Meta Currency

I'm fine with meta currently. I'm not fine with the excess of meta currently.

When players are logging around more then ten fate points per session, it's time to stop.

Bait for the.... seriously, this bait is underwhelming man.

Step it up.

Is this pasta that I've seen before or is it just conceptually tired bait to the point of inducing déjà vu?

You're kidding, right?

Alternatively, meta currency is used as a band-aid to cover up poor adventure design and an inability to react to unexpected negative outcomes. Encounters become less tense and meaningful when the players are toting around get out of jail free cards, and the players don't get the opportunity to come up with creative solutions for failing a major challenge or losing a party member.

Of course, like literally any other mechanic ever they can be used well and meaningfully, but really what good are nuanced and understanding opinions?

I'm recalling some of the Cortex stuff, like the Marvel game, that gets you XP during for hitting certain milestones and plot hooks during the arc or scene.

>"I angst about being Asian-American for a round! How much XP does that get me?"

very clearly a girl. check the cleavage. just a tomboyish face.

>It is not what you did, it's who you did it to
>That nobody, is John Wick

Baseless supposition.

Some people literally have nothing better to do with their lives but go onto anonymous internet image boards and whine about people liking what they don't like.

I've been on Veeky Forums for some time now, and it still flabbergasts me how common this is.

That's a heck of an opinion you got there, Mr. Wick. Kind of inflammatory in the way you said it.

>He fears this will result in forced, insincere interaction purely for the sake of bonuses in the sorts of players for whom the incentives are intended

So the rollplayers roleplay in order to minmax. If your goal is to encourage roleplay, where's the problem? You're scratching both itches. Is it that it's not "authentic"? What does that even mean, and why does that have value in this context? If the fear is of repetitive pseudo-roleplay to maximize payout, then diminishing returns force novelty.

>Such gamemasters are overly controlling, addicted to railroading
Ironically, "bennies" in Savage Worlds give, when the DM has them, the ABILITY to railroad, and make the narrative not go a way they didn't prepare for. What you are actually arguing against, OP, is not railroading, it's the game being a real simulation over a controlled narrative, and what you are arguing for is not player agency, it's player infallibility. You want to have a special narrative point to bail your ass out when you make a stupid choice when by all means, you shouldn't make it through okay.

I'm in favor of severely limiting them, at least depending on how they're used and how often they're given out. I'd probably cap at 3-5, with the higher number being the maximum possible, and they'd be hard to earn or at least very limited in that that's all you get at the start of the session.

Mophidius's 2d20 system does have two kinds of meta-currency, one for the GM and one for the player, and players and GMs can barter with them in order to grease the wheels of the game. Players having those tokens can help them smooth along action, avoiding hard consequences until their tokens run out, and GMs can use theirs to make life difficult for the players, even building up a stock and unleashing them all at once on the PCs.

Perhaps my favorite bit is that they can actually help a GM lead players down the rails a little easier. GM wants everybody captured without rolls in order to get people down the rails? Well, everybody gets a token as compensation, so you're not straight out resources by getting caught, you get a little plot power in return. Then if you have crafty players they can use their newfound tokens to help them get out of their situation. The druid can befriend a rat in his cell, the rogue can scrounge up a bit of wire to undo his bindings, and the wizard can find a few spell components from the floor of his cell or the hallway or something.

Huh, I guess that contradicts the assertion in , then; a GM doesn't have to be completely opposed to player agency to hate meta-currency, and meta-currency does nothing to abolish the railroad, it can just serve as grease for interaction when used in an ideal situation.

It's pasta

Some GMs take issue with the attitude behind a player's actions

If you want someone to do something, but they're upset about it and only do it because they just want this shit to be over already, you likely aren't going to be pleased even though you got exactly what you wanted out of them.

To some GMs, rollplaying is something to be "cured" or at the very least filtered out of the group. They don't want to suffer having one even if they are provided a carrot to get them to roleplay more.

Wouldn't it make more sense to call it "System Currency" since they're enforced by the system? When you said "meta currency" I thought you meant like, paying the GM real money for him to do something.

Mutants and Masterminds had something similar called "Hero Points." They gave a player the option to do different things, like allow the reroll of a failed roll of any sort at a crucial moment, including Toughness saves to avoid damage. You could use it to avoid fatigue. There was still a chance of failure, though slim. No one ever had more than one Hero Point at a time.

We liked the rule, and saved them for critical moments when everything was on the line. If I were GM, I wouldn't have a problem with using them.

>handing out artificial rewards to bribe your players for playing the game

You're on the wrong board. MMOs belong on

...

>handing out artificial rewards to bribe your players for playing the game
>MMOs
This is something literally impossible to put into an MMO. I cannot ask for a clue, trade for a favorable minor event to intervene, or add anything to the scene in an MMO, yet, karma, force points, destiny, Emergency Dice etc. allows me to do that.

That said, 4th Ed's Action points ARE shit, I agree, and 4th Ed feels like an MMO. Doesn't means both are related.

IMHO, I like FFG's Edge of the Empire's way to do this. Force Points are resources the GM and players pass back and forth for extra complications / help.

While excellent, non-railroady games can avoid use of meta-currency, it is an easy way to give players a form of agency.

Ha!

No. I don't like them neither as gm, nor as player. I prefer roleplaying games to collaborative storytelling games. I want to play as my character, not as a story editor.

That said, used sparingly or in-character they're okay. But rampant scene editing, making declarations of what's there and who is there? Not so much.

Forcing a reroll on enemy attacks using a hard to replenish meta currency? Sure.

If your character has literal "see into and manipulate the future" powers or supernaturally good luck protecting them from harm? Sure. Go for it.

>"You fell into a heap of thrash. When you look around, you see the door is closed and locked. The walls start to move. In a minute you'll be crushed"
> "Is there some debris we could use to block the mechanism and give us more time to escape?"
The GM is taken by surprise by the suggestion, expecting PCs to quickly turn to lockpicking, brute force, or demolition skills.
> "I don't know..."
Rolls two dies.
> "You don't see any."
> "If I trade one Light side point?"
> "Upon closer inspection, in the bottom corner of the room, what appeared like part of the room structure is actually a thrashed steel beam."
> "I try to place it between the wall as to jam the mechanism."
Rolls a check.
> "It wasn't easy, as you found the beam a bit too long, but anchored it solidly and it jammed the mechanism."
> "Good. Now we have time to think."

Scene editing or good improv?

Scene editing.

The roll to determine if there's another way out, i like.

The universal points to spend too make a scene go your way, not so much.

If the character in question was a Jedi specializing in probability control or precognition, and had a relevant power, id be fine with it.

But as a general use of light side points anybody can access for no reason, that's the kind of scene editing i don't enjoy playing games with, whether in using them, gming with them, or playing alongside someone who is using them.

One, I check your dubs.

Two, I respect your point of view.

Three, I would probably enjoy playing in one of your games with or without meta-currency.

Four, I still enjoy meta-currency, including what you call "Scene Editing". So you would probably dislike my games. Or, at least, that part would annoy you.

I tend to allow players A LOT of agency, including encouraging improvising minor NPCs to humor themselves with when the action is dealt elsewhere (E.G.: Two PCs sneak in to investigate the back rooms of a bar, while another watches. Another player that's not in the scene decides a patron of the bar want to socialize with the guy standing watch. They start a conversation.

I like scene-editing as long as it fits the theme, isn't meant to shift circumstances in PCs favor for free and meta-currency allows for a limited use of it.

Now I ramble, I am due for a few hours of sleep. G'night user.

Holy shit I just cringed so hard picturing this. I hate role playing games because of this, but I love their systems

>That said, 4th Ed's Action points ARE shit, I agree, and 4th Ed feels like an MMO.

4th edition action points are not a meta-reward for roleplay tho, nor can they be used for narrative contrivances, so they really aren't applicable to this situation.

Ah.

I give my Players a lot of narrative control in that I always (these days) run sandbox games with several concurrent plotlines and characters/factions acting on a timeline, and the pcs can do or not do whatever they want with the world reacting to their actions.

But scene editing is not normally something i let them do.

Once in a while i do give them control over some minor npc with a couple points about the npcs current goal and basic personality, if their character is far away or dead.

I do hope my games are fun for the players, that's part of the goal.

Have a good sleep user

>take feats and character options to maximize meta currency
>get the ability to spend it on others

>buff my teammates by being tsundere

> I do hope my games are fun for the players, that's part of the goal.
In the end, isn't it the goal?

> Two, I respect your point of view.
> Have a good sleep user
I had to doublecheck whether I was still on Veeky Forums or not.

>allowing in-game options to effect meta-currency

I'm mostly against this, but I don't see why it can't work if done correctly. I mostly think players would abuse the shit out of it if they could, especially against other players.

I'm more a fan of giving everyone an equal playing field in the metagame.

Part of the goal, yes. My own enjoyment is also important.

I'm only rude to anons who are rude to me first, not anons who simply disagree with me.

If you can disagree with me like a reasonable person, you can expect a courteous response.

Clearly I'm not the only one here who thinks that way.

I'm

I don't want an equal metacurrency playing field, obviously. I'd prefer you only get them if your character has the scene editing powers in-character.

I kinda like it, it lets me play a character who is less conventionally powerful statwise while being on a level playing field. Since my character is a magician, I like to fluff it as subtle uses of magic, such as telekinetically assisting an arrows flight, providing magical barriers, and most of all just plain encouragement.

Someone needs to play FFG Star Wars.

I have a meta-currency in my system and it's the players "Let Me Be Awesome" button
More Dice!
More Narrative Fun!
More Everything!

Except my players have the creative power of a brick and make meme-characters who don't do anything

>anyone who disagrees with me must be a terrible GM

Whoever wrote that is a pretentious idiot who should off himself.

waiter this pasta is cold

it was written by someone specifically trying to elicit this reaction dog

"Meta currency" is an out of character resource in an in character game. It would be fun for a board game or a drinking game - but not a standard pen and paper session.

Without these metapoints the players should already have immense control of the game and the flow of the game.

And with them, any gm with a little bit of determination could take away any player control anyways.

Thus, they are utterly meaningless as a benefit, but they have an overall negative impact on the game by focusing on the OOC players - and not their characters.

5/10 bait, obvious but very tempting. Like a blatant succubus who shows up in your room.

>"Meta currency" is an out of character resource in an in character game. It would be fun for a board game or a drinking game - but not a standard pen and paper session.

That's a pretty narrow definition.

Does this timeline work out for you?

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y5Rba9kYyye7aqrsMTgBkXjVHBwRvQnXpG159XKqSZQ/edit#gid=0

link related is what I did for my sandbox political warlord game. Many things happening all around really made the players lose focus, making them run around like headless chickens.

Even though it's a flexible timeline ( I will have events wait on them, if they decided to go someplace they heard something about, for example ), the players eventually felt reaaaaally stressed out by the overwhelming action going on all around them.

Don't speak German, but at a glance it looks okay.

And yeah, if they don't realize everything will go on with or without them and try to follow every hook, they get disoriented.

That's a matter of not being familiar with sandbox games.

If it's a new group i like to start them with several hooks at once that include the deadlines. Sorry of ease them into it.

Some of the hooks will be for people they may decide to help instead of hover, too.

Good luck !

Sortof ease them into it *

The real fact is that metacurrency has nothing to do with narrative control - or to be more precise, they have no inherent relationship.

If I, as a player, say "I recognise that NPC - I went to school with them ten years ago" then the GM has no inherent power to say "no you didn't" more than anyone else at the table does.

Unless, for some reason, you know the NPCs backstory in detail, then the GM does, in fact, have the power to say "No you don't, he never went to school in the US."