoons you deploy, so if it's in reserve, it's in reserve and not deployed.

...

lol

So i've got my first FoW tournament coming up in about a month. It's late war. I've made my list so i'm wondering what you guys think:

1500 Points
Company Command: Panther G
Combat Platoon: 2x Panther G
Combat Platoon: 2x Panther G
Support Platoon: Wespe Platoon(6 Guns, 2 Panzer 3 ops)
Recon Platoon: 3x Panzer II Luchs

It's small but in the test casual games i've played it's done fairly well. The only big issue i've hit are Fireflies ripping my panthers open like tin cans, but i think clever use of cover and sturmtruppen will fix that.

Medium tank hordes will swarm it to death.
Heavy cats will win the firefight against your panthers
Infantry will kill your wespes and then laugh.

You really need more than 5 real tanks in a list, no matter how good the tanks are (and panthers aren't even close to good enough).

I'm currently using Desperate Measures. Should i replace the 2 panthers with 4 hetzers or StuGs instead?

Addendum:

Leaving me with a total of 3 panthers and 4 StuG/Hetzers?

That would definetely be an improvement. Perhaps also replace some of the Wespes (they're cute, but not all that good, especially for their points) with additional tanks. Or go Trained, aim for 6 platoons including something capable of assaulting (generally, infantry or large platoons of tanks with schürzen)

Swapping some of the Panthers (probs one platoon and the HQ) for some mediums that are at least decent in assaults (StuG III G or Panzer IVs) will make that list much more effective.

Also, as said here, going to at least 6 platoons is indeed something you should strive for at 1500 points.
I think that should be viable by dropping a few of the Wespes (or going for cheaper arty), swapping the Panthers and getting some cheap options like AA.

Might work better going Trained, though.

My local meta is fairly plane dry and the one guy who does bring them brings bombers- which with vet i can space out enough that there's not much use in bombing my tanks.

I don't really follow on the Wespe thing- they seem to lay smoke and waste infantry quite well, what's wrong with them? Forgive my inexperiance.

Would it be worth it to drop the Wespes down to trained in order to pick up more tanks?

>AA
You don't just bring AA to take down aircraft.
They can also threaten infantry and light vehicles, keeping your backfield safe.

Just as importantly, they're a cheap platoon that you can toss into reserve so that you start a battle with most of your points on the table.
In my latest tournament, I brought a pair of Bofors AA guns without transports for that exact reason.

>Wespes
They're not exactly bad, but their set of features makes them pretty expensive for what they do and still a bit vulnerable to light AT vehicles.
That's not a problem if that's where you want to spend your points after covering all of your list-building bases, but there are often essential units you'd want before investing in fancy artillery instead of the basic stuff.

>Wespes to trained
Possibly, though your list might benefit from a platoon of Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers (or similar) as well.
If you end up on defense against certain lists, you simply don't have enough staying power to hang onto multiple objectives.
A solid infantry unit with integrated AT dug in one one objective rather changes that picture.

New List:

Panzerkompanie(2.) From Devil's Charge

Company Command: 1x Panther G, Pnzer III Recovery

Combats:
4x Panther Gs

Gepantze Panzer Grenadier Platoon in Halftracks with Panzerschrek team(2 Mg teams)

Support:
Wespe Battery(3 Guns) with Pnzr IV OP and Command Staff

Panzerspah Patrol(8-rads with 2cm gun, gonna proxy them for Luchs)

1500 points on the dot

I'm sorry if i'm being a bit obtuse about the tanks thing, i wanna try and run as pure a tank list as i can- though the point about the infantry is a good one.

Swap the Panzergrenadiers for the Aufklärungs because holy shit same points for always attacking

You're still overly heavy on Panthers, meaning you won't have enough shots to handle medium tank hordes.

Also, how large is that PanzerGren platoon? You want full sie or none, german 2/3 strength platoons are rarely strong enough to do diddely squat.

10 shots sitting still 5 on the move isn't enough? How big do medium tank hordes get? 0.o

It's a 2/3 mostly because there's not enough wiggle room pointswise and i only own 3 half tracks anyway.

21, if someone decides to bring the T-34 horde. Or 17 happy americans, with smoke (good luck, you'll get one salvo before they're in your sides).

My best friend who i started the game with actually runs the happy americans list, so i'm used to that and another list that's just a whole bunch of Sherman Recce. The panthers seem to handle it well, i just use terrain and sight blockers the best i can to make sure he's always on my front armour, 21 T-34s does sound like a pain though- are they 85s or 74s?

Or you can get something like what I saw once, which was a soviet Lend lease horde of

1command M4
10 m4
10 m4 76mm
4IS 2
some dinky little armored cars

let me tell you, that is NOT the list you want delayed reserves against when youre playing a Zrinyi company

Goddamn communists and their gangster tactics

I've never come across 17 US Shermans. The points cost would be pretty restrictive at 1500 points or lower.

The most I see, even in larger games is 12 Shermans, and even there it's more typically 10. (2HQ + 2 platoons of 4)

And then add in support options like Armored Rifles, Recon, Tank Destroyers, or Artillery.

That one is from the Digital DLC, right? It is Confident Veteran?

I don't know what kind of support that list can use, but if you can, change that panzer grenadier platoon with some cheaper and bigger foot infantry platoon, or drop the recovery tank.

If you really want to use a lot of Panthers while having some pretty interesting options try a low rating company from Desperate Measures, Blood Gluts and Glory or even Nachtjäger (means Night Hunter)

echoing this. You really need something like trained to make them affordable Panther Bro.

Desperate Measures will give you a lot of tools in the trained panzerkompanie that will allow you to bring lots of Panthers and still have room for support, be that recce, lighter tanks/assault guns, Rocket launchers, air support, etc.

Pretty much, unless you use some kind of weird companie with really cheap core platoons like the Heavy puma recce list someone posted a time ago with 4 or 5 Panthers.

Made this list, how does it look? I plan on using mortars and loads of 75mm to deal with guns and infantry

That third Sherman in the command group is going to form a platoon with the 2iC. If this is intentional, to get to 9 platoons, leave it as is.

1625 is an odd points level, and you certainly have the room to add more AA MGs if you're aiming for 1650.

11x Panzer IV's, 9x Panthers, 4x SdKfz 251/D Halftracks, 2x Tiger I's, 47x Panzergrenadiers, including 3x LMG teams, all armed with 1 panzerfausts and/or 1 panzerschreck per platoon (5) and 3 nebwerfers 41 Along with 2 StuGs that I found.

I was thinking about picking up some 222's and running the SS panzerkompanie list from Grey Wolf, but 1750 seems Veeeeery restrictive on how much shit I can run. Anyone get any recs that can make the most out of what I got?

Pic unrelated

That's not a very good list. It lacks septsnaz (which are strictly better than BA-64s when you have to chose between them), has a shit for anything above AT 12, and is relying excessively on tank numbers. Knock out the commander in one of those companies, and that's a shit ton of points sitting around waiting for CiC.

Oh, and it's got IS-2s.

This is effectively the soviet version of a King Tigee list. It looks good... In theory... But in practice it's only good against specific lists in specific missions.

Yes it's intentional, if i didn't do it and i decided to not field the AVREs i would end up with 7 platoons. 1625 late is the new format for the ETC

By coincidence, 1625 is the level I'm using for a local MW event coming up. I couldn't choose between 1600 and 1650, so split the difference.

This, of course, means precisely nothing. But it's not a super-rare points level.

>when your tank assault 2 infantry attacks the enemy tank with top armor 2

Yeah, thats what I thought too will a well balanced Zrinyi II company packing 10 zrinyis, a 10 stand CV pioneer platoon dug in on the sole objective, a pair of tigers, 149mm howitzers, and recce toldis.

Until your pioneers fail their tank terror and run. Then with delayed reserves you only have a platoon of Tigers, 4 zrinyis, and 149mm howitzers to knock 15 shermans off the objective in a single turn.

Make no mistake about it, played correctly that list can crush a more well rounded list. Concentration of force is a real thing and that many tanks in one spot is hard to stop.

I'm also probably forgetting something in the soviet list. Bartosz was there, he might remember

Delayed Reserves, and Confident failing you when you needed it the most, is what killed you. Delayed Reserves on it's own is one of those mission rules that usually means it'll be a tough game for defender, unless you have nothing but shitty chaff to throw in there. Being a tank army that's automatically dumped into defense against that, also sucks. In short, I blame the mission more than the apparent quality of the opponent's list.

I assume that's 1800pts. Based on bare numbers and no upgrades... If I was to throw together an LL Tank list, I'd probably do something more like:
8 76mm M4s
6 75mm M4s
3 ISU-122
4 SU-85
3-stand Spetsnaz
6 gun battery of 120mm Hvy Mortars + observer

1795. Anything more would go towards escorts, .50cals, upping the SU-85s to 85Ms, and/or increasing the ISUs to 4-strong. An alternative would be to swap the ISUs for 4 SU-122s, SU-85M upgrade, and all the escorts/.50cals I can buy...

It was something like 1750 or 1850, cant remember which.

It wasnt just me he browbeat though, if I remember right he won.

All I'm saying is try playing against that list sometime as a defender, its harder than it looks. It's one thing to sit here and say its a terrible list and an entirely different one to have to stare it down across the table.

If I remember right he won *the tourney*

sorry not sure why that cut off there of all places.

All I know is its made me super paranoid with list building now, at least when it comes to AT capability.

How are cromwell companies?

Fast.

So question, how much armour would a P1000 Ratte have in terms of Flames of War?

Too much

Helpful. Really helpful.

I have no experience with Cromwell Companies, so I can't really help you there.

As for the Ratte, it was a literal Land Battleship. So I would imagine it would be armored like a battleship.

It was apparently meant too have up too 360mm of armour. Whats the thickest armour that has stats in FoW?

The Jagdtiger's max frontal armour is 250mm and is rated as 16. Which makes it straight up immune to the 88 Kwk 43.

360mm of armor makes it straight up immune to most Battleship guns; It's 14 fucking inches thick.

Anyone else looking at the Leopard week at Beasts of War?

They've done some pretty nice things there, like a blog about quickly but effectively painting a West German army.
Today, they posted a bunch of brainstorming about making an Iceland campaign based on Red Storm Rising.

I'm a few episodes behind, I saw their first 3 or 4 videos on Leopard.

Decent quality stuff with good input from Phill.