Savage RIFTS

While narrativist games tend not to have heavy crunch, narrativism and crunch aren't directly opposed. Also, I'd say that Savage Worlds is pretty clearly rules-medium.

I play RIFTS mostly as written its not that broken and the universe and setting are fun and intricate.

Savage worlds feels like "here play only the hero and makevdamn sure your not conflicted or messed up in anyway. This is a game for happy kind people...."
Its a white Knight system and a half

>SW is about "muh story" and rewards playing to tropes.
Are you sure you know what Savage Worlds is? Because there's quite a difference between it and games like FATE, which construct plot according to meta-story aspects. In Savage Worlds, your character is effective according to his abilities and skills, not his role in the story.

But to answer OP's question - No, SW is not worst than Palladium. Palladium's Megaverse system (or whatever they call it) is a half-ass house-ruled AD&D 1e by an over-confident "game designer". Siembieda is a joke. The RIFTS setting isn't bad, but the system is unnecessarily clunky and has a ton of elements that don't mesh: rules that only apply to certain situations --- that shit is retarded.

The SW version is smoother to run and makes the setting more attractive to new players since it uses a system that has an actual fan base in 2016.

It's possible I don't. I confuse it with Burning Wheel all the time, idk why.

What are you talking about Rifts is fucking sweet.

Savage Worlds is about whatever the GM and players make it about... Please explain to me how a game with ranks (levels) that grant ability/skill/edge improvements, a strict encumbrance system, and character sheet sections for equipment, location-specific armor, and weapons is exclusively about "muh story".

Son, you're a paying member of the bandwagon.

I was a die hard RIFTS and TMNT & Other Strangeness fan as a kid when I didn't know other systems. I've run the SW RIFTS several times now for my group and it's fun to enjoy that world again.

>hipsters (the type of player who plays SW)
Again, that doesn't follow. Why would hipsters play SW?

And yes, Rifts is pretty bad and awkward and outdated in every facet. Which is why it would appeal to hipsters wanting to play it ironically.
Same with OD&D and FATAL.

When a hipster does something as a hipster or to be a hipster it's so they can talk about it later. If they wanted to play an RPG ironically it would be something that used to be important or something that is known to be normally unpleasant.
If they wanted to play something to feel like they're doing something counterculture they'd probably play any edition of D&D because of the moral panic it was at the center of, and because it's by far the most recognizable name. "Oh man, we're such rebellious nerds, playing this pretend-demons game, lol, you guys see that Chic Tract? My guy's name is Blackleaf."

They wouldn't be predisposed to playing SW because the only people that think SW is especially counter to anything are people on the internet who don't seem to know what a hipster actually is.

Hipsterdom is relative, there are hipster neckbeards.

You're trying too hard. Going in circles now. Stop.

Exactly!

I've played in SW games where it was full of stage-worthy character acting. Super focused on narrative and gave no shits about the character's stats, mechanics, etc. I've also played in DCC RPG and Labyrinth Lord games that had the same emphasis. I've also been in Savage Worlds games that was nothing but rolling dice and combat. Showdowns anyone? The way the game is actually played is totally up to the group, not the system.

Calling someone a "hipster" because they want to play in a narrative-driven game doesn't even make sense in content to the word. It's a role-playing game... isn't it supposed to be narrative-driven?

Did you link to the wrong post? Because while you seem to be arguing with me, your points agree with mine.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

Everyone Rifts game I have ever been in has been habdwavy shenanigans. Like Exalted.

The denial is real.

How about a fucking pdf of the preview so we can judge for ourselves?

You mean the ones with our names on every page so they can tell who uploaded them?
Im good hahaha
Ill copy a section of text from the gm or players guide for you if you want, what part do you want?

As far as I understand, the Coalition always had overt Nazi-homage in their upper echelons. The Palledium rulebook also mentioned or included an essay that Karl Prosek had written which praised Hitler's methods of social control. That shit ain't new.

What game is better and why?

You do know it is pretty fucking easy to scrub a pdf file of that shit right?

No i dont know how actually

siam.org/journals/identity.php

lmgtfy.com/?q=removing personal information from pdf

From the PDF share thread:
userscloud.com/rtpr6z4zjqr3

Note also that you cannot be convicted simply because your file ended up online. Only if they can actually prove YOU shared it will it matter that your name is all over it.

You know, for once in these Rifts threads, I wish somebody would actually explain what is so unplayable about the Palladium system. I've been poring over the books, the original, Ultimate Edition and even the q&a shit from the Game Master Guide, and while the system feels dated it's certainly far from the train wreck I was preparing myself for. I've GMed a few sessions with my group and the games were fun, exciting and the system didn't get in our way. What's the deal?

>siam.org/journals/identity.php
It's mostly neckbeard bandwagon regurgitation. The game basically plays like a house-ruled version of early D&D. I think the main ACTUAL problem people have is with the character creation, which can be quite extensive. I remember easily spending 3+ hours on a single character. We never played in the same session where we created characters.

It's a Fantasy heartbreaker, basically just a houseruled AD&D 1e, a genre of game that was big in the 80's, and not an especially good one at that. Add to this the terribly stupid skills system, the authors intense weapons-grade autism and it's endless employment is the "kitchen sink" school of setting creation and it deserves it's place in the pantheon of terribad games.

Holy fuck, what a shitty sharing site. I got a ransomware ad there that my anti-virus laughed at. Whatever happened to using Mega or Mediafire?

no clue dude. I just linked it from the PDF thread. I didn't post the file up.

I have yet to check it out. On the one hand I'm glad that Savage Worlds dragged Rifts into the 21st century at least in principle. Savage Rifts sounds like it is functionally Rifts Second Edition. On the other hand, the little bits and pieces I've heard about it make the game sound like it is some kind of "meme version" of Rifts. At least at times.

My group made all 4 of our characters with some GM guidance it they only took like an hour. The class descriptions tell you everything you get, even starting equipment.
See, stuff like this. What exactly makes its skill system stupid?

>What exactly makes its skill system stupid?

Some skills give laughably weak benefits while others (Boxing) are a must-have for literally every character. Couple this with the fact that skills depends only on your character level and not your stats (with the minor exception of IQ, but only for very high IQ scores) and the glacial rate of improvement and you're left with a whole part of the game that is simply ignored by 99% of people who play the game.

No. Nobody here thinks that because its stupid. Nobody except you.

>>What exactly makes its skill system stupid?

Shit like the eight or so horsemanship skills, or the 3-4 medical skills that are mechanically the identical but use different fluff, like you have "Normal" First Aid, "Herbalist" First Aid, "Eastern" First Aid, and so on.

>Coalition forces went from dark grey to nazis with actual refrences to using Hitler as jump off point for there leaders.

They were always explicitly Techno-Nazis, and the Prozek regime has an approval rating that any modern politician would kill for.

The only thing that changed over time was that the apologism got fiercer - almost every Coalition character with a write up would make an Imperial Guard Commissar give a grudging nod of approval.

A *few* have doubts, and this is taken as an excuse to say that the majority 'aren't really Nazis, it's just the leadership - and that the leadership aren't really Nazi's either, it's just that it's a Tough World and sometimes that means pulling on your jackboots and burning some untermenschen'.

Those both sound like just shitty GMing to me.

Then you've never looked at the RIFTS skill list.

Looking at the Ultimate Edition skill list right now. Different horsemanship skills provide different mounted combat stats/types of animals you have skill in riding. I wouldn't expect a guy who rides horses all the time to be able to just get on a gryphon like nothing.

>First Aid
>Field Surgery
>Paramedic
>Holistic Medicine
>Medical Doctor
>Cybernetic Medicine
The GM just calls for whichever one the situation requires, or lets the player use a different one at a penalty. Every single skill has literally paragraphs explaining in what situations they're applicable.

Oh I see you're retarded. Carry on.

Thank god somebody finally told me.

There are times that I've considered going through various Palladium games, compiling their common rules, and hacking a core rules system together.

It's Rifts, it's not supposed to be good. That's part of the charm.

Boxing only gives you the extra attack in melle combat, the knockout benifit is only with fists and feet not weapons,its not really that broken, its also not available to all classes.
Your gm should be ruling on this first aid should not be allowed to be rolled with out some serious negatives for say a gun shot to the head, and wouldnt help at all with finding an herbal cure for a posioning or illiness, its a higher % than like paramedic so it makes since for small stuff to roll it instead.
Why should the skills be massive growth rates, when they cap out at 98% with no bonuses from gear or situations (or negatives) other wise at lv 5 youd be prowling at 90% or riding a horse through unstable ground under mortar fire at 85% . There needs to be failure for drama and luck.

Also having 5 horsemanship's doesnt hurt as they all give diffrent benifits. Cowboy and knight are night and day diffrent.

Rifts isnt broken, itvis playble , lots of people do play it. Having sweet robots and mages and cyborgs and druggie assassins running around togeather can bevgreat fun you just have to a gm that says "thats to weak or thats to strong for what im running ".
No one is equal in real life why should they be in game ability wise.

>Every single skill has literally paragraphs explaining in what situations they're applicable.
You... you actually think this is a positive in a roleplaying game?!? Good Lord.

Have fun with your 500+ skills. There's a reason Palladium was almost dead before this SW deal.

That was the user arguing against RIFTs I think.

Wrong, all "actions" in combat are referred to as "Melee Attacks." Thus Boxing nonsensically gives you more shots when riding your Glitterboy. It was especially broken in earlier printings of Palladium games that implied that you could take the same skill multiple times and reap the bonuses multiple times. Thankfully that disappeared fairly early, the only book that I own with it is a first print run of TMNT.

No. That was not Seimbieda's intention. Rifts is bad in a sincere way. You shouldn't run or play Rifts in a LOLSOBAD manner. No, one should run and play it sincerely and from there the entertainment flows as it plays like pure schlock.

I'm ashamed to admit I actually like Rifts along with all of its haphazard rules. There's a certain charm to it's design, as though it's an rpg from an alternate reality where 80's game design never died off.

I'm actually in the middle of a campaign after picking up the Ultimate Edition a few months ago. The rules were a little rough to pick up at first, but by even the second session I'm running it without a hitch. I think the secret to running a Palladium game is to use the rules like a tool box and not be an autist.

Yeah, the game rules are the rpg counterpart to a redneck's homemade, jury-rigged whisky still, but I actually like it.

There's definitely some fun to be had in Rifts and the Megaversal system. You just have to be aware of what the problems and limitations are.

To me it's pretty similar to 3.5/Pathfinder in that respect. It's got a whole mess of problems, but you just have to know what they are and what the expectations are supposed to be.

Only on rereading it now do I see how stupidly redundant the second line is, so I guess I'm more drunk than I thought.

>Coalition forces went from dark grey to nazis with actual refrences to using Hitler as jump off point for there leaders.
Sounds like they actually read the original Rifts book.

On the one hand, I didn't like the palladium system, for reasons everyone else has pointed out.

On the other hand, I fucking hate savage worlds' game mechanics. From its combat rules to its dice system to how important bennies are and how they effectively *are* your HP.

I don't think I could run it without changing a lot of the numbers - the Glitterboy has ridiculous role protection that makes robot weapons twice the size half as good, and infantry weapons equivalent to MD tank cannons etc etc etc.

And I'd probably add in a simple DR system to tone down the Malvoren/"just tie 1000 laser pistols together and kill everything" effect and make it less nonsensical to actually field MD armour with how expensive it is to repair.

>RIFTS is one of those famously bad games, like Synnibar and SenZar, that no-one actually plays because the system is basically non-functional.
Hey, SenZar actually works pretty well.

>with our names on every page
If you get them from the PEG site, and not DTRPG, they aren't watermarked.

Let's bump this shit.

I'm a little worried about how the damage vs toughness system is going to work with such inflated numbers. Other than that the Savage Rifts rules look pretty good to me.

>SW is about "muh story" and rewards playing to tropes.

user have you even read or playing Savage Worlds?

Seriously it's pretty straight up traditional and not narrative.

Don't forget the Cowboy skills category. With such essential skills as Herding Cattle, Breaking/Taming Wild Horses, and Branding!

> Rifts
> Gamist

> Savage Worlds
> Narrativist

You have no idea what you are talking about.

>ITT Rifts players have no idea how to remove PDF watermarks
>ITT Rifts NEETs arguing over skill lists
>ITT Rifts confirmed for inbred white redneck game

Sounds like a good time to me.

Well, I found the trick to dealing with a glitterboy is to try and coax them out of their armour.

Having failed that arm a villain with a nuke

The obvious solution to countering a player Glitter Boy is to have an enemy Glitter Boy.

>ultra "gamist" game like RIFTS
Rifts is more of a simulationist game. It doesn't even try to balance classes. Glitter Boys are gods in combat and Vagabonds are near useless at everything, because that's what they're "suppose" to be like according to their fluff.

I will say that at least Rifts doesn't pretend that class balance is a part of the system unlike certain other RPGs that are far more popular.

Mother of god,

All 3 of my virus scanners went apeshit over this thing.

Anyone got a clean link?

Rifts has one of the absolute worst system ever deviced. I haven't read the Savage world version of Rifts, it can only be better.

Rifts is awesome despite its system, so it'll still be awesome and atleast it wont the the Palladium system, which is just horrible.

And I own most of the TMNT and Rifts books.

>that no-one actually plays
Except people do, despite the non-functional system, and it's non-functional, it's horrible.

I only hope Svage World don't try to rebalance everything for ist system rather than just letting things be what they should be in the setting.

>Savage worlds feels like "here play only the hero and makevdamn sure your not conflicted or messed up in anyway. This is a game for happy kind people...."
>Its a white Knight system and a half
I honestly don't know what you're talking about. The Savage World core book includes hindrances like Bloodthirsty and Vengeful. The most well supported setting for the system is Deadlands, a horror western. When they made an original supers setting it was about villains fighting an alien invasion because the heroes are all already dead.

>villains fighting an alien invasion because the heroes are all already dead.
That's...actually a pretty cool premise for a supers game. Hunh.

It's called Necessary Evil.