Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Generator Blues Edition
Fresh OC straight off the presses Sub-Edition
I really can't think of a summary for this bread.
Red Book Links:
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HHG FAQ - pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
Other official downloads: forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
HH Rules:
Age of Darkness Army List: mediafire.com/download/f0c2pnieoijyrqk/Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List.pdf
Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
30k/40k Rules: mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): kat.cr/usearch/"Forge World" heresy user:epistolary/
30k Black Library: mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
Strawpoll links: strawpoll.me/10558764
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=rdSXXwkuaT0
youtube.com/watch?v=bXi-sydxtVQ
youtube.com/watch?v=DpRUKLKCY-w
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

first for Thousand Sons having the most pimped out 30k/40k catalogue in 2017 (if this actually happens)

Anyone else prefer these colors over the original color scheme?

After another long toil of 30,000 years it has been remade. Probably worse though.

new HH convert here with a question:

what advantage is it top take the medusa phosphex shells? as far as I can see its less strength, same ap and poisoned 3+ is not as good as the str 10 for the regular shells. and the re rolling of poison if you are over strength is close combat only. what am I missing?

It's okay, but that chestpiece is still really dumb and the model for it looks awful.

No, you don't take Phosphex with a Medusa unless you really love Phosphex and not having friends.

I was only talking about the colors user. Don't remind me of the terrible upgrade set.


I like the helmets, at least. They're okay.

No, but I don't dislike them. At the same time there's a lot of variety from person to person, I wouldn't be offended if someone fielded an army with a different metal scheme from my own. We are all ironclad brothers, after all.

No, you're pretty much correct. Phosphex is much more useful on Quad Launchers, but it's also kind of overpowered on Quad Launchers. On Medusas all you're really doing is trading a ton of versatility for slightly better killing potential against infantry but without the strength to ID them, and at significant cost between the upgrade and the HQ tax. It's not worth it at all.

Well, in that case I think they're neat, but I prefer the original. Gunmetal with hazards is too iconic to me.

The helmet for me is awesome enough that the chest piece looks pretty good with it. Especially when you read they're mostly given to the completely green recruits whose loyalties are only to Perturabo.

That's nice, after all, the fragmenting of the EC into warbans would only give the EC the chance to become increasingly diverse and reach extremes not even them ever imagined.

Quite the opposite of the Death Guard, who for centuries even only recruited from Barbarus alone.

However, this is how I think Istvaan V Fulgrim sounded like, especially when he says "Darling" and "Oh yess"

>Darling, I can show you where my love hides
>it’s a new sword
>from the Laerian
>Yeah, I’m dancing with your soul in my sights
>it’s a showdown
>on Istvaan V

youtube.com/watch?v=rdSXXwkuaT0

It is heresy, after all.

Far from it mate, you took the advice perfectly well. This is readable and now very nicely balanced. Good stuff! Imma be rolling

2 - Traitor

11 - Temperate
14 - Lavaland

2 - Gene-Crafted

4 - Matriarch

3 - The Hydra's Bite

15 - The Strength of Monsters

So the Alpha Legion have manipulated a community of highly gene-altered lava-boaters, ruled by a Matriarch, to serve the warmaster, experiencing the blessings of Chaos as even further bouts of Strength. I'm getting a good sense of faction already.

(ps there are still many spelling errors, "Provenace" for instance or baren instead of barren. If english isn't your first language, try running the text through a spell-checker before adding it in)

Well thanks, user.
>spelling errors
>mfw
Wow I'm an idiot. I'll fix them after a few minutes from now. Might roll me up a cult or militia when it's patched up.

Can infantry heavy solar auxilia be good? My local group prefers 30k, but I don't want to buy tanks.

You're welcome user. Stave off death's sweet embrace long enough to enjoy the fruits of victory.

Sure thing, my man.

Phosphex has a special rule that lets you move the template after it has scattered if it would cover more models, and leaves the template behind and that area becomes dangerous terrain

really deadly and really strong vs infantry hoards, but not better then Str 10 barrage. Phosphex canister rapiers on the other hand are very strong

youtube.com/watch?v=bXi-sydxtVQ

Emperor's Children 3rd Company theme.

Thousand Sons theme:

youtube.com/watch?v=DpRUKLKCY-w

Sure, just buy a fuckton of Aegis or make your own, load up on that shit and heavy weapons like rapiers and build a trench network that would make an IF/IW green with envy.

I would give all Aegis an ammo dump instead of a gun, several units rerolling 1s to hit is much better than a gun that works only on fliers/skimmers.

It's a ridiculous number of infantry. You'll wish you had tanks.

In terms for performance, firing hundreds of shots will result in a lot of kills, but your men will also die by the dozens. Not much fun, really - it's an exercise in dice rolling. You literally run out of room to maneuver.

Already got a Wall of Martyrs setup, so I'm set there.

That chest piece is a symbol of the unification, remove the hazard stripes and that would be a sexy legionnaire.

Been wanting to run an outrider heavy list for some reason, anyone have experience with this? Want to know of its viable before I shell out money for the bikes.

Just ran the legion generator, I shit you not this is what happened

>Specialization

Lightning strike
Adept of adversity
aerial assault
soaring interception

>Weakness

Champion Combatants

>Battle scale

Skirmish/general flexible

>Army exclusives

New melee weapon & new consul type

>legion units

Veteran assault squad/Recon squad

>Homeworld

Almost alone/Urban Jungle

>Primarch struggle

Survival/long earned vengeance

>Combat/features

Psychic power/Aerial movement/stealth

>Weakness

Fragile


So, I'm the Raven Guard then?

Looks like the generator wants you to play Raven Guard.

A Psychic Raven Guard/Night Lords Hybrid that dislikes close combat, I guess. Results like this are why I make these sorts of things.

Go White Scars and be a mildly shittier dickbike list.

...

It's almost strictly a fluff option.

There are very specific circumstances where it can be a competitive choice - e.g. a Death Guard The Reaping list where an objective is to precision-dump strategic Dangerous Terrain pie plates everywhere (though they are becoming obsolete at even that job now that Rapiers and even an Achilles can take Phosphex canisters).

It would be much, much better if it was an additional shell type that could be chosen between each time it fires (like the Rapier and Achilles), rather than a strict replacement that's all-or-nothing. Having said that, if you take several Medusas in the artillery formation, you can exchange just one of them to have Phosphex - they all still shoot at the same target, but it lets you get most of the damage plus the dangerous terrain effect. Too bad Knights were FAQ'd to not take dangerous terrain tests...

On the other hand, that'd be great if you could convince everyone to play Zone Mortalis now and again.

Hey Veeky Forums

How exactly does the Brethren of Iron RoW work with the Praevian? The BoI says you can't take more battle-automata than units with the LA rule, but is the Praevian actually giving units the LA rule or just the effects?

As long as you don't choose to gain the alternative Furious Charge, Tank Hunters or Scout special rules instead, they actually gain the Legiones Astartes (whatever Legiones Astartes rule the Praevian has).

However, it's immaterial because the Praevian is itself a "unit with the Legiones Astartes rule" anyway, and the Castellax or Vorax "must be selected as part of the Legion Praevian unit", so they're not a second "unit with the Legion Astartes special rule" - just one in either case.

Huh, thanks.

I really like the idea of Brethren of Iron fluffwise but I'm not quite sure what Legions it works best with, or how to set it up - I'm not too familiar with the Mechanicum stuff. Is the deal that every group of battle-automata needs a character or techmarine with a cortex controller in it?

They need someone with a cortex controller within 12" or they just stand there.

Is that from a model with a CC, or from a unit with something with a CC in it?

It's a singular model and iron warriors have the best access to them. Warsmith, forge lords and tech marines can take them for 15ppm

Word Bearers 2500

HQ-335
175: Zardu Layak
160: Legion Centurion-Chaplain, Artificer Armour, Retractor Field, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Burning Lore

ELITES-635
120: Apothecary x3, one has an Augury Scanner x1, one have a Jump Pack and Power Weapon - Sword
395 Gal Vorbak x10 (+5), Power Mace 1x, Power Axe x1, Martyr with Artificer Armour and Power Fist
120: Legion Rapier Weapons Battery x2, Quad Mortar x2 (Frag Shells)

TROOPS-848
235: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), Sergeant with Power Axe
235: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), Sergeant with Power Axe
378: Legion Assault Squad 20x (+10), 4x Power Weapon, Sergeant with Power Fist, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs and Combat Shield

FAST ATTACK-86
86: Legion Javelin x1, Twin-Linked Lascannons x1, Multi-Melta x1, Hunter Killer Missile x2, Searchlight

HEAVY SUPPORT-595
205: Legion Sicaran Battle Tank, Sponson Lascannons
155: Legion Artillery - Medusa
235: Kharybdis Assault Claw
-2499-

Zardu and an Apoth sit in the back and hold an objective while summoning Daemons
Chaplain and Jump Pack Apoth join Assault Squad and try for a Turn 2 Assault. The addition of fear on the Chaplain is really nice.
Other Apoth joins the other tactical, they are likely more mid-field objective takers. Nothing flashy with them.
Gal Vorbak come in via the Kharybdis, they rip and tear everything without a 2+sv apart.
Rapiers w/ Quad Guns are for taking out enemy heavy weapon squads and other larger blob units
Javelin is much better with the recent update, I will use him to tank hunt Side/Rear Armour. BS5 with Straffing Run is great, and he packs lots of S8/S9.
Sicaran is for anti-tank as well, and can double as AA if needed.
Medusa is for handling blobs and Deathstars, also its a sexy model.

Rip it apart! I realize Primarchs or Knights will be hard to deal with.
I could split the Gal Vorbak into 2x 5man units, and put them both in Anvillus Dreadclaws, but i'd have to lose a Quad Mortar to make that work for pts reasons.

Ok. I guess I'd just have to test how many work. Any other strategic agreements around here what Legions are good for running with the automaton?

in terms of generic robots everyone can use them equally well

In terms of Praevians:

>RG for infiltrating robots

>SoH for extra attacks and +1BS

>IH for toughest robots of all time

>Salamanders for duel wielding +1 strength flamers

>DG for duel wielding shredding chem flamers, rad grenades, and 4+++ vs poison and character with ap 2 at initiative

>WS if you can exploit their movement for shooting/assault rerolls and character with ap 2 at initiative

>UM for rerolling shooting wounds, rerolling charge distances and a character with ap 2 at initiative

>WE with Vorax that gain rage and rerolls to wound on the charge

>IW for giving you the choice of Furious charge, scout, or tankhunters

>IW for giving you the choice of Furious charge, scout, or tankhunters
No, all Praevians can choose to give automatas those rules. IW give nothing.

>the joke
>your head

Wait, what?


Oh... Usually I get these ones. Dang it.

2 squads of Gal Vorbak in Dreadclaws in 700pts, compared to the 630 you have now, you'd have to scrap a Quad Mortar and a Power Weapon (not the Melta Bombs) to make that work.
It also means due to Drop Pod Assault, that 1 would come in Turn 1 and the other Turn 2. So if facing only 1 AA unit, that could be really bad for you.
1 Quad Mortar is honestly likely enough in here.
I've never seen anyone use a Javelin, and while the points reduction helped, I'm still skeptical because AV11 in 30k is like AV10 in 40k, it's not tough enough.
For your Legion Tacticals, you are aware that by adding a PW, that means you lose the Bolter since you lack a CCW. So it drops your shots down a smidge, nothing big, just saying. Fists are much better, but I see you are using Axes for points reasons. I'd almost recommend since they lack +1CCW just having the units bare, or having 1 run a Fist and then add a Dozer Blade to your Sicaran.

Looks neat, never played against Word Bearers though.

No, every unit doesn't need its own, but if they're going to be controlled properly, they need to be in-range of one during the game.

For small games, you can easily hit 1,000 to 1,500 points just by buying your favorite HQ, two Praevians and their units of automata, plus two minimum troops and a bit of wargear. Or stretch to three Praevians and no other HQs, or make the first HQ someone with Master of the Legion so you only need two 5-man squads of veterans as compulsory troops, etc.

It's also handy as an allied detachment, where a mandatory Forge Lord with a Praevian plus his attendant automata can take a unit of compulsory troops (e.g. 10 taticals) and, for this, they then they get to use their single remaining Troops, Elite, and Fast Attack slots for automata.

For larger games, it's much more versatile when used by the Iron Warriors because of their ability to gain extra Cortex Controllers on characters without having to take Forge Lords/Praevians, so they don't need to buy Techmarines (to get more Cortex Controllers) and can therefore buy more Domitar. Iron Hands can also do so to a limited extent, but need to buy certain special characters.

Biggest list possibly is probably Iron Warriros:
Praetor Warsmith+Cortex Controller
Praevian+unit of Castellax/Vorax
Praevian+unit of Castellax/Vorax
3x Domitar
1x Techmarine+Cortex Controller
4x Tacticals/Breachers
2x Castellax
3x Vorax
3x Heavy Support Squads/Tyran Siege Terminators

Of course, that has no tanks and puts you squarely in the Apocalypse points bracket, where you wouldn't even need a Rite of War to take the automata.

Most of the limitations of this detachment are probably intended to stop it being abused too badly when using alternative Force Org charts (like Zone Mortalis), so don't stress to hard about them.

Oh yeah, and the Iron Warriros list example could also include Perturabo with an Iron Circle, letting you take another Domitar instead of the Techmarine, and could take Iron Havoks in Heavy Support in place of the regular Heavy Support Squads or Tyrant Siege Termiantors.

Upon thinking about, this is probably the biggest possible automata list:
LoW: Perturbo+Iron Circle
HQ: Praevian+unit of Castellax/Vorax
HQ: Praevian+unit of Castellax/Vorax
HQ: Praevian+unit of Castellax/Vorax
4x Domitar/Iron Circle
5x Tacticals/Breachers
1x Castellax
3x Vorax
3x Iron Havoks/Tyran Siege Terminators

The Iron Circle attending Perturabo and the automata which accompany the Praevian are still "Battle-automata maniples" so still count towards the 1:1 automata-nonautomata ratio limit.

>For small games, you can easily hit 1,000 to 1,500 points just by buying your favorite HQ, two Praevians and their units of automata, plus two minimum troops and a bit of wargear. Or stretch to three Praevians and no other HQs, or make the first HQ someone with Master of the Legion so you only need two 5-man squads of veterans as compulsory troops, etc.
For clarity, I meant that you could do this to get two automata units without even needing the Bretheren of Iron rule, and the guy with Master of the Legion could be taken to get Pride of the Legion so that smaller veterans could be the compulsory troops.

>Work 7 days in a row
>Finally have today off
>Plan to play and work on a zm board
>Wake up at 3am shaking violently woth the worst fever in my life

I cant even paint

No user kun :c
The Iron Warriors support you. Bitterness wiffin, bitterness wiffout

>tfw too lazy to paint even if I'm not sick

...

tried to image search this to figure out who the grill is. google says it's water.

I think it's some pigeon loving Slav.

It's that pigeon girl

I've always thought it would be swag to run monster killing robo-knights of justice with Dark Angels Praevians, but I can't see that being much use in 30k sadly.

And I don't know if any of the Dark Angel's gear even can go on their robots.

So now that assault squads are the best troop choice, should I convert mk3 marines to assault marines (I'm not a fan of mk2) or go with mk4 assault marines for ease?

I'm playing death guard btw, and I have all my veteran tactical squads In mk3, my heavy support in mk3 and mk4, and my tactical support and regular tactical squads in Betrayal at Calth mk4

>So now that assault squads are the best troop choice
Tacs and breachers still look cooler. That's the only thing that counts.

They really fucked up the point cost.

Making Tact's almost useless
Higher prices for bitchen breachers

Hell of an update

Boarding shields on Assault Marines??? Can they take bolters?

Can't do that, Praevian can't be a compulsory HQ regardless of whether you have a Primarch or not. Gotta take an HQ tax in one form or another.

Tacs had their price lowered as well and Fury of the Legion is still great if you can position them to get it off. They're not bad. Assault Marines are great, but I don't think it shifted the meta from always tacticals to always jumpers. They're both viable choices now.

Breachers still seem competitive with the assault squads for what they offer.

Eh, in a full size game? Probably not. But they basically buffed for ZM and that's what they're primarily for anyway. Most people seem to forget that. There's units in this game that are intended for ZM and so of course they look off balanced when you forget about it or don't play it.

Tacticals it is for my IW's, cheaper. I want more points for my robits.

What other units are meant for ZM?

Genestealers.

Well, personally I think Myrmidon Secutors are very much a ZM unit since they're too slow and not powerful enough for an open battle. In ZM, though, the units that would compete with them (Castellax, Domitar, Vorax) can't really be taken in quantity or maneuver through the tight spaces well enough to be as useful. Also, Secutors are pretty short ranged with all their options.

Mass flamer units are also going to be way, WAY better in ZM. Templates and blasts get shred in ZM, and the close confines of a ZM board make getting them into firing range a lot more viable. That goes for Tactical Support Squads obviously, but other units that can bring a lot of templates like HHS squads with heavy flamers, Solar Auxilia Support Sections, Pyroclasts, Secutors, Destructors, etc. are going to shine a lot more in the ZM.

Teminators in general are also, at least in fluff, actually designed for this kind of job. Cataphractii are a little awkward to get around since they're both slow and typically lack range (which is why they usually go in transports), but Tartaros are quite adept and kicking ass in ZM games. They both deep strike with teleportation, though, and since that's the only way you're allowed to DS in ZM it can make them very powerful for exploiting a flank or getting deep into the board and disrupting the enemy plan.

Stone Gauntlet in general is pretty clearly designed with ZM in mind, which makes sense because boarding actions are what the IF are emphasized doing in book 3 (Battle of Phall in particular).

Basically, just look in the books and see how many units you find that seem a little awkward to get into position in a normal game even with a transport, or that seem prohibitively expensive if you take them en masse with a transport - then consider what a 10-15 model version of that unit in a defensive position in ZM might look like.

Would-be SoH player here. What HS choice will complement Jump-pack Reavers centered army list? How about Sniper Vets centered one>

Not boarding shields, only combat shields.

And no, they can't take bolters.

I like this one more, not sure if you were the poster in last thread w/ 3 Drop Pods and 3 Gal Vorbak squads.
As said, not sure if 2 Legion Tacticals are needed, and if you should even bother with upgrades.
Why not lose a Quad Mortar, Javelin, and a Tactical and toss in some Daemon Allies?
A Herald of Tzeentch, squad of Horrors and a Deamon Prince would be really cool in here.

Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that.

I think that the new update's going to shift the meta from "most of the time veterans and sometimes tacticals" to "most of the time veterans and sometimes assault marines".

At least until the new plastic box comes out.

I don't know, I'd recommend doing that anyways, that sounds kind of awesome.

Is there a lore reason for why DA Battle Automata are good at killing other battle automata? Or is monster killing just a general DA thing?

Hey guys. I'm pretty new to 30k. I bought two BAC boxes and a few Imperial Fist units, enough to run a 2k list. I run footslogging tac blobs and templars to take advantage of that sweet BS5 bolter action. My friend who got me into 30k and basically my only opponent tables me turn 2-3 pretty much every game. I don't want to offend him by sounding like a dick but I think his list is kind of hard. I wanted to ask you guys. Is this a hard list to face at 2k?

>Delegatus running Ironfire

>Master of Signal

>Siege Breaker

>2 20-man tac blobs with nuncio voxes and sergeants with artificer

>2 3-battery quad launcher units with shatter shells

>2 3-battery quad launcher units with phosphex canisters

>3 Medusas

>2 Scorpius

>Aegis with ammo dump

Again, he beats me pretty bad consistently but I don't want to have any confrontation or be rude to him about it. What should I say?

They've got to silence anyone who boops the wrong way about their loyalty. After all, they're totally not heretical beeps, now are they?

Monster killing is a DA thing, Calaban was full of ye old monsters like dragons and other beasties.

Warp beasts.

I started taking my models off the table in my mind while reading that list.

It sounds like a fucking nightmare to play against, especially when footslogging.

from one templar kid to another...buy the imperial knight double kit and level the playing field. you're gonna keep getting stomped so long as his entire army list is made to fuck yours.

The tech marines taught them the Calibanian art of monster hunting.
Also this since it amuses me.

That's a pretty brutal list and the only way you're going to beat it is by not footslogging. IW artillery is like the hard counter to foot slogging and infiltrating starter lists. Gotta get some transport tanks or drop pods. If you can close range to his guns without losing too many guys then you can start murdering them in assault, which is where IW start to fall apart.

It's kind of like playing against a Tau or IG gunline; you're going to have a rough time getting to the line, but as soon as you do, their entire army falls apart.

AV14 and Flare shields also tend to be the bane of IW players since they run lots of S7 and S8 weapons that are good against light and medium army and their only S10 weapons are typically Medusae, which get busted down to S8 by a flare shield since they're blast. Land Raiders and Spartans are your friend.

Knights are also a great way to fuck with an IW gunline as there's not a lot they're going to have that can challenge the front arc (same as a LR, really) and they lack the mobility to outflank it.

So your friend is lured you into investing money into a game so he could bring out his ultra IW artillery spam.

>Yeah man totally get into 30k, you like imperial fists? Awesome, you want them to be marching all proud like? Righteous, youll have a great time playing against me!

>Secretly is getting off on having lured you into being an Imperial fist, who foot slogs and is completely new. Muh IW's reign supreme.

>Phosphex against footslogging list
That's not very nice, though it is effective.

>Shatter Shells
If he's placing Ironfire Markers from shatter shells, he's breaking the rules, as Shatter Shells do not have the Barrage rule.

>3 Medusas
Yeah, he's list-tailoring. All those pie plated and phosphex against footsloggers just isn't right.

And I just noticed how many thudd guns he's using. Wow. Yeah, he's being a douche.

Trying to out-WAAC a WAACfag is a fucking terrible idea. You'll have a passive-aggressive arms race, buying models that you don't actually want until one person realizes how stupid this shit is and stops playing altogether.

Just talk to your opponent(s), tell them that you're not having very much fun and that you'd like to play more casually. Don't impose any limitations on them, don't nitpick their choices, just tell them to bring it down a notch when facing you and encourage them to experiment with non-conventional lists.

Thank you so much guys. Would it be better to confront him irl and ask him why he's being a dick or for me to secretly buy and paint a whole new army designed to fuck his butt and bring it?

Time to bring out the big guns battle brother, do not trust Iron Warrior scum for they know no honor so call in reinforcements in the form of 3 fucking knights to rape his ass so hard he'll be shitting aquilas for a week.

Also, it's worth adding that while the idea of doing the whole 20-man foot slogging thing sounds appealing coming into 30k it really is a trap build. Half the shit in Horus Heresy is tailor made to blow up large blobs of power armour specifically because it is terrifying if no such options exist. The result is that if you depend on it too hard you end up getting hard countered.

You can try to do some foot slogging if you want, but you need to come up with a plan for how they're going to survive. Outflankers, deep strikes, terrain, fortifications, something. You need to either disrupt their gunline before it can do too much damage or protect yourself from it long enough to damage or engage it. Ultimately the best answer is the simplest - putting your guys inside metal boxes or drop pods so that they live long enough to get across the board and actually shoot/assault something.

Basically, as is pointing out you're playing completely into your opponent's hands. Now, it is a bit of a dick thing that he's not changing his list to make the games more fair, but it's not like an IW gunline is without weaknesses. Some of the responsibility falls onto you for figuring out how to exploit them. Like I said already, he has no real dedicated anti-armour, so as soon as you show up with a Spartan or a Knight he's pretty much shit out of luck. His list is as one-dimensional as yours is, it just happens to be the thing that kicks your teeth in.

Hmm. What would be a good Brethren of Iron DA list, actually? I'm thinking of this as a way to play as counter Mechanicum.

Confront him, but be all calm and cool about it, that way if he has issues or anything like that you won't give him any reason to get all butthurt.

Don't make a new army just to thrash him, make an army to have fun. If you like the Fists, you like the Fists.

Look at this god damn prescience: I should enlist in the Thousand Sons initiate program.

Are you pulling out legs though user? Buy a whole new army?

Really?

Good advice for this guy, but are you guys retarded or what?

> 6 Thudd Guns w/ Shatter shells
> 24 S8 Sunder shots

Templar kid dont get a knight, that faggot IW list would fuckin wreck your 100+ dollar Knight.

Just remember to invest in vacuums, user! I hear that they'll be worth a pretty penny soon!

Specifically, get this one. The karma of him getting his entire gunline blasted down by a S7 AP3 Hellstorm template after dropping phosphex on your head game after game is pure justice. You don't even need to go all our or anything with an allied Questoris detachment since now you can just run them as a Lord of War. The Shatter Shells might be able to kill it before it does *too* much damage, but he'll have to focus literally all his shooting at it for at least one if not two turns. In that time the rest of the army can actually do things, and you'll probably still delete an entire unit or two off the board with the Hellstorm before it goes down.

Don't buy a whole new army, brainstorm about how you can make your existing army less one-dimensional. The reason he's beating you so hard is because you've pigeonholed yourself into a single archtype. Any list like that is hard, but brittle - it'll do really well against things that it counters, and collapse completely against things that counter it.

Again - Land Raiders, Spartans, Drop Pods, Knights. He has no way to deal with any of those things. Flyers are another decent option since it looks like nothing in his list can shoot up. A single Fire Raptor can go a long way... although the model is an absolute nightmare to build so think on that one before you decide that's your solution.

If you get one of the Knights with an Ionic Flare Shield (Magaera, Styrix, or Atrapos) they actually won't even be able to hurt it. Flare Shields are fucking anathema to Iron Warriors. None of their most popular units or list builds are able to deal with them effectively outside of punching them to death with chainfists.

Anyone have ideas for pre heresy Word Bearers special rules/wargear?

>pre heresy Word Bearers
There is no such thing. Word Bearers are the original arch-heretics. Besides, their special jetpack guys are already the closest thing they should have to something that predated the completion of their fall to Chaos.

For homebrew? I dunno.

For use in 30k? Not really, if there's one thing Lorgar did right, it was purge all the loyalists from his legion, as he was the only one with 101% loyal followers, while legionnaires like Loken and such remained loyalists instead of siding with their primarch.

mein neger, the spirit of knight user lives on through you.