Pathfinder General /pfg/

>They are both performers and killers. Murderclowns, if you would.

I feel like you could really build on this, with an entire undead carnival. You could even roll to see what hex it's in from day to day, so even you don't know when the party might stumble across it.

LLLLLLET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

WHICH KINETICIST WILL TAKE HOME THE TROPHIES OF "MOST FUN", "MOST INNOVATIVE", AND "MOST POWERFUL" ARCHETYPES!? LET'S HEAR IT FOR OUR CONTESTAAAAAAAAANNNTTTTTSSSSSSS!!!!

docs.google.com/document/d/19mnwMU_YslGOhDOg6TUbUFnGu8q5-NWHInQS4s6B0M4/edit#

docs.google.com/document/d/1D48HgJak98GEWM_CbTCKk_vhhv0qOPGADF2iC_jvsf0/edit#

They both stack with Avant Guard, but not each other, so let that help determine your debates and brainstorming.
Good luck to both competitors.

'Powerful' is not necessarily a feature you want. Incantatrix was powerful and that demon should have never seen the light of day.

The Crusader's Shield's hand bind is an excellent defensive ability, I must admit, but it seems to be lacking critical wording. What is the nature in which the wall is shaped on the battle grid? Is it possible to prevent an enemy from moving away from you, or is it impossible to do so due to the wall's positioning? If the former, is an enemy entitled to a Reflex saving throw as would be standard for Wall spells?

I cannot see the Cincture of the Dragon being particularly useful until at least 16th-level.

>Not if they're taking damage at a high rate, facing a high AC enemy, etc.
The enemy's AC would have to be stupendously high for their usual two-weapon full attack to be the worse option, especially if they have already invested in improving it.

>For example, if like most thrown TWF, I picked up a blinkback belt, then my thrown weapons automatically sheathe themselves.
A Blinkback Belt is a wasted 5,000 gp for a Desire (Avarice) daevic who already has Returning and Calling on all weapons. You are effectively spending 5,000 gp just to be able to attack with a Crimson Totem in narrow situations.

The daevic has already lowered their offensive capacities by using a Crimson Totem rather than, say, a greatsword. They are that much less of a threat offensively. They also need to invest in Combat Reflexes if they wish to be able to bull rush-"pounce" and make other attacks of opportunity in the same round.

I want the game to have a mostly serious feel, like the film (at least how I remember it). Also I need some ghoulish stuff since it is ghoulish territory.

Crusader shield is
Pick a direction
there is a wall there between the squares
you cannot move while the wall is in place

>The daevic has already lowered their offensive capacities by using a Crimson Totem rather than, say, a greatsword.

Except for the fact that they don't have to pay to enhance the CT, the greatsword doesn't heal them (except in some extremely rare or specific circumstance), and they died two turns ago because they were a STR based glass cannon theorycrafted by someone who's never actually played the game with a real group of people. The CT saves significant wealth by not needing to be enhanced like the greatsword, which means you have more wealth for consumables, gives capabilities you can't purchase, and it can't be taken from you since it will always reform.

>Mostly serious

I feel like we may remember that movie differently. Perhaps a Herbert West-style scientist who believes that ghoulification represents some great research opportunity?

A good thing to spend money on is the essence enhancer items. Daevics especially love those since they are so low on essence.

>The Crusader's Shield's hand bind is an excellent defensive ability, I must admit, but it seems to be lacking critical wording

Pretty sure it's a reading comprehension thing. Is English a second language for you? The wall extends out from the edges of your shield, allowing you to create a plane extending along the chosen axis.

Go eat glass, nobody wants to join your bait thread.

Have you ever read "Something Wicked This Way Comes"? Carnivals can be serious and creepy as hell. Cirque du Freak is another one that makes that point, though it's aimed at a little bit younger crowd.

For the sake of my argument with you from a previous thread, I have pieced together a 7th-level Wrath (Justice) daevic using only Paizo and Dreamscarred Press material.

Wrath (Justice) is not my preferred type of daevic by any means; I much prefer Desire (Love) for the cohort, Wrath (Vengeance) for the much greater damage output, or the axiomite veilweaver archetype for crafting and non-wasted usage of the Crimson Totem veil. Still, here I am with a Wrath (Justice) build to establish a benchmark.

Level: 7th
Race: Oggr
Class: Daevic
Passion: Wrath (justice)
Ability Scores (25 point buy): Strength 17+2+1+2, Dexterity 14-2, Constitution 12+2, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 14+2
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Extra Essence, Vital Strike (bonus), Greater Bull Rush
Equipment: Akashic catalysts +1 (8,000 gp), belt of giant strength +2 (4,000 gp), headband of alluring charisma +2 (4,000 gp), +1 plate armor (2,650 gp), Large +1 greatsword (2,400 gp), cloak/corset of resistance +1 (1,000 gp), 1,450 gp remaining

5 essence total, preferred veils at the start of a typical combat day:
Passion veils (2 essence): Armbands of the Irked Elephant (bind), Daevic Aspect
Non-passion veils: Armory of the Conqueror (2 essence), Tauric Brace (1 essence and bind)

AC: 10 base + 1 Dexterity modifier + 2 natural + 9 plate armor + 1 enhancement + 2 shield from Armbands = 25

Total CMB for charging bull rush: 7 BAB + 6 Strength modifier + 1 Powerful Build + 2 Improved Bull Rush + 2 Greater Bull Rush + 2 Wrath + 2 Tauric Brace with essence + 2 charge = +24, or 95% success rate against CR 7 enemy with average CMD 26.1

Armbands of the Irked Elephant: +15 attack bonus, 1d6+9 damage
Vital Strike: +14 attack bonus, 6d6+9 damage plus 6d6 damage
Average CR 7 monster durability: AC 19.7, hit points 81.9.

If you were to review the two, what would you say about them user?

In an absolute best-case scenario, this character does not go particularly high in initiative. The daevic's allies go ahead of them and engage a CR 7-10 monster in melee, perhaps attacking it themselves. On the daevic's turn, they charge and bull rush the monster with a 95% success rate, triggering an Armbands of the Irked Elephant attack and a Vital Strike attack of opportunity to boot. If that is not enough to fell the CR 7-10 monster, the daevics' allies attacks of opportunity from Greater Bull Rush hopefully will.

This character is unfortunately stuck somewhere in tier 4. They can only really employ one or two tactics in combat. They can change around their veils at the start of each day, but doing so will compromise their combat prowess. On top of all this, they pack nowhere near as much offensive punch as an optimized warder (zweihander sentinel), who would outclass this character in nearly every respect.

In that case, it could not actually prevent an enemy from moving away from the daevic, could it?

Why did you go with Oggr? It's not exactly likely to be allowed by the DM.

It is from a Dreamscarred Press product just like Akashic Mysteries and Path of War. It fits the build's needs.

Did you seriously purchase a 17 str at level 1? Also why are you 25 point buy?

>Establish a Benchmark
For what? Something that would never see a table?

Sorry, I don't buy books about weird fetishes. Pick a race that's not from Gareth's "Buckfutt: A book of stupid races from a guy who thought he could write for Pathfinder without actually playing it". Seriously though, how anyone can fucking talk shit about how crappy Augunas's Ultimate Fucking Ripoff book was while still sucking Gareth's cock over that abortion of a book is beyond me.

>Also why are you 25 point buy?

That's one of Paizo's listed point buys. It's not like it's a weird amount.

Well a wall thats 20 ft wide would definitely make it very difficult to move PAST the Daevic in question.

>In that case, it could not actually prevent an enemy from moving away from the daevic, could it?

Are you proposing that the wizard this daevic is protecting is trying to set up a flank with the daevic? I didn't realize we were assuming all the player's had severe head injuries. It prevents the enemy from moving AROUND the daevic. Because only stupid ass autists who've never played PF build a wall with their allies on the wrong side of it.

Yeah, doesn't mean it's a likely allowed DM option. Just make an Aasimar, Tiefling, Sobek, Human, or something.

20 point buy is generally the average point buy assumed for most games, so for a "benchmark build" that would be the point buy to use.

All of my games are at 25 PB or even sometimes 30, because 20 and 15 are hilariously-low if someone wants to play a Fighter, Barbarian, or UnRogue. Which many of my players want. I also play Gestalt.

In addition, if you're a martial you're going to put a 16 or 17 into Strength or Dexterity, or else Wizard and Druid fuckfaces over there will laugh at you harder than they already do. But you'd know that if you actually played the game.

Kill yourself.

>change type to Fey (Shapeshifter)
>True form is ordinary fox, have a human and human with ears+tail form
>live long lives because they're little fey pieces of shit
>their dancing lights SLA is at-will because it's a goddamn cantrip

Boom, done.

>Because only stupid ass autists who've never played PF build a wall with their allies on the wrong side of it.

He's clearly trying to trap the enemy in with him, with his allies on the other side and thus safe. It makes sense.

>Did you seriously purchase a 17 str at level 1?
Yes. It does not seem unreasonable for a character starting at, say, 4th-level.

>Also why are you 25 point buy?
I see such a point buy touted from time to time. Strength/Charisma-based classes suffer dramatically under 20 point buy.

What races would you prefer to use instead, then?

Assuming 2 points of essence are placed into the veil, that makes for a 20-foot-long wall. That might block off a single passage in a dungeon, but it might not be sufficient in all combats to prevent an enemy from moving past the wall, and it certainly would not help in those unavoidable scenarios wherein an enemy has found themselves in between a daevic and a frailer party member.

>20 point buy is generally the average point buy assumed for most games, so for a "benchmark build" that would be the point buy to use.

Where is that stated? 'Standard Fantasy' is 15, not 20.

I consider spending 13/20 of my pointbuy to purchase a 17 pre-racial to be a waste.

Even paizo walked back their assertations that standard is 15. They use 20 in their suggestions, iirc.

And even the Paizo Devs have admitted that 15's too low, and APs are written with the assumption of 20 Point Buy.

That's nice but that doesn't mean it IS a waste.

Can't agree there. But then my group tends to start at level 5 or 6, so a 17 gets me an 18 without much lost thanks to the level-up stat boost.

A poll in the Paizo boards, Gareth stating that all his playtesting is 20 pb, other 3PP devs I know use 20 pb as their standard, PFS being 20 PB, everyone who I know that plays home games does 20 pb, 20 PB is suggested for Paizo modules and APs, and I could go on.

20 PB is generally considered the standard.

Then use 20, not 25.

no it's 17 pre-racial.

As in 19 at level 1, 20 at level 4.

>weaboo quickdraw possible TWFer with energy swords that can turn into lasers and a ｢Stand｣

Honestly. I don't know about power, but the Roil Dancer is my favored of the two.

The intro quote for it is also hilarious, winning it more points.

Yeah. I'd buy a 17 pre-racial to get an 18 at 4 pre-racial. It seems worthwhile.

>and it certainly would not help in those unavoidable scenarios wherein an enemy has found themselves in between a daevic and a frailer party member.

Okay, so I know you've never actually played Pathfinder before, so I have to ask, how do you see this situation occuring? The daevic can dismiss the wall as a free action and summon it as a move (occasionally immediate) action, tilting it along whatever axis he wants. You're talking about a hypothetical situation as though it's inevitable, whereas anyone who can actually look at a grid would know that that's not the case. I mean, it almost sounds like instead of actually playing the game, you spend all of your time solving improbable logic puzzles that anyone viewing the game in complete dimensions would realize are false dilemmas.

>Gareth stating that all his playtesting is 20 pb
Uh, no?

The games Gareth runs are at 25 pb.

PsyBomb uses 25 pb.

>Sobek

What book does that come from?

Does Elemental Sun stack with Elemental Focus?

Also does Elemental Focus apply to Spells/Sphere Talents?

Home games have nothing to do with game design. Gareth's explicit answer to the question of "what point buy did you assume while creating the Harbinger" was 20.

On a full caster I could agree with you. On a front liner I cannot agree with you.

Yes.

Elemental Focus (assuming PoW version) will only apply its resistance-cutting to maneuvers (because it says maneuvers), but its immunity-cutting at 10th will apply to all abilities, spells and spheres included.

>Okay, so I know you've never actually played Pathfinder before, so I have to ask, how do you see this situation occuring?

...anyone with high speed and an easy way to bypass opportunity attacks can quickly get around the frontline towards the squishies.

Seriously, have you never ended up in a situation where someone got past the front line or the party ended up being attacked from multiple directions?

It also doesn't account for the fact that the other ally has actions and abilities too. Against a flightless opponent, if that "frailer party member" is a vizier with Ditchdigger's Armlets or a wizard with create pit, they can create an obstacle to cap one side of the wall, herding the opponent to a direction of the party's choosing or forcing them to retreat and cede the advantage to the party.

>Okay, so I know you've never actually played Pathfinder before, so I have to ask, how do you see this situation occuring?

An enemy has gone before the daevic in initiative and charged past the daevic and towards one of the daevic's allies. There is now an enemy between the daevic and the daevic's allies.

Presume, for a moment, that the daevic does not have Defensive Strategist.

Setting that aside, the Crusader's Shield still lacks critical wording on how it can be tilted, and what happens to enemies located in squares where the wall forms. Wall of _______ spells tend to have wording on the latter, and Wall of Force even bans it outright.

Akashic Mysteries.

Race of Aligator people
+2 str +2 cha -2 wis
-Has a Bite that can have essence invested for enhancement bonus
-racial swim speed
-racial bonus to stealth in aquatic and swamp enviros that gains +2 per esseence
racial +1 essence
-when enemies flank him he can make an AoO against the flanking target to do secondary natural attack damage and has the trip quality like a wolf bite.

PsyBomb is DSP's secondary akashic expert and he uses 25pb.

We're talking about Crusader's Shield, which creates a wall the wielder can manipulate on command which blocks movement and attacks. 2hu is talking as thoughthere's some inevitable situation where this wall that is completely under the wielder's control is erected between him and the person he's supposed to protect, but the wall can be dismissed and reshaped at will. Oh no! The enemy ran around the edge of the wall! 5 foot step and pivot, now he's on the wrong side of the wall again. Depending on positioning, I probably even smacked the enemy around before I put the wall back up.

Does he use 25 point buy in home games or as the assumption when designing classes?

I know that Gareth, and Elric said that they use 20 point buy. Ssalarn also uses 20, but I have no link proof.

If Psybomb uses 25 point buy then that's them breaking the norm. Other companies use 20, not 25 .

paizo.com/threads/rzs2rirm&page=2?Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War#55

paizo.com/threads/rzs2rirm&page=2?Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-Path-of-War#57

Base game assumption is 15. This is what the APs are designed around, as confirmed by JJ many times. Most people actually play at 20, as it's the PFS standard and is more forgiving to newer players and MAD classes. 25 is "High Fantasy" and is considered to be on the upper end of what the game assumes a player will start with. DSP is full of power-gaming weebs, so it's not terribly surprising they play with a 25 point buy. One has to assume every NPC in the games that actually get played by them has an 18 Con, and that's why they thought the damage numbers for PW were actually balanced.

It's placed in the space between boxes, so no enemies are located on the wall.

Also the Daevic can just walk next to the enemy and place a wall protecting his ally. The wall grows with essence investment, so you can expect walls to get as big as 40-60 ft in a real game depending on investment.

>The veilweaver cannot move while this wall is shaped, but may dismiss it as a free action.

The wording of the veil is quite unclear on just how the wall may be repositioned, if it can be repositioned at all given that the daevic cannot move while the wall is in existence.

>real games
>getting to level 12

They claim that they used 20 pb as the balance point here What they use in home games for fun may be 25, but they used 20 when designing these classes.

It is the Pathfinder Industry Standard that classes and adventure paths are designed around the 20 Point-Buy, with wiggle room for extra or lessened abilities (15 and 25). Paizo does it, DSP does it, DDS does it, Rogue Genius does it, Legendary does it, Purple Duck does it.

Ghoul tunnels. Remember, they have a burrow speed.

10 ft base
+5 per essence

Player has +1 essence item
Enhanced Capacity feat

Character level 6 so 4 essence for a total of 30 ft

.....Were you guys aware you can put more than one spell on a single scroll? This whole time, I've been putting each spell on its own scroll and having to deal with pulling them out as I needed them, instead of having an uberscroll to-hand.

That's not really '40-60ft'

... Wait, you can? Link to that? That seems highly suspicious, especially since a scroll is destroyed upon-use.

Anyway, the point of all this was to say that a 25 PB Oggr character was outside the norm for a benchmark.

Benchmarks are created using what's considered bog standard for character creation rules. So in this case the most appropriate races are human, anything from Akashic Mysteries (since we're talking about an AM character), and possibly Assimar/Tiefling because they are so commonly played.

Point buy would be 20 because that's generally bog standard.

TL;DR don't use a corner case to establish a benchmark.

>Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8-1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each additional spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather.

Scrolls aren't destroyed on use, the spell read vanishes, but the parchment remains.

...If that is actually a thing, then no, I wasn't. Guess I'll have to double-check that now.

>So in this case the most appropriate races are human, anything from Akashic Mysteries (since we're talking about an AM character), and possibly Assimar/Tiefling because they are so commonly played.

...how the hell is that considered bog standard?

Well I'm not level 12 am I? by 12 I'd have 6 essence invested for a 40 ft wall.

Of course level 12 is the final level for most of my games. Before 12 at most I'd hit 5 essence for a 35 ft wall.

Core Races, Akashic Races, Skinwalkers, and the Featured and Uncommon races I would say, since there are people who play Vanaras, Dhampirs, Tieflings, Gnomes, and the like.

No, it isn't. The wall is a plane you can set up in any direction you can draw a fucking line. And you can dismiss the wall as a free action and set up in any new orientation you want as a move or immediate action. You keep babbling about shit that isn't true and creating false dilemmas when the reality is you've been shitting on this book for so long you can't come up with a good reason for why when someone who actually took the time to play Pathfinder and read Akashic Mysteries asks you to justify your shitposting. What a pathetic miserable fuck.

>It's placed in the space between boxes, so no enemies are located on the wall.
I see. It is much like a Wall of Force, then.

>Also the Daevic can just walk next to the enemy and place a wall protecting his ally.
That will have to come from immediate action daily uses. It could indeed be useful nevertheless.

>The wall grows with essence investment, so you can expect walls to get as big as 40-60 ft in a real game depending on investment.
40 feet would require 6 points of essence, which is a hefty, late-game investment.

It is a good veil with interesting tactics associated with it; the daevic has to position the wall in such a way that the enemy is stifled while the daevic and the daevic's allies are not. It could still use clearer wording on whether or not the veil can be moved or tilted around, which is critically important.

>Anyway, the point of all this was to say that a 25 PB Oggr character was outside the norm for a benchmark.

No, it was to say that the character still wound up tier 4-ish by Dreamscarred Press standards despite optimization efforts. That was my conclusion in .

Human- needs no explanation

Races from book class is from- The races were designed with the classes to be used with them, so they are standard.

Tieflings/Aasimars- This is probably just a thing from the players in my area. You're right, they probably shouldn't be bog standard.

Wow, yep, this is absolutely a real thing, straight from Core.

>The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll as the spell is cast.

Meaning the other spells remain unharmed.

>The wall is a plane you can set up in any direction you can draw a fucking line.
I was never arguing against this.

>And you can dismiss the wall as a free action and set up in any new orientation you want as a move or immediate action.
This is dismissing and reforming the wall, which is quite different from simply tilting the shield around to reorient it.

And you don't consider other CORE BOOK races to be standard unless they are humans?

>Optimize a character purely to do damage
>Spend none of your daily changeable class features for veils that have non-combat uses
>Call it tier 4

So by your logic a Wizard who prepared only blasting spells in all his slots is tier 4 isn't he?

I guess they are too.

Is Oggr a core rule book race?

Commoner pit fiends and all that. The fact that svirfneblin make awesome rogues doesn't really have any bearing on how good or bad the rogue is, it just speaks to the strengths of the svirfneblin and inhibits meaningful comparisons since now the only thing you can compare it to is a class used by a race with as many abilities as the svirfneblin.
You could probably make a reasonable comparison between that oggr and a solhofaat though, since I think they're about the same strength as far as races go. The oggr is probably a bit more powerful, but the solhofaat can crank his Con ridiculously high which should help.

The problem with such a daevic is that by allocating veils to noncombat purposes, they are lowering their combat prowess.

A daevic has a middling number of veils and a fairly low amount of essence to work with.

At 7th-level, 2+2 veils and 3 essence (5 with Extra Essence) is really quite anemic.

Nope! It's one of Gareth's fetish races, apparently something that happens when a troll wanders into a multi-racial orgy or some shit.

Essence is multiplied for the daevic, since each point in his passion is channeled to all passion veils. At 7th level, this means the essence in his passion is doubled, putting him at 7 effective essence, not 5.
Someone who'd actually played the class would probably know that.

A Daevic doesn't have enough essence to keep all their essence receptacles full at the same time. Grabbing 1-2 non-combat veils even on combat days is fine since you wouldn't have the essence to use them in combat anyway.

Alternatively have the 1-2 extra veils be combat veils for alternative forms of combat so you have a fallback option.

>Vital Strike: +14 attack bonus, 6d6+9 damage plus 6d6 damage

Also, I had forgotten to include the bonus damage from Daevic Aspect here. That should be 6d6+13 damage plus 6d6 damage.

I had already taken into account essence being multiplied by passion in the build in .

The issue is that that is still not enough to leave room for noncombat utility. That character needs the Armbands of the Irked Elephant and the Daevic Aspect for defense and damage, the Armory of the Conqueror for damage, and the Tauric Brace for bull rushing.

If the character sacrifices any one of those four veils, a cornerstone of their offensive output is taken away. Even with all four veils in place, they still cannot compete with a warder (zweihander sentinel).

>since you wouldn't have the essence to use them all simultaneously in combat anyway.

Fixed that. I agree in principle though. Daevic has full BAB, heavy armor, solid class features outside veilweaving, and has nearly as much veilweaving power as the other veilweavers, even if it is on a more narrow list. He can easily afford to dedicate that power to abilities that allow him to function at a reasonable Tier 3 level while still kicking ass in combat. 2hu's argument is essentially "I'm so obsessed with dealing the maximum amount of damage possible, regardless of whether or not doing so is efficient or effective, that I lock out other options, and therefore my own autism prevents me from building a well-rounded character".

>Even with all four veils in place, they still cannot compete with a warder (zweihander sentinel).

>>The only possible point of comparison I can use to try and make my point is Elric's OP fetish archetype that deals more damage than most options from a book whose sole purpose was making martials deal more damage when they already had the highest single target damage output in the game.

Point made, good night.

Why is this thread so hostile?

Oh look it's the same kind of fuckstain who thought ToB was OP and they're complaining PoW is OP. Who knew?

A low/mid-level warder (zweihander sentinel) has significantly more offensive output than an equal-level daevic due to the raw power of maneuvers, and can actually defend the party well thanks to various defense-oriented class features. They have reasonably strong noncombat utility thanks to either high Intelligence, or, in the case of an ordained defender, the potential to take the Conversion inquisition.

A low/mid-level daevic under what is, as you say, a supposedly overpowered race struggles to compete with a warder (zweihander sentinel) even when they dedicate all of their veils to combat.

Yeah, even my damage focused character nabbed Sentinel Helmet since it's incredibly useful outside combat. As you level and gain more veils you'd be able to dedicate more to out of combat options

First off, why are you still using your shit non-benchmark character? We already know it isn't a benchmark and thus has no actual bearing on any of this discussion.

Second
>If the character sacrifices any one of those four veils, a cornerstone of their offensive output is taken away

Is factually untrue. Your offensive outputs cornerstone is based on a bullrush+VS combo, so only Tauric's brace and Armory of the conqueror are part of that cornerstone. Armbands of the irked elephant are a passion veil, so nab that.

Daevic aspect is nice, but I wouldn't call it a cornerstone at all. It adds just the tiniest bit of damage and would be better off replaced with another veil to either cover a weakpoint or handle non-combat situations.

Heck if you have any idea what you are fighting during the day you can respecialize yourself completely.

"oh we're fighting an elite band of ogres/flying foes/or other shit that is hard to bull rush? Well then maybe I don't need Tauric Brace+irked elephant today"

Because people are tired of 2hu's shitposting and ignorance-coated autism, and it's finally been revealed that the man behind the curtain was a whiny little bitch who hadn't even read the book they were trashing.
The hilarious part is that Sslarn actually defended the little fox-fucker in the same breath that he shoved her balls down her throat earlier today.

I wouldn't ever let a Path of War base class touch my table again after my last campaign. Just tool up a Myrmidon Fighter or Silver Gauntlet Monk.

Because people are arguing with 2hu and being dicks about it with repeated 'It's clear you've never played the game'.

It's like watching two walls in an argument.