/hwg/ - Historical Wargames General

this makes me wet

Those robots seem much faster than I remember. Also that first round...RIP Razor.

Stubble? Fucking hell, those are gorgeous.

Are these perry plastics?

Yes they are. It's the WoTR box.

A blog has interesting formation of army cadets. Sadly there is only a single photo matching (pic related) but no evidence of those blasted white trousers, for it's belt-up. Ospery has not a single federal cadet. Damn it!

baberonwargames.blogspot.com/2012/06/figures-for-mexican-revolution-era.html

Anyone can help me with that? I have a shitton of WWI Germans, and I would be happy to send them as cadets to Mexico, but I want to have at last sigle example of proper uniform! I am a history buff and idea of having unhistorical uniforms would trigger my autism. I checked with stuff about Mexican Revolution on the internet and on my university-yet nothing turned up. They may be from Escuela Militar de Aspirantes 1905-1914.

Stubble is actually pretty easy, just mix in a little grey with the flesh colouring used.

BRDM

Have you tried entiner your serach terms in Spanish? Probably won't help but easy enough to try.

I was interested in the 2nd Sino-Japanese war a few years ago and it's similar. There just aren't a lot of photos in existence.

Skrimish Sangin looks intersting yet VERY expansive, so is set of FOF. What are other modern skrimish games out there?

I think "5 core" can be played in a modern setting.

Our NZWars game doesn't have hidden movement markers, and instead handles hidden forces by having them emerge from terrain, or come into play within 6" of one of your units, but not within 12" of the enemy deployment zone (or inside it)

This means you dont have to worry about markers, or using a map to note hidden units (although that would be ideal, but fiddly)

The only drawback is that hidden rifle pits can show up anywhere, and its slightly unrealistic ("Summon rifle pit!" was the call some of the players used during playtesting) although its still a good representation of how the period worked. The Maori where usually very smart about where they placed their hidden units, and the colonials were often very predictable in which route they would take, often walking straight into an ambush. So the rules actually work very effectively to represent the period.

Not sure if this is the latest edit, an user from Veeky Forums had a bit of an edit and playtest of this, but I've still to give it a couple of games with those rules, so for now this is the latest version. One of the hardest games I've ever had to balance in my life, and still probably not perfect. Asymmetric/Guerrilla warfare is a bitch!

...

LAV-75

>rules are so different from when I contributed

wow good work

And then there's other Nordic Weasel stuff - No End in Sight? He has his nation builder too, that's fun.

...

How are Lledo cars against 20mm?
Anyone ever played Mad Dogs with guns? Are there any other rules on ,,Gangster" shelf that are worth their salt?

>Are there any other rules on ,,Gangster" shelf that are worth their salt?

I've always read about Prohibition-era wargaming but no titles have ever seemed to stand out. Although recently I have heard of a thing called "The Chicago Way". There's a broad range of excellent minis available, what with Pulp and/or Cthulhu-themed wargaming being so popular.

>The Chicago Way

Gave it a long research and sadly it's only port of DMH to Prohibition. And The Great Escape Games already made much stuff to keep people buy only their figures, like publishing the rules along with models (despite you bought the book already)-and I'm playing in other scale, so... The book has few basic scenarios and that's it- unless they publish more books. You also need a set of special cards for every player, so in the end it's a pricy ruleset if you want to play covention games.

That made me look for others yet there are ,,Mad dogs..." I know little about and other ruleset, very interesting and never relased, scheulded for St. Never's Day, as one of the authors sadly passed into Big Sleep. Can't recall the name tho.

I found it, was supposed to be called ,,We only kill each other".

...

/toy/ told me to ask here, too, since you guys have experience. I hope you don't mind.
Can you guys help, maybe? Just reply there, to not clutter up your thread.

Huhh, we usually work with sub-city scale if such thing exists...the obvious starting point would be to check some existing cites' maps. Google Maps will be your greatest help with this. You should also decide on scale - I wouldn't do this above 3mm as even small towns are fucking big for building them entirely. 3mm is around...1:600? Can't remember.

You could build most of the things you want from plasticard, cardboard, and so on and so forth, but things like churches and other more detailed buildings might need some extra - even tho you want to build yourself most of the stuffs, check manufacturers who do 3mm buildings. There are lots of papercraft stuff available too I think.

Hope I could help user, good luck in your endeavours, and in case you make any kind of progress, feel free to come back and post them.

6mm.wargaming.info/page3.shtml

Check this. Or go even smaller like said

Pulp Action is a ludicrously good game for small skirmishes. Has a heavy emphasis on objectives other than killing all of the other guys, with plot points and such, but you can just shoot people. Some of the expansions introduce new character types that may be useful, like gangs (where a "character" is a small bunch of minions), and the most recent supplement, Pulp League, collects all of the character traits from the other supplements into one book if you don't want to get them all.

The base game's fine on its own though.

You will need a custom "Fortune Deck" of cards to play, but it's not too expensive if you want a properly-printed one. Somewhat cheaper if you just make your own.

Thanks!

I literally just saw 1809in3mm.blogspot.co.nz/ linked from elsewhere, which shows what sort of effects you can get with teeny buildings, but honestly you sound more like a model railway kind of guy.

I'd go with impressionistic stuff personally - monopoly houses and similar cut out of cheap balsa, painted in a basic style, build up a small residential area out of those. Red sides and slate roofs, or white and red for a mediterranean look? Make up a couple of dozen of those - again, cheaply and crudely - and use them to experiment with layouts and drawing roads.

One tip for modern period stuff is that even basic buildings look infinitely better if you scatter some telegraph poles and wires along the roadside, even if the "road" is a strip of sandpaper, the "land" is a green cloth, the buildings are monopoly, and the poles and wires are slightly-modified matchsticks with black thread.

Also you really don't have to do a whole town to get the whole town feel. The relevant wargaming terms are figure scale and ground scale - you don't use three hundred dudes to represent a company of three hundred dudes, because they'd have to travel ridiculous distances on a giant board. Trim stuff down - take a map, sketch out circles for districts, scale that to the board space you want to use, and then put enough stuff in the district to make it feel good without slavishly duplicating the real thing. A hundred houses instead of two thousand, a dozen factory and warehouse buildings instead of filling an entire room, that sort of thing. Scale down in both building size and building quantity!

Unless you want to do it the mad way. If you do, post results. In fact, post results whatever happens, we'll be interested.

Maybe you're right. Or at least, I should leave the full town to the future, when I'm more experienced.
I'll post images when it's done, when I finish it. I'll check out my local hobby-shop sometime, and it may be finished in another thread.
But I'll start within the week, and I swear I'm not putting it off.
I'm not opposed to more advice, still.

>Maybe you're right. Or at least, I should leave the full town to the future, when I'm more experienced.
It's always good to start small and scale up, but I have seen plenty of examples where someone said "NO I WILL JUST JUMP INTO THE FULL STUPID THING AND DO IT ALL" and it's turned out gloriously.

Have fun, whatever you do!

Use model train stuff and lore. Ready kits abound in many scales!

>Look for model train stuff
>Find great looking one in images
>Go to page
woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1483/page/1
Fuck! This is way too expensive. I hope that's not the norm, cause I'm not wealthy.

micromark.com/ho-scale-structure-kits-and-accessories.html
Now I'm thinking that is the norm.
I'm just gonna make this myself. I'll need cardboard, lots of paints, and what else? Do you have a list?

Model train stuff, even more so than wargaming, is a pit into which you can funnel literally any amount of money, no matter how many lotteries you win.

You can do a lot on a budget, even a shoestring one!

You should perhaps start by planning a rough outline though - how much space do you want to fill with your town, how big do you want things?

You should all check out the latest photos on the Perry facebook, like right now.

No. With my semi-potato skills I would propably cut myself.

>how much space do you want to fill with your town, how big do you want things?
I've got a big table that's about 7x7 feet. I want the building to maybe be, I don't know, 1mm to a yard?
Also, maybe I should get into this after I'm out of school and have a career, because this is expensive.
But I want to make my first one now, at least.

>7x7
*7x4

start small m8.

like try creating something like a small village with a few surrounding farms instead of going all in.

Heh. Was gonna say, you're not a wargamer so you may be fine, but wargamers tend to have to consider playability, and a 4' wide table is OK but 6' is pushing it, considering the girth of many wargamers. And age. Bad backs, you know. Hard to reach that far, then you've got trouble actually seeing the blasted things...

ahem

I mean.

Maybe do a small segment first, a village crossroads or something? Stick it on a 2x2 board - if you want flat and light, you can pick up an artist's canvas for a couple of quid, already mounted on a wooden frame and primed. You can then transfer elements to a larger board, or plonk the whole thing down as a subassembly. It'll give you something to practice weird techniques on, and as an added bonus (especially if you go smaller and do a 1'x1' tiny street thing) you can display somewhere where it'll inspire you to keep going, rather than a big board you have to go into another room to look at, that oppresses you with its bareness.

>1mm to a yard
So thats roughly 2mm scale. The buildings for that scale are tiny and much cheaper

picoarmor.com/pico-products.cfm?id=242&m=6&p=PicoTerrain - Brigade Models

Okay, I'll get a 2x2 foot slab, get whatever Hobbylobby might have as grass and roads, and start that soon. I'll post again within the next few days with hat I have, and after that I'll start really making the town. Thanks, guys, and thanks to /toy/ and /diy/, too.
I hope to find this as a great life-time hobby.

Oh, that is much cheaper!
I can afford that.

Picoarmor/Oddzial Osmy is 1:600, 3mm, but as in all things that's an approximation. 1:900 would be more like 2mm, not much for that, but some games use it - Aeronef, for instance.

brigademodels.co.uk/SmallScaleScenery/index.html

You may notice their 1:1200 stuff is sold by picoarmor for use in 3mm games. This is because scale is wibbly and wobbly, and it's really all about making things look good rather than extreme accuracy.

That's why I'd personally go the monopoly-style route, possibly literally - dig through charity shops for old copies of monopoly you can raid for buildings and slap some basic paint on 'em.

Nah, make your own, at least to start with. It'll be more fun, and you can decide what you enjoy most - do you want to make every window look good with its own shutters and frame, or do you prefer figuring out landscaping?

>I hope to find this as a great life-time hobby.
Hopefully.

Youre an idiot, he linked to the fucking birgade miniatures section. Which ONLY does 2mm buildings. Blind fucking faggot

Who crapped in your cereal, my good man?

Right - I just skimmed the link and saw it was picoarmor, who I know almost entirely for their o8.

Sorry for the confusion!

Its been too long since she has been on my table....

my Precious........

Reposting from the last thread; updated version of Clay-Kickers with a couple of extra items and re-worked objective markers.

rkstudiostore.co.uk/#!bolt-action/ywt4v

If anyone wants to grab Bolt Action for literally a penny, go for it quickly.

Thanks, too bad the shipping costs still make it 10£. Still cheap though.

>rkstudiostore.co.uk/#!bolt-action/ywt4v
£5.00 for delivery to England...

...nah.

its only the quick rules from the starter box i think.
not worth it.

Amazon had the real rules (ebook) for like 2gbp during one of the last sales btw, and since the new edition is soon to come they will sell the 1st ed book very cheap soon again.

I'm not a bong, mainland europe.

If it's not worth it for a single penny...ah well.

And I don't really give a shit about 2nd ed - have my rulebook, (so far) two army books, and the mentality of a historical gamer (a.k.a. new edition doesn't mean throwing out my shit just because it's new, thankfully when I was playing Warhammer GW supported me in this too - Bretonnia represent).

>If it's not worth it for a single penny...ah well.

+ shipping and the ebooks are for free in the OP so yeah, i really wouldn't bother.

I'm sorry to hear that.

>srsly though, can we all pretend that referendum didn't happen and get on with our lives?

>And I don't really give a shit about 2nd ed

You don't have to... but you can acknowledge the fact that there will be huge discounts on the current rules soon.

You can buy something else too, instantly justifying shipping cost desu. And sadly the BA book in OP is a rather awful scan IIRC.

Aye, but I guess not THAT huge.

>And sadly the BA book in OP is a rather awful scan IIRC.

I don't know, i got mine from last summer when they gave it out for free if you ordered a box of plastic soldiers or the other way around.. free box if you bought the book.

>You can buy something else too, instantly justifying shipping cost desu

True, if you want/need some stuff anyway its a good opportunity i guess.

Since the book is going to be obsolete i absolutely expect them to give these away next to for free.

> Currently we only ship to the UK

and fuck you too britbongs

because its so hard to write a different country in the destination field on the box.. wtf is wrong with them.

Its because the Pound is so low atm compared to the Euro.

If i would order from them (lets say the soviet command blister) i would save 1€ compared to my usual shopping place (which gives 14% off on Bolt Action stuff). Before the whole Brexit thing, british shops always were like 1-2€ more expensive.

Since I pay in HUF for everything, and GBP went from 420 to 390 in a week...I'm kinda enjoying the situation.

yeah, i wish i had as much money right now as i had last year for hobby stuff. But its still nice to save a few bucks here and there for orders from GB.

>tfw live in bongland
at least I pretty much exclusively buy from UK companies, so I'm not affected at all.

because all relevant wargaming companies are from gb anyway ;_;

the only ones i know from elsewhere are vallejo, AK and Mig (paints) and greenstuffworld (all spain).

Something else entirely:
Does anyone in here play 5 men (in kursk) regularly?

Where are these stands from?

I wanna say Wings of War/Glory

Neat, looking for stuff I can use for Birds of Prey.

What does Veeky Forums think about Deus Vult? The war store is having some kind of sale on Fireforge games figures so I picked up 6 boxes of their figures for use in Osprey's Lion Rampant.

If you're making really tiny buildings, consider just getting a strip of vassal of or balsa. Cut a 1-2cm block off the end and bevel to top for a roof. Just paint the doors, windosills etc since at that scale they will be pretty much flat.

Free 1/285 scale buildings here: ghqmodels.com/pages/military/freestuff.asp could probably print at reduced size for smaller scale

I ordered some stuff last week to take advantage of the weak pound. Foreign sales are probably up but I hope it doesn't put any British manufactures out of business due to more expensive matierials costs.

"Vassal of" is autocorrect's version of basswood

make sure to give us an AAR

asian-user with a serious but possibly stupid sounding question.

How much of Europe is covered in hedgerow? Is it a natural formation? it looks too random to be man-made, but too purposeful to me natural. In any-case it makes for good war-gaming terrain. thank you based europe

Whilst not always a major feature historically, and not really as present the more eastwards you go, hedges are massively common as boarders for gardens, fields, roads, basically anything you could stick a fence around a hedgerow could have been placed. And they're very much man-made additions.

It's man-made by planting hedges + trees and piling rocks at the edges of fields then letting it all grow up and entangle together over long period of time. It was only really abundant in northwest France.

Get google earth, it's a pretty handy resource.
If you look around Caen, it looks like most of the fields today don't have hedgerow. Can any French anons comment. Was the hedgerow mostly torn down since the war?

but of course. gonna video record the playthrough. but I think everyone here is more interested in just a written AAR

>Was the hedgerow mostly torn down since the war?
The notorious bocage mostly no longer exists, yeah.

Hedgerows are what you get when you farm - you clear a field of rocks by carrying them to the edge, over time that forms a small wall, then it builds up, meanwhile shit's growing, and a hundred or a thousand years later you have some ridiculous hedges.

>It was only really abundant in northwest France.
There's plenty in the UK, but France had the really heavy stuff with enough rocks and shit to argue with angry tanks.

Just google street view in some random places in france.

Pic was the first place I chose, so hedgerow type terrain definitely still exists.

This kind of terrain went on for a good 200m in this area. hedgerow leading into an open field. no wonder it was a nightmare for tanks, spend a few minutes trying to get through a hedgerow, by which time the enemy in the open field beyond knows exactly where you're coming through (hans! what's all zat revving and cracking branches sound? aim ze Pak over zere!) and has a clear line of sight to the hedge across the open terrain.

Quick request for naval wargaming types. I've been playing GQ3 and GQ3:Fleet Action Imminent (ie, WW2 and WW1) for a year or so now, and I'm coming to the conclusion that there's a gap in the various naval wargaming rulesets.

You have Harpoon and Seekreig for your real rivet-counter types. You have stuff like Victory at Sea and GQ for varying levels of "quick-play" stuff. My issue is that games which make warships feel like actual WARSHIPS is all really super-dense and slow-playing, while the stuff that's (to use a loaded term) "playable" doesn't feel like you're driving a warship with a ton of systems. GQ and VAS (and a TON more naval games) treat their warships as basically big blobs of health, with some lip service thrown in for the occasional system getting damaged (GQ3 more so than VAS).

What I *want* out of a naval wargame is something suitable for playing squadron-sized actions with capital ships (max of 4 ships/side with only 2 players), and that is both relatively easy to play AND gives the feeling of a giant ship slowly losing systems as it takes damage. On top of that, I'd like a ship construction system so players can build their own ships, because while it's ahistorical as fuck, damn if that's not something that's really kept games like BattleTech going for 30 years.

Clearly, I have to write such a monster myself, and lo! I've got a very - VERY - basic draft of the core gunfire combat mechanics and the construction rules system (including trying to build IRL ships with it). Would anyone care to share some thoughts on whether the gist of the attached PDF seems both relatively easy to play AND gives the right "feel"? Intention is to be less complex than Seekreig V, but more immersive than VAS.

I can do a fast, step-by-step gunfire combat example if it'd help.

>I can do a fast, step-by-step gunfire combat example if it'd help.

Actually, screw it. I'll just do one.

USS Arizona is engaging HMS Iron Duke at 12000 yards (direct fire) in the foggy, choppy (moderate), north sea. The Arizona's radar-guided main battery of 12, 14" guns each have a base to-hit number of 9 due to their fire direction system. The sea condition imposes a -1 penalty on the attack, while the range (over 10k yards) imposes a -1 penalty. The Iron Duke is sailing along the coast of Denmark and is shrouded in the dark coastal outline (just like it was at Jutland), and it's hidden in the fog. However, because the Arizona's attacks are radar-guided, it ignores both the light conditions and the fog. Its 12 Main Battery attacks, therefore, hit on a 7 or less.

The Arizona rolls 12d20 and scores 3 hits, on a 5, 4, and 2. Picking up each of these dice, we roll them to see where on the Iron Duke they hit. Locations 5, 6, and 12 are struck. The Iron Duke is a 5-Turret Superfiring ship, and therefore, is struck on the Forward Superfiring Turret, Command Space, and Amidships (secondary Battery). Because this is Direct Fire, we use the Iron Duke's main armor belt, which stretches the length of the ship so all locations are defended.

The Iron Duke's belt is rated to 13". The guns are 14". 14-13 = 1. Each d20 is rolled again for penetration; scoring (respectively) a 1, 14, and 16. The Forward Superfiring Turret suffers a critical hit. Looking at the Turret critical hit table, we roll 2d6, getting a 9. At the beginning of next turn, one of that Turret's guns will no longer be functional.

Additionally, each 14" gun hit does 7 points (14/2) to the Iron Duke's total of 250 (25,000/100) Damage Points. The Iron Duke now has 229 Damage Points remaining before it is knocked out of action.

Meanwhile the Iron Duke returns fire with its 10, 13.5" guns. The seas are still choppy and foggy, and the Iron Duke's coincidental rangefinder has a base to-hit of 7, modified down to 6 because the Iron Duke is traveling above 20 knots. Weather conditions and range modify it further down to a to-hit on a 3.

10d20 later, and two guns hit on 2s. Each of those hit dice is rerolled for location, scoring hits on the Bow (1) and 15 (aft turret). The Arizona has an armor belt rated to 14", but crucially has saved weight by electing for an all-or-nothing scheme, which only covers locations 5-15 on the to-hit chart. All other locations count their armor belt as 10" less, which means the aft turret will suffer a critical hit on a 1 (14-14 = 0, round up to 1), but the bow will suffer a critical hit on a 10 or less (14-4 = 10). The aft turret takes no critical hit, but the bow does. A critical hit roll of 7 means the full gun diameter is dealt to the Arizona's Damage Points instead of only half.

At the end of firing, the Arizona takes 7 Damage points from the Turret hit, and 14 (13.5" rounded up) from the critical hit. It, too, subtracts 21 points of Damage from its 295-point Damage Track, leaving 274 points.

sounds pretty decent user. I always like systems where you can build your own vessels.

You'd probably want to stat out all the ships at some stage though... no small task

>You'd probably want to stat out all the ships at some stage though... no small task

No kidding. The rough intent is to be able to model pretty much any given capital (gun)ship from 1880-ish up through 1945. That's both a ton of ships, and a ton of variations and quirks I have to figure out. For example, I don't have an option for a tumblehome hull yet, and that was a very common option, especially pre-1910. I don't have squadron rules, which is tremendously useful, nor do I have aircraft/anti-aircraft stuff yet.

This is intended to present *just* enough info to do some concept testing and review to see if the overall concept is even sound. It's immensely complex; even just limiting it to capital ships. I'd probably include cruisers and destroyers eventually, but not CVs. In my experience, too many aircraft make things un-fun if you just want to play with, well, gratuitous battlewagons.