MTG Modern General

Who here is Jund? Let's talk strategy and laugh at poorfags who can't afford to be partician.

On a more serious note, how good is kalitas? I see him a lot as a two of, but I think he costs too much and is slow. Thoughts?

Kalitas in Mardu is pretty dank

I've been testing mono white taxes. Like BW but with more tax, less hand disruption & flicker, plays a lot like legacy. Thalia (both flavors) are amazing in the deck.

>two color manabase
>10 fetchlands

dude...

>Mardu = Jund
fucking kek

>not running as many feches as possible for maximum deck thinning™
See me after class user-kun

>On a more serious note, how good is kalitas? I see him a lot as a two of, but I think he costs too much and is slow. Thoughts?
Not a Jundfag but I would run him just for the incidental grave hate and lifegain.

The more you can defeat narrow, linear strategies like Burn and Dredge with mainboard cards the more space you have in your sideboard for other matchups. That's one of the things that made Deathrite Shaman so powerful.

But you already have life gain and he's a non-bo with path. His body is mediocre too.

>burning life in a tempo deck for next to no reason

The games won't last long enough for you to profit from "thinning". T12-15 the game will be long over.

Then why do people use "tier" incorrectly then?

Example being " X deck is good, but not good enough to be tier 1"

..So it's not good enough to be popular?

I mean, I see the use of a popularity chart, but the word tier here is definitely misleading.

Popularity is usually related to powerlevel, as people tend to gravitate toward stronger decks.

Just because people use it incorrectly doesn't mean that it isn't a useful concept.

There are some decks that likely won't ever be Tier 1 because of their nature. For instance, Ad Nauseam is a good deck that can ace tournaments but it probably won't ever see play as a Tier 1 deck because of how fragile, slow, and non-interactive it is. If enough people started playing it to make it tier 1, a similar amount of targeted discard and fast aggro would be there to knock it down.

Most Tier 1 decks have that title because they don't really have any bad matchups or are capable of just muscling through their bad matches with a good draw. This makes them a good choice for most events, so they see more play and usually get more results. But this doesn't mean they're good decks that always get results, Affinity and Burn have really bad conversion rates from day 1 to day 2 but still are tier 1 because of how popular they are and how they shape every other deck's sideboard.

>tfw making good results with Esper Rally
The green splash is actually the most important part.

Don't 100% agree with this because people tend to gravitate what's strong AND easy enough to play (see Burn in T1). But yeah, I get what you mean.

>Just because people use it incorrectly doesn't mean that it isn't a useful concept.
Yeah, not arguing that it's not useful, it really is useful, but I think the word tier is directly associated with strict power level.

>There are some decks that likely won't ever be Tier 1 because of their nature. For instance, Ad Nauseam is a good deck that can ace tournaments but it probably won't ever see play as a Tier 1 deck because of how fragile, slow, and non-interactive it is. If enough people started playing it to make it tier 1, a similar amount of targeted discard and fast aggro would be there to knock it down.

This is a good point I really didn't consider, and sort of ties in power level directly with popularity.

The whole thing is still a little off to me, but I guess that clears up a bit of the thought process.

youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

Kalitas is great when followed up with a removal spell the same turn. everytime i draw Kalitas its in the lategame where Huntmaster would have been better. his upside is insane though.

I have been trying out Courser of Kruphix as a two of and i love him.

Kalitas is pretty cool guy, nothing crazy but he's on par with Huntmaster or P&K. Legendaries trigger my autism so I'd split them up a bit, but running 2-3 is good too.

He's really nice vs abzan combo, P&K is better vs affinity and Huntmaster can take over a grindy game (so can Kalitas, that guy wins stalls and his active ability is so damn underrated in races)

Kali is best if you can kill something as he drops; I highly recommend a Slaughter Pact and/or a Seal of Fire, that way you can get value even if they remove him.

Olivia has been swept aside but lately I feel like she could be really damn good in the mirror. Everyone is jamming Kalitas these days, and she can steal him which might be next level.

If you run tarfire/seal, I would tinker with a one-of that new 5cmc spider (dank dwellers is fine too). He just seems really damn good, I said it before but I swear R&D nerfed him before release, and he still looks good. 4 decent bodies, all with reach, that's a lot of board control for 5 mana (assuming delirium, which is a dumb mechanic imo, but it's the curve topper so it's not too restrictive)

Magic metas at their best are much more complicated than Street Fighter metas because of the variation between decklists and the effect that variance has on tournaments. SF doesn't really have variance so its easy to identify what the best characters are just by looking at their stats, moves, hitboxes w/e. In magic a bunch of players put a lot of thought into their lists to try and win but ultimately factors like variance and small changes between lists determine who wins and loses, as well as skill ofc. So we can't just look at a decks "stats" to see if its good or not, we have to look at a combination of the popularity and results of each archetype to rank them.

When at Competitive Rules Enforcement Level events such as GP and PTTQ (GPTs are now supposed to be run at same judging level as FNMs), be vary of your sleeves. If your sleeves have any kind of marks, you could get a game loss if your opponent calls for a judge. My friend played Eternal Masters sealed, opened a JTMS and double sleeved it for good measure. His opponent saw the double sleeved card in his otherwise monosleeved deck and called a judge, who promptly gave my friend a game loss for playing with a marked card.

For real, how true is this?

I'm a draft baby looking to get into an eternal format, but I keep reading things like this. Is modern brew-able, or am I gonna have to copy a $1200 list and hope for a good opening hand?

> The inclusion of lands in the main deck is just stupid.

Ok, I play belcher/burn or just target your non-land library with balustrade spy.

It's brew-able, but you better don't even try it as your deck will be horrible (like 95% of people who try to brew but they can't do it for shit).

Probably as horrible as pic related.

>double sleeving a draft deck

For what purpose? Wastes a hell of alot of time.

>eternal masters draft
>pull karakas
>gee I guess I won't waste my time on double sleeving it.

He pulled a price sculptor senpai.

I swear by Elfdritch Evolution. The deck is both inexpensive and pretty impressive for a meme.

18 forests
12 mana elves
4 dwynens elite
4 elvish visionary
4 lead the stampede
2 sylvan messenger
2-4 elvish mystic
1 ezuri
1 maybe dwynen

(expensive components)
4 evo
4 allosaurus
2-4 heritage druid

You can even run 2 boreal druid if you go full budget

Add 2 monters like iona, terastadon, hornet queen, void winnower, elesh norn, cratorhoof, whatever you want. Decimator of provinces, though he can't be tutored by evolution, is really fun in the deck too. Evo gets you messenger, which with stampede gives you so much fodder.

As far as modern decks go this is really inexpensive and surprisingly good. Can be upgraded slowly with lands like pendalhaven, okina, nyx, and cavern of souls, and converted into regular elves for a bit more dosh too.

And I pulled a Mana Crypt and a Top and even then regular sleeving will be enough for a single pod draft(presuming 8 player pod FNM type event) even with MMS or EMA sets. Not like it was a foil card or anything.

If you pulled a 60 dollar mythic in your draft, you too would double sleeve that card ASAP, unless you're a monkey. And when you're playing at CREL events where you get a game loss when caught playing with one double-sleeved card in an otherwise mono-sleeved deck, the solution becomes one of the following:
>Don't play the double-sleeved card
>Double-sleeve your entire deck
By all means try to brew something, but don't spend a single penny on cards until you're confident that your deck is actually good. And the only way to determine if your deck is actually good, is by playing against good decks and not other shit brews. We recently had a new deck type rising with Part the Waterveil being printed in BFZ, opening up for the mono blue Extra Turns deck, so brewing is certainly possible. But if you're not familiar with the format, sleeving up proxies of Burn and playing against other decks is a good way to get into it.

This looks like the list that Hoogland was testing

>elves
>no coco
>no penis-inspector

Esper Gifts Dredge? Dredging an Unburial Rites and Iona into your yard is pretty solid too.

>Things in Esper that are good in your yard
Rites + Iona/Elesh Norn
Lingering Souls
Snapcaster in hand
Prized Amalgam/Bloodghast

Also a question. If one of your two cards off Gifts is a Narcomoeba, does the game consider it as going from your library to your yard and thus triggering?

>calling it "dredge"
>no troll
>no red enablers

How do you even want to go off?

If you're going to double sleeve, then double sleeve ALL your cards, not just one. I feel for your friend but not surprised that it happened to him in a Comp Rel event. Personally speaking I wouldn't have given a shit to call a judge on your friend if he was my opponent but i'd definitely warn him that this is a rule breaking violation that someone else will call him out on.

Even still for a sealed pool i wouldn't double sleeve at all given that sealed sometimes on the pool can allow you to build 2 different decks sometimes so to even double sleeve that amount is. And no I wouldn't double sleeve a 60 mythic in my draft/sealed straight away either given that time is an issue especially so at Comp REL given that even 1 minute late is grounds for a game loss and I'm the guy that pulled a Crypt and a SDT in his packs up above.

If it was a FOIL JTMS then sure I can understand the need to double sleeve it not just for value protection but also to keep a consistently sleeved deck that will eliminate any possible judge calls on playing with a foil in your deck that asinine opponents will attempt to call a judge on you for.

mtgtop8.com/event?e=12841&d=274550&f=MO
Superfriends deck are now viable! Where's that casual faggot?

No Troll? Nigger no one in the history of Magic has actually cast that fucker. He's literally there for the dredge 6 part of his card. And apparently Narcomoeba does work with Gifts, so Gifts can literally just let me flash in at least 4/4 of P/T in my opponent's turn if nothing else. Vryn's Prodigy will most likely be good here too.

Gifts ungiven says search your library for up to four cards and reveal them. Then put two in your graveyard and the rest in your hand. The cards don't chance zone while going from the library to the graveyard. So I can only assume that Nacromoeba will trigger.

>GRB
>Jund

Whoever made this should be ashamed.

Will Bedlam Reveler see some play in modern? He doesn't sound too bad in some burn decks, considering he fills up your hand and isn't too bad of a creature even in burn.

I tried the card in commander and have no idea what it's good for, even there.

He's looking great for Storm/Pyromancer.

>no idea what it's good for
Some cards are just for Standard/Limited.

Nice, maybe I can even get some money out of a foil of him then.

He stops big threats like Voice, Wurmcoil and any of the persist creatures, dodges bolt and abrupt decay and can stabilize a board that's behind or close the game if you're ahead. I run 2 of him and 2 Huntmasters in Jund. Both are absolute houses.

How is Shattering Spree working out with so few red sources?
I'm gonna try this list for a while. The signets are for being able to cast Engineered Explosives for any amount of colors I fancy.

As always, I forgot to post the list.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meek-thopters-3/

List 404'd, the Spree was something I threw in without too much thought while building sb, should really go but I haven't found anything I want in that slot yet.

if you want to brew play pauper, modern is a glass cannon format of :
>How fast can i goldfish to kill my opponent
That does not mean that is not fun, i like playing monoU tron, but infect and burn are a pain in the ass

Fuck off. Balustrade spy is my line

>The games won't last long enough for you to profit from "thinning". T12-15 the game will be long over.
So his deck no, but it's ~10 card draws where it starts to matter. If he was sphinx-ing for 15 it would matter.

ye I hate when I rev for 15 and only draw lands

Bedlam Reveler in Storm is an interesting idea.

Flooded Strand in for a Scalding Tarn I am in the process of trading for.
Any suggestions? Bedlam Reveler has been performing incredibly well in testing.

//Creature (12)
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

//Instant (20)
1 Desperate Ravings
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
1 Murderous Cut
3 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Terminate
4 Thought Scour

//Sorcery (7)
1 Dreadbore
2 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions

//Land (21)
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave

SB: 1 Dreadbore
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Hex Parasite
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 2 Leyline of Singularity
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Shadow of Doubt
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Sowing Salt

I mean, infect does this and it's t1

That paper meta is strange. Tron, Company, and Burn in tier 2. Ad Nauseam and Scapeshift in tier 3. Is it concerning that so few decks are tier 1 now?

I'd honestly rather run Pia or Lord of Innistrad.

Not really. It's natural for Tier 1 of anything to be rather small, hell I think Modern is actually pretty healthy in that regard. A lot of decks are just instantly pushed out because the top decks just do that particular thing better.

Like, if you are a Midrange grindy deck, and you aren't Jund, you aren't going to be Tier 1. Because Jund just does this particular thing better.

If you are an aggro deck, you aren't going to be faster than Infect/Affinity. In any environment, people will figure out what the optimal line for a particular strategy is, and those builds/characters/etc become T1.

Combo decks in Modern are always going to be relegated to T3 because they're vulnerable, and slow-as-shit. Combo is a viable archetype when it can kill as fast or faster than a good Aggro deck when goldfishing. Occasionally it can steal an event just by being an outlier and correctly predicting a metagame, but they can never be actual metagame-shapers unless the prior condition is met.

How is krufix? I was always wondering what it's used for/ match ups. It's kind of a pet card for me.

>A lot of decks are just instantly pushed out because the top decks just do that particular thing bette
that actually sounds sort of sad

>Nigger no one in the history of Magic has actually cast that fucker. He's literally there for the dredge 6 part of his card.

that's the point of the troll, it's the best dredge enabler, and forcing "autist" dredge you're passing on him and enablers.

Are you running groundswell?

>Combo decks in Modern are always going to be relegated to T3
>Scapeshift and Kiki in the top 3 of T2 right now

Close.

What are some good sideboard options for BW Tokens against Merfolk? Always a shit matchup

not playing a tier 4 deck usually works for me in that matchup

Damnation.

It's a great sideboard card in tthe right deck. I play a control deck that's good against the tier one decks but is pretty bad against Living End and Elves, so I run three jund charm.

I feel like four chalice of the void make the matchup not too bad.

I think they're saying whoever made should be ashamed, because it's in the wrong order.

>jund bros love huntmaster
You haven't seen the true power of the wolfman until you play him in a RUG shell. Flippin all day long and never dies.

dumb question

Switcheroo - Sorcery - Exchange control of two target creatures

does that mean I take 2 of my opponents creatures, or does that mean I swap 1 of my creatures for 1 of their creatures?

>dumb question
Sure is

I thought you card nerds were supposed to be welcoming and nice

>Target one
>Target the other
>Switch places
There you go, nothing special

Well I mean, there really is no mistaking what the card meant. Would you call it a switcheroo if you just took two objects from someone?

that is true, I was just looking at Vedalken Plotter which says "When Vedalken Plotter comes into play, exchange control of target land you control and target land an opponent controls"

So I thought switcharoo would be more literal like this

He has been great so far. I used to play Kitchen Finks in that slot before i decided to switch. Courser just does so much work. 4 toughness means he blocks for days and doesn't die to just one bolt. His ability to place lands from the top of your deck is so good when you are just digging for removal/an actual threat. the life gain is sugar on top. i would play courser over finks any day of the week

Rate my tutelage fog deck...fairly budget compared to average modern deck. Just started in modern so haven't used it much, but it seemsto work well so far
>4x hedron crab
>4x sphinx's tutelage
>4x howling mine
>4x temple bell
>4x holy day
>4x ethereal haze
>4x thought scour
>3x serum visions
>3x archive trap
>3x visions of beyond
>4x flooded strand
>4x glacial fortress
>3x hallowed fountain
>4x ghost quarters
>5x island
>3x plains
Sideboard is a mess, a couple supreme verdicts, leyline of sanctity, some more countermagic and enchantment removal.
Thoughts?

why would i play rug when jund exists

Because it's a totally different kind of deck. Jund is pretty boring and simple

no. 4 become immense, 4 might, 4 mutagenic growth

you thought wrong. I'm p sure magic nerds actually have a reputation for being unwelcoming elitists who shit on people not playing tier decks so idek where you got that idea.

Competitive players, yeah.
The mistake here was asking in the competitive threads instead of the Ask a Judge thread. You only get shit in the AaJ thread if you try to insist you know better than everyone else after you're proven wrong.

Alright, there's a few problems but they can be resolved easily.
>temple bell
It's too slow, compared to a howling mine having the extra mana and a turn earlier is awesome. So what if they draw first, your point is to mill them out. Id drop the bell to at most a 2 of because you don't want infinite mines, you need fogs and wincon
>hedron crab
Seems okay, it's a wall but there are better walls. Wall of omens x4 and wall of essence x2 will do more for you. Sure crab Mills but once your engine is going it doesn't take much to draw them out. As well wall of omens replaces itself and that is very important for having fogs
>archive trap
It isn't a fog and is dead if you need a fog effect. I'd replace with either cryptic (a counter and a fog is insane for you) or jace, architect of thought (his + is a "fog" his - is card advantage and his ult wins games against certain decks)
Move at least 2 verdicts to your main, you *need* path to exile. That card is your bread and butter. I run 4x of them and 1 reality shift to deal with problem permanents
You need dawn charms, theyre fogs and help deal with burn, riot control is also good against burn. You need to negate about 70 damage reasonably if you want to beat burn (if they break your tutelages ans draw out their deck)
One of my favourite spells for this deck as a counter is swan song. You have a 1 mana counter for instants and sourceries and the downside to the card is they get a body that will never hit you.
As for your sideboard I really like kor firewalker. As long as you have counters for their skullcracks he can block most of burn. You also need answers to tron (bribery)

When you're building a grindy midrange deck, always ask yourself this: is it better than jund?
If not, stop building it. In this case the answer is no.

become immense/groundswell is the reason why infect runs so many fetchlands. UW spirits have no reason to do so.

Rug usually isn't midrange.
Delver or combo

Jund memers are the worst. Temur midrange isn't even bad. Jund is just established as good so all players flock to it

>goyf
>counterspells
>huntmaster
>GDD
>Ancestral Vision (see above for value)
>Clique

It has much more but I think dismissing decks for
>LMAO not Jund
is pretty lame.

yeah I know, I was just being a smartass and pointing out that technically a 2 color manabase with 10 fetches can be fine.

delver in modern *is* midrange or even control bc the cantrips suck fat cock.

Stubborn denial's great in rug too.

Blue midrange decks are always a funny one. Midrange is generally dudes ie. sorcery speed, which don't work well with instants. Not to mention counter spells in Modern are fucking awful. The lack of Thoughtseize is also huge. You never wondered why the best 3 colour decks were black? Even the Mardu shitters know they need it.

My point is that you run Troll even if you aren't running green because of the dredge 6.

You don't need thoughtseize as much when you have counters. Mana leak, stubborn denial and to some extent simic charm all work pretty well.

I disagree that instants don't work well with creatures. Goyf, delver and mandrills cost next to nothing so protecting a largely undercosted threat with cheap counters in the early game is pretty effective. New tools like Bedlam reveler could open up more routes for these kind of decks in the future as well.

An insane 4 drop for midrange RUG is Mystic Snake