Age of Sigmar General

Does anyone have scans of the Silver Tower rules and the app heroes and items?

I only started posting it (I'm not the guy who posted it this time) because it pisses you off.

With love from me to you, paint your demon prince pink

Sup /aos, now that the general handbook has been out from some time, how do ypu play your games? strictly matched? open?
And what's your favourite point cap?
I personally play Open with points and rule of 1(less shanenigans with spells but forces for more spell variert).
1k is the favourite format in my area because it makes up for fast games, and also has a lot more depth. the game is incredibly deep with low points as even a single big mistake can cost a game.
haven't saw anyone play 2k yet, our format for "bigger"games is 1.5k, which allows us to take more behemots and shit.

Not bad. I'd keep it that way. And make the furnace your general, you want something resilient to be your general.
Give it the 3" unit gets a +1 to hit to have incredibly strong plague monks.
Hitting on 3s, rerollable with a chance to deliver mortal wounds on 5s instead of 6s is incredibly strong.
im not the guy that usually snaps at it.
I'm actually torn between fucking hating it or loving how it makes people rage(including me)

Also, pic unrelated.

>Twice as tall and probably five times as massive as a fully armoured Sigmarine

Jesus Chirst how did anyone ever stop that in the old world?

it had bad rules

the old World died, so there's your answer.
>it had bad rules
It had an horrible community, and the rules expanded in a convulsed and retarded way, adding things where not needed and making it impossible to start playing.

like any true human faction. throw bodies at it until it's gone

Narrative, 1.5k, no force org.

No, minotaurs had shit rules in 7/8

Haven't looked at 6, I prefer 3

So the solution of Age of Sigmar was not the rule changes, but the fact that such a radical change scared off the crappy community leaving only those open minded enough to move on and give it a try

guns and magic

In the end scared almost everyone, so they overdid it.
Kirby approach to Aos has been terrible and everyone suffered from it.
Biggest flaw of recent fantasy, imho were:
>absurdely high starting price. And by price I intend not only the money-but the time and effort required. In some factions, you needed 200 models to play a standard game, because small games weren't really fun in fantasy. You can't fucking ask a new player to assemble and paint that many miniatures in order to play.
>too many units were completely useless to the point people were forced to play "meta"with their army just in order to have fun. See 40k(40k is worse tho)
>terrible, terrible community
>competitive mindset for a game which has not been created nor expanded to ever be competitive.
I kinda miss fantasy sometimes but it had lost its appeal to me long time ago.
Aos gave me a reason to play the hobby again with his fluffy and friendly approach.

>>competitive mindset for a game which has not been created nor expanded to ever be competitive.

See everyone who only plays with points in AoS

My playgroup moved on to 9th age, but now some people are giving AoS a new shot. They seemed to have real trouble with the fact that it was kinda hard to just take a look at both sides and se if they were equal.

At least in the beginning when EVERYTHING had new rules, a few completly one sided matches and most of them were out.

Now we just use the points to make sure one side is not, like, twice as powerful as the other. So it helps us retards to, not just competative players.

I've only just started but I highly prefer just to play with points because i don't want shit to be unbalanced. Against or for me. Fairness is the first step to fun.

Of course the answer was to get rid of all the rules that made the game engaging and replace it with a rule set made for retards and toddlers

>Points
>Balanced
>Fair

So the illusion takes another. Bitterness be your future boy.

>Jesus Chirst how did anyone ever stop that in the old world?

Cannons.

>I've only just started but I highly prefer just to play with points because i don't want shit to be unbalanced. Against or for me. Fairness is the first step to fun.

but gw points aren't fair or balanced

but gw points aren't fair or balanced

>buttblasted that AoS sells more than "super tactical elite toy soldier game 57"

8th is complete shit man

Your game still exists. It hasn't been erased and some companies have even picked up the torch to carry it on. Why must you come here to shit on something you know nothing about? Your not doing a very good job of refutting the stereotypical wfb player image.

Well how do you propose you make sure a game is balanced then. Bestow upon me thou wisdom. :spoiler:I'm always open to better ideas because points ain't perfect but i'm unaware of a better idea currently.:spoiler:

>course the answer was to get rid of all the rules that made the game engaging and replace it with a rule set made for retards and toddlers
Whfb thread is that way, thanks.
Also:whfb ruleset were ar horrible, horrible mess.
Most of them were bad written,made the game too slow and didn't represented well what they were supposed to represent.Hordes of mini didn't felt like hordes of warriors clashing, and so on.
people plays 9th just because its literally whfb with more balanced armies but its still shit. I find KOW a lot more appealing and fun in this regard. Even if they have only 4 pages,i find Aos rules more fun than then mess whfb had become.
From a casual, narrative game made to collect and have fun with your platic models it became a convulted mess only manchildren and people who threw too much money into it could enjoy.
Same is happening to 40k, even tho somehow it manages to lure new players in due to the appeal of the aesthetic and the popularity of the game.
Well, no?
Wanting to have a way to field roughly equal forces is not wanting to be a powergaming asshole.
Playing without point was fun only with long-term friends, but working on making the game balanced was a pain in the ass that wook almost as playing the game itself.
Playing pick-up games was really hard and frustating, and wound count was a horrible choice I still have no idea why people decided to use as standard(better than model count lol).
Since tactic matter more now than before, and since every unit is now decent and playable, which allows for finally a way to build your army as you really want playing warhammer has never been more fun.
(well, maybe in the 80')
Its not illusion. Points are are not the best option for fairness but surely they are a great way to help build 2 fair armies.
Warhammer will NEVER be competely balanced, because its not supposed to be. No wargame will ever be unless we got ride of dice roll, randomization,too many different profiles...

>Well how do you propose you make sure a game is balanced then. Bestow upon me thou wisdom.

Gentleman's agreement.

>Its not illusion.

It is, points only serve to validate power gamers.

I want you to answer

's question.

Fairness is the first step of fun - no one likes to be completely BTFO every game they play.

So what's a better alternative to ensure a fair game than points?

Funny, I've had a year of fair and balanced games without points.

I guess it was just an illusion and the people who are bringing forgeworld models in 1000 point games are definitely having equal and fair games

>Gentleman's agreement

That only works if you have comprehensive knowledge of not only what everything in your own army can do, but also what everything in your opponent's army can do.

You can discuss and agree all you like about what kind of game you want to play, but if one of you doesn't know how good an unrestricted Nagash can be then at least one player is going to have a bad game.

>Gentleman's agreement.
To what? How many points to use?

Of course some things are undercosted and some things are overcosted, but we use them more as a guideline than actual rules. We played 8th before, we have lost all faith in "complete balance"

A powergamer is surely going to be much worse with absolutely no restrictions, rather than some sort of limiting system.

aka: chess.
You want a perfect balanced game? go play fucking chess.
Warhammer is all about fantasy warriors slashing at each other, mages shitting comets into their enemies and giant creatures smashing heads and eating peoples.
its not supposed to be balanced.
Its supposed to be flashy, its supposed to be exxagerated, its supposed to be stupid and fun.
Its a social hobby focussed on collecting and painting plastic toys and playing with them to recreate unrealistic, exxagerated battles.
It has never been conceived to be a clash of cunning and strategy and it never will.
register to your local chess team or go play warmachine if you want to be smudge about it.
never mind, troll confirmed.
last word you'll hera from me:
>Gentleman's agreement.
because its fun to spend at least 30 minutes trying to think about the strenght on any unit and fielding something that-in your opinion-is equally strong. And maybe you have no idea on how your opponent's units is strong, so you end playing with a shit army against an unstoppable tide that leaves you tabled at turn 2, when you can simply go by a Gentleman's aggreement and say "I have 1680 points and I want to play them, ya want to play?
"sure, lemme bring 1700 points too".
yes, you are troll.
Fuck you.
Anyway, i'm done with this shit, I think i'll just ignore you for a while and then go and try to slam down some order bastard to get chaos winning again in a contested store in my area.
Wish me luck guys.
Wish me luck.

>So what's a better alternative to ensure a fair game than points?

Use your fucking brain.

People are fast to point out that model count isn't fair, that wound count isn't fair, and we can all agree that the Forgeworld points are bullshit.

The only way to get an approximately level playing field is to agree to have fun.

Like I said, I've been using wounds and scenarios for a year of age of sigmar and had a great time. user mentioned that wound count made his local meta shit because everyone spammed monsters and ogres. That's not the comps fault and I wager that points won't fix his problem either.

>Unrestricted Nagash will have a bad game

Yeah for what, like 10 minutes? As soon as you hit his first hero phase and his army size doubles or triples even a mouth drooling retard should be able to say "hold on, this isn't fair"

Then you're in the minority, and either have the luxury of only playing with close friends or have a very specific type of gaming community.

The fact that points don't always offer a fair and balanced game doesn't make them a worse option than 'fuck it, anything goes I guess', and you can still use points as a guideline whilst including all that stuff about gentlemans' agreements, they aren't mutually exclusive.

I still believe the best form of the game for casual play will be a hybrid of Open and Matched for that reason - you get a rough guide on how potent each model is based on the points assigned to it, but you don't follow the restrictions on minimum Battleline etc so you can throw down whatever models you like.

>A powergamer is surely going to be much worse with absolutely no restrictions, rather than some sort of limiting system.

Untrue, a power gamer gets even more power in a limited system because other people might think it's fair. Then he plops down his forgeworld models (or his converted from gw plastic forgeworld models) and wipes his opponent off the table in a couple of turns.

>That only works if you have comprehensive knowledge of not only what everything in your own army can do, but also what everything in your opponent's army can do.

It doesn't take long to learn.

> but if one of you doesn't know how good an unrestricted Nagash can be then at least one player is going to have a bad game.

Then the faggot who thought it was a good idea to take Nagash to curb stomp some innocent newb will find himself short of games in the future.

>To what? How many points to use?

Generally to not be a dick.
Self balancing leads to fairer games than points.

Anons I cannot decide for the life of me how to paint my ironjawz. I am not a fan of the yellow or blue from the book. Red is ok I guess, I've painted one brute in red and it doesn't quite look right. I liked the black armour but it looks too plain when it's all just black plus I don't know how to highlight it properly. Same with metal. Looks odd with the weapon looking metal too.

I'm thinking I might just hodge podge my guys into having lots of different armour colours, since they are supposed to be taken from fallen warriors and beaten into shape, but then again I don't want my guys to look like a non unified rabble of pikeys that happened to show up at an age of sigmar larp wearing whatever shit they found around a scrap yard.

I am so indecisive.

>Wish me luck guys.
>Wish me luck.

I wish that you trip and fall in front of a bus

>Then you're in the minority

SELLING MORE THAN WARHAMMER FANTASY HAS IN YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAARS

>minority

kek

>The only way to get an approximately level playing field is to agree to have fun.
because you can't do that using points, sure.
"hey, i'm having so fun with this battl..."
"WAIT, ARE YOU USING POINTS????"
"OH SHIT, YOU ARE RIGHT"
"THE GAME IS A MESS NOW, ITS NO FUN ANYMORE"
"OH NO, I TURNED INTO A POWERGAMER! HOW DID IT HAPPENEDDDD"
not that guy but, I guess you were the "don't be an asshole to make the game work", am I right?
So kind.

>but then again I don't want my guys to look like a non unified rabble of pikeys that happened to show up at an age of sigmar larp wearing whatever shit they found around a scrap yard.

I dunno man, that sounds like a pretty swell ork horde

So basically what you're advising is to play a vast quantity of unfinished 10 minute games, each stopping once you and your opponent realize that one of you has plopped some obscenely powerful model on the board, before finally arriving, after possibly months of trial and error depending on your individual availability, at a semi-balanced experience that the points already provided could've offered without all the work?

Points don't have to be a strict line to walk, they can be used as a rough guide alongside whatever gentlemans' agreement you come to.

oops, forgot my pic, here it is

agree with this.
I mean, in GH its written in almost every fucking page "these are just guidelines, play as you wish and don't forget to have fun"
how can people be so dense?
Your idea is really nice but be prepared: it'll eat a lot of time.
dark metallics and colours in general work great with the ironjawz imho. bright colours kinda kills them.

I'm saying that fucko 1 and fucko 2 are very quick to point out when shit isn't balanced, so it stands to reason that they can setup something that makes for an agreeable fight.

Then after the battle if one side had a clear advantage they can talk about it and keep it in mind.

Fuck these shitty trolls.
Tell me about your General, /aosg/. Good stories, bad beats, or just a neat paint scheme?

>Points babbies can't accept that points are just an obfuscation of an inherently imbalanced system
>Points babbies can't comprehend the true path to fair and fun gaming lies not within a sum of arbitrary numbers but within ourselves and our ability to perceive the universe.

so you need potentially weeks and multiple games just to balance out a game with just ONE player with one list? and have to repeat that process if any of the two players brings something new?
Or you can grab points and do the same exact thing, but instead it takes 5 minutes to count the points?
You can always tweak points if you feel something's not right.
Thing FW models are overpowered? add some points to their cost or to your opponents army. Takes a lot less time, its easier and bas epoints will make up for a decenttly balanced game in 80% of the games.
trampled a whfb fag a few days ago.
he grabbed a list online to be sure to maximize damage and show me how aos was unbalanced. i brought my fluffy list.
the result: I killed all his units and he killed only one, and just because I fed it to him to block one of his hitters for a couple of turns.
Might do a batrep later if anyone's interested.

>Might do a batrep later if anyone's interested.
Tell us a story user.

Story time!

>You can always tweak points if you feel something's not right.

You've made the first step.
You think points are mutable.
Now you just need to recognise that they are actually intangible.
Set your mind free.

The thing I never see people talk about in the points v. free play stuff is that AoS is so huge on "buy what looks cool" but sometimes that stuff is less or more powerful than what another player thinks is cool. Neither player have unlimited funds or unlimited choices they think look cool. If player A thinks archaon and his varanguard are the bee's knees, is he an "asshole" opponent because those are the only models he has? Not necessarily.

Daily reminder that Wood Elves + Sylvaneth are OP

do you guys get the how to paint stormcast book up from that guy? posting the page

>If player A thinks archaon and his varanguard are the bee's knees, is he an "asshole" opponent because those are the only models he has?

In a points based game where they are undercosted in terms of points then yes.
But with no points the players are free to self determine.

So unless player B buys more stuff player A can't play?

Consider that player A could use less stuff.

But if player A simply has 4 models, Archaon and 3 Varanguard, how? Points are an excellent starting point to realize that a pickup game at a ~1000 using Archaon and crew is not a good idea.

>But if player A simply has 4 models, Archaon and 3 Varanguard, how?

One model, two models, three models.

>Points are an excellent starting point

Points are the worst starting point.
Points are a deceiver, a cloak of illusion, cast them aside and use your own judgement.
Points do not bring balance, instead they bring a legitimisation of imbalance.

Just bought the general's handbook.

Black orc point costs are not listed. What the fuck?

Aren't they ardboyz now? Part of iron jaws.

Black Orcs no longer exist.
They are Ardboys now.

But my pdf says I need to use black orcs to use a batallion? And ardboys suck huge dick compared to black orcs? And the abilities of the black orc big boss I also have to take in the batallion only work on black orcs?

>But my pdf says

Black Orcs are dead and buried.
Ardboys are your units now.

Do I just replace all instance of the word 'black orc' with ardboy now? is there like a ruling or something? Can Grimgor ironhide make ardboys immortals? Do they get +1 to hit when there's a black orc big boss nearby?

>Do I just replace all instance of the word 'black orc' with ardboy now?

No, you just don't use Black Orcs in matched play.

Can you guys help me build a good Chaos list out of all the models I have? Still kind of new at this.

1 Beastlord
2 Bray Shaman
10 Bestigors
30 Gors
10 Ungor Raiders
3 Minotaurs
1 Chimera

1 Chaos Lord
1 Chaos Sorcerer Lord
1 Tzeentch Lord
12 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Knights
1 Chaos Chariot

1 Mighty Lord of Khorne
1 Slaughterpriest
1 Bloodstoker
1 Bloodsecrator
20 Blood Reavers
5 Blood Warriors
3 Skull Crushers
1 Khorgorath

1 Bloodthirster
10 Damonettes

And all of the Silver Tower chaos stuff.

If you want to play Black orcs, play them with legacy profile but with ardboyz point cost(or a similar point value).
That's because ardboyz while keeping the same model are a completely different unit now.
let me finish some business shit first and then it's story time.

Wow. Going to a matched play tournament Sunday. I specifically bought/built/converted models for this. If I can't play the army I want to, that's going to kill my age of sigmar career in the crib.

All those models are viable, so in the end is just about what you want to play.
general tips about units:
Mortal khorne models(most of them are bloodbounds)works terribly better when fielded togheter because MUH BLOODSECRATOR buffs them all terribly.
beastmen generally a good addiction for any chaos force for their infantry is average but cheap.
chaos warriors work best when having multiple sources of buffs like bloodsecrator(if khornites). read them as a blank state you can mould with keywords.
Same applies to knights, great cavalry.
Bloodthirster is a beast, use it to fly over your enemy front line and assault(and eviscerate)his back.
Khorgorat is usually ignored but im my experience it can hit hard and, if ignored, it can self heal to the point it can be extremely annoying. if you can grab a 2nd/3rd one and run them in a pack.
then you must play them as 'ardboyz. Ask you lgs store first, if they are chill enough they'll let you use them as 'ardboyz with the "black orc" keyword.

Why would you buy, build and convert miniatures for tournament play without knowing the points costs?

Sexy beastmen ladies, eh? Try this one on for size!

now that the GH is out do people still do open play or smaller point levels? or is it a 2000+ point circlejerk only?

I figured that if Skarsnik and squig hoppers made it into the book, black orcs would.

I really like to use points because my literally autistic brain and I really just appreciate the sense of order it brings.

My Grey Seer General, Skeeratch Shriekborn, and his subordinate Chieftain Feep are getting ready to venture out onto the Path of Glory. So far two other opponent warbands have risen to get in is way, a Bloodbound Warband and gaggle of Daemons led by a particularity mad Sorcerer. The fact that more are going to be showing up is the least of Skeeratch's problems, considering the "Treacherous Progression" rule is going to be in play... On the other hand his new sparkle-shiny Chaos Pendant should help yes, yes!

I haven't saw a 2k game in my area yet.
Most people play 1k, and a few times i saw 1500 games.

No, I mean, if you didn't know how many points they were worth how could you possibly build a list that requires you to know how many points they are worth?

Lots of 1k, but I've found that those games are usually just shooting > first charge > everything else. Best handled 2 out of 3.

So the Thaumaturge is the real keeper from Silver Tower when building a Chaos army, right?

the list was 2000 points, I thought I would be safe no matter how pricy they are

I'd suggest just using the the legacy scroll, then using the points costs for 'ardboyz. Nobody should really mind, if the community is as chill and free wheeling as people suggest. I mean I would personally, but you never know.

>if the community is as chill and free wheeling as people suggest.

Everything changed when the points fags attacked.

well that's good to hear and I hope it stays like that

one of the things I really don't like about 40k is that the community is obsessed with 1850 points, which results in massive 4-6 hour long clusterfucks, also point levels somehow make WAAC behaviors "ok" for the community. It takes a lot models, a lot of time, and you need to have multiple lists in order to have fun games against different players, as everyone netlists on different levels (make a wacky list against the sad ork player, a fully optimized engine of pain for use against tau/eldar/sm players etc).

I am hoping I have more fun with AoS

>fully optimized engine of pain for use against tau/eldar/sm players
>sm

Why does everyone think sm are anything but mid-tier on their best day?

Yea I'll do that. I think as long as I'm up front about it. Really I don't mind losing anything except the synnergy with black orc bosses and da immortals

Its the same in AoS. Points or no, anyway. Cheese-dealers don't change their business model.

you've been away from 40k a while haven't you?

codex SM lists on average are pretty bad, but especially with the new supplement it is an goofball powerful codex in the hands of someone who actually knows how to build lists

Really having fun with 500 points no heros, behemoths, artillery

I've got 10-20 old black orc models. What would be some good models to put together a small AoS force?

I just want to play casually with people at my LGS. Also, it'd be awesome to get a variety of models in the force, one thing I hated with fantasy was how many of the same model I had to make.

40k is so bad lately that everyone at my store has switched to Horus Heresy and Age of Sigmar, while everyone else outside of there is either doing Warmachine or Maulifaux.

40k is pretty much dead unless a new edition can un-fuck it.

40k big problem is not about point limit(even tho 1850 points is still bad).
its a bout a game so unbalanced and badly written it takes too much time to play and its so incredibly unbalanced to the point that either both player brings a super meta list-and whoever gets first turn and doesn't roll bad wins, or the player who has brought even a slightly worse list is bounded to have a bad time.
rules are a clusterfuck and not even a fun one, and power creeping is horrible.
this.
And horus is only "balanced"because both players are forced to play the same fucking army with slight changes.

My Beastlord general dueled the Celestant-Prime and killed him handily, then buffed up a half-dead unit of Gors when proceeded to slaughter a unit of Liberators.

Sadly the Retributors and Celestant-on-Dracoth hit my lines, killed them, my Chimera, and then ran down my Beastlord. The last one standing was actually my Bray Shaman, who nearly killed off the Retributors by himself until Hammerhand caved in his skull.

But really, the big workhorse of the army was pic related. I know you guys say he's overpriced and too fragile but holy shit does he murder anything he touches. I noticed most players have started ignoring him once they realized how fast my Gors and Chariots move, and what all my army does when it buffs itself properly.