Tolkien

I am literally just kicking an ant hill here to see what happens
But what does Veeky Forums think of Tolkien? Did he really establish our modern views of most of the core fantasy races? Can we attribute what comes to mind when we think of dwarves, elves, and orcs to him or some other source?
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Tolkien literally invented modern fantasy, and anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant. All of his works, and derivatively, core fantasy works, are based off of saxon mythology, but modern works try to put a unique spin on it, which frankly butchers the source material.

Other than Dwarves, Orcs, and Goblins (and even then), not really. Comparing the "typical fantasy races" to Tolkien makes you realize just how loosely they are based on them, often to the point of being such in name only.

Even modern stereotypical depictions of dwarves (scottish magic hating alcoholics) and orcs (green, super muscled, strong, savage, stupid people) bear little resemblance to Tolkien, in all honesty.

I was leaning more towards "Living in the underground, bearded women, masters of craft, and hand-wringing greedy bastards", and orcs as "A humanoid savage race capable of nothing but evil, often able to wield corrupt or dark magic"

I don't know.
Many depictions of fantasy races go back even farther than Tolkein.
Our modern versions of Dwarves and Elves closely resemble those from Norse and Germanic mythology.

You might want to distinct between Game Fantasy and Story Fantasy, as Tolkien has only really influenced the former.

>I am literally
Figuratively.

No while I was posting I was actually kicking down an ant hill.

Every time you use dwarves as a plural of dwarf rather than dwarfs you can attribute that to Tolkien. He's probably the biggest single influence in the last hundred years or more on the fantasy genre.

Along similar lines, I have an old fantasy book which says "elfess" for a female elf. Yeeeaaah not gonna see that again any time soon, I think, except maybe from a hipster.

Perhaps he I posting from hi phone while multitasking.
You don't know.
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>But what does Veeky Forums think of Tolkien?
Many things. We are not really a hive mind.

>Did he really establish our modern views of most of the core fantasy races?
He reinvented elves and codified hobbits and orcs in way that hadn't been done before.
He helped establish them, clearly.

>Can we attribute what comes to mind when we think of dwarves, elves, and orcs to him or some other source?
D&D took his ideas and twisted them.
Their version of a lot of fantasy races often overides Tolkien's.

Tolkien is a chief contributor to modern fabtasy, but far from the only source.
Anyone who says otherwise is either deceiving themselves or has an agenda.

Example of pre-Tolkien plural.

Also it's "stirring the hornet's nest", kicking an anthill just annihilates it.

Female elves: Elves.

Male elves: See "female elves"

And here we see a case where Veeky Forums established a new view of elves entirely apart from Tolkien.

Breddy gud

>"Living in the underground, bearded women, masters of craft, and hand-wringing greedy bastards"
you realize that dwarfs exist in germanic folklore (nibelungensage), right?

>Did he really establish our modern views of most of the core fantasy races? Can we attribute what comes to mind when we think of dwarves, elves, and orcs to him or some other source?
Not really.
>Generic fantasy orcs are nothing like tolkien's twisted, midget mongolians.

>Generic fantasy elves are usually ether frilly fantasy nobles with an ubermensch complex or fantasy natives who worship trees. Occasionally getting a hit with the "FAE OR ALIEN" brush. Tolkien elves are mostly beautiful looking senior citizens with actual immortality.

>Generic fantasy dwarves are pretty close to tolkien dwarves. But then again tolkien dwarves are pretty close to mythological dwarves.

Dwarves are also the only above race, that in LotR, could be considered PC viable in most table top games. Elves actually have experience to match their immense age so tend to be hero level straight off and would be restricted to high level play. Orcs would be horribly under-powered, having weak, broken bodies and psychologies so warped they couldn't function in most normal parties.


AD&D is the largest source for fantasy tropes, not Tolkien. LotR and Hobbit are mostly their own things that, in many ways, don't jive at all with what most of Veeky Forums seems think of fantasy. Any influences from them are purely superficial.

Actually, come to think of elven PCs, it might be viable for a non-adventuring elf to take up the career and be on par with normal PCs.
>A master baker, brewer and cobbler with thousands of years of experience sets out adventuring. He starts with godly camp management skills and bit of supernatural wisdom but is otherwise an apprentice fighter.

And that they forged weapons for the Gods, yes. I know my mythology.

For example, ghouls are from Islamic mythology.

Elves and dwarves are about an equal mix between Tolkien and Poul Anderson. He wrote "Three Hearts and Three Lions" and "The Broken Sword", among others. LotR elves probably were more iconic than the ones from "The Broken Sword", in the end, but Anderson's elves were somber and imposing when the elves portrayed in "The Hobbit" still reeked of Keebler.

As for dwarves. it was Anderson's "Three Hearts and Three Lions" that left them with the Scottish accent.

>re-reading my post.
>contemplating it
Did I say "equal" split? Make it an 80-20 split in Tolkien's favor, honestly.

...maybe 90-10.

>But what does Veeky Forums think of Tolkien?
I quite like his work.

>Did he really establish our modern views of most of the core fantasy races?
Not entirely, though he certainly influenced it. I'd say that wealth of later fantasy works is probably more important. Most people haven't read his work, but they've likely encountered fantasy that is inspired in some part by Tolkien. And then it's probably more appropriate to say that people's ideas are established by what they interact with, rather than the original influences.

>Can we attribute what comes to mind when we think of dwarves, elves, and orcs to him or some other source?
Part of it, sure, but in this day and age nothing really comes down to a singular source. It's all a general fantasy hodgepodge of ideas and concepts where everyone lends from one another, and tracing the exact ancestry of the ideas is increasingly difficult.