ITT things that infuriate you in games

*have words

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about shit like "My character is named Macho Man Randy Savage"

>player constantly talks over other players

My first session with a new group was just like this. It was so bad I just started typing everything I wanted to say in text because they wouldn't shut the fuck up.

>DM does short/small RP on a forum for in-between sessions
>fellow player writes dialog and actions for PCs and NPCs without asking players or DMs for the okay first

>Playing online

Are people so pathetic they have no friends, or are they just too afraid to leave Mom's basement?

Related bitching

>Player has some retarded plan that is literally impossible due to magic/basic physics/people/cause and effect/whatever not working that way.
>Player proceeds to tell absolutely no one about said plan
>Player, however, continues to work towards that plan
>Player throws a hissy fit when he reveals his "master plan" and it doesn't work.

"I've spent four sessions working on this and spent almost all my gold, what do you mean 'it doesn't work'?"
"Sorry man, if I had known what all those rats were for early on I would have told you then."

I see this most often with people trying to apply misinformation they found on the internet (the grain silo story someone posted recently comes to mind), but bonus points if the plan was impossible due to some common-knowledge thing about the setting and the player never bothered to learn a damn thing about the world they're playing in. I've dealt with a mix of both.

man sure dose suck being such a pathetic loser growing up and moving due to a job man if only i could somehow play with my friends from back home so we can still enjoy the game.

you can relax man, no reason to be rude

>playing Baldur's Gate
>get that wild mage character
>she seems nice and a need a wizard, her spells might be cool
>fight some dire wolves
>time for the fucking magic
>start simple, try to use her wild magic option to cast a magic missile
>the dire wolf is turned invincible
>whole party is slowly murdered

If they don't get that RNG screwing them over sometimes is supposed to be fun, they shouldn't have gone for RNG.

>GM does not stop him at any point of this

I need angrier reaction images

People move cities, user.

One of my groups all live at least three hours from one another. Finding a couple of days where we can all meet isn't feasible with our disparate work schedules, especially since none of us have extra room for the others to crash.

I've got a more local group too, but we're all college age so they're only really going to available during the summer.

Man it's so hard to find a DnD group in some places, and if you do there is a huge statistical likelihood that the group is bullshit
>I just talked to a gm that wanted me to join even though he already had 8 players. I NOPED the fuck out of that conversation so fast.

Seriously. It's either Magical Realm shit or overcrowded parties.

>walking punchline characters

Had a couple of games with a guy who's entire character was that he was a trans elf barbarian. Fucking annoying character with even less depth than the dragonborn cleric I made up on the spot (the setting was nothing so I just made a wanderlusted cleric of Pelor and tried my best).

>DM makes an obvious flub, gets mad when the players call him on it

A new DM tried running me and some other college buddies through a game using an ultra-simple homebrew system a friend of mine made up for fun. The ability list is probably larger than the actual rules, which all fit into a small packet.

The DM tried running us through a scenario where we all started in the brig of a small pirate ship and had to escape. It started out fine, but he immediately had us rolling perception for really mundane shit like doors and access hatches in rooms which weren't even poorly lit. We asked him to cut it out and he got pissy.

At some point we opened up a hatch in the floor and he said it opened up into the hold, which was about thirty feet deep.

>but didn't you say we where at the bottom of this ship?
>The ladder breaks and you take [fatal] damage.

He got up and left in a fit after that. It was a really shitty two hours.

>Last session of a 4-month campaign
>"Wait... how does attacking work again?"
*Facepalm*

>Enemy has gone full abomination and is swelling to fill the entirety of an alien tomb.
>Its mass is slowly working to envelop the PCs.
>Allies outside with a fuckton of napalm ready to burn the whole motherfucker inside out
>"Let's stand in place and attack it!"
There is no glory in TPKing a party. Only sadness.

>Players passing through unimportant hamlet
>"Let's kill the mayor and become the new mayors of Bumbleshart!"
And that was the last time I DMed for them.

>Players are teenage girls confronted by a little magical creature offering them wishes in exchange for shady shit
>Players can't be arsed to try to investigate who is possessed by a demon and where they are
>"I'm bored. I'm going meguca. Fuck the wish."
They never did get through the investigation... It wasn't even hard.

>Players have trouble navigating a megadungeon they've been mapping
>They rip off the rival adventuring company
>Loot includes a map
>"I go through the door to the west"
>"To the west is a smooth wall of cyclopean masonry, with masterfully crafted etchings of... [GM bullshitting]. There appears to be no door."
>"This map says there's a door. I'm going through the door."
>Shows me the map.
>The door is just a smudge from all the damage I did to make the map look worn.
>"Keep in mind that the map is a bit worn."
>"That doesn't matter, there's a door here. I want to go through it."
If you'd have actually tried fuckin' with the wall, I might have put a secret one in anyway.

>most systems can't strike a balance between wounds and permanent injuries with health being totally abstract and healing magic negating almost all tension

>no current system has any sort good combat flow that would require a character carrying multiple weapons

>player makes a character that is specifically good at doing something gimmicky (tripping fighter, grappling barbarian, etc) GM immediately builds every single encounter around completely negating that gimmick because it's "overpowered"

Veeky Forums complains about their games even more than /v/,and thats saying something.

People rarely sing up for consequences.

Combat that can't be circumvented by planning and strategy.

Players that don't want to do planning and strategy and just want to roll dice in combat.

>GM immediately builds every single encounter around completely negating that gimmick because it's "overpowered"
Most of these gimmicks are either 'you waste your action' if you don't succeed or 'encounter ends' if you do. There's no winning with d&d.

You're not wrong, but it's still annoying.

mild annoyances at best.

This one I don't really know how to handle.

>player is cheating at dice
>casts minor illusion on dice to change a number into another number.
>only specifies changing that one number into the other number. Does not account for other faces
>dice are revealed.
>the dice affected by minor illusion now has 2 of the same number on it.
>someone calls the player out for cheating.

Luckily nobody got mad, and the NPC who called them out on the cheat was pretty cool with it, and even helped them get away otherwise undetected, after splitting the pot with them.

Should I have given the player the benefit of the doubt and had the spell affect all faces of the dice? Should I generously interpret my player's vague or specific magical spell usages? The ambiguity annoys me.

>reactionary house rules or not letting you know about existing house rules before hand

i built a dex based maneuver monk only to learn 2 sessions in that the gm replaced grappling with a strength check.at least he let me remake my character.

literally just let a player know what it is they are playing before you end up wasting their time

I recognize madoka but what are the other ones

They're just an array of campaigns I wrote and one public D&D game I regret ever running.

The megucas one specifically featured a familiar that was like the shamwow guy if he were a mafioso and a cat.
The twist was that the familiar wasn't out to fuck them over, and actually had the PCs' well-being in mind despite sacrificing them for the good of the universe.
It was just really, really inappropriate henshin, that didn't accomplish a single thing. The guy who did it was spiraling into drug use and had begun losing IQ real fast. They didn't finish the adventure.

>I want to use a sword
"Well that's just fine. Realize that your enemies will have guns, but sure, sword as much as you want."

This happened in my last Shadowrun game. Some new guy joined us (friend of somebody who knew we played, asked to join) and went full fucking weeaboo: Japanese version of himself as his character. So this guy has NO augmentations of any kind, just a straight up normal Japanese man with money and family connections. Fine concept, simple enough for Shadowrun. We all figured he would be playing a Face. But he refused to carry any kind of gun, and only had a katana which was "passed down through his family for countless generations." He also challenged people in the party to "duels of honor" over dumb things, and was generally an unlikable shit.

Nobody liked this dork.

Our DM warned him multiple times that there was a lot of gunplay in the campaign, since we were fucking with the yakuza. He also warned him that trying to go melee against fully cyberized street samurai was a really stupid-ass idea as a non-altered human. If he wanted to be the Face, it was fine, but straight-up combat was going to get him killed.

Well, fucking Junichi disagreed, and said "if our DM ran a halfway-good game, then he could play however he wanted." DM didn't take kindly to that shit.

So, in his first "duel of honor" challenge with a yakuza NPC, Junichi got shot to death by like four dudes with uzis. We never saw his player again. We're all pretty sure he stole a bag of chips and like a handful of dice when he left.

>all dem DMs
GM, sorry. It's late.

>We're all pretty sure he stole a bag of chips and like a handful of dice when he left.
okay okay wait
the chips, fine
take em as a consolation prize or whatever because you had a shitty time
fine
that shit's like 2 bucks at meijer, whatever
but taking fucking dice?
come on man that shit is just petty
what the fuck even possesses people to act like that?

>"I want to use a sword"
Yup

>player changes their mind multiple times on what they want their character to be after they already went through chargen
It is why I now hate Shadowrun.

> player's character name is a shitty joke, pop culture figure's, based around "heehee, it has the word 'fuck' in it heehee", a pop culture figure, based around a shitty joke
Meh, you're just one nickname / shadow name away from making it irrelevant. If the group goes with the retardness, then you're the one not fitting. Find a better group.

>player gets upset when I tell them to make a character and not a living punchline
Agreed.

>player's character is a nonsensical mess not fitting with the setting
Agreed. Supervillain game with a guy using a pipe that when you blow, produce ordinary common household cats.

>player doesn't know if he's available to play until the day before or day of
>player doesn't show up, gives a shitty excuse the day after
The rage of a thousand suns. Kicked players for these very reason.

> player spends most of the session going on tangents about stupid shit
If it is one or two players, I agree. Otherwise, it's part of the socialization: No need to be all business.

> player interrupts me before I finish describing something
Easy: I start describing hazards / enemy equipment last.

>player constantly talks over other players

Seriously, this is all shit that can easily be screened out the two first sessions. OP's complaint was something much more insidious. It's a whole other thing.

TBF, if you show your character sheet to the DM and discuss what you want to do with it, you can make sure he is 110% responsible if anything like this happens.

Better safe than sorry, so record the thing. It's easy will cell phones nowadays.

A very similar thing happened to me. Pathfinder (yeah, I know), group is slave liberators (PCs choice, mostly that guy), that guy decides to play a paladin. The bow-using one that starts with precise shot. Rich parent, so Composite Longbow with strength bonus.

No way level 1 characters can face a camp of slavers, even amateurs, all at once.

So I design the camp. It's a mining camp. Miners dug and fell on some cave bear's cave. Escaped and went looking for help. Found the PCs.

Group had a ranger, and the bear was neutral, so it could be attacked or swayed by the melee ranger easily. Cave had more guards, separated in check points once could call "encounters". Slavers had weak weapons (daggers, short bows, short swords, whips, clubs) and, as foes, were weaker than orcs (CR 1/3).

The camp was walled, had (elevated) sentry positions, and anywhere between 120 feet of difficult terrain. So they stormed the fucking fort.

One of the PCs somehow managed to get AC 20+ and tanked most of the shots as him and the ranger ran to the walls. The paladin stood back and took pot shots. Circumstance modifiers (range + elevation + cover) made sure the paladin missed his first three shots. The thugs being more numerous, one scores a threat. I negate it, it lands near him and mention the arrow is glistening in a green liquid.

He fells a thug while his allies try to climb a wooden palissade.

Sure enough, a second threat comes. it hits the paladin. I require a Fort save. He fails. His strength lowers. Now he gets another to-hit penalty from insufficient STR.

The boss (both figurative and literal), a gunman, gets out and begin attacking those who climbed the wall. He is slightly elevated.

Smite Evil.

Boss goes in full cover (by simply climbing down the building, pistols' range are shit). Players are defeated. Never heard from the paladin ever.

> and anywhere OVER 120 feet of difficult terrain

My friend has a totem warrior barbarian named Tiger Woods in a 5e game I DM. I wanted to veto it, but with his backstory I couldn't. Roughly: he grew up in a tribal community of druids who revered tigers, when a ritual went grossly wrong and they all perma-tigered he took up the name to represent his homeland while he traveled looking for a way to undo the ritual.

Maybe they just like to complain

>GM presents plothook
>GM presents plothook
>GM presents plothook
>GM presents plothook
>Thanks to how long each one takes (and the fact that he won't stop presenting plothooks while we're pursuing one) we can effectively only choose one, or if we're lucky, two, out of all available options
>GM punishes us for whatever we didn't choose, er'ry time
>becomes less "what do you/your characters want to do?" and more "what do you want to get guilted and punished for?"

Did they roll well on casting? The illusion is good, the other faces of the die change as well. Did they roll badly? What you described, happens. Did they completely botch the roll? All six faces of the die now show sixes and the dice start to declare in an annoying voice that the caster won the game.

I would probably have evaluate whether to interpret generously based on something relating to their int or wis scores (e.g. raw ability check). The idea being "yes, your character was smart enough to have noticed this problem even if you as a player didn't."

I would point out the ambiguity to the player and caution them to be more thorough in the future, regardless.

"wait what do I roll to attack again?"

>that guy who sees a plothook and laughs and runs in the other direction

ok cool, thanks for exercising your free will, but if you don't want to play my game, why are you playing my game

>player rolls damage
>DM: Roll to hit first
>player: Oh, right
>player rolls damage again
like what part of d20 system is unclear to these people

You sure you are not playing magical xcom?

3 months into a campaign.
"Right, so.... Is it strength to hit?"
"No, you are using a Gun."
"Oh. Uh..."
"Dex."
"Oh."
6 months into campaign.

"Right, so, with dex, that's a 27."
"You're using a greatsword."
"Yeah?"
"That's strength."
"Oh."
"Yes."
"And dam-?"
"Strength. It's always been strength."

18 months in.
"20 to hit."
"Wait, what? You rolled a 4. And your level 15. BAB alone should take you to 19!"
"Yeah, it does. Then +1 from my sword being enchanted."
"...."
"So, 20. Yeah."
"And, Strength?"
"You add strength to hit?"
"Yes."
"Oh. 23."
"But your level 15, how do you only have 16 str? You're playing a strength based...Forget it. it hits"
"8 damage. Ha!"
"But..you rolled a 4 and a 3? How...?"
"Yeah, but MAGIC sword, remember?"
"Holy shit, what about strength?"
"You add-?"
"YES."
"Oh. 11"
"Don't you have power attack?"
"What now?"
"Oh my god. Also, you're two handing, aren't you?"
"Yeah, so?"
"....And your a fighter, so you also have weapon training."
"Yeah."
"Are you going to add your bonus to damage?"
"What?"
"Nevermind."

I wish it weren't true.

>player character refuses to aid other player character because of disagreement outside the game
>player wants to play just so he can fuck around as whatever FotM anime character he recently learned about, then immediately loses interest
Oh also
>character background generator
I know Pathfinder is garbage but it's my kind of garbage, except for the fucking generator. It makes me want to write a character personality test like a job application or something to make sure people establish a personality and not just additional combat bonuses, but that sounds like just a tiny bit too much effort to ever bother.

Crunch
>Shields are useless
Fluff
>Race = culture
Players
>Rule-lawyers

>Players constantly fighting over who gets to GM
>Everyone who gets a chance wants to start their own new fucking campaign instead of continuing the one they already made last time
In four years I've never seen further than 2nd level. I'm not mad anymore, I'm sad.

How about Captain Kilmeister Savage? Fuck, Captain Savage is pretty awesome on its own.

That's because unlike /v/ we actually play the games we're bitching about

This applies to real life too unfortunately.

FPBP

>Players blindly trust other character's words, even though they've been lied to and fucked over before
>Players show loyalty to each other only when it's convenient, turn on each other if there's a benefit to doing so
>Party conflict stops them from ever accomplishing anything, at best they'll make it through the first big quest before it all falls to shit
>Even if they describe their characters as good guys, they'll always find a way to turn on each other

Why are they so deadset on fucking themselves over? I've really driven the point home that they need to be on the same page for this next game, but I feel like I'm just delaying the inevitable for a few more sessions. Like, what more can I say? I've told them the exact reason they keep failing is because they don't work together and they all agree.

Hey if he forgets all of the buffs he gets that's his own fault. He's the one with the character sheet in front of him. If he doesn't include it don't use it. Also try green texting for an easier read.

I have a player like that.
Now I make him do his roll on roll20 with a tablet. I can track his sheet and to roll for anything he has a macro.
It's much, MUCH better than before

...

I bet you more than half the players bitching about D&D never played it

"I cast suggestion."
"Ok, what's the save DC?"
"..."
"What's the save DC?"
"I don't know."
"You should know that, check your character sh-"
"What does suggestion do by the way?"

"So your character runs away from the main plot, and goes on to have many exciting adventures on his own. He'll go on to become a legend. Now roll up a new character who's going to be a part of THIS story."

Honestly calculating all those stats and feats for damage is pretty complicated. When I played a Barb I wrote down that I did 2d8+88 just so I didn't have to work it out every turn.

> City attacked by dragons at night.
> Half the city is ablaze.
> PCs rush in as fast as they can.
> Face 3 bloodlusted lizardfolk barbarians.
> First two rounds, the barbarians take cover.
> Manage to down two out of the threes in the first few rounds.
> Know there's more, including a kobold sorcerer ahead who's coup-de-gracing civilians.
> Lizardfolk barbarian just too dangerous to ignore.
> Sending spell
> Magic Central:
We're losing civilians left and right, Commander. We have to move fast or this capital will be wiped out.
>...
> A few hours later.
> City burned down, but somehow the region is maintained.
> Fighter received a mean critical.
> No magical healing because FUCK YOU.
> Recover like 5 hp per day.
> Out for 19 days.
> 3 Days later, friendlies find a fort where the scaled folks develop magically imbued fire arrows.
> Either we go with a SEVERELY wounded fighter, or he must take up a replacement character. That doesn't even have a PC class. yet. Yay Human Warrior!
> Decide not to go get killed.
> Blamed by everyone.

If you got no bard/cleric/druid and/or wands of curative magic, that's actually pretty close to Pathfinder.

I have a player that wanted to play as a Vampire but didn't want to get tied down to a "coffin" and complained when everything around his coffin started to wilt and die.

He also got annoyed all the time when people were aloof of him. He spent most of the game disguised and being incredibly Charismatic in typical Vampire fashion but when things went wrong he'd always just run away.

We spent like 2 sessions with him trying to talk his way out of being killed by a band of Paladins and Clerics and complained whrn they didn't listen to his pleas.

This is a valid solution and what we had to do for him, in the end.
I'm more complaining that even after 18 months we had to do this for him.

>things that never happened or did, and she's a hambeast with no concept of hygiene

> 3 months into a campaign.
> 6 months into campaign.
> 18 months in.
You're having a combat encounter, at best, one every 3 months! What do you expect?!?

Actually, most people who bitch about it have played it and usually started off as a martial.

There is no bigger kick to the dick than rolling up a Monk and realizing that you're being outclassed by wild animal.

Wow, this is the first person I can think of that made playing martial look complex. And it only took him year and half!

Last month I went full sperg, removed all the problem players, reclaimed position as DM for a bit, and continued the same campaign I've been trying to play for a year now. We've nearly gotten to third level now but it's still like a month between sessions.

>playing an unoptimized wizard, because I just want to be an old guy that throws around some spells
>run across displacement and invisibility spells
>decide to be a team player and pick them up
>enemies all start to sport true seeing
>highest level spells now effectively useless

I get that spells can mess up good encounter design, but there has to be a better workaround than just making enemies negate them.

Caught me red handed.

As an afterthought, I'll add this:
He played a Swashbuckler that specialised in guns.
Aka the class that goes "Damn I like the class mechanics for the gunslinger, but wish I didn't have to use guns with it."

I kind of like detecting spells having a power value and all spells they look at having a defense value of some sort so the more powerful your wizard, the less likely a monster with true seeing actually sees the invisible players. Or maybe at least making it less fucking common of a feature.
Oh and one more thing: In PF all core races but human have low-light vision. Why not just make that the base and give humans a penalty?

Jesus Christ, I remember this.

Ran a Pathfinder campaign a little while back. Went on for almost three years, started at level 1 and ran all the way to 16. And every single fucking session, the rogue would ask the same fucking questions.
>How do I use my sneak attacks?
>What am I supposed to add to damage?
>My rapier has a crit of 18-20, what does that mean?
>Can I take a Reflex save to dodge that attack?
Every session up to and including the very last one. Honestly, I'm amazed she lasted that long.

And another thing.
>Players writing temporary buffs on their character sheets
>No explanation of what they're for or how long they last
>Forget to remove them after they expire
>"I don't remember where I got this +5 bonus, gonna apply it anyway and not say so until questioned"
It's like they think I leave pads of Post-Its around the room for fucking Feng Shui or something. Temporary buffs on temporary paper makes sense, right?

Playing a martial is actually pretty thought intensive since you're stacking so many bonuses and keeping track of so many penalties just to swing a dinky ass sword.

It's just that, in the end, all you're doing is rolling dice and dealing damage while the mage can actually change the nature of battle with one spell.

I remember the first game I ran someone asked if he could use acrobatics to dodge more than once. We mocked him so much that "acrobatics to dodge" became a running joke for the entire time I played with them.

If adding is too complex for you, you can do it only once and note down in the "Attacks" section with all common bonuses. I suppose you're not retarded to the point of being unable to add/subtract 2 to it for circumstance bonuses, and even Power Attack is set by you.

Oh, wait, most people in this board are american. Now I get it.

>durr

The post-it idea is great. Plus, flashy yellow color means you won't forget as often. Consider it stolen.

AND I'M NEVER GIVING IT BACK!

When you have to keep track of static and circumstantial bonuses from five different sources, while also keeping track of any penalties that you're currently suffering from, while at the same time having to keep track of your damage and shit, it becomes a bit much for an action that's so weak in the grand scheme of the game.

I mean, I've had an easier time filing taxes than I did playing a Fighter who was stacking bonuses from all the feats and shit I had.

Then you have actual problems with adding. Seriously, you can write it down ONCE to add it all up and just add +1 every time you level up. If you can't handle stactic +1~5 bonuses, you're just too dumb to play a fighter, and that says a lot.

Damage is the same, but even easier. If [dice]+STR+[fixed] is too much for you, I suggest going back to elementary school.

> Shadowrun
> Firing a short burst of automatic shotgun with a medium spread, at 22 meters, with heavy rain, moderate wind, having shot the round before so keep in mind recoil and recoil compensation and while jogging, on a moonless night with thermal vision, a smartgun system a moving target and low cover.
Some games should have warning labels "For Autistic People / By Autistic People".

> This is my regular set of basic attack.
> This is my regular set of power attack
> This is my Vital Strike
> This is my Power Vital Strike Attack
> This is my regular set of attack under the spell Haste
> This is my regular set of Power Attacks under Haste
> This is my regular set of attacks while I rage.
> This is my regular set of Power Attacks while I rage.
> This is my regular set of attacks while I rage and am Hasted.
> This is my Raging Vital Strike.
> This is my regular set of attacks under Bless and Haste.
> This is my regular set of Power Attacks under Bless and Haste.
> This is my regular set of Power Attacks under Haste, Bless, and Rage.
> This is my Vital Strike under...

And then, there's your defensive buffs.

Other modifiers:
> Using an off-hand weapon or not.
> Heroism spell
> Magic Weapon
> Sickened, Shaken and other conditions.
> I hope you did not forget you received 2 points of STR damage.
> Good thing it was offset by Bull's Strength, so actually that's a plus 1.
> The guy is from an elevated position, so -1.
> Forgot the Aid Another from his minion, that's -2.
> Now the Furyborn enchantment bonus is +3, keep that in mind
> Wait, you're enlarged. This does not affect your to-hit, but your damage dice changed to 2d8.
> And you have to roll for concealment.

I like stories with a happy ending :)

And this shit is just to swing a sword at somebody.

>paladins and clerics have a right to kill whoever they want because the law doesn't protect "evil" people
This is the dumbest shit ever.

Only topped in its stupidity by padins and alignment.

> paladins and clerics have a right to kill whoever they want because the law doesn't protect "evil" people
Considering how 90%+ of the population is neither an Evil Cleric, an Antipaladin (or anything else with an Aura of Evil) and that Detect Evil can't detect Evil characters of level 4 and less, it is also scary.

>Invincible enemy
>Fun
You can only pick one user.

It's probably for the best another Pathfinder group fell apart

I'd disagree with you here except for the fact that it didn't sound much like this vampire really did anything that would've gotten paladins and clerics chasing after him. Otherwise, it could've been totally justified as a vampire hunt.

I'm biased because I'm a paladin player, but I don't think things are that bad as long as the player of the paladin knows his shit.

I dunno, looking back on it it was pretty fucking funny. It's like how later in the game I tried to use color spray and I got grapes.

> Fun
> Funny
Once again, pick one. Sacrificing a campaign for a quick "welp, we're fucked" chuckle is not fun.

I mean, if we're going to be autistic and rack up every single thing in the game, sure
I'm not this other guy, and I'm not going to pretend there aren't a lot of modifiers, but at the end of the day this is pretty simple addition.

>Player decides that my character killed his character's family in his backstory
>Never runs it by me before bringing it up in-character
>mfw he's genuinely surprised that I don't immediately play along without complaint

I mean I probably would've rolled with it if he just had the courtesy to bring it up beforehand, all things considering, but it's still inconsiderate as fuck of him.

> I mean, if we're going to be autistic and rack up every single thing in the game, sure
That's the only way to get any kind of result as a fighter. Besides, most of these you barely got a say in. You become the wizard's class ability.

> I'm not this other guy, and I'm not going to pretend there aren't a lot of modifiers, but at the end of the day this is pretty simple addition.
Yeah, the addition is the simple part. Nobody ever said that 1d20+8+5+2+4+1-3 / 1d20+3+5+2+4-3 for 2d6+7+2+4+1+9 damage is hard to calculate.

But it's a pain to remember which variable gets to be thrown in.

And these bonuses / trade-offs and spells are just too good to solve problems you can swing a weapon at not to use.

I've actually seen worst kind of munchkins choosing wild magic only because it *might* give them huge bonus. It's very humorous when it usually doesn't, but really just sad to see it happen.