>inb4 4e hate
Going to run a 4e game for some friends. Been a while since we've had time to sit down and do a real proper campaign, so I thought to make something simple with a monster hunting style beginning before going Far Realm eldritch horror on them later. What would be three or four really good monsters I could have my players try to hunt up at 1st level?
Also, post monster pics so the thread has a purpose otherwise. I'll dump a handful myself.
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>1st level
After their first several successful hunts, have them take down something waaay above their paygrade. Make sure they understand that they can't just wack this next monster with their swords a bunch of times, in open combat it will absolutely wreck them; they'll need to investigate what exactly has been terrorizing the countryside, what its weaknesses are, and how they can ambush it/trap it/vanquish it without exposing their squishy bits.
Alternatively, have them hear rumors from scared, ignorant peasants about how a shambling mass of tentacles and otherworldly terror has been picking off their livestock one by one every week or so. Upon investigating, a trail is found leading back to a nest of kobolds or whatever-the-fuck who have mocked up a 2spooky monster outfit and gone raiding at night to feed their kids.
So a monster that's higher level, or scooby doo Kobolds, eh? I rather like the idea of something inconsequential parading about as something horrifying, but might save that for later when they start coming across more aberrant influences regularly. Would make a neat segue into it. Nice idea though.
Jiang Shi are one of my favorite undead types. Definitely going to have to have my players face some later down the road.
While 1st level is a better starting point in 4e than it is in most versions of D&D, I'd still suggest starting at 3rd level instead. It gives a few more options and generally makes the game more fun.
For a monster hunting campaign, I'd say you should also try and experiment a bit with your combats. 4e's solid combat system (with the math fixes and avoiding Essentials classes) allows you to try weird stuff without risking unbalancing the game.
Something I've always loved the idea of is fighting giant monsters, Shadow of the Colossus style, or even larger. You can use environmental attacks, multiple linked map zones with different vulnerable points and such to make a really interesting and enjoyable fight against various huge monsters.
>with the math fixes and avoiding Essentials classes
Essentials classes are fine (if a bit boring) at low levels.
Well, 4e has some low-level young dragons. If you do use them, use their Monster Vault versions.
4e's boss monsters can be statted in two ways:
- Low hit points with high defenses (higher-level elite).
- High hit points with low defenses (at-level solo).
They provide different play experiences, so you can have statistically similar challenges while having the fights be wildly different (for example fighting a tough monster vs. fighting a nimble monster that goes down more easily).
The classics are always fun - giant snails, giant frogs, dire wolves, dinosaurs and sabertooth cats are all relatively "normal" monsters if you don't want to go into dragon/bulette/froghemoth/purple worm territory, and might be more interesting to begin with, since it makes the more extraordinary/magical monsters later in the game feel different.
And straight up suck later in the game. Why would you play a less interesting version of a class that already exists?
Essentials has melee warlocks and striker paladins while regular 4e doesn't.
Starting at 1st because one of the players is new to the system, but loves crunchy style combat, so should be a good fit. Don't plan on using conventional leveling, so they should get there within a few sessions, play time permitting.
I was thinking something at level for their first run, throw the curve around level two.
Players are Deva Wizard, Tiefling Warlord and Human Barbarian, so classes are already set. Shouldn't be a problem otherwise. Save for the newbie, this isn't our first 4e game, so maths will be proper and feat taxes waived.
>Striker Paladins
You mean, uh, Avengers?
Think he's referring to the Blackguard. It was alright. Not much to write home about mechanic wise, but it was a neat detour from the norm.
>3 characters
Stay away from solos. A single at-level elite monster (which "counts" as two regular monsters) should be enough of a challenge for a party of level 1 because of their limited power supply.
Going by pic related, a level 1 elite should have ~64 hp, defenses of 15/13, and an average damage-per-round of 18 (provided it hits with everything). You don't want to have a lot of multi-target powers since they could take the entire party down in one set of unlucky rolls.
You might want to provide them an NPC defender. Play them safe and slow, just a meatshield to help keep them alive, but Striker/Leader/Controller is a bit of a squishy group composition, even if Warlord is one of the toughest Leaders.
I was indeed referring to Blackguards. Avengers are mobile and accurate while Blackguards are heavy hitters with a twist of Controller.
I completely agree that Slayer, Thief, etc. all feel kinda lackluster later in the game.
An NPC defender sounds like a good idea but from personal experience it works out to be really boring.
If the defender is doing their job right then lots of the monsters are attacking them and so it ends up being the DM basically playing with themselves (lol) a lot.
The Barb and Wiz are both going Con builds, and the Warlord is Resource variant. I don't perceive them having too much trouble honestly, unless they end up being inept as hell. That said, this is our fourth 4e game we're going to be running, so I have a pretty good handle on what and what not to do, as well as how to adjust math for what I need. I trust the two vets to direct the newbie well against a fair challenge.
I'm more looking for shit to throw them against rather than advice on how to run it. Be it stat blocks or just creature concepts. A few neat options to start them out with so they can pick what they want to follow up on from a few hooks. I thought about making an Id Fiend one of the creatures with a bit of an HP and damage adjustment.
Gotcha. Well, I'd still advise you to prepare some interesting locations as well as creatures, so you're ready if the players decide to lure a monster into an ambush/favored terrain etc.
You could do a small story arc with fey creatures popping up at random, trying to reclaim their old hunting ground?
Oh absolutely. Wouldn't be a good monster hunting game otherwise.
Enemies that bring the environment with them are always interesting, and provide a great reason to hunt them.
>winter wolf/wolves cause the harvest to fail
>monsters have auras as well as lair actions/advantages in their home territory like in 5e
Non-recognizable furry/feathered dinosaurs might be fun. Taste like chicken.
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Ohh I like this idea a lot. I'll add it to the list.
Considering they're starting in a fairly temperate zone near the end of summer, this is a neat idea too. We haven't touched 5e yet, so not sure about the little tidbits it added to encounter building for monsters like Lair actions. I should really pick up one of the books for reference.
If you want to do lots of tactical combat against monsters you picked the correct edition.
Prepare for Epic 6 hour grid fights !
Or, give them a defender, but only for a while. Kill him off halfway through the mission, surprise the players, raise the stakes, that sort of thing.
Make sure he gives them some advice about survival while he's still alive, and then you can see if they put any of his advice into practice when they're on their own.
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I often use the 5e Monster Manual when making updated versions of monsters that have been part of the game for several generations, since there are a lot of very fluffy powers and abilities that can be easily used in 4e but which weren't because of design philosophy. For example, I don't think core 4e does vulnerability very well.
Lair actions are basically hazards that can't be disabled and which act at certain initiative points (such as 0), but which only become relevant if the group actually fights the monster on its home turf.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has almost all of the items, in case you want some inspiration for rewards that will appear interesting even for 4e veterans.
We've stated piece mealing some other games apart to add to or adjust our previous 4e campaigns, so there's a few houserules already in effect at the table. Conditions are a big one. We use the Resistance/Vulnerability rules from 13th Age instead actually.
What books would you suggest picking up for the most inspiration? We're all planning on steering clear of 5e (we were involved in the beta testing up to the end. We did not like what we saw), but I'll grab two or three books to use for inspiration if anything.
I think dragons in Monster Vault had auras that activated or got more dangerous when they were bloodied.
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DM's Guild has a lot of interesting stuff, but the core DM stuff from 5e (Monster Manual and Dungeon Master's Guide) would be good for inspiration in general. Like the 4e DMGs, the 5e DMG has a lot of setting-neutral tips.
13th Age is also awesome for interesting stuff for 4e, and the resistance/vulnerability is really easy to lift from it. In our game of 4e, we've had resistance changed so that anything below 5/10/15 (by tier) is 25% resistance while 5/10/15 and higher is 50% resistance. Seeing as you're using 13th Age style resistance, you could have certain weapons (like a spear made with wolfbane against a werewolf) bypass monster resistance entirely or just more easily (like reducing 16+ to 11+).
If you're not already using the escalation die mechanic, you could use it for certain fights in order to just increase crit chance, like if a monster has an aura of spores that drive everything into a frenzy.
"Bring the environment with them" is a good idea, too. Some ideas are a chimera that causes fire to shoot from the ground, or an avalanche dragon that shifts the terrain around.
We're still not sure if we want to add the Escalation Die to our games. We've played with larger damage values than larger defenses, so accuracy hasn't ever been a real problem. We're looking to add general miss damage and Mooks this time around otherwise.
Set pieces
Set pieces
Set pieces
no empty rooms or barren fields,4e needs there to be something of interest to interact with or avoid every battle
Again, need ideas for monsters, not advice running the game. Save for one of us, this isn't our first rodeo.
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Best demon lord or at least my favorite
I love DnD Dagon and Demogorgon.
Two of the betters. Not too fond of many of the base Demon Lords, but they get a pass for design and style. Have a Demogorgon.
I've decided to use the esc die and then often have the enemies fight enemies that have higher defenses - but we're at epic tier, so it's mostly to offset some enemies' total lack of defensive options.
A good way to try out a new rule is to limit it to a certain monster. Like having an escalation die that increases critical hit range by +1 every turn for everything (like I suggested in , and like the Marilith in 13th Age does). Or maybe add +3 to damage for every 1 on the esc die.
~Half damage on natural even misses is a good way to add "grazing hits" to enemies that are supposed to wear down even tough and armored PCs.
We might pick it up later for something. At the moment, it's one of the things we haven't poached, but we're still feeling a few things out. Play time has been limited, and our last game didn't get past Paragon due to life piling up for people. Maybe as a later addition. I like the idea of it being a damage/crit buffer as opposed to accuracy. Certainly makes some enemies nastier seeming.
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The most likely candidate for final boss of the campaign so far.
That's it from me for the moment folks. I'll come back again in a bit. First level monster ideas are still welcome, or just dump more cool monster pics.
For interesting low-level monsters, check out the Dark Sun Creature Catalog. Things there are different enough that most newer players won't recognize them.
For interesting monsters, vary their primary senses. Especially those hunting by tremorsense pose a significantly different challenge from those using only normal sight and hearing.
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Is it possible to carve up monsters and make gear straight from their skin, Monster Hunter-style? I'm a total newfag at tabletop so I'm gonna guess you can do anything, but I don't know how flexible these game systems can be.
In 4e you could link certain weapon/armor enchantments to certain monster parts.
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I really like these minor fantasy critters. Reminds me of pic related.
Ha, I was about to post that one earlier.
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Feng Zhu is a teacher of concept art, and he put up a really great blog post a few months back of one of his student's projects: a more realistic take on Monster Hunter. The whole project is really interesting and inspiring.
Google "Feng Zhu Monster Hunter" if you're interested. I'd post a link but Veeky Forums doesn't seem to like URLs.
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Those are some cool swords!
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OP here. That's what part of the plan was to do. It would have a different effect for each combination of stuff would be for Weapon and Armor, but straight up magic gear is going to be pretty rare in the game. Players gotta throw science at the blacksmiths to see what sticks for them. Or at least give me an idea of what sort of gear they want and hunt monsters down to make it. Can't make Reactive Lightning Armor out of Fire Beetle hides...