Jumpchain CYOA Thread #970: +5 Jump of True Resurrection Edition

I'd say three but unless the perk(s) explicitly say either way it is completely up to you.

Scott Pilgrim, Rust, and the Kisk Stone from Aion

Someone explain R-type and all its technology to me. What is it capable of?

I have returned to the land of cheeseburgers. I am ready, once more, to discuss the Kung-Fu Hustle Jump (thanks for all the suggestions people left on the G-Drive copy). docs.google.com/document/d/1FeqFpjOJUOjCojTGxTwJdXBCUUr5cTydt6GbBklG7mk/edit

>Also, I've got to ask, how do extra lives perks work post-spark?

I don't know. Probably one time use. I wouldn't worry that much.

You can probably get a lot more via replicating some ways of getting extra lives from various universes, and probably have more than enough immoralities so you don't have to worry about that plus the Oldwalker immortality.

In theory the Healing Bandages in my KFH jump, and the Stone of Ephemeral Eyes from Demon's Souls

And I'll be including "Extra Lives Quarter" if I do a Ready Player One Jump

>Also, I've got to ask, how do extra lives perks work post-spark?
More than a few of them read as regenerating every decade after use.

Also, depending on how you read it, Dark Binding from Hellsing does that. Just burn away a few souls to keep yourself alive through something that would have killed you.

>if
so that's unclaimed right now?
It's one of my favorite Sci-Fi settings and I would love to do the jump on it when I'm done with Traveler's Gate

>how do extra lives perks work post-spark

Fanwank something. I simply decided that any perk or item that operates "per jump" becomes "per decade" post-chain.

>Also, depending on how you read it, Dark Binding from Hellsing does that. Just burn away a few souls to keep yourself alive through something that would have killed you.

Speaking of Dark Binding, how many souls those who picked this perk have collected over the centuries? Do they help you in your battles? Do you talk to them?

Eye of Set - Sword & Sorcery
Gift of the Thousand Master - Negima
Demon King's Power - Demon King Daimao
Crossing the Dragon Streams - Devil Survivor 2
Spirit + Rank Up x2 - Bartimaeus Sequence
something in Vampire Diaries but I don't really give that jump much of the time of day.
Abyss of Magic + Level One Hundred Magic Caster - Overlord
The Overlord's Seat - Shin Megami Tensei
Magician perk tree in Kingdom Hearts
Save the Queen + Save the Queen+ in Kingdom Hearts
Magician perk tree in Magi
The Mage Birthsign - Elder Scrolls Morrowblivion
Dresden Files. Just. Fucking. Dresden Files.

There's UNDOUBTEDLY a fucktonne more I'm forgetting.

As far as I know, no one's claimed it, and I haven't . If you want to do it, I'm all for a) letting you, b) helping you brainstorm, or c) coauthoring it with you. I love it too, but it's currenly 17th on my build list.

For the Weapon Breakdown drawback, would our hands break if that our weapon?

Change the meta nature of Ascetic Living. It's absurdly unbalanced, encourages you to abuse jumps solely to get more cp to power up other stuff and operates on the assumption that CP is worth equal amounts of things in differing jumps, which is insane.

>House of 72 tenants
No. Either remove or change to stop them leaving the place and be powerless. Otherwise it's just 72 pods that don't respawn (But you can resurrect yourself) and can't be imported (But you can give them stuff yourself).

>CP getting companions
No. Just remove them. This shouldn't even need explaining for the bullshit that these are.

ah, well, we'll see how Traveler's Gate turns out first then, if it's decent enough when I finally post it I'd consider myself worthy of doing Ready Player One, otherwise I'll wait a bit and keep working on stuff in Traveler's Gate

I use Dark Binding to bind a cat.

I disagree with this user. Leave it.

Justify why.

Alright, well, Ascetic Living is too meta, shouldn't be based on cp costs between jump since 1000cp in Slice of Life is not 1000cp in let's say Asura's Wrath.

For that matter... Doubling/tripling a power every five years is bugfuck crazy in terms of power. What were you thinking?
And continuing the scenario companions debate... I still think it's too much. Especially with something so... meta. Personally, I don't think any companions should automatically get free stuff in other jumps. It just fucks utterly with jump balance.

Especially not when it's ATLEAST 1000cp for free every fucking jump for your Drop-In tree guy, even 'unoptimized' that's utterly ridiculous. And you said he's a "permanent drawback" because of his morals? That just sounded silly to me.

You have a point on the Beast's unoptimization. But I'd put his caps much lower. Make it something like 200 per perk, 400 max, and I'll /grudgingly/ accept that. Giving capstones for free is just... no.

I'd just like to second everything said, though I like how the rest of the jump's going.

The souls I grab with DB are fuel. They're there to boost my abilities and keep me alive if I run into something that kills me. Now, I don't harvest everything I kill this way. Only the evil ones and only those that I can easily contain.

Now, good souls? If someone solid around me dies, I give them an option: I can help them pass, I can give them a lift to the afterlife, or they can join me on my travels. That's the upshot of being a Valkyrie.

So, all told, I'm pretty full up on souls.

I'd watch my step around Ghost Rider.

I shouldn't have to. Your only justification is, 'because that's bullshit'. No justification at all is better than that.

I like this, but I'd dump the companions that gain CP. That always causes bullshit and drama.

Hey /JC/ I need some good jumps to import my "evil" companion into for him to get more evil powers.

>Companions that get CP every jump

Wonderful, it's like you want to be the next Doom.

Hint: Doom caused a shitstorm with it and fucked up every jump's balance with that option alone, and Babylon decided he absolutely had to follow suite with the halfling you can companion in Warhammer Fantasy's Nemesis list.

But it is bullshit! It's bullshit and I don't like it, so it should be changed.

Alright. It breaks jump balance in other jumps. It fucks with other peoples jumps. It's crazy meta and is near universally frowned on. Similar jumps that used to have those sorts of companions like RWBY and MGS had them changed so they didn't give CP or perks in future jumps.

Now justify why they should be kept.

Not him but for the sake of an actual debate I'm going to explain why I feel each is unacceptable:

Ascetic Living: Falls into the issue of interjump balance by incentivising taking jumps in a specific order, which is considered undesired when jumps are supposed to stand by themselves.

72 tenants: Replaces one of the key premises of the whole shebang; before you cite something like blue feathers as a counterpoint you have to admit even that is a combo, not something attainable from a singular jump

CP getting companions: Admittedly it's not as astrong an argument but after the RWBY fiasco there's been fairly vocal opposition among thread as a whole against CP getting companions

Also you know if you're going to choose scapegoats you could've cited Bancho's CP-gaining companion in the original PS238 jump

How about the fact that it single-handedly tells every other Jump-maker's balance "Fuck you, I can do what I want."

This shit introduces inter-jump balance.

Don't forget even Doom tried to fix his jump's cp giving companion and only didn't because people screamed at him until he left.

Tera changed that bullshit after getting shat on considerably hard for it.

Least. I remember him changing it. If he didn't actually and PS238 still has that, then let's go ahead and add THAT to the list of people SJ-Chan wants to be known alongside.

user's only reasoning for it to be changed is that they want inter-jump balance though. SJ-chan should just ignore them and their incessant bitching.

I thought he did too, hence why I specified the original draft. Honestly I don't consider anything he makes worth paying attention too so I can't say for sure

Alright then. Guess any future jumps can just add a "select X perk from another jump for free, no drawbacks attached" item.

Because that seems to be something you want.

He EVENTUALLY did. This was after what, 2 years of it being shat on? Not saying it wasn't removed but he definitely shouldn't get any kudos for it.

You realise that all 3 of the issues mentioned explicitly apply to other jumps and 2 are in fact designed around other jumps?

>user's

The least you can do is specify whether you're referring to me or the original responder. I specifically said I oppose the listed features BECAUSE they FACILLITATE interjump balance, not because I WANT any to exist.

Assuming I ditch the Meta nature of Ascetic Living, which I'm not at all adverse to, do you have a mechanism to suggest which accomplishes the benefits? I needed a metric to quantify giving stuff up... CP just seemed the best way, and the scaling becomes quickly ludicrous to slow abuse.

Not sure what you mean about the House, the tenants aren't companions, they don't follow your orders, and all have their own agendas. I'm not sure what you mean about them being ressurectable.

Cool cool. If you decide you want to claim RP1 and want my help, leave me a note on whatever my most current WIP jump is.

>Absorbing the most pure of creatures
That's gonna be bad for your health, user.

You seem to be skipping over the "CP-getting Companion."

The issue about the House is that a central premise of Jumpchain is companionhood/pods are the only means you're supposed to be capable of taking along willing sentient beings with you; he's referring to the fact that those also have the ability to be resurrected from untimely death. As I've said before I still feel the House is an extensive breach of Jumpchain convention considering one can simply choose people who are suggestible to take along.

Due to the versatility of powers in jumpchain I suggest you quantify it much more simply: Just state that the greater the magnitude of the powers you seal the greater your remaining powers are enhanced proportionally so long as you maintain your ascetism

The Boss and Venom Snake gain perks and a free origin costing 200 or less. That gives them a huge customization range as you can choose to import them that way or whatever the in jump option is.

I like the House. It's thematic to the setting and a cool idea with awesome flavour, and your arguments don't hold up to what's already in other jumps.

>Otherwise it's just 72 pods that don't respawn (But you can resurrect yourself) and can't be imported (But you can give them stuff yourself).

So it's like fresh pink roses, except it's rotted black husks? No, seriously:

"But you can resurrect yourself" So? What about Dark Binding and similar perks? They allow nomming people before jump #1 ends, spitting them back out in #2 and rezzing them. Poof, no need for pods, carry as many people as you can nom+rez.

"But you can give them stuff yourself" So? You can already give stuff to anyone you meet in a jump, they don't need to be companions for that. The things you can't give tenants are the exact same things you can't give anyone who isn't a companion.

Tenants aren't Companions. Not even close. Keep the House.

>Assuming I ditch the Meta nature of Ascetic Living, which I'm not at all adverse to, do you have a mechanism to suggest which accomplishes the benefits? I needed a metric to quantify giving stuff up... CP just seemed the best way, and the scaling becomes quickly ludicrous to slow abuse.
Not him, but... why not just make it give you a boost in practicing/learning instead literally doubling a power? Because that doubling is just stupid unbalanced too.

>Not sure what you mean about the House, the tenants aren't companions, they don't follow your orders, and all have their own agendas. I'm not sure what you mean about them being ressurectable.
The points is that you can just boot the originals out, and fill the House with whatever not-companions you want to cart around. So, basically pods without import ability.

As I've conceded, that part's a much weaker argument. All I can say to that is there has always been a lot of controversy over CP-gaining companions and that those jumps were from the early days when What Jumpchain Should Be Like, and that these days consensus seems to be against that sort of thing.

Change the perk entirely? Not sure if you've been around long enough but perks that directly affect all other perks rarely work out well. See Real Eater and Sacrificial Bestowment for examples of how the perk either overtakes almost all discussion about the jump or just provokes endless questions on it. Far as I know this isn't exactly an ability that directly represents something in the movies either. Or do as suggest and make it a relative power thing instead of exact CP.

You can choose who to bring from jump to jump, the item outright says this, you can make them follow through force or charisma, same as before with agendas since you can convince them otherwise or control them and resurrection can be done with many systems of magic. They're pods without imports (Not that bad given many people don't import companions and you can give plenty of power anyway to them without importing) and without auto respawn (Which you can do on your own through many means).

Apparently I have an old version of the jump. No matter, we can get Kanons or whoever made it to change that because it should be changed. Clover changed RWBY over this, there's no reason MGS should keep something like this.
I have the jump open

I can't wait for the seven worm update.
>spoilers how said tinker gets a headache will probably be a highlight.

I'll add though, that I agree that I'm not at all keen on the companions from this jump getting their own set of rules that basically override companion import options of other jumps.

Ignore that last part, should've been deleted when I checked the current jump rather then my saved one.

No. Just trying to keep the two debates seperate so I can focus on fixing the two that are issues and listen to the feedback on the ones that are pretty much either an up or down vote. One's a matter of revision and suggestions, the other being told to just ditch it.

Getting a Reward Companion that has no special value aside from being a Companion fails to reward. It's not impress, it's not worth taking what would otherwise be a fairly major Drawback with a Fail State.

Not him but

>It's thematic to the setting

Since the latter part is subjective I'm just going to focus on the fact that an apartment that follows you from jump to jump and naturally attracts tenants would be equally if not more thematic without challenging the convention of non-companion followers; most of the tenants aren't main characters after all

>But what about dark binding

Setting aside dark binding's controversy when Hellsing jump first came out, there's a distinction between what you can do with your own abilities/perks and what most people feel should be offered as a purchase in a jump. This falls into the latter, especially given the stigma some people have with CP purchases

>You can already give stuff to anyone you meet

For the record though I personally am not going to argue with you about this.

In summation, I too say keep the House. But have it so it naturally attracts tenants rather than carts them from setting to setting.

It's still too meta. You're intruding on how other people build and balance their jumps and nudging people toward a jump build order.

If you want to say that they have a passive "better at learning skills of XYZ type" then that's fine. But playing with CP in other peoples jumps is sketchy.

Then give them a reward that isn't this. Hell, even that shitty Light of Terra managed to do it. Make them an awesome companion to take without giving free imports and entire perk lines. Jumpchain isn't a game of being the most popular jump maker and this jump you've made is already ridiculously powerful. There's no need to make every single option an absolute must have and in fact it just makes the jump look more like a broken power grab.

>Still has CP cost for Drop In
>Still has ridiculous CP trade perk. Why yes, my 1000cp of perks from Cooking Show Jump are worth a 3 and a bit times increase in power and ability growth on that Worm power I paid 200cp to select! And that's with a conservative estimate from the two price/boost samples given; if we say that the cost modifier is equal to growth rate+1, that'd be a 4 times multiplier.
>Still has purchaseable property allowing transferring large numbers of people between jumps (the apartment not even having a limit to number or abilities of those transferred)
>Still has companions that can fiddle with import rules in other jumps, get free cp, get perks they may not be supposed to be able to access, etc
Really. Last jump you made, you were trying to actively block companions from being imported with powers without paying a cp tax, gave them a tiny cp budget, etc. This jump, you want to make companions that would override that, and do so for every other jump that's tried to do similar, blocked a specific origin or perks for companions, etc? Do you just not think about consequences, or do you have absolutely no respect for the most basic rule of Jumpchain, "don't fuck with other people's jumps without very, very good reason and threadwide approval"?

I can agree with you on this, though.

You never get to pick tennants. The best you can do is keep kicking out old ones (though you can't get another one until the next jump) and hoping for the best, but the tenants will always be random people hiding from reality.

As for why not make the ability a boost... it's an 800 Capstone... in a fairly powerful jump.

>Getting a Reward Companion that has no special value aside from being a Companion fails to reward. It's not impress, it's not worth taking what would otherwise be a fairly major Drawback with a Fail State.
Then give them some other benefit that /isn't/ a 'fuck you' to everyone else making jumps.

Seconding this guy.

>Kanons should change MGS companion stuff
This. Seriously, did he just sneak this by or something? This isn't in the copy I had either so it must've been updated later on. Kanons is still around isn't he? I swear he posted only a few threads ago

Final Form lets you combine physical abilities of alt-forms without combining the physical appearance, right?

I want to direct you to Dirge's jumps, which do in fact offer reward companions from scenarios who do NOT get a CP budget in future jumps, and who are often also considered staggeringly powerful in their setting.

I think this principle completely applies here; I mean for goodness sake, it's THE BEAST and SING. Almost nobody even TOUCHES those guys when they fight seriously. They're the two most powerful dudes in the entire movie, how is that not a reward?

Also I suppose if I were some sort of pansy I'd say friendship with someone can have inherent value beside what superpowers they own but that would be ridiculous amirite?

>You can bring along up to 72 individuals with you from jump to jump, as long as they are willing
Your own jump contradicts you. Maybe try fixing that first.

Also- why the hell is this jump so powerful? It's filled with fiat multipliers, some of the most broken perks I've ever seen and things that break JC mechanics. It's like one of the worse SB jumps rather then something from here.

As I see it, there's still precident. I think they're a really good addition to the jumpchain experience and would like to see more people use them, which is why I coined a term to refer to them "Challenge Companions"

>Final Form lets you combine physical abilities of alt-forms without combining the physical appearance, right?
Eh, the way I read it it turns you into an amalgamation of everything you dump into it. It's easy enough to fix with shapeshifting, though, and I may be reading it wrong anyway.

Also shit, mean to reply to you not him and fuuuuuuuck the post timer isn't gonna let me reply before this mistake is made.

Fuck you post timer.

And yet all but a single person, one who can't put up anything even close to a good argument, says otherwise and people are even calling for the precedent you've used to be changed. Is this maaaaybe a hint you might not be right here?

It's a bad idea to use very divisive things as precedent. You're just setting yourself and the thread up for tons of salt.

Then I don't think there's much more to be said. You and I clearly have extremely different ideas on what contributes to the Jumpchain experience and what detracts from it in the long run.

I'd also like to strongly recommend, at this junction, removing all flat multipliers that aren't a canonical part of the martial arts style. Always found them to be lazy and arbitrary in every bad way-not just too powerful or too weak, but just flat out not representative of a setting.

I'm not going to excuse the multipliers and I've opposed the JC mechanic breaks from the start but I believe some of the perks are SJ's attempt to expand on a movie by incorporating wuxia lore. Which leans towards feats like this.

If one of those forms has the ability to assume a human form, would that human form have the amalgamation of appearance, do you think?

Specifically, of thinking of Dragonoid from Overlord.

I'll try and rewrite Ascetic Lifestyle... somehow.
I will nerf the beast to 300 for a single perk and 500 max. And will nerfing Sing to the first 3 Drop-In perks work (with a drop-in Discount, that usually maxes out at about 300-400 CP)

Seconded or thirded or whatever. If we say it shouldn't be in this jump we should be consistent. ALl the same arguments apply to Metal Gear too.

But...isn't Wuxia something that varies massively in power level? Like anything from normal kung fu movies to DBZ tier shit? Isn't that a really fucking stupid idea to do to make stuff up for a jump?

As a general rule, things which enable you to metagame the whole thing by bypassing the opportunity cost of comapnions limits are considered to detract from "the jumpchain experience" by cheapening the value of choices for future jumps as well as incentivising jumps being taken in a certain order.

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots?

I can't tell if this is just because we have an influx of shitposters recently, but seriously, since when has the complaint of 'we shitstormed over it and bullied jumpmakers into doing this before, so you should do it or else' become valid?

It's not valid. That's why we've got less jumps being made these days than we used to. It used to be we'd have a couple new jumps made every thread, or even just one per thread, but now it's one every five or ten threads.

No, that's not good enough. LISTEN to what people are saying. You have near 100% opposition to the fact that they are included AT ALL, not just included at their current level. You are also now the only one arguing for it to be included.

Tell us why we should have companions that get perks and cp for free in future jumps. Don't use precedent, we've already got several people including myself calling for what precedent there is to be changed. Justify it on it's own merits.

Does the argument of "stop trying to fucking throw in options that directly interfere with the CP structure of other (people's) jumps" work better for you?

well that also has to do with people having less to choose from since a lot of IPs have already been done.

Good man.

Honestly I'd prefer if you not let Sing and the Beast have perks at all; like I said they're the strongest guys in the setting! They don't need perks to stand on their own!

I assumed since one of the most powerful attacks in the movie just smashed an apartment building and helped Sing survive a miles-high fall from the atmosphere other feats would be scaled to that approximate level rather than let you pull a Sun Wukong.

SJ doesn't seem to have a note about this though.

We only ever had THAT speed at the very start, when the threads were way too fast and the jumps were generally terrible with no quality control.

Seems more and more that he's just trying to put in as much power as possible then if there's no actual justification for a lot of this.

Um, dude-I think he's criticising the people who ARE arguing for it. 9-5 for example was one where people shouted Doom down from removing the CP gaining companions remember?

I'm not addressing that argument. I'm specifically calling out the asshole who used the fact that they bullied other jumpmakers into changing their jumps as valid basis for why every instance of it should be changed as well.

Yes, because there are definitely no thousands upon thousands of games, movies, RPGs, anime, etc, that people can choose from to make new jumps. We've definitely exhausted every popular IP that anyone has ever liked.

I don't think that's what's happening because no one but SJ-chan is arguing for it.

SJ, note that the MGS jump on the drive (dated Mar 29) has what you're calling Challenge Companions as a Scenario Reward, and they get _considerably_ less benefit - Snake and Boss can only import themselves into any background worth less than 200cp and get associated freebies, and they _don't_ get actual CP to spend.

That's a _hell of a lot less_ than what your jump is giving.

Obviously there's options, but the more obscure something is the less likely someone finds it and makes a jump out of it, Traveler's Gate is a fine example of this, before I decided to do it no one here seems to have even HEARD of it.

Were you around for The Tree of Life? SJ had a...rough start because they tried to introduce the idea of a companion housing supplement. I've just come to accept SJ has...novel ideas for what jumps should be like. Things more or less worked out eventually in LesMis jump, for example but obviously are currently going down the shitter for this one.

I shut up about it because the shitposters were yelling way to loudly to actually be heard.

Wait, this is the person who did those? Now it all makes sense.

Don't want to sound like a broken record but again-please consider removing the noncanon multipliers as per and replacing them with qualitative descriptions.

>Ascetic Lifestyle
Maybe something like "you bring your talents down to a level no greater than peak human, with one exception: the power you wish to train. If you maintain you asceticism, that power has its potential growth greatly enhanced."

>House of 72 Tenants
I would feel much better about it if the tenants had an explicit power cap of some kind. Like, they're always people without exceptional talents or something regardless of how much you train or enhance them.
Saying "they're always random people, you have no control over who shows up" doesn't really work when a jumper can just give anyone that does show up a shot of Imaginos nanites and a cauldron vial and ten subjective years of perk-enhanced military training in an afternoon.
Yes, you can do that to the ordinary folks in any jump, but they won't follow you between jumps.

I suspect the issue there was the cp-gaining companion got into the final version of the jump and some people wanted it out, and others didn't want to have to re-do their builds.