Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

So what are the odds that we'll get another troll patch in Legion? We did wreck a lot of zandalari in MoP, but it's been a while so they might've bounced back from the losses.

And is Zandalar's position here at all accurate?

To my knowledge the trolls aren't much interested in the Legion or the Old Gods, they're more a Wild God/Titan thing and I cna't see those being in Legion all that much.

>Wild God
Emerald Dream is all kinds of fucked up in Legion. The Nightmare is flaring up something fierce. Ysera gets corrupted and Ursoc is a boss, too.

And Drakuru proves that trolls are not, as a rule, dedicated to Loa.

The worst part is that both storylines would have almost certainly been resolved in the cancelled Abyssal maw raid. I mean, they did everything but flat out say N'zoth was located under Vashj'ir.

>So what are the odds that we'll get another troll patch in Legion?
death be a doorway, and time a window. I'll be back! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

They'll be back when Azshara shows up.

The rest of Gun'Drak, Azjol Nerub, and Grim Batol are the real shames.

Nerubians could have been so good.
Subterranean zone...

Sadly they wont risk anything since Vashjir wasnt well recieved

Yeah. I would have liked to see a Gun Drak raid. If only to keep up the tradition. Azjol Nerub was a real shame too.

Not sure what was supposed to happen to Grim Batol. Was it originally meant to be a raid?

Project Titan drew so much away from Wrath and Cata. The insult to this injury is that Titan went nowhere and was salvaged into something else.

Yes. Altough at least the two dungeons we did get were really good.

Yep. And to make matters even worse, the massive staff re-shuffling following Titan's cancellation completely wrecked WoD.

At least Overwatch is fun.

I did like how the dungeons in Wrath foreshadowed Cata
>Twilight's Hammer cultists fucking around in Ahn'haket
>all the dragon egg drama culminating in you fighting Halion and discovering the twilight dragons

So you're telling me that as of now, Titan's failure negatively affected half of WoW's expansions in some form? Christ, that sounds like it would've killed any company except Blizzard.

Well Ruby Sanctum was literally just a filler raid to get people interested for Cata.

Pretty much, yeah. WoD probally got it the worst too. The intended story-line was changed mid expansion because they had to cancel the shattrath raid, which would have presumably ended the whole legion invasion sub plot. Leaving the Iron horde and Grom as the main villain.

At least Mop was mostly unaffected. presumably because that team actualy knew what they could and could not do.

Was there ever actually an event where you saw Socrethar in Shattrath? He talks about it in HFC but I never even went to shatt beyond the quest with Blackhand and the boats.

It's not filler if it contributes to the story.

I think he means raid progression-wise.

one of the garrison campaign quests sends you to Shattrath where you and Liadrin kill Socrethar

Oh, okay, that makes more sense.

I mean is there a reason that he says "You could not stop me in Shattrath. You will not end me here fools."

When I never even saw him in shattrath.

Ah, that makes sense I guess. I only ever got through half of those before losing interest in the garrison.

Yeah, WoD got hit by a double-whammy. Not only did the small developer team caused by a lot for former WoW devs being shuffled to Titan mean that a lot of content that had been intented to be included at launched had to be added later or removed entirely (Tanaan Jungle was originally going to be availeable at launch, and there was an entire additional zone and at least one raid that never materialized), but once Titan got canceled and the people moved back to WoW, they decided that instead of trying to integrate all the people to the existing project, they'd just wrap it up quickly and start working on the next expansion (which is why we get Gul'dan literally hijacking the plot, and spent the last year doing the same damn raid).

At least Legion will be the first expansion in a long time that doesn't suffer from massively downsized devteam. I think they actually got more people working on it than any of the previous expansions.

>I mean is there a reason that he says "You could not stop me in Shattrath. You will not end me here fools."
>When I never even saw him in shattrath.
because you were supposed to have seen him in Shattrath. Same reason Gorefiend is there even if you never ran Auchindoun or did the garrison campaign quests for it, and Teron Gorefiend is still in BT if you don't do the quests to summon him

Wait. Why would you neglect so an extremely successful game? Are they stupid?

Kotick just wants the shekkels

Yep. Yet another reason why i might give it a shot.

I do wonder though what the original plan for WoD was. Considering how a statement claimed Grom was supposed to be the final boss. I imagine the Shattrath raid would have ended with you killing Gul Dan and stopping the legion invasion. With Hellfire citadel being the final battle against the iron horde.

Then again, the game was really building up Gul Dan as the biggest threat even before Hellfire Citadel. He probally had more screen time than Grom. And assuming they had already planned Legion. It would actually make sense for the legion to hi-jack the plot.

It's a shame really. I know i'm in the minority for this. But i did actually really like the premise of WoD. Its a shame the team pretty much decided to burn it and move on instead of actually finishing it like they planned.

the sad thing is that they still probably made a profit off it since the remains were turned into Overwatch

I feel like he was played up as someone Grom had no issue ignoring before this cutscene.

This is just pure guesswork. But i sort of get the feeling they wanted Titan to "replace" World of Warcraft. Probably because they felt the game was getting too old, and/or they were interested in doing warcraft 4.

Again, this is just speculation. But i get the feeling Legion is going to be the final Wow expansion. A big status quo changing event to pave the way for either Warcraft 4 or Wow 2: This time its personal.

Kul Tiras was shifted out to sea during the Cataclysm. I wonder if that will be relevant to the Broken Isles.

World of Warcraft: The Alternate Universe, where the orcs never invaded azeroth.

It could be a good and more to-day mmorpg if they can stay with the good things, dont do the same mistakes and add something different to all those mmo out there

Let's say that my sales teams says that I am statistically most likely to sell my product to the tune of 2 million units at 60 dollars. That 2 million number is not likely to change. So from there, for me to maximize my profit I just need to figure out how little budget I can put in, while still being able to reach that estimated amount of units sold.

It's better for profits to spend as little as possible while trying to sell as much as possible.

Oh you Kotick! You did it again!

True. And Gul Dan did seem to spend a large amount of his screen time getting kicked around.

Then again Grom Isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. And Khadgar was completely certain Gul Dan was the biggest threat on alt-dreanor.

I don't like it myself, but sadly that is the way of the world. Feels bad man.

Would be cool if Kul Tiras' navy showed up at some point. Maybe a quest chain related to Jaina's history.

I don't recall any implicaitons that Grom was originally intended to be the final boss. I seem to remember it always being Archimonde.

And the things they said at the BlizzCons preceeding Legion mentioned that Legion was already planned. They said that they had the storylines for the next three expansions outlined, which is why WoD's ending directly leads into Legion, and presumably Legion will do the same for the expansion after it.

Yeah, especially considering she's now Lady Admiral of Kul Tiras by right of succession.

Come to think of it, with Jaina being booted from head of the Kirin Tor, now would be the perfect time for her to finally take the throne of Kul Tiras.

I just want to know if the people of Kul Tiras will take her, considering she basically stood by and let orcs kill her father and their king. Though given her more hostile disposition now, they might take her back.

Grom isn't stupid, considering his main timeline self managed to prevent himself and his clan from falling into lethargy and Alliance capture for nearly twenty years. Though I guess you can chop it up to Grom wising up a bit after watching the last bits of the Horde fall apart when Ner'zhul abandoned them.

>there will never be an AU where Grom goes south to find the Blackrock instead of wandering around Lordaeron

>an AU where Grom makes a gutsy last stand at Blackrock against the Legion since he wasn't there to guide Thrall to the Frostwolves.

Sounds GAR as fuck if you ask me.

Is there anyone who could have saved Neltharion from the Old Gods if they knew what was happening?

his reward for betraying the other Aspects was getting to keep Alexstrazsa and Ysera alive as sex slaves when the Old Gods won. is there someone who could have saved anyone from that?

Why would the Old Gods hold up their end of the bargain? They have no actual reason to keep their word, and every reason to kill him once they're free.

You'd think he would have thought of that.

>Why would the Old Gods hold up their end of the bargain?
they probably wouldn't, but there's no way to prove that to him unless you could bring him to the End Times

And Nozdormu didn't do that why? He easily could have, once he realized what was happening.

Wait, I literally just remembered the exact reason and I feel dumb now.

I hate time travel laws.

Nozdormu was kept busy during the War of the Ancients because the Old Gods were fucking with the timeways.

Daily reminder that the Burning Legion wouldn't exist if not for the Old Gods.

REMOVE TENTACLE FROM THE PREMISES

That looks pretty good. What's the scale for this map though? Hopefully not a days walk between Booty Bay and Stormwind.

I'd at least want it to be the size of Europe.

Yeah, but the lore has only a handful of goodpoints and the rest sucks.

So, Legion gave the Naga these freaky ape-like brutes with four legs, but no fucking Coatl or Snapdragons?

What the fuck Blizzard?
The walk depends on how many times you get ganked in Stranglethorn.

(Never rolling on a PissVsPiss server ever again)

>Warcraft
>lore

Are you really telling me you think Velen is such a dick he'd make an old man (Well, young to a Draenei but old for a human) stand?

That's a pretty fucked up idea.

Let's not forget the premise being retarded. Who thought it was a good idea basing an expansion around time travel? I feel like I'm in a minority, but no matter how good the actual gameplay or story might be, it's too difficult to get into it with that kind of premise. To me WoD is the perfect example of a big problem Blizzard has - chucking in stuff they think is cool without considering the consequences.

The whole time travel thing raises a lot of questions that shouldn't have been raised. Similarly I dislike the technology in the setting. You can't have fucking helicopters and machine guns in the same setting as dudes in sword and armour. It just does not work. The whole setting breaks down as soon as you think about it too hard.

For me, the introduction of spaceships in TBC was the big red warning flag. I thought I was playing a fantasy game. Sci-fi wasn't what I signed up for. Blizzard just does not seem to know what they want WoW to be, or they just don't care and throw in whatever shit they feel is cool and try to then retroactively fit it into the setting.

I dunno why, but I find that kinda cute. Ugly cute, like a pug or gorilla.

I want to tame one and teach it to fetch thrown femurs.

It doens't look exactly like that. Just google Naga brute I don't really want to bother finding my screenshot.

Velen's being courteous because he knows he'll out live Anduin.

After googling, I no longer want one.

Blizzard wanted orcs, we got orcs. I mean, they're just so EPIC! Who cares about time travel/world inconsistencies when we witness the rize of a proud and nobel people? Grommash did nothing wrong!

>Similarly I dislike the technology in the setting. You can't have fucking helicopters and machine guns in the same setting as dudes in sword and armour.
It's a setting where Grom killed Mannoroth by getting REALLY pissed off and hitting him with an axe.

It's a setting where a guy with a shield and some priests could stand toe to toe with the strongest fire elemental around.

It's a setting where Muradin walked off a case of near death and the only lasting consequence of the ordeal is having to explain to everyone that he didn't actually die.

It most certainly DOES work that way, if you tone down your MUH REALISM and accept that the setting is crawling with bloody super heroes.

All I want from time travel is:

Old content that got mutilated.

Content from way back in other times that we couldn't see otherwise.(How CoT originally was)

And a real Nozdormu raid where timelines go fucking crazy. The 5man was shite.

Pictured: Anduin's age when the second tier raid is finally over.

(If WoD is anything to go by)

It might've still ended with Gul'dan/Archie as the final boss to set up Legion, but they originally planned Tanaan and Hellfire Citadel to be Iron Horde themed, with HFC having all the remaining Iron Horde warlods as bosses, and Grom as the last boss.

Probably after you'd have dismantled the Iron Horde, Gul'dan and the Shadow Council would summon Archimonde in Shattarath or something, and the final raid would be stopping them. However, cutting the expansion short meant they had to combine the HFC raid and the Gul'dan/Legion subplot together, resulting in a rather rushed and unsatisfactory ending (for one, everybody just kind of forgets all the horrible things Grom did cause he helped them kill some demons, and now the orcs are draenei are apparently friends).

Hum. In that case maybe Shattrath was supposed to originally be the final raid. With Hellfire Citadel being the final battle against the Iron horde.

I really hope we get the post mortem on WoD someday. Or even better, a post-mortem on Titan, and what effects it had on other blizzard games.

Even as we get into what could potentially be the LAST world of warcraft expansion two things still plague my mind to this day:

-What do you think is going on in Outland right now?

-What happened with Kul'tiras?

>-What do you think is going on in Outland right now?
Remaining orcs, draenei, broken and arakkoa enjoying some peace in between nervously eyeing the edge of oblivion and wondering if the land is a little smaller than it was yesterday.
>-What happened with Kul'tiras?
Last we heard it got dragged out to sea during the Cataclysm. But they're a naval power, so they're probably fishing for sustenance while sending out ships to chart where the fuck they are.

Oh, and the ogres in Ogri'la are probably pretty content, too.

Presumably a naval power would know to look up if they wanted to chart their position.

>-What do you think is going on in Outland right now?
I could ask the same thing about Northrend frankly. Its especially odd considering how "resources are dwindling" was such a important plot point in MoP.

I imagine the remaining Draenei and Orcs are trying to make the place somewhat livable now that the legion and Illidan have both been kicked off the place.

>What happened with Kul'tiras?

They're probally doing fine. According to the official wiki they are still a part of the alliance. So i imagine they might be Azeroth's main source of boats.

That would mean Blizzard would admid thed did something wrong, and their flagship game isn't perfect.

I think getting all rare raid drop mounts from a single visit to their respective bosses is more propable.

It can happen then. Got 3 of them in one week before.

Eh. It could happen one day. Maybe long after wow has finnaly ended. Or perhaps some ex-blizzard employee might go on a huge anonymous rant someday.

I really hope that the second Warcraft Chronicles book can fix WoD by finally clearly explaining what the fuck was meant to happen in Draenor

>last
lolno

Wow is like twelve year old already. There's stuff in the game that was made when the twin towers where still standing.

For fuck's sake. I remember Wrath reviews complaining about how the old game was getting old. And that was 8 freaking years ago.

>There's stuff in the game that was made when the twin towers where still standing.
Your timeline seems to have forgot 3 years.

The game was released in 2004 yes. But it was announced as early as 2 september 2001. Which means its actually plausible that there really is stuff in the game made while the twin towers where still standing.

Watch and weep, my friend

youtube.com/watch?v=teSSu9aHSXc

I loved the concept and look of Vash'ir, but I can see why they're probably not going to do anything like that again. It looked gorgeous, but is probably the single worst zone to play. It's a bitch to navigate, and god help you if you play a pet class since the pet's pathfinding gets all fucked up.

all i hope for legion is for maiev to stay alive. i dont think my heart can take her dying

WoW's development was almost simultaneous with WC3s. I'm pretty sure they use the same mapping engine.

I think you can find some E3 2001 videos showing off Elwynn, Westfall, Duskwood, and STV. The orc and human models were also radically different. Stuff like some of the Defias models (the thin guys), peasants, and the fat town magister model were also from that era.

What do night elves think about Druids from other races?

I don't think they've realized worgen exist yet.

And given that Blizz all but abandoned them after cata besides Genn, they probably won't realize any time soon.

one thing I find interesting about Warcraft is that despite all the times the various races have stopped the world from ending, there's still places where on a local level, the apocalypse has already happened, but there's still people trying to pick up the pieces and hold it together. It's a neat aesthetic

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