Doctor as BBEG

Nah. Roger Delgado Master had this wonderful... grandeur to him. He certainly had a sense of humor, or even irony about him, but he was always very dignified. Dressed to the nines, crisp dialogue and all that.
Contrast that with the Doctor, who wears fucking vegetables to make sure you know he's extra silly.
The Master may be smart and dangerous, but he *really* wants you to take him seriously.

Honestly, NuWho at its Nadir made the Doctor so insane and unpredictably and whimsically destructive that I could totally buy this. His morality is so bizarre and skewed, and he's so arrogant sometimes that I can see him doing absolutely insane things with just a little tweaking that push him into straight evil.
I could see him, say, blowing up a company of morally grey Space Mercs who actually ado a lot of good by hiring out to species that can't protect themselves.
Or disarming a technocracy that pissed him off with its heavy handedness, and then leaving them to be utterly destroyed by their ravenous enemies.

Again, the whole "witnessed-your-entire-race-die" thing probably contributes to that.

I would say that the newdoc would definitely do those things. He's bately on the right side of a total zero tolerance policy. I could certainly see him killing off entire species and wearing a rediculous hat at the same time. "I've disabled the climate controls on all your warships, your entire species is doomed. NOW TELL ME YOU LIKE MY HAT!"

6 was a narcassistic nutbag who regarded everyone else as an idiot. He did good, but he went about it in a very dickish way. He was basically an anti-villain already.
7 was almost an outright villain anyway.
10 almost went that way after Waters of Mars. That speech though.
11 was too whacky to be a serious BBEG, and 12 just takes that even further. It's gotten too silly.

Yeah, 10 is almost bbeg allready. If not the childish nature of british tv as a whole...

If by 'The Doctor' you mean a Time Lord who has multiple regenerations and can orchestrate plans over centuries to see his/her plan come to fruition, then yes.

If you mean the actual 'The Doctor' then no, though some of the NuWho ones and War Doctor could be close.

> War Doctor commits genocide of two races to end a war that threatened all of space and time
> #9 spends most of his time in a funk trying to shake his PTSD from the time as War Doctor, so doubtful.

> #10 spends half of his time either telling people to behave or he'll destroy them... Usually not physically, but sometimes yes, he does kill people. So yes, he could be a BBEG if you cross him and don't actively try to mend your ways when he gives you your one chance.

> #11 makes a lot of grandiose threats simply playing up the legacy of what he's done already, expecting this to be his last life (as he's out of regenerations) if only because he wants to delay the inevitable and continue going on adventures.

>#12 is a grumpy old man who is losing touch with his humane side and needs to be reminded of who he is, by both his companions and his enemies. And after watching his companion die and not be able to rules lawyer his way into saving her, he nearly broke the universe to try and undo it.

A better villain from Who-verse would probably be The Master/Missy or Rassilon, leader of the Time Lords.

He already was one during the "a good man goes to war" story arc

I mean someone with the personality of the Doctor and a similar backstory to the Doctor's. If that implies a demigod, some sort of other immortal, or an actual time lord doesn't matter.

Well, the biggest issue is that the overall backstory of The Doctor is a guy who stared into a literal vortex of all of time and all of space, saw something inside of it and just started running.

Compared to everyone else of his race who also saw said vortex and found some sort of purpose in it or went stark raving mad. So you're BBEG is someone who, for basically all of their life, has just run whenever things got rough, and used his intellect and skills to continue running and surviving. Even if you piss him off all he does then is gain retribution in some way, shape, or form, then goes back to adventuring.

You (as the PCs) would have to have done something particularly evil to earn his ire for that long.

I'm speaking more his character post-war.

He's the type of BBEG who is less "bad guy" and more "misguided good guy who's been through some shit and isn't thinking straight because he's emotionally compromised" sort of BBEG.

Heck, he's not even really evil. He conquers his home frickin' planet and he's like "Nope, I'm outie!" and off he goes.

Then he almost tears the Universe a new one just to save one life, and ends up giving himself a lobotomy just to prevent it from happening.

The Doctor's messed up. A good guy, but damn man, it's a miracle he has some form of conditional sanity. Like a Wizard whose stared into the eldritch once too many times yet somehow manages to form cohesive thoughts and simulate sanity.

It's the moments when he's 100% sane you gotta be scared as all hell.

Q: What do you call That Guy who scored dead last on every test every single semester in med school?

A: Doctor.

His entire race that he killed.

I think that this is the reason for always having a Companion.

It's not just the loneliness, although that probably contributes, but it's more to maintain a reference point for his twisted broken mind.

He has seen too much, done too much and been far too far to maintain the sort of outlook that would be applicable to civilized society. The Doctor isn't some old wizard who got too close to eldritch abominations too often. He is an eldritch abomination that dimly remembers being a real person.

By registering the reactions of his Companions and trying to live up to what he perceives as their expectations of him he can act within certain parameters and therefore convince himself that he's the same person who stole a time machine and left Gallefray for ADVENTURE!!!!

The Companions are a surrogate conscience that curbs the worst of his potential war crimes.

Which of course comes with it's own draw backs. If one of them gets harmed, captured or killed he is prepared to go Full Genocide and fuck the universe and causality and notions of conventional reality to get them back because without them to act as a moderating influence he has no concept of Overkill. Or moderation. His personality is self destructive and would take the rest of the universe across all of time with it if left unchecked.

So yes. Doctor without a pet human is a BBEG. You don't need to change anything.

>the childish nature of british tv as a whole...
Yeah unlike mature American television where we have to take a detour every ten minutes to watch some people fucking.

>The Master
>Lawful

Nah, he's pretty much the definition of chaotic evil

You mean best doctor.

he's not 8 though, he's War Doctor.

Actually, a while back, I nearly did this to my players. Veeky Forums convinced me to use pic related as a BBEG instead and they were right to do so.

But that was specific to my situation.

story?

>The Doctor loses his companion and goes on a destructive bent to go back in time to save them, knowing the full consequences of that action
>The party are a group of humans from near the end of the universe who use the doctor's grave to reverse engineer a semi-working TARDIS
>Their job is to stop the Doctor
>He's not even paying the party any attention, but the ripple effects of his intervening are creating obstacles for the party

Please tell me a story, Grandpa.

Welp, I kinda stepped on the surprise of it and I don't have time right now to repost it, but here is the conclusion and link:

>I realized that to stop my unstoppable PC’s I needed to bring in a more powerful, morally righteous character to show them their path is flawed and I think The Doctor is perfect, but Veeky Forums responds, “No user. Seek not The Doctor. J. Jonah Jameson is the moral beacon your players deserve.” And damn it if they are not right.
>MFW when J. Jonah Jameson trumps the Doctor.
>If only I had a printing press.

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/24097002

I'd appreciate it if you'd share any thoughts.

Well, yes. Sir Jay, son of James, is far superior to the doc in that situation. And, honestly, more easily performed.

You don't even need to have a printing press, just have him as a lone courier, fighting monsters to warn the land of false heroes. Because there are a couple of points in favor of handling that situation:

1; The opponents of the player, in this case, MUST be outnumbered. A group can be seen as a gang, but one man is just that.

2; They MUST be weaker than the party: killing them must be viewable in the same light as killing a toddler.

3; They must have an unyielding core of righteousness. That means pursuing the party beyond his own nation, for the truth belongs in the hands of all.

And 4; He must fight with the Truth, not against it. Nothing should be contestable.

Also, 5; If you introduce him in a manner that also allows the party to like him, his inevitable crusade against them may be more poignant.

James son of Jay. His father goes by Jay Jameson.

This is the 8th doctor!

All his enemies could have won if they just murdered him instead of talking to him. So not really.

Why do people like these videos full of dramatic moments entirely out of context? Like most of those lines were very good in the context of the episode, but the video just strings them together meaninglessly and they come across as cheesy.
12 is more serious than 11 most of the time. He has his silly moments, but he's also had some of the least LOLWACKY episodes in nuWho, and Heaven Sent was arguably the best nuWho episode period (though it was followed by Hell Bent, which sucked).

Could work, but not if you use any of their typical levels of coherence.

Dr Who usually wins by messy logic, grandiose speeches about his magnificence, ass-pulls and outright nonsense. If you took any of that into a game you'd spike a revolt from your players.

Are we forgetting how amazing evil Rory was when Amy got threatened.

He blew up an armada just to have a sweet backdrop to his threats. Mass murder for aesthetics. 10/10

>Literally the one time this happens
>Calling Rory "evil" because of a shitty Moffat-ism
>Rory getting shit on and not having his final scene actually shot.

How the balls is the Doctor Lawful? He's always been 'Douchbaggery Incarnate'. He's stylish as fuck but that's not Lawful.

Rory was critically underused in an impressive way, which is sad when he's a really good guy.

He's a skilled nurse and has shown an utterly unshakable willpower along with a willingness to stare down things that could easily destroy him without blinking.

...I meant the Master, not the Doctor.

I think he shares the trait with the Doctor, where they are inherently good people, but all it would take is one push too far and its full-on genocide time

I think part of the reason Pond ended up going for him is that he's got a lot of the good traits of the doctor but he's a lot more grounded and humble. The doctor needs grand adventure and excitement to live. Rory is willing to go through them but at his core he's a good man who's happy when those around him are happy.

He's weirdly enough very similar to Samwise in that matter. The willpower of a titan and the ambition of a gardener.

Top comparison, actually.

Wasn't the first Doctor a sociopath that had to be kept in check by his companion to keep him from committing casual homicide?

Nah, he was just a lot more kill happy than NuWho. Also he liked to troll the shit out of Ian. But then, Ian would be wearing a red shirt if he'd been born in america, not england so he deserves all said trolling.

> for basically all of their life, has just run whenever things got rough, and used his intellect and skills to continue running and surviving

Jesus fucking christ, The Doctor is Rincewind.

No, the entire point of the series is a whimsical adventure indulging children in the wonders of science, history, empathy and the indomitable human spirit. If you think the Doctor would make a good villain, you're just like the chumps who ran the series into the ground with acerbic parody, oblivious to the fact that for all it's pulp works like the fantastic voyage had a pertinent subtext.

Doctor Who is children's TV, it's obviously going to be childish.

more like a version of Rincewind that has found a few very dumb but cute people (humanity) living somewhere and suddenly started to care for them.

the Doctor IS a BBEG. That's why Me (The Woman Who Lived) has an eye on him. That's why Torchwood was founded.
He gives himself as a great friend of humans, but he is not. He is unable to see his shortcomings. That's why he is leaving chaos and destruction after 'he saved the day'.

> He is unable to see his shortcomings.
Yes he is. In "A Good Man Goes To War" he says something to the effect of:
> A good man doesn't need rules. Maybe one day you'll understand why I have so many.

>If not the childish nature of british tv as a whole..

youtube.com/watch?v=AG_ZrvyQEHM

This is was a really BBEG moment.so fucking good.

I think him being underused became an in-joke at one point. They did kill him off like, eight times.
OP, 12th doctor will kill you with a smile if you're a danger to the group, or if he stands to gain something from it. Sources: Inside the Dalek and Before the Flood.

>Implying he wasn't already.

Gallifreyans are directly responsible for every negative thing in the entire universe.

>Harold Shipman is actually a Time Lord
>Can you thwart Medical Malpractice on a cosmic scale?

Aren't they responsible for removing magic from the universe too?

Bump

>NuWho at its Nadir made the Doctor so insane and unpredictably and whimsically destructive that I could totally buy this.

Definitely, the Doctor in his best moments in NuWho was basically a capricious child with nigh on unlimited power. He's about one bad decision from becoming a supervillain and normally he relies on his companions to make sure he doesn't go that way, because when he gets angry and decides he wants revenge he gets impressively nasty.

It's a shame about 12 as well, he looked set to be extremely effective as a socially stunted and standoffish loner who doesn't really want to have to put up with social complications. But the audience didn't like a grumpy Doctor so instead we got sunglasses guitar man.

I think we got a decent balance closer to the end of the season, even if Hell Bent was terrible.

man, the ending to the "family of blood" two-parter.
> He locked my Sister into mirrors, not a mirror, but every mirror. whenever something moves just outside your sight while you look into a mirror - it is her, cursed to be immortal, lonely, and looking on.
> He bound my mother in chains forged from a dwarfstar and threw her into a black hole. She's still falling, eternally slow, while approaching the accretion disc, only to be consumed at the end of time.
> He made me immovabel, I am now a scarecrow.

that final montage was creepy as hell.

Almost as good as the "Waters of Mars" Finale, where he declares himself the timelord-triumphant - only to see the people he had tried to save be zapped away.

Family of Blood is actually based on a novel about the 7th Doctor, which explains why he's so fucking metal in that.

Two of these people are fine if a bit shocked, man. It's the third who kills herself.

oh was it?
I thought they were zapped away by some cosmic power somehow?
Are you saying she shot herself?

Hell Bent was a great episode, it was just really weird. It might be infuriating if you were looking for a conclusion to last week's cliffhanger, but taken by itself it's thought-provoking room escape puzzle.

Nope.
Yep, the "hero" poster gal goes back home and shoots herself while the Doctor's feeling all proud and shit about saving her.

youtube.com/watch?v=w4xm9NHNUf8

Particularly as he obviously sat down and thought about what he wanted to do, this wasn't an act of impulsive anger, he sat down and decided to freeze someone in a moment of time. Even if he gets free he's frozen in a moment of time, with no way out, and mr Timey Wimey decided to deliberately do that to him.

Damn Doctor, you scary.

I'll reserve judgement until the five year production schedule completes and the three new episodes are ready, so far though it can't be worse than it was and I reckon it was getting better at the end.

I really wish they'd done more with Davros though, the entire thing being a fake out on his part felt cheap. Id've absolutely loved it if he'd been sincere the whole way through and he'd died at the end, it did a lot to make me understand Davros' characterisation, having the whole thing revealed as a ruse felt cheap.

The puzzle was Heaven Sent. Hell Bent is when he shows up on Gallifrey and is all GET OFF MY PLANET.

>I really wish they'd done more with Davros though, the entire thing being a fake out on his part felt cheap. Id've absolutely loved it if he'd been sincere the whole way through and he'd died at the end, it did a lot to make me understand Davros' characterisation, having the whole thing revealed as a ruse felt cheap.

I'm really, really glad I wasn't the only one thinking that.

When the doctor gave him a bit of Time Lord regenz so he could get his eyes to work and watch the sun come up one last time it would have been perfect if he had died right there and then.

Yes he had been a monster. Possibly one of the worst that there ever was. Bu maybe there was still even at the end something in there that might have been a good man if a different life had been lived.

Then there could have been the wacky hijinks of trying to get the fuck off of Skaaros before the darleks find out dad is dead.