Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

What do you think about the implication that elune created the naaru?

Why is there some talk of characters betraying their factions in Legion? Am I missing something here....some kind of quest-line or event that has people thinking this?

Player characters or NPCs?

Because a lot of good NPCs are being fucking RUINED with legion traitor nonsense.

Like ALL of Duskwood.

It's hinted she created some, not all, for now. The implications is that she's probably the lights equivalent of a void lord, her creating a naaru prime and all.

NPCs. I know there's been a lot of fuckery, but I don't see why people are expecting racial leaders to turn rogue.

Jaina's arc seems to be gearing up to her going rogue (she already leaves her position in Kirin Tor when they vote to allow Horde PCs back in Dalaran during the Legion pre-quests), and given how she's acting there isn't much of a jump to her either siding with the Legion or unleashing some world-threathening artefact on her personal vengeance-queat against the Horde.

So she's pulling a Malygos

>a lot of good NPCs are being fucking RUINED with legion traitor nonsense.

No.
Some irrelevant NPCs are getting some screen time again.

Makes sense, Elune has always been hinted at being much more than just a wild god like the Loa.

No, it's pretty much ruining them to completely change them to demented legion cultists when things had been slowly getting better for them.

>No, it's pretty much ruining them to completely

There's nothing to ruin.
They're an irrelevant footnote.

Duskwood? What the hell is happening in Duskwood and why is it ruining the place?

Maybe if you don't care about them to begin with.
Greymaine has has plenty of development, wanting to lead his people, be more peaceful, and now he is being rewritten as a mad dog so their can be more character conflict.

Because the mayor and his guard-captain daughter have the same last name "Ebonlocke" as the badguy in the warlock green fire chain they turn evil along with all of their militia and murder almost all the civilians in Darkshire. (Watcher Ladimore turns evil too)

It's complete and utter bullshit.

The Legion have converted Darkshires guard.

>Maybe if you don't care about them to begin with.

There's really not much to care for in Darkshire.

>he is being rewritten as a mad dog

He's no mad dog. He's justifiably trying to stop the Forsaken.

IIRC, they actually listened to played feedback and had Ladimore and some of the other named NPCs remain good. It's only most of the Darkshire militia that randomly turns evil.

Which is still stupid, mind you.

I really hope she doesn't turn evil. It would be way more intrestring and powerful if she just kind of fucked off. Like she retires from the alliance and goes to live as a hermit somewhere far away.

Did they still turn the Ebonlockes? Because that's literally blizzard assuming a name that means "Black hair" makes them EBIL.

I'd also rather half the militia turn out to be shapeshifted lesser dreadlords so we can rescue the,

>that's literally blizzard assuming a name that means "Black hair" makes them EBIL.

No it's not. They turned the characters that suited their story.

>I'd also rather half the militia turn out to be shapeshifted lesser dreadlords

Yeah, demons just shouldn't corrupt anyone. Town guards should be absolute moral paragons who can't fall because that hurts your feelings.

I...actualy dont know how to feel about that. Duskwood is easily my favorite vanilla zone. And yet i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn kind of fits with the zone.

The reason why i feel Duskwood is such a great zone is because of its dark atmosphere. Everything about the zone is just kind of awful. Even its history seems to be nothing but tragedy and death. I mean, the place is pretty much unchanged in Cata. With a lot of the major villains having somehow been resurrected.

So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.

Demons don't generally do subtle corruption of non-arcanists the way the Old Gods do. They tend towards outright mind control.or "Hey, here's some sweet green koolade!" which seems unlikely to work on the Duskwood militia.

Eh, I always considered Duskwood more Nobledark, with people standing together against the night.

>It's hinted she created some, not all, for now. The implications is that she's probably the lights equivalent of a void lord, her creating a naaru prime and all.

Spiritual crisis incoming?

>her creating a naaru prime and all.

Where is THAT implied?

You are a turncoat warlock masquerading as a Horde commander shortly after the Battle of Mount Hyjal. You are trying to raise a fel-corrupted army. Besides quill boar and centaur, what other races would you unite to join your cause?

>Demons don't generally do subtle corruption of non-arcanists the way the Old Gods do
I don't have any pictures of laughing dreadlords but come on man, they litterally do that

>So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.

Exactly, Creepytown is the perfect place for demon cultists to show up.
I really didn't get the bad reaction.
People crying about how Sarah Ladimore turned evil despite the one thing of note about her was that she had a father who turned evil.
People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.

>Demons don't generally do subtle corruption

Yes they do. They always have.
Sargeras corrupted an unborn child.
Kil'jaeden began the corruption of the Orcs by appearing as Ner'zhul's dead wife.
Mal'Ganis baited Arthas across two continents.

>the way the Old Gods do.

Old Gods are way less subtle.
Fine one day
SHUB NIG N'ZOTH MUP DA DOO DIDDA PO MO GUB BIDDA BE DAT TUM MUHFUGEN BIX NOOD COF BIN DUB HO MUFUGGA the next.

Grimtotem tauren

Perhaps "Subtle" was the wrong word, I mostly mean the "Apparently vectorless" nature of old god corruption.

You have to be CONVINCED to hit the Koolaid or get outright mind controlled for the most part.
>People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.
Oh this is also dumb, I'm mad about Ysera and Cenarius too, don't get me wrong.

>Oh this is also dumb, I'm mad about Ysera and Cenarius too

You really shouldn't be mad about that is my point.
Sargeras, a titan, was corrupted.
If Titans can be corrupted then Dragons and Demi Gods can be too.

>implying we're going to kill Cenarius and not just hit him until he turns friendly like the bosses in Ulduar

His stepmom ends up pretty dead, and one of those Ulduar bosses gets re-corrupted.

Sargeras CHOSE evil for reasons that have always been part of his character, slightly changed via the BC and then Chronicle retcons, but still intrinsically part of his character.

Not because his name sounded like another villain's.

Raptors

>Sargeras CHOSE evil for reasons

What's your point?
Even beings as great as him can go evil, so anything lesser is fair game.

Murlocs obviously. Also that one evil goblin company you fight a few times. And finnaly, the druids of the fang.

Not in a sudden TWEEST, or the way Ysera was apparently just zapped by some oversized satyr with tiny legs and suddenly became nrecoverably evil
Harpies

>Sargeras corrupted an unborn child.
Technically, possessed. Mediev himself was never really corrupted, but having the Fiery Lord of the Burning Legion living inside your skull and occasionally highjacking your body kinds of tends to fuck you up. However, once he was killed and Sargeras banished, his spirit was now fully in control of his actions and was decidedly a good guy (as we see in WC3, where he comes back from the dead to warn people of the coming Legion invasion, and leads them to Kalimdor).

What realm does teeg play on?
Just hopped onto ED-US fresh and it's been going pretty smoothly thus far. The people there are nice and Veeky Forums got name-dropped once.

>and one of those Ulduar bosses gets re-corrupted.
who, Thorim? He seems pretty incompetent at staying in a useful state of mind

>Not in a sudden TWEEST

Warcraft is not some series of novels, it;s an expansion based game. There is only so long they can set things up.
But in this case it's actually been building for quite some time, seeing as Ysera and Cenarius end up corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare, which has been present since classic and has shown itself to be quite successful at corrupting beings tied to the dream.

Hodir.

>Exactly, Creepytown is the perfect place for demon cultists to show up.
I really didn't get the bad reaction.
People crying about how Sarah Ladimore turned evil despite the one thing of note about her was that she had a father who turned evil.
People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.

Ladimore turning evil is kind of unfortunate. It would have been better if she had died instead from a narrative perspective. But it does kind of work in a sad tragic irony kind of way. Like father, like daughter i suppose.

Woops. That post kind of went wrong. Sorry.

People want Metzen to keep his powdery hands off their waifus.

And part of the reaon I liked Commander Ebonlocke was how she essentially seemed like a sane, human Maiev.

There's very different flavours of "turning evil". Duskwood's troubles were Scourge-aligned undeath, rampant worgen, and the occational lone madman, all exacerbated by a lack of support from Stormwind. They've never, ever had anything to do with demons.

>They've never, ever had anything to do with demons.

And now demons are showing up a lot more, so they can get more involved with demons.

Stop blaming Metzen for Kosak's mistakes

Unless you're blaming Metzen for letting Kosak get his grubby mitts all over the story, in which case go right ahead

>Duskwood's troubles were Scourge-aligned undeath,
Not exactly, and they did get a lot of magical fallout from Karazhan

I know it's Kosak, but Kosak's not as fun to make cokehead jokes about.

They CAN, but it's still really fucking jarring when it's had nothing to do with their previous characterization. Fucking Razor Hill would have been a more sensible choice.

>Fucking Razor Hill would have been a more sensible choice.

Nope.
Stormwind needs to be involved because it's a quest with Garona and the daggers she used to assassinate the King.
Darkshire makes sense in that the people have a grudge against Stomwind for not supporting them.

no they are not.

>So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.
the only reason Darkshire got fucked up was because the alliance wasn't sending any soldiers there and jitters fucked up. that was it. The war is over, the alliance is stronger than ever, and suddenly a town that was a steadfast part of the alliance through thick and thin becomes lolcorrupt to up the stakes

>No relevance outside of an optional low level questing zone
>Some how not irrelevant

>Stormwind needs to be involved because it's a quest with Garona and the daggers she used to assassinate the King.
>Darkshire makes sense in that the people have a grudge against Stomwind for not supporting them.
And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.

It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.

A zone that made the world feel less like an amusement park/soap opera hybrid.

Why not go for Lakeshire, then? They were left to fend for themselves just as much as Darkshire was, and they at least have a history with orc warlocks and corrupted mages.

Why does anyone even pay attention to post-Cata lore?

It's all terrible, maybe there's a few things worth keeping but overall Warcraft lore is more interesting and more stable if you throw it all out the window

>if its not a big raid boss or daily questzone at max level, its irrelevant.
did you even play the game pre cata? There was an aura of decay around stormwind. The king was gone, nobles were tearing everything up, and the soldiers were firmly in their barracks.

>And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.

So what? A Stormwind guard couldn't have issues?

>It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.

That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.

>Why not go for Lakeshire, then?

Tone of the zone doesn't fit as well.
But sure, I've no issue with some bumfucks getting corrupted by a powerful otherworldly force.

Oh that would have been awesome

Give them first-war conjurers that summon scorpids. The conjurers' magic did always seem a tad suspect compared to mages we see in later games

>That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.
why would someone want to kill andy? he is a useless cuck that cripples the alliance more effortlessly than a tactical nuke on theramore.

>did you even play the game pre cata?

Yes.

>There was an aura of decay around stormwind.

Not sure what this has to do with NPCs in Darkshire not being relevant.

>Why does anyone even pay attention to post-Cata lore?
because MoP is post-Cata and it has the best lore post WC3

Because he's the last in the line of Wrynn

Also he's one of the few priests in the world canonically capable of reviving the dead

Except MoP lore, while cool in regards to Y'shaarj and the history of Pandaria, was ruined by the entire plotline of MoP being fuckawful.

Also they backflipped on Garrosh's character growth, which was kind of dumb

He couldn't rezz his dad. he is useless. And why would a legion that exists across all timelines care about a wrynn?
it made the entire human questing experience into an adventure. Redridge with yowler, the necromancer terrorizing the people of darkshire, and westfall being overrun by defias goons were all the result of political manipulation. It made the world feel far more alive than the bullshit self contained memezones that the post cataclysm game had.

Also the small fact that it was the last major alliance outpost before stranglethorn made it more important than westfall.

I thoroughly enjoyed the alliance start quest in MoP. I redid it multiple times until ride of the valkyries stopped playing.

Horde don't surf.

>>And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.
>So what? A Stormwind guard couldn't have issues?
>>It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.
>That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.
They needed someplace distant to perform the sacrifices to enchant gear in order to breach the palace with a portal.

So the corrupt guard sends some of his fellows to Duskwood.

Makes more sense than what we got.

That's actually an interesting point, most of Stormwind's original mages were rather close with their dead boss's (Possessed) son.

And Redridge is just south of one of the only zones in the eastern kingdoms to HAVE large scorpids.

I liked the feeling of being either outright shipwrecked for the Horde, or left there to fight a war with a mere skeleton crew for the alliance.

both of the opening quests are pretty good. Chasing Anduin as the Alliance and trying to dig in and keep him as the Horde are cool too.
>tfw based Nazgrim dies with honor for the Horde
>tfw you bring him back in Legion

>Makes more sense than what we got.

Except that it makes no sense.
If the head of the guards and a whole mess of guardsmen are corrupted then they'd have run of the city.
What we got is disgruntled people being swayed by promises of power, it makes perfect sense.

Working with the very same sort of guards who never aided them?

Not really. There's not ENOUGH corrupt guards/footmen to manage the city in an outright revolt especially after the disguised Demonsworking alongside them get slaughtered at Varian's funeral, send a few out on a "Mercy Mission" and catch a militia by surprise, then BOOM you got your sacrifices.

>Working with the very same sort of guards who never aided them?

Working with fellow agents of the Legion.

>There's not ENOUGH corrupt guards/footmen to manage the city

You don't need to manage a city, as head of the guard you can just use a derelict building to commit your profane rites in. Sending troops to wipe out a small town would raise suspicion than some people going missing in a major city.

>I want to try WoW
>40 GB

not if the its supposed to be a routine patrol mission. garrisons do that shit all the time.

10 years of trying to bodge an old engine to doing bigger and better things.

Almost the whole world is stored client side other than AI.

>not if the its supposed to be a routine patrol mission.

What?

>What we got is disgruntled people being swayed by promises of power, it makes perfect sense.
The reason this feels like a kick in the teeth is that Darkshire has already been through hell and come out with their humanity more or less intact. Having them then suddenly turn out to be EVIL ALL ALONG LOL really cheapens that.

It's not so much that Duskwood has/had a lot of problems. Its that there was just something fundamentally wrong with the place. Like the whole land was cursed, and everybody born in it fated to suffer.

>legion infiltrated unit is assigned a regular patrol to duskwood
>they sacrifice the people in the town and do their demonic shit
>go back to the city and spring their trap

this. Darkshire was abandoned and left alone by the greater alliance at a time when the entire place was falling apart. They survived living in a creepy forest for years on end, and they suddenly turn to be Evil because the mayor and the captain of the town guard have the name ebonlocke.

>tfw your SI:7 waifu dies in a lolcorruption dreadlord storyline

I fucking hate Blizzard. It isn't funny anymore.

duskwood was never even cursed until morbent fell arrived. The worgen and morbent fell would have been fucking rekt by the a regular stormwind detachment of troops, and the necromancer is a wc3 green creep camp guy.

The land was fine. Everything you see from the start of wow is a recent phenomenon.

do they kill amber?

>EVIL ALL ALONG LOL

Fucking stop.
Not evil all along.
Turned to evil after years of being worn down

>>legion infiltrated unit is assigned a regular patrol to duskwood
>>they sacrifice the people in the town and do their demonic shit
>>go back to the city and spring their trap

>Send your loyal troops out of the position you need them
>Hope they can kill the village with no word escaping
>Hope they can get back to their position in Stormwind in time
>Do this for no reason

Good plan.

>they suddenly turn to be Evil because the mayor and the captain of the town guard have the name ebonlocke.

Alternatively they turn evil because the Burning Legion is invading en mass and offers them a place of power if only they kill some of the shits that abandoned them for years.

Naturally.

Actually the scythe of elune cursed the place. Morbent Fell only arrived later, since where the fuck else is a necromancer working together with Black riders (aka nazguls) supposed to go?

Eh, there was something wrong with it when people started resettling after WC2, some sort of magic leak from Karazhan that has trashed the weather, plants, and animals, Morbent Fell only made it worse.

I never got the impression that they were outright working together.

The Scythe was one of many curses.

>having characters from Cataclysm survive until Legion
Alliance bias

alright.
fuck blizzard in the ass with a rusty spoon.
If anything, post MOP, they will be on the upswing because the alliance and the horde are not at war anymore, everyone is returning home and soldiers will actually help their kingdom now.

Its just like a story where a guy survives a war, goes back to his wife, and just as he is getting out of the taxi, he slips and falls, and breaks his head on the pavement, and dies. Its a shitty story that adds nothing to the game.

also
>some shady cult offers you a place of power, all you have to do is kill the people who have been sending adventurers your way to help deal with the problem because they had their forces busy elsewhere. Now that you have survived the worst of the war, you can start waging war again, but for green fel magic!

there wasn't anything inherently wrong with duskwood until the scythe or morbent fell arrived.
All we can say is.
Fucking Jitters.

I'll be so pissed if Jaina Goes Crazy and Must Be Killed™ while Sylvanas magically ascends to Warchief despite everyone in the Horde hating her ass.

>>some shady cult offers you a place of power, all you have to do is kill the people who have been sending adventurers your way to help deal with the problem because they had their forces busy elsewhere. Now that you have survived the worst of the war, you can start waging war again, but for green fel magic!
Oh and kill all the people you've been working to protect.

>there wasn't anything inherently wrong with duskwood until the scythe or morbent fell arrived.
>All we can say is.
>Fucking Jitters.
In one of the Warcraft Legends comics it's mentioned that a malignancy was seeping out of deadwind. (And two girls go in and duo that one hidden Satyr boss.)

I think Duskwood was more less a case of everything going wrong at once. First Karazhan started fucking with the place. Then the scyth of elune curse happend. And then a necromancer decided to call the place his new home.

The result is a place that seems to just be fundamentally fucked. And as a result i'm mostly fine with this "twist" even though it is kind of cheap writing.

Really, the bigger problem for me is that its only a rogue quest. Since that just makes the whole thing feel far more throw away that it should be. Which is a shame since despite the fact its not "relevant" anymore (A idea that pisses me off on multiple levels). Duskwood is still a wonderful zone that deserves to be treated with the same level of respect as "relevant" content.

>If anything, post MOP, they will be on the upswing

I doubt it since MoP and WoD represent two costly wars. In addition to the Alliance getting rekt at the Broken shore.

>Its a shitty story that adds nothing to the game.

It's a good story because it apparently has you in tears. The Legion are doing bad things and corrupting people as they should.
Characters sucumbing to their influence builds them as villains which leads to a more satisfying pay off when they are inevitably defeated.

>>some shady cult offers you a place of power

But the Legion isn't some shady cult, it's an impossibly vast army of immortal demons, overflowing with power.

> Now that you have survived the worst of the war

But they've not survived the worst of the war, the point of the expansion is that the worst is coming, the Legion is arriving in all its might.

If Stormwind can't help them through comparatively calm times then there's no way they can help against the Legion.