Warmachine and Hordes General

their tier list will be in their army book, rumored to be released in december.

they will look like pic related

So you think tier lists might change the overall balance? Okay then.

honestly all the theme lists out so far have pretty big impact. you can get 16+ free points with Kingmaker, which is about as bad as theme forces that gave discounts got in mk2...

On top of that you have some decent bonuses. enemy is a ranged / magic assassin? okay, come my beloved jack, headbutt me!

not to mention damiano is now the best trencher caster in the game...

the Ceph one offers discounts and great bonuses like battlegroup wide hyper aggressive.

Theme forces are going to be huge in mk3, it just takes a few bad apples that are stronger than the devs intended (BECAUSE THIS HASN'T EVER HAPPENED BEFORE) and boom, balance is fucked up.

Sacred Charge too - they are missing a small chunk of the PDF at the start (replaced by null bytes - basically what you'd get if a torrent was stopped before a chunk was finished)

fucking 40k formations ruined that game. Looks like they are going to ruin this one too.

>trenchers with CA in this theme

Advance, dig in, shoot some dudes with CRA's at rng 14 with pMagnus. If they shoot back at you, they need to break DEF17. If they hit you and you tough, they can't shoot you again afterwards.

Fucking ridiculous.

Never managed to play much in Mk2, but I've got a small Cygnar collection. It seems like pNemo will work better with multiple 'jacks now, at the cost of losing a bit of strength on the mono-Jack rush. ATGM UA seems like it took quite the nerf. Charger looks more viable now that he gets to fire both shots base. Would I be correct that an ATGM marshal'ed Charger would get Rune Shot on both shots?

yes.
and cyclone can on 2d3. pity about the colossals being ruled out though.
could grenadier+trenchers for many. dynamo can also.
on a charger is a waste. marshalled jacks don't get power up. so you miss out on powerful shot for both shots. unless you know of a way to dual empower that i haven't found...

does anyone know what PP is selling at GenCon

is it just the new WM upgraded junior casters or also the upgraded hordes junior locks

and will they have stuff from further down the release pipeline like hell mouths, inflictor, etc?

>does anyone know what PP is selling at GenCon
Skorne and Troll Mk3 battleboxes. Thousands of them.

They say in prime cast 34 which ones they sell when.

They're only selling the wm casters at gencon, then only the hordes guys at wmw (or whatever is after gencon)

lol, fucking think about this...

Corbeau with Feign Death

Hmm......

>what is a tier list

Man... if only we had an updated OP that included a list of the published novels and some more stuff for the RPG... Oh wait we do!

textuploadercom / 5e4p5

ah i just thought maybe they would also be selling some of the lock n load early release stuff again too

i'll check out that prime cast thx

hmm. thoughts?

Irusk2 +27
-Sylys -4
-Conquest -37
-Juggy -12
Kovnik Joe -4
WGRC (max) -12
-Rocketeer x3 -6
IFP (max) -15
-UA -4
Field Gun -4
Battle Mechaniks (min) -3

I'm not really sure. I had no Juggy, an Artillery Kapitan, and Andy with a Grolar in there instead of the IFP, with another field gun, but felt real short on melee bodies, and nothing to benefit from Battle Lust or Energizer (except Irusk himself). Just felt like I didn't have an army for all the tech. But now it feels just very...spread out to take advantage of all the tech.

idk Irusk gives bonuses to such a varied amount of types...do y'all like to have a target for every buff in your army or do you sometimes say things like "i got nothing for Battle Lust, and that's NBD because the list has crazy shooting and melee jacks" or something?

What's the next unit to pickup for trolls after picking up the battlegroup? I've been reading a lot of conflicting info

krielstone

with ua?

yep

trying to think of any unit anywhere that you would not want the UA for...and failing

Kriel Warriors

I think all that stuff has hit general release now, although the stocks are so low it might seem like they're not out yet. We're at 2 BBs a week at my store.

I'd try to build a list that maximizes your caster's tool box, yeah. In terms of strong lists and powerful casters, those with the deepest toolbox and the best way to leverage it generally perform the best. Irusk is a great caster.

There's one thing that I think should be said: fire for effect can be accomplished by anyone and a behemoth, basically. Because of that, I wouldn't look for reasons to use it. It might just not be that great because the behemoth exists, and that's okay

i meant like hell mouths and stuff slated for august or later

wasn't there a skorne unit that didn't want its ua because it gave out spell ward, or did that get fixed?

Mk2 Cetrati. They're good now though. Still stupidly expensive at 26 with UA and 33 with an Agonizer.

I wouldn't use it on the Behemoth honestly. gets the same effect to all its shots for 1 more focus.

now that i think about it that is a dumb reason

i just like the behemoth with Andy.

i'd rather just put the upkeep on Conquest and use its focus to boost secondary gunshots if i'm not making templates.

Why is that

I haven't read Into the Storm yet so I'll look into that but I have read Sacred Charge and there were no issues with the pdf before I uploaded it.

Oh yeah that's what I meant. I should have been more clear.

You can cast fire for effect and pay 1 to upkeep it, or you can just assign him one more focus and get the same thing. I think we're in violent agreement.

I was thinking about taking a destroyer with fire for effect just to have 3 fully boosted bombards, but I'm not sure that's actually good, or in the "just because you can doesn't mean you should category."

How big is Immoren?

You could always put it on a decimator for 2 fully boosted shoots (costing 4 focus)

Just put FFE on a Mortar.

If you're spending that much on support, you fucked up.

With everyone else's fury management in the shitter and welps unchanged, trolls have some pretty good fury management now.

Have look at Doomie2 or 3. Take a stone an welps and maybe a runebearer and the rest in beasts.

If you can stomach the some fire eaters and some more support, check out the Ragnor list thats been floating around

Kriels are shit, but they're cheap shit that can get really high arm and tie up a heavies. You don't want to spend more points on fodder thats intended to die.

Also there UA gives them rise, and fuck that. They'll be dead 9/10 before they can use it.

Their attachment lost a lot that made it interesting, no more bowling or pGrissel shenanigans.

So just enjoy the 10 arm 19 bodies at 11 points.

about 4 Us

not a fan of conquest with irusk2?

Energizer is pretty cool as a clutch assassination move.

I don't think you can move Conquest with Energizer.

you can't. gargossals can't move outside of their normal movement, except for the archangel's specific use of deceptively mobile (which is basically reposition-for-this-garg-only).

believe me i got super disappointed when i realized i couldn't use overrun to give a superiority'd victor 19" of free-charging threat on feat turn

Should I assemble a Grolar or a Kodiak? They both seem cool but I can't decide.

Magnetize.

Okay so I just tried a game with Naaresh and it went fucking awfully. To maximize the feat I brought lots of cyclops which seemed to make sense to me. The problem I had was that it was FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY HIT ANYTHING BECAUSE CYCLOPS THAT CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE ARE ONLY MAT6 AND FUTURE SIGHT IS FUCKING AWFUL

So I had to keep Naaresh up front to get use out of Lamentation and he got assassinated. I didn't kill anything on feat turn. My god the Cyclops Savage is a fucking awful beast. I'd rather spend 4 points on Maximus and bring something else along. Maximum honestly looks better than a Savage to me. Only gets 1 attack compared to the 2 that a Savage useless gets, but gets an extra d6 on damage, has tough, spell ward, and higher armour. And berserk makes up for it anyway.

My god the minion solos I can bring utterly annihilate my own faction shit on value. I'm considering playing minions with a Skorne warlock at this point. The Paingiver Taskmaster only costs 3 points and makes minion units retarded. Gives them tough, steady, and +2STR all at the same time. Fuck this faction man.

That's why you don't play conquest

Someone looked at Naaresh's feat and thought: "This means I should bring as many mediocre light warbeasts as possible."

Skorne heavy beasts don't need +3STR to kill something, and if I wanted a defensive feat I'd be playing Morghoul1. Hell Morghoul1 gives +2STR and +2SPD which is probably as good as what Naaresh's feat does. The only other place I can see a use for Naaresh's feat is the Reptile Hound (you get 1 card (and thus damage spiral) per 2 models), but for that you may as well just bring Zaadesh and give them Tag Team. Like damn son, what a fucking awful warlock Naaresh truly is. A bag full of mediocre spells, a pointless feat, and meme-tier abilities.

energizer alone seems like a shitty reason not to do that. though again his list does want combined arms to take advantage of all his spell tech.

I think WGRC and some flavor of Iron Fang are required, maybe MoW STs instead.

i'd love to see a Skorne take on Sorscha's 18

...

Honestly with the cannoneer buff and sorscha no longer being able to take that many snipers, I think skorne might have ok game.

I think the Cannoneer is going to be a huge player in Skorne moving forwards. It's basically the same gun as a 5pt artillery piece, except it can boost the hit/damage, is far more mobile, can actually take a smack, and has serious game in melee. Mad props to that animus when you bring her with Mordikaar because his gun at 14" is pretty scary.

(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Agonizer [7]
- Aptimus Marketh [6]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Farrow Brigands (max) [15]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Maximus [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Task Master [3]

Oh dur didn't realize it wasn't BG only

funny thing is, 40k formations were a response to warmahorde tier lists.

>[citation needed]

I could actually see that. When the DA special terminator unit came, they were basically a warmachine unit. Complete with defensive line and mini feat. They'd have started generating the formation ideas around the same time.

Difference is, PP doesn't box the rules exclusively with 500$ "bundles" offering no discount.

Instead they sell you 6 medium base infantry for $55.

ARM 15 user. Chances of every Kriel Warrior being under stone AND engaged with Spd 5 is pretty low.

They'll just be shot to death.

I held off my feelings on this edition until I got 50+ games under my belt. But I'm afraid it's true:

This edition is shit for balance and rules

They've fucked this up so bad, then retreat to #DesignSpace when challenged. I'm the saddest I've been about the game in a long time.

On to Guild Ball I guess.

>Madelyn Corbeau

Ok, it's not even funny now. She puts the "mercenary" in mercenary latina hooker.

>ok, it's hilarious

>m-muh Naaresh list with cylcops spam is so bad, Skorne is so bad r-right guys?

Well rused, fag.

It's more despair in that despite being made 20% cheaper, our light beatstick is still a completely useless pile of shit. The Brute is fine, the Shaman has its niche, but damn son the Savage and the Raider holy shit what were PP smoking?

So? Every faction has options that are just bad and shouldn't be taken. Raider is just an unfortunate side effect of PP being clueless as to why people took Raiders to begin with, while also making the Cannoneer a superior option for only 8 more points.

Really though, you're an idiot if you think Naaresh light spam would have worked. It didn't work in Mk2 and there's nothing in Mk3 that would have changed that... except for Condition and Enrage getting nerfed, which should have been your first fucking clue.

>there's nothing in Mk3 that would have changed that
Cyclops got cheaper.

>Enrage getting nerfed
Enrage was sidegraded. Or do you think throws aren't insanely powerful? Any beast that's had its spirit blown away is VERY susceptible to being knocked down, and it just so happens that our two best heavy hitters (Gladiator and Bronzeback) are excellent throwers. There's also situations where you need to face two different models on opposite sides, and the forced charge wouldn't let you do it.

this. I did it, it's piss easy.

What guild?

Mort player here

Your right, GW are totally better at pricing infantry sets...
5 terminators, $50
5 stormcast eternals (basic infantry), $50
5 wraithguard, $50
3 Ogryn, $47
3 Tyranid Warriors, $51
3 meganobs, $63
3 Tau battle suits, $75

Gee Willikers look at all dem cheap medium infantry models.

>Cyclops got cheaper.

You do know that the Mk2 to Mk3 point translation isn't really twice the old point value right? Most point costs are pretty deceptive and if a model "stayed the same point cost" it actually became a little more expensive if the point cost was simply doubled.

>Or do you think throws aren't insanely powerful

I think they are in the 5% of the games where they are more useful than straight up charging, but not enough to make up for the fact that my warbeasts will have to pay for their charges, which they do far more often than any other power attack. There's no way Enrage was a "sidegrade", it was a flat out nerf with a very thin silver lining.

Yeah, I know that points were only just a little under doubled, but 20% off still works out at cheaper.

And charges are far weaker now that everyone can just premeasure their shit. I know your threat range, you know mine, we'll probably approach each other near or through a forest or some shit. There's no excuse for an enemy heavy being able to charge and alpha one of your heavies now.

>what are scenarios
>what are guns

You can't just toe out of charge threat ranges forever. Everyone has to walk into charge threats for some reason or another. Either way, still makes them way more useful than fucking throws that's for sure.

Yeah, with ret most enemy jacks have the choice of "get shot and chipped at slowly" or "walk/run into my charge threat range"

Unless I am Fighting Sloan. Fuck her.

ret is probably the grossest faction right now. it has ample ways of killing sloan.

Of which I don't really own most of right now. What kills Sloan? Ossyan list?

Run a block of ARM-buffed Sentinels at her face while the rest of your list yanks screeners out of the way?

I'm pretty sure what kills Sloan is a shit load of dudes who are fast enough to engage her by turn 2 and not die on the way. I don't know why a defender would care about a free strike, but a Cygnar light might.

Then said dudespam list eats shit against Madrak 2, ugh

Well, that's why you play two+ -list tournaments, you pavement ape. You got your shooty list to fuck most matches, and your choppy list to cover what your shooty doesn't.

Any thoughts about Tanith?

Only thing I'm not so sure on is the Bone Grinders for that list, since you already have a gallows grove. Maybe replace it with Shifting Stones and a second grove?

I would drop the bone grinders and one stalker down to a pureblood, then take a wild argus for feat bark slamming madness.

Thats actually how I had the list origionaly, wich is probably better. I thought the bone grinders could be interesting for craft talisman wich would give me extra arcing range

I'm not sure who I want to pair her with. I'm leaning towards kruegar2

Reread craft talisman. It specifies that the caster of the spells has to be the point of origin, which prevents getting the extra range while arcing. Krueger2 is a soild choice, but I've been liking Krueger1 for the limited time I've been messing with him for anti-gunline defense skew. Defense 17 beasts and a defense 20 warnoun really make them work for it.

toss in WE&SJ to really lose friends

Well shit.

id drop a stalker for wrong eye, not really sold on the pureblood

Finally i made the switch to Cygnar from Khador.

ALL HAIL THE KING.

Quick question guise;
If you could modify Mk3, what would you do?

It's still way to early to think about that in any real terms.

I mean, some shit looks fucked, but plenty of shit has looked fucked and turned into smoke after people actually used it for six months.

What about the way that some things were shit, and became must haves, whilst other things that were OP stayed OP
and some things were crap could have really done with some help; and are still complete shit that no one would ever use?

Not to mention that some things are totally redundant because other things do the same thing better and often cheaper?

Again, far too early to judge accurately. I'm more than willing to admit that something like the Rhinodon is shit, sure, but straight up judging what's overpowered or not at this point is kind of folly, I think. We don't have a meta to judge anything by, really, or make any calls on how powerful it feels.

It's far too easy to label stuff OP or shit just by looking at the stats instead of playing the game.

Question, the Cygnar Card list in OP's post are they the most up to date versions of the cards? Only asking cause they say leaked rather than deck.

Leaks turned out to be honest.

Errata exists, mostly just fixes, not changes.

So no. Not most up to date. But you aren't in a position to complain now are you?
same boat as me

Oh no I'm fine with that, I can keep up with the Errata on my own, I just needed the cards is all.