Pathfinder General /pfg/

Also you can get an artifact which is kind of neat, although it's a bitch to corrupt it from this

Now for some monsters.

It's in Dragons Revisited, the citations are on the page for Blue Dragons.

Actually, I think they were just trying to ERP with you because Sorcerers and Sorceresses are really "up there" in terms of fuckability; high charisma, loose clothes, typically young, lots of magic, you get the idea.

Are we supposed to believe that a low-level paladin has gone from "dead" to "solar paladin 5" over the course of just a few in-game weeks, or perhaps a month or two?

>Godclaws, many of whom worship Iomedae, discover sacred religious relic of Iomedae
>Iomedaeans get buttmad and start reclamation terrorist attacks in Cheliax
Sasuga Trumpetarians

For some reason there's a note on angel sexuality, don't really know why.

...

To be fair, it's not like the majority of adventurers don't do the exact same thing.

Paladins dump Int a lot.

Okay, this one is legitimately cool looking though. That's some fine art.

New thread so I will ask again: any thoughts on Modern Path 2.0?
Any tips?

And last and very much least, an Iomedean Troop.

Not sure, would depend on what theme I go for, but will definitely involve free rapid reload

Mami is a psyarm, and Homu is a Warsoul with Riven Hourglass

This reminds me, anyone have that "Absolutely Corrupting" pic that was posted here a while back

Literally what?

>angel sexuality
And let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Pazio doesn't know what he's doing. Pazio knows exactly what he's doing.

Could /pfg/ please help me unlock the potential of an optimized daevic? For the past several hours, I have been trying to push a 9th-level daevic into the same degree of overall combat prowess and noncombat utility as a full initiator or a half-initiator/half-caster. I have been working with a Wrath (Vengeance) daevic, which is oft-touted as the most powerful of the daevic types, even though Ssalarn has downgraded it by restricting the Forcestrike Knuckles to hand-based natural attacks.

So far, things look bleak. I can have the daevic act as an enemy-shredding glass cannon... with completely mediocre defenses and ability to handle unusual combat situations, and virtually nothing of note out of battle. I have had to dump Charisma because the daevic has low Will, with only a +2 bonus to saving throws against enchantments by 8th-level, so raising Wisdom is important for avoiding nasty save-or-lose effects. (Wayfinders are too GM-dependent.)

This leaves the character with exactly *four* useful noncombat veils. This daevic has only four veil slots, all of which are being used to contribute to the character's combat abilities. Taking away even one of those combat veils results in a drop in raw damage output (the only asset this daevic can offer). The noncombat veils are solid, but they are all just skill-increasers and a noncombat-mount-conjurer.

In other words, I am left with a glorified barbarian with less resilience than an actual barbarian, and the option to sacrifice a chunk of their sole combat specialty for improved skills and possibly a noncombat mount. Is there any way to salvage this 9th-level daevic to be on par with a full initiator or a half-initiator/half-caster, or should I consider the daevic a lost cause?

At the behest of posters in a previous thread, I am using 20 point buy and "core races plus aasimar and tiefling" for race selection.

Third party book about modern pathfinder. Got guns and stuff, and archetypes like enginners and detectives. Found out about it a few days ago and found it pretty interesting, but literally no one knows about it.
I was looking for some feedback about it before I put my players through a session.

Level: 9th
Race: Tiefling (beguiling liar, maw or claw [claw], oni-spawn, prehensile tail, scaled skin [fire])
Class: Daevic (wrath [vengeance])
Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 16+2+2+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 14+2, Charisma 7-2

Traits: Adopted (Tusked), Cunning Liar, generic Perception trait of choice, drawback of choice
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Stamina, Focused Discipline, Quick Bull Rush
• Key Equipment (25,150 of 46,000 gp spent): Pauldrons of the bull (10,000 gp), amulet of mighty fists +1 (4,000 gp), belt of giant strength +2 (4,000 gp), cracked pale green prism ioun stone (4,000 gp), +1 full plate (2,650 gp), dusty rose prism ioun stone (500 gp)

Preferred veils:
Passion veils (3 essence): Daevic Aspect, Horns of the Minotaur
Non-passion veils: Sea Drake's Talons (1 essence and bind), Whirlpool Lash
2 binds completely wasted due to nothing to spend them on
• Noncombat veils for other days: Dreamcatcher (no bind yet), Horselord's Greaves (bind available but takes up same slot as Talons), Sentinel's Helm (no bind yet and same slot as Horns), Waistband of the Wealthy (no bind yet and same slot as Whirlpool);
• Noncombat veils that might have been useful but are worthless for this daevic: Bangles of the Jealous Seductress (dumped Charisma), Collar of Skilled Instruction (not enough applicable skills), Cuirass of Confidence (dumped Charisma and plainly obvious), Essence of the Succubus (dumped Charisma), Immaculate Touch (dumped Charisma), Vestments of the Maharaja (dumped Charisma)

Initiative: 1 Dexterity modifier + 1 competence = +2

All attack and damage bonuses below assume Power Attack is used and 2 stamina spoints are spent every round on Focused Discipline:
• Bull rush CMB: 9 BAB + 6 Strength modifier + 2 Improved Bull Rush + 4 Wrath passion + 1 competence + 2 morale = +24, roll twice and take the higher result
• Natural attack bonus: 9 BAB + 6 Strength modifier + 1 enhancement + 1 competence + 2 morale - 3 Power Attack = +16, down to +11 for secondary
• Natural damage bonus: 6 Strength modifier + 1 enhancement + 2 morale + 5 insight + 6 Power Attack = +20, down to +14 for tail
• Natural attacks: Two primary claws (+16/1d4+20 average 22.5), two primary rakes (+16/1d4+20 average 22.5), one secondary gore (+11/1d6+20 average 23.5), one secondary bite (+11/1d4+14 average 16.5), one secondary tail slap (+11/1d6+14 average 16.5)

Average CR 9 monster statistics:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3
AC 22.7, CMD 31.2, HP 114.7

Let us consider a typical start-of-combat scenario. There is an enemy 15 to 40 feet away from the daevic, and the daevic would like to put an end to that enemy by charging and bull rushing them. (If the enemy is Huge or larger, the daevic is rendered impotent against it, but let us set that aside for now.) With +26 CMB while charging, The daevic has a 96% chance of succeeding at the bull rush, burning away their one attack of opportunity for the round, and full attacking the enemy.

Assuming the enemy has AC 23, we have the following average damage calculations, taking critical hits into account:
• No damage reduction: (0.75 * 22.5 * 4) + (0.5 * 23.5) + (0.5 * 16.5 * 2) = average damage 95.75, not quite enough to take out an HP 114.7 enemy on average, but still scarily effective
• Damage reduction 5: (0.75 * 17.5 * 4) + (0.5 * 18.5) + (0.5 * 11.5 * 2) = average damage 73.25
• Damage reduction 10: (0.75 * 12.5 * 4) + (0.5 * 13.5) + (0.5 * 6.5 * 2) = average damage 50.25

>modern
>d20
Modern tropes just don't work with the d20 framework. The leader of the iluminati isn't dangerous because he has 250 hp and an AC arround 40, he is dangerous because he tells people who have that what to do.

You need some system with non-linear advancement for modern worlds. Something like shadowrun or WoD.

Thus, the daevic can most certainly tear into a CR 9 opponent. If at least one other ally has attacked or will attack it, the enemy is likely to fall in short order. Not bad. Even better, if the daevic *starts* their turn adjacent to or within five-foot-step range of an enemy, they can use Quick Bull Rush to unleash two full attacks in a row! Even a CR 9 or 10 monster is sure to fall from full HP to such an onslaught.

There is not much else the daevic can do though. They have no special defenses of note, and their Will is still middling, leaving them highly susceptible to Will save-or-lose effects. They have no ability at all to respond to extraordinary circumstances, such as miss chances, terrain effects, spellcasting, or flying opponents. Damage reduction bites into their damage considerably. Enemies can disengage from them easily, since their one attack of opportunity each round goes towards triggering Wrath.

And of course, the daevic's noncombat potential will always come at a non-negligible combat cost, as established above.

Can anyone more familiar with the daevic help rectify this?

Just use Pastebin or something for fuck's sake

Cool build, thanks BUILDANON!

>posting pathfinder
>in /pfg/
Yea seriously. Start your own general or something.

Just hide the posts if they shit you that much.

I'm fine with posting pathfinder, I just wish there wasn't three giant walls of text when it could have been one concise paragraph and a pastebin. 2hu is garrulous to a huge degree.

Table of Contents: Hide
INTRODUCTION 4
CHAPTER 1: HORROR CHARACTERS 6
Playing a Horror Hero 8
Fear 10
Sanity 12
Corruption 14
Accursed 16
Deep One 18
Ghoul 20
Hellbound 22
Hive 24
Lich 26
Lycanthropy 28
Possessed 30
Promethean 32
Shadowbound 34
Vampirism 36
Race Rules 38

CHAPTER 2: ARCHETYPES AND CLASS OPTIONS 42
Alchemist 44
Barbarian 46
Cleric 48
Druid 50
Inquisitor 52
Investigator 54
Kineticist 56
Medium 58
Mesmerist 60
Occultist 62
Paladin 64
Slayer 66
Spiritualist 68
Vigilante 70
Witch 72
Wizard 74

CHAPTER 3: FEATS 76
Feat Descriptions 79

CHAPTER 4: SPELLS AND RITUALS 96
Spell Lists 98
Spells 108
Occult Rituals 132

CHAPTER 5: HORROR RULES 134
Curses 138
Horrific Diseases 146
Environments 152
Fleshwarping 164
Haunts 172
Madness 182

CHAPTER 6: RUNNING HORROR ADVENTURES 188
Rules Improvisation 206

CHAPTER 7: HORROR GEAR AND MAGIC ITEMS 210
Torture Implements 212
Alchemical Items 213
Magic Items 213
Magic Item Possession 228

CHAPTER 8: BESTIARY 230
Dread Lord 234
Hive 236
Implacable Stalker 238
Kyton, Apostle 240
Trompe l’Oeil 242
Unknown 244
Waxwork Creature 246
Simple Templates 248

HORRIFIC INSPIRATIONS 252

INDEX 254

At least they didn't go with some retarded "xe" shit.

Is the Trompe l'Oeil an art monster?

Archetypes
NAO!

What are some of /pfg/'s most forbidden memes?

Why do I prefer to use DSP's best material over their worst material?

Path of War was made by a bunch of people who have barely any experience playing 3.5 let alone Pathfinder and is lower quality than anything else DSP has made. DSP used to be auto include, until these new writers came along. Even non-Path of War stuff like Soulknife Augmented has some jank like Psychic Armory.

TL;DR it's more fun to not use all of DSP's material.

> Barely any experience playing 3.5

You're funny m80.

>Implying Gareth and Elric actually played games.

>Occultist archetypes
Oooooh....

Does Veeky Forums still keep that tier list up to date that used to be in the header?

For comparison, here is a 9th-level warder under the same character creation parameters.

Level: 9th
Race: Half-orc (fey thoughts, sacred tattoo, either burning assurance or unflinching valor)
Class: Warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel)
Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 16+2+2+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 14+2, Charisma 7-2

Traits: Fate's Favored, Mock Gladiator (lucerne hammer), Reactionary, drawback of choice
Feats: Power Attack, Furious Focus, Mighty Frame, Discipline Expertise, Martial Charge (bonus), Discipline Mastery
• Key Equipment (33,480 of 46,000 gp spent): Large +1 collision lucerne hammer (18,330 gp), belt of giant strength +2 (4,000 gp), headband of inspired wisdom +2 (4,000 gp), cracked pale green prism ioun stone (4,000 gp), +1 full plate (2,650 gp), dusty rose prism ioun stone (500 gp)

Martial Tradition: Stained Glass Champions
Disciplines: Eternal Guardian, Golden Lion, Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne, Shattered Mirror, Silver Crane
Inquisition: Conversion

Six maneuvers readied:
2nd-level: Obsidian Sidestep, Rising Zenith Strike, either replaced with Enduring Crane Strike out of combat as needed to heal self and allies
3rd-level: Intruder's End, Reflected Blade Style
4th-level: Fetch's Wrath
5th-level: Ruby Zenith Strike

Stances: Eyes of the Crane, Runner Hunter's Stance, Primal Warrior Stance, Stance of the Silver Crane

Initiative bonus: 3 Wisdom modifier + 2 trait + 1 competence = +6
Sense Motive check result with Discipline Mastery: Take 10 + 9 ranks + 3 Wisdom modifier + 3 class skill + 2 competence = 27
Furious Focus and Primal Warrior Stance damage: 6d6 lucerne hammer + 9 Strength modifier multiplied + 9 Power Attack + 1 enhancement + 5 collision = 6d6+24 (average 45)

>Playing a Warder
Not even once.

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43851312/#43858338
>Forrest
>Power Attack and Deadly Aim work with skill check maneuvers, penalizing the skill check in place of the attack roll. There were originally conflicting answers by accident (a miscommunication before we moved to a better way of handling team discussions), and on behalf of the rest of the PoW guys, sorry about that. Here's the FAQ answer on it. This one is the correct one.
Power Attack is compatible with Zenith Strikes.

giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19532605&postcount=160
>A: When making a skill check in place of an attack roll, all bonuses and penalties normally applied to the attack roll are applied to the skill check roll, including iterative attack penalties for making multiple attacks.
Charging bonuses are also applicable to Zenith Strikes.

This warder can open up combat by charging 40 feet, activating Reflected Blade Style, using an automatic 30 Sense Motive check result on a Ruby Zenith Strike, and dealing an automatic average damage of 135 to two opponents, one of which need only be within 45 feet. That is enough to take out two CR 11 opponents.

The warder is not just a one-trick pony, however. They can repeat the trick a second time to lesser effectiveness with a Rising Zenith Strike. Their warder and zweihander sentinel abilities make them an extremely durable and sticky defender, and Intruder's End lets them thrash enemies within 20 feet with very high-damage attacks of opportunity. They can teleport 190 feet with Fetch's Wrath. Their saving throws are quite high, and once per encounter, Obsidian Sidestep lets them automatically pass a single saving throw for all intents and purposes. The Mock Gladiator trait lets them take enemies alive.

>not playing a warder

Outside of combat, the warder can always take 10 on Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks and has a global +2 competence bonus to these skills as well. Their Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks are all Wisdom-based. They can gain scent from Running Hunter's Stance, and Detect Evil and "roll twice and take the higher result on all Perception checks" from Eyes of the Crane.

This 9th-level warder outclasses this 9th-level daevic by leagues. Is such a warder too competent for a tier 3 character, or is the daevic too inflexible? What do you personally think?

You've got some of the best Momiji art I've never seen before, you know that?

Literally every character I have made for the past three have been Warders, and I've yet to hit a similar concept.

Citation needed, saltfag.

>Actually letting someone play this at your table

You'd do that once and then I'd ask you to reroll.

Didn't Gareth complain about never playing games, even? I know Forrest's played and DM'd since early 3.5, and at this point he seems to be one of their few competent writers. Probably not a coincidence.

So, I haven't made any changes to the Stregone itself recently, and have been distracted with another project, but I've been trying to punch out some tweaks to archetypes so I figured maybe I should drop by for the new thread. Checked word counts for both documents, and I wonder if I should just combine the class document and the archetype document into one.
Base Class: docs.google.com/document/d/1GVTXsAAdkxpLjQFfvYzuME3lVyuhAU2chxXrK46vlbA/edit?usp=sharing
Archetypes: docs.google.com/document/d/1rstP70t2_Ljqk232Nhj_INWnIesqXTn5REnsT_0_Cpc/edit?usp=sharing

>Warbraid has been sitting untouched since its last full iteration, but I want to see what people think before I make any changes.
>Shrine Guardian is new, but I need to actually add more stuff to make it actually stand out, as right now it's only gimmick is "Dude Wis SAD lmao".
>Nobody cares, but I remembered the Soulbound Puppeteer existed and started actually getting the companion's stat progression worked out
>Put a teaser for the Kobold Dragonspitter, which is totally not inspired by that one skin, from that one character, from that one MoBA
>I might straight up delete the Gumiho, shit's pretty fucked

Feel free to drop feedback/mockery wherever! I am an idiot who should probably drop this in more threads for feedback, even if I don't make many changes at a time.

He's a grumpy Tiefling Exploited Wizard!
She's a bubbly Aasimar Destruction Cleric!
Together, they fight monsters!

Guardian from Alternate Paths Martial characters, Myrmidon Fighter specialized in one of the tanking disciplines, and Silver Gauntlet Monk are off the top of my head similar concept in that they protect your allies.

Path of War base classes are dumb as fuck.

To be fair, unlike a lot of 2hufag's builds, the half-orc OD ZweiSent is actually pretty damn bog-standard. Most warders can expect to be somewhere along those lines, since Scarlet Throne is a good discipline and ZweiSent is nearly a straight-upgrade.

Never playing online games, Gareth can only get his IRL group but they've been gaming near-constantly for almost a decade, from what I remember.

How do they get the wisdom to bluff/diplomacy/intimidate or the take 10s?

Yo, given the XP charts in the 3.0 DMG and the number of encounters players were meant to face, going from 1 to 20 takes two months, tops.

Ordained Defender gets you an Inquisitor ability, which you'd spend on Conversion.

Conversion Inquisition makes all social skills wis-based.

Charisma really tends to get the shit end of the stick for holding onto its skills, for an attribute that has no other inherent reasons not to dump it.

Fuck yeah boxing badger angel!

Thanks. I'd missed that somehow.

It's a way to have fewer stats without killing sacred cows. It would happen to Con if Con had anything to it but Fort saves and HP.

Also, you notice how more people have been talking shit about PoW now that there's no fear of reprisal from DSP reps?

When did Gareth get an IRL group?

Also yes this is one of the many reasons why Path of War is barely allowed at my table.

>reprisal
>from the people who have gone on-record saying that they got more feedback here than on GitP

Is this a decent (25 pb) array for a warlord? 5th level Half-orc Bushi focused on mithral current if it matters.

STR: 18 (+2 racial + 1 level bonus)
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

Not sure what to do about ability boosting items yet, but will probably get a Strength belt on top of this.

I talked more shit when Gareth was here and even more shit when Elric was here. When Elric lied about Mirror Soul's removal from Path of War: Expanded I fuckin pounced on him. Those fuckers did a great job at fucking DSP.

LITERALLY EVERYTHING ON CORRUPTIONS user I NEED THEM

As far as third-party sources are concerned, this build uses material primarily from Path of War and Path of War: Expanded and a single feat from Bloodforge.

If the race restriction is lifted, the character can even be a dreige or a half-giant rather than a half-orc, which would be even *more* powerful (+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity, excellent racial features) and free up a feat slot.

Even so, a 9th-level warder being able to instantaneously delete two CR 11 enemies with a 100% success rate is a bit much for a tier 3 class.

You really don't, they can NPC your character and you don't get magical bonuses to saves against them.

Agreed, full initiators are a problem. Especially Warders.

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT I CAN HOUSERULE THAT I STILL NEED IT I NEED TO BE A LICH

Sure you did sweetheart. And I'm a playboy billionaire with a 13 inch cock.

>Path of War base classes are dumb as fuck.
No they're honestly the best.

And out of all the Path of War base classes why bitch about the WARDER of all things? It's the one Path of War class that everyone agrees is great.

pls respond

How do you get that thing up? Thirteen inches is a lot of bloodflow.

You weren't here when Elric left Veeky Forums were you?

I would personally aim for:

Strength: 17 base + 2 racial + 1 level advancement + 2 belt = 22
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 10
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 16 + 2 headband = 18

Alternate Racial Traits: Fey thoughts, sacred tattoo, either burning assurance or unflinching valor
Traits: Fate's Favored, two other traits of choice
Feats: Power Attack, Furious Focus, Armor Proficiency (Heavy)
Equipment (10,500 gp): Belt of giant strength +2 (4,000 gp), headband of alluring charisma +2 (4,000 gp), masterwork full plate (1,650 gp), masterwork nodachi (360 gp), traveler's any-tool (250 gp), 240 gp remaining

This way, you can have yourself an even-numbered Strength modifier to make your static damage bonus especially high, which will complement your nodachi's 18-20 critical range. Full plate armor should give you appreciable durability.

How would a Mercenary Tao character work out in Pathfinder?

>13
Small time

Elric was a little bitchmade faggot though. A stiff breeze would knock him over.

I'm rarely fully erect. All those futa doujins are completely wrong.

isn't 12 con a bit low for a front liner?

The issue is probably more dependent on Path of War 1 disciplines than anything. Even setting aside the obvious offenders of Broken Blade maneuvers and Primal Fury maneuvers (though not necessarily their stances), Scarlet Throne's Zenith Strikes are absolutely outrageous in their ability to ensure that enemies explode.

That said, even if all Path of War 1 disciplines are traded away for other disciplines, Elemental Flux, Riven Hourglass, and Shattered Mirror can create some monstrous spikes of enemy-decimation all the same. I have a sample 5th-level build demonstrating such here: 67 average damage on two enemies is enough to take out two CR 5 or 6 enemies, which is still rather much for a 5th-level warder.

>you will never get to play as a surprisingly compassionate Aboleth
>you will never figure out a way to move about on land
>you will never use your mental powers to make sure people come to your party's birthday parties
>you will never put your antediluvian intellect to the simple task of cooking delicious meals for your friends
>you will never successfully obtain the affection and alliance of an entire surface kingdom in exchange for free reign to ply their rivers
>you will never be slightly confused when one among the mortals you have grown so fond of willingly offers you their mind

Why even play, /pfg/?

The warlord will live, especially with full plate.

Also, half-orc warlords are eligible for the following favored class bonus:
>Warlord: Gain 1/5 of a new combat feat.

I would recommend using this to acquire your choice of Martial Charge, Improved Initiative, or Discipline Focus.

What is the toughest fight they have faced together?

I suppose that makes sense, how do you feel about mithral current style? Mithral current slice feels pretty good to me but the first 2 are pretty meh.

It was apparent that there was a minimal of MATHDOING when making the warder. Holy shit.

It's a shame because I really like the idea...

You just can't actually use it because you are way too powerful. It makes the accomplishments mean less.

How would you house-rule the warder to be sane?

>reprisal
You mean DSP people posting without their trips?

>exposed thighs
what a slut

Don't let them use SU disciplines.

All of that really just condemns the PoW:E disciplines if anything else.

The worst part about it is the Scarlet Throne strikes (and skill check based maneuvers in general, really). Everything else is fine for a 9th level character.

I think that the *majority* of style feats are rubbish due to how they demand a price of a swift action at the start of combat. The first round in most battles is the most important, and that is a swift action that could be used to assume an optimal stance or to expend a boost on an overwhelming alpha strike.

Mithral Current Style is no exception to this, I think. Not only does it demand a swift action to activate, but it requires further swift actions to feint. A warlord's swift/immediate actions should be reserved for boosts, counters, and gambits.

I believe the issue is the way many disciplines are written, rather than the base classes themselves.

I have clashed with Gareth on the balance point of Reflected Blade Style before. I was convinced previously that it was balanced for its level, but now, I have great certitude that doubling action economy with a 3rd-level boost is excessive. Even under a Path of War: Expanded-only context, a 5th-level full initiator laying down a Rapid Strike and a Reflected Blade Style while in Elemental Flux Stance leads to two dead enemies.

What are your thoughts on the 5th-level, "no Path of War 1 disciplines" warder in ? I can rebuild the character into a half-orc if you so wish.

Give them at least one weakpoint for the enemy to capitalize on.

d12 hit die
Good fort and will
Int to reflex, also a feat to add shield bonus to reflex
Multiple AC bumps
And counters to boot
Great Damage
Make allies harder to attack and hit

Either gut one of their defenses so that it can be a weakpoint to target or gut the offense. Even without strong damage the Warder has the tools to keep enemies away from squishies, make his squishies harder to kill, and perform CC.

Houserule for Warder: No Zwei Sent, no strikes do bonus damage

>That destruction requirement
What IS it with Iomadae and murdering the lawful-good?

Nah, I want my Int based Full BAB initiator.

The issue with 90% of Path of War stuff is the Disciplines not the classes.

I think it's more that you need an act of great EVIL to destroy a powerful good artifact.

I doubt Iomadae had a say in that.

The one true defensive weakness a warder has is touch attacks; those will force a warder to expend attack-negating counters.

That said, is correct; the disciplines are the issue, not the base classes, and I am starting to think that it is not just the Path of War 1 disciplines that have questionable balance for tier 3 characters.

>Int based
The ordained defender is arguably a direct upgrade to the warder. It gains a new discipline for free. Wisdom helps Will, Perception, and Sense Motive. An inquisition at 3rd-level means the Conversion inquisition, which is a much more cost-efficient means of dumping Charisma yet maintaining social skills than Intelligence traits and Orator.

Why would you try to pigeonhole a class like that especially when a Warlord can half of those tricks that 2hu posted.

The fact is most people aren't going to take a SHIT ton of traditions to get maneuvers they normally wouldn't have access too. and the build is dependent on.
Warlords are way worse than fucking Warders at breaking shit. It's the fucking insane damage maneuvers get that's an issue.

At least it's not "XEEEERZHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII" like someone was trying to scream 'smeghead'...

Still feels a little forced as an explanation, like it was being explained on tiptoes.

I don't disagree with it, but it feels... it feels like it just wasn't condescending enough? Maybe it's the header with "BEYOND GENDER" and "transcend".

They're not 'beyond' anything, I just can't help but feel that after everything they've written, this deserved to sound more like a slap upside the head. It's... It's just so... inoffensive...

>Outsiders do not reproduce sexually, and even those capable of producing Aasimar with mortals must use some kind of shapeshifting to have anything worth using for the task. Trumpets, Flaming Wheels of Eyes and Spheres of light do not have genitals, and are immune to giving a flying fucks about this fact.