Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

The Mantid did literally nothing wrong edition


Discuss the lore of the Warcraft setting and its relation to tabletop gaming, and plan Warcraft based games

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First for the Mantid did everything wrong

Starting with being drawn like . Weird bug creatures have no business having human-like hands.

go away Lei Shen, this is an Old God thread

My first impression of WoW: I feel too strong for a "Low level" guy.

post-Cata? Skill rebalances over the years have made low level characters far too strong. It's supposedly getting fixed during Legion or in the expansion after

t. Cho'gall

Your character is the center of the universe and everything happens because of you.

except that everyone has the same real impact in the world: 0

Did I miss it, or did WoD ever explain the Pale Orcs and just what Cho'Gall was up to when he betrayed Gul'dan at Oshu'gun?

>not embracing the coming of Twilight
>being a pathetic alien robot instead of ascending to a glorious elemental state to rule the world when the Old Masters return

it's void energy we ain't gotta explain shit
-Blizzard

basically he's butthurt at Imperator Mar'gok for reasons that are never explained so he joins the Shadow Council to gain power and attempt to attack Highmaul, and when he thinks he's ready he betrays Gul'dan to do so

I always wanted to know what created the Pale Orcs and what Cho's end game was. Just sorta felt dropped. I know he pops up to replace Mar'gok as the boss of Mythic Highmaul, but that really doesn't explain anything.
Typical Blizzard. Probably had a plot line for him that got cut along with half the rest of the content of the expansion.

>Embracing the coming of twilight
>Wanting the world to revert to its savage, primordial state where only Trolls and wild animals could survive
>Implying you'll ascend and not just be a sacrifice or the midnight snack of a faceless

I fucking hate this in MMOs. I KNOW that I am not unique and there are many other players. Seriously, that destroys my immersion.

I imagine his end game was some combination of killing everything, getting more power, screaming his attacks very loudly, and getting a new model. Probably in that order.

If Legion is supposed to fix that i'm assuming it's going to happen after launch. because at the moment my level 48 shaman is death incarnate.

>Cho: Ve're nihilists, Mar'gokowsky.

>Gall: Ve belief in *nothing*!

>Both: If you don't give us Highmaul ven ve come back, ve'll cut off your chonson!

Who is best orc and why is it Gul'dan?

it will be, IIRC they're testing applying Broken Isles level scaling to earlier content to make leveling feel more challenging and less boring

>level scaling

>they pissed on my abrogator stones maaaan
>they really tied the whole empire together

They need to un-nerf Murlocs. Give them their huge Vanilla aggro radius and make them flee into more Murlocs, and even more Murlocs until you're you're completely enveloped in MMMRRGGRGLGL

better than two-shotting everything until Pandaria in the same zones over and over every time you make an alt

Fun fact: Low level healers that stand in a middle of a murloc 'nest' will kill murlocs roughly as fast as they respawn, and not die because of their mana regen and self heals.

t. spent 15 minutes before i gave up and ran away

Am i the only one that is reminded of pale orcs when watching gul'dan's new story? Both backgrounds involve failing at the throne of the elements and being crippled

>CITIZENS OF DALARAN

Now, maybe. Playing a clothie in Vanilla, they were the bane of my existence. I was a Warlock, and I had no reliable CC against too many of them. A Fear would just send it running into more. And I couldn't do anything to drop them fleeing in terror into more of their allies. Was a sad game of tagging one on the periphery of their village and trying to pull him away for the kill, rinse, repeat, and hope I don't have a quest objective to recover from the middle of the nest.

I didn't think of it when I watched it, but it makes sense now that you mention it. When he's wandering around he's even all skinny like the Pale

>Old gods
>Burning legion
>Memedins (probably)

STOP RIGHT FUCKING THERE.

This made me laugh more than it had any right to.

So I have not played Legion beta at all and I know each class gets some kind of legion nemesis.

What does the Hunter Campaign involve doing? I know houndmaster Hakkar is their Nemesis.

And I know Warriors unite the Titanic watchers, but who is their Nemesis?

A what?

>the Nerubians dug a vast empire underneath the icy wastes of Northrend with architecture unmatched by any race to come since
>the mantid are masters of certain technical disciplines and have martial prowess to stand against and even threaten the strongest Titanforged race
>the Silithid are barely conscious animals useless as anything but cannon fodder

was C'thun even trying?

y-yes s-sir Officer Mograine, sir

C'thuns bug people were the Qiraj.

Silithid were slave beasts.

Also, the Nerubians turned against Old God worship.

I've not heard of this, it sounds interesting though.

C'thun was the one who originally created the aqir out of the primordial silithid. Ot was the Aqir who would conquer most of ancient Kalimdor. Then the trolls wrecked their shit and they split into different types. The Aqir in the north became the Nerubians. Others got trapped in China and became the Mantid, the rest went south and sacked the Titan research station in Uldum and became the Qiraji, who hung out down there worshipping old C'thun. If

Does anyone secretly wish for a WoW2?

I'd rather have WC4.

I dream an impossible dream of WoW2 coming out and retconning everything from Cataclysm onwards as non-canon. Starting where WotLK left off lore-wise

Also, you can go to Kul Tiras and the Horde is still weaker than the Alliance

>and the Horde is still weaker than the Alliance

Started off subtle but ya blew it here, lad.

>Horde weaker than the Alliance

I think you're sort of confused about strength here.

What the Horde lack in numbers, especially Vanilla wow Horde, they made up for in great personal strength.

Remember, in lore, Tauren are strong enough to wreck steamtanks with logs.

The Quiraji had a vast empire encompassing most of southern kalimdor and fought the night elves, arguably the most powerful force in the world at the time, to a standstill

>Starring: Anduin the sixty year old, Tyrande, Fenran, Thralls kid,

I think at this point, the cracks in the engine are getting a little too large. If WoW 2 ever happened, it'd just be a new engine.

>And Magi "Diamond is Unbreakable" Bronzebeard

>The tutorial is against Tyrande. It teaches you about garrisoning buildings against an archer rush.

>grandpa anduin

might be cool

>fenran

nigga's name is dagran ii thaurissan

>tyrande

god no, dude

>thrall's kid

nigga's name is durak

Please and thank you

Cataclysm and WoD were mistakes
Even pandaria is iffy

Give back BC talent trees plz

What comes after legion? There are rumors that there will be a huge timeskip.

In the lore, Malfurion can solo the Horde. So can Velen. At this point, so could Jaina. In the lore, Ironforge can out manufacture the Horde by itself.
Tauren are tough individually, but there are so few of them that they couldn't even beat the fucking Quillboars without the Orc's help.
The only reason the Horde still exists is pure plot armor.

Has there ever been an instance outside of his sacrifice in WoD where Velen has demonstrated his power? I've seen this mentioned a lot but I don't know the basis that backs it up.

>alliance has all these living god characters that they acknowledge as being OP as fuck
>people go ape shit and bitch about thrall getting a power up and evening the score ever so slightly
>mfw

Velen is a Prophet figure, he has Amazingly strong farseeing powers but he's never shown anything that resembles shooting laser beams to kill people.

Nope.

Even in the Rise of the Horde novel, he lets himself get captured and made prisoner.

Because gameplay and game story has to remain balanced, they don't show anytthing. By Blizzard's fluff, he was on the level of Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden and only got stronger when he accepted the Light. They built him up as a living superweapon, but then stuck him in the bottom of his city with his thumb up his ass for the past 10 years.

>Talks about Plot Armour
>Stormwind literally sprang up as a major superpower to rival Orgrimmar overnight.

Orgrimmar was built my almost all of the Orcish race banded together, yet Stormwind was such a desolate ruin the surviving people fled to Lordaeron THAT WAS IN TURN destroyed and then fled to Theramore.

So you want to talk about plot armour, explain Stormwind.

>defending Green Jesus
Metzen pls go and stay go.

>They built him up as a living superweapon

No they fucking didn't you rabid retard.

He's called PROPHET VELEN. He is a Moses figure not a fucking weapon to surpass metal gear.

He's shown in WoD and Legion to be extremely powerful in the Light. That doesn't always mean calling down laserbeams from the sky.

I'd hope a WoW 2 would be an entirely different game with entirely different systems and gameplay... but I think you're right, closest we'll likely get to WoW 2 will be some brand new revamped engine or something.

I just want a brand new MMO set in the warcraft universe and also a fresh start.

Velen is not the good equivalent of Archimonde in terms of power. He's just old and wise.

Now Malfurion is literally Goku or some shit.

bruh, it's worse than rivaling orgrimmar

stormwind has overtaken fucking IRONFORGE

you know, ironforge? like the oldest capital city in the game and its never fallen in all its history? heart of industry in the alliance, possibly all of azeroth?

yeah, stormwind has somehow surpassed that juggernaut of a city because humans

humans are the ultimate mary sues of warcraft

not defending thrall in the slightest, just pointing out some hilarious hypocrisy

Okay, same guy that asked about Velen.

When has Malfurion demonstrated his potency? Blowing up Archimonde seemed to be less him and more "I have a plan", I guess he helped when Ragnaros invaded Hyjal? Most of WC3 is him shitting his pants and communing with nature when something bad happens somewhere as I recall?

They rebuilt Stormwind after winning the Second War. It had been being rebuilt since before Thrall had even escaped Durnholde.
It was only Lordaeron that got wrecked by the Scourge.

>the surviving people fled to Lordaeron THAT WAS IN TURN destroyed and then became the Forsaken
FTFY

>Stormwind was rebuild after the second war

So the Horde just went AROUND the Human kingdom that was rebuilding on their doorstep?

Oh wait no, It's a stupid as fuck retcon.

people just assume malfurion is godmode despite the fact that a few magically-empowered orcs killed his teacher (and superior as far as power levels are concerned)

Malfurion is pretty much "best Druid" like many of the classes, this makes his power level stupidly high.

Highest power level dude however right now is Magni bronzebeard because he's the voice of Azeroth.

That trumps "Guy who talks to the nature of Azeroth" and "Guy who talks to the elements of Azeroth" by a country mile.

Kul'Tiras was untouched by the orcs and single-handedly stopped the horde's attempt at a navy, prospered and received human refugees from everywhere since the beggining of the franchise, AND ITS NOT EVEN IN THE GAME

Yeah, Cenarius not only is the literal creator of druidism, he's also the favoured child of Elune.

Malfurion defeated Azshara in a world-shattering battle.

What did Velen ever do? People just assume he's mega powerful cause he was Archie and Kil'jaeden's bro back before they joined the legion.
He's probably powerful but not their equivalent anymore.

Even Alliance fans like myself admit Stormwind is the most mary sue asspull in the entire lore.

I mean fuck me, Stromgarde is basically a ruin and the Scourge didn't even hit it yet Stormwind is suddenly THE HEART AND JEWEL OF THE ALLIANCE

here's what happened

>stormwind gets shrekt, ending the first war. rapefugees from stormwind arrive on boats in lordaeron
>second war ends, stormwind is reclaimed. stormwind rapefugees return home.
>reconstruction begins on stormwind using funds from the member-states of the alliance (lordaeron, ironforge, etc) immediately after the second war has ended
>beyond the dark portal happens, stormwind is fine
>third war happens, stormwind just chills in the background
>wow happens, stormwind the strongest human nation remaining and somehow in charge of the alliance even though ironforge or theramore should technically be in charge

>In a worldshattering battle

Nigga, that battle was to stop Darkshore becoming even-less-Darkshore.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the War of the Ancients where they blew up the fucking well of eternity

>malfurion defeated azshara

so did i with four other players

not a big deal

>Nothing mentioned at all in Warcraft 3.
>Blackrock Clan so strong they push into lordaeron still.
>Nothing mentioned at the end of Warcraft 2, with Lothar the Lion of stormwind dead.
>Uther stays in Lordaeron instead of heading back to Stormwind for some reason

Stormwind is literally an Asspull.

>Only Malfurion blew up the well

Yeah, no.

>>beyond the dark portal happens, stormwind is fine
in the game Stormwind and Dalaran both get shrekt again but the book retconned it so that Teron Gorefiend and Deathwing just sneak around being dickass thieves instead

>wow.gamepedia.com/Queen_Azshara_(tactics)

not even the final boss of a 5 man dungeon

JUST

Well yeah, him and Azshara.
Sure i guess it was more "unstable" due to the whole summoning Sargeras thing or whatever.

Good ole Teron Gorefiend. Death Knight of the year all years.

This came up a couple of threads ago, hoping someone can enlighten me. Teron Gorefiend was the first Death Knight, made by Gul'Dan. What distinguishes him from the Death Knights in the service of the Scourge, and the Ebon Blade? Is it nothing beyond "magic invested in body and adding soul to body"? Are their similarities non-existent beyond names?

1st gen Death Knights were souls of Orc Warlocks in fallen Human bodies
2nd gen Death Knights were mostly Human paladins who lost their soul to their own vampiric Runeblades, like Arthas.
3rd gen Death Knights were manufactured in Acherus and were just Undead Shock Troopers.

Not too many differences. The first-gen DK's are the souls of orc warlocks in the bodies of human knights. They used a combination of standard necromancy and crazy shadow Warlock magic. Also, their souls were placed inside gems that were then placed inside maces/truncheons/etc. That "soul gem" is what kept their spirits anchored to their new bodies.

Also, some of the first-gen DKs that survived became liches and eventually wound up in service to the Scourge anyways.

It's worth noting that first gen Death Knights are heavy on the casting, light on the melee-- pretty much the reverse second-gen onward Death Knights. DKs in the Second war share a lot in common with Necrolytes from the First, and probably some of them are the same people. They're more like mounted necromancers than anything-- are are very similar to liches, who are largely also former orc spellcasters. Though liches also have frost in their arsenal after being empowered by Ner'zhul in Icecrown, their signature technique, Death and Decay, was originally a Second War DK spell.

Actually giving them the same name was probably a mistake.

>very similar to liches
most of the original liches were death knights, except for Kel'thuzad obviously (even though he is the only human with an apostrophe in his name)

I see, so there's nothing inherently Scourge-based in them? A Death Knight is just a soul anchored in a body. Thanks for clarifying Anons, it'd been bugging me.

Where do Runeblades come from then? I've onyl heard of them with Scourge connotations.

Obviously its the strongest human nation in the world. Like you said, it pretty much did nothing for two games while everybody else was getting devastated. And why the hell would Theramore be in charge? Its a small Lordaeron remnant far away from the center of the alliance.

The main reason why Stormwind was in charge instead of Ironforge is probally because humans are still the majority in the alliance.

>A Death Knight is just a soul anchored in a body.
first gen DKs are, second gen DKs usually have no soul at all, or their soul is trapped in their runeblade. Runeblades are generally made by smiths working for the Scourge, generally vrykul because they're knowledgeable in rune magic

Stormwind was asspulled. It was heavy implied that it was in ruins before wow, they just made up defiance and all that as an excuse.

It was made to balance the world, making a 3v1 in each continent

I see, cheers user.

Did Blizzard explain why are the kaldorei in the Alliance?

Do you need to have everything spelled out to you? Just because Stormwind wasn't mentioned in Warcraft 3 doesn't mean the whole place just disappeared. Even Beyond the Dark Portal showed they were busy rebuilding the place.

Also that wasn't the same Blackrock Clan that we have in Wow. It was just a small remnant of the second war Horde invasion fleet still hanging out in Lordaeron.

>By Blizzard's fluff, he was on the level of Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden

Roughly, but he didn't get remade as a master of the Burning Legion, he ran away and got zen.

I didn't think that was the case. We're the liches originally mortal warlocks who got captured by demons along with Ner'zhul when they tried to flee Draenor's collapse only to end up in the twisting nether rather than somewhere safe? The impression I got from the WC3 manual was that they got disembodied, tortured a bunch, and then shoved into new, artificial bodies-- a process similar to DKs, but not the same, and not done to the same people.

I played Warcraft 3. And i don't ever remember it being implied that the whole place was just a ruin. Like i said in a different post. Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean the whole place just disappeared.

>We're the liches originally mortal warlocks who got captured by demons along with Ner'zhul when they tried to flee Draenor's collapse only to end up in the twisting nether rather than somewhere safe?
unless the lore changed or I read it terribly wrong, they were

During the WotA trilogy (I know, I know, Knaak and time travel) he summons a hurricane of sufficient strength that it threatens to destroy both armies on the field (or at least Azeroth's).