Warmachine and Hordes General

only viable option
>cool

Ret is tricky to paint without airbrushing or really high skill, because most of their armor is nearly featureless. This means large areas of an individual color, with bits of the others helping out.

>gay pride cephalyx
yeah nah, they're a weird, Nietzschean super-society with brainwashed and altered slaves, not a fucking pride parade
it'll be my fallback scheme

lab coats with blood

or pic related

oh man, that is a sexy scheme, I might just jump on that one

Am I the only one who doesn't want the Kayazy to ever get updated sculpts? At this point I feel they have been so terrible for so long that they've almost become an institution. It's a proud tradition to make fun of their melted faces and horrible anatomy, and many laughs have been had from ithurtstolive.jpgs. They're the Morrigan sprite of WarmaHordes.

Unlike, say, the Forsaken, Doom Reavers or Boomhowlers, they're so bad in such a distinct way that I find them hilarious rather than just off-putting.

Emphasis on the word "crap".

Not shitting on them, mind you. I'm a merc player myself. But half the appeal is the hodge-podge second-hand ghetto nature of the faction.

Keep in mind that while 'jacks (particularly ranged ones) are more viable now than ever thanks to changed ROF and Focus rules, gunlines never were particularly viable in WarmaHordes and going too heavy on gunjacks will screw you when your opponent inevitably gets into melee and you're stuck swinging impotently taking out one or two infantry models per 'jack. Not to talk about missions that force you to occupy objectives and/or killboxes forcing you to the center.

This goes doubly now that they nerfed Kraye to hell and you can't just shoot n' scoot all day erry day.

I'm not planing on going full gunline but I just want some good shooty jacks

tell that to sloan, top players have been having great success with a double firefly double hunter double defender build with two min stormlances to back it up, among some other misc. support like reinholdt

Then Cygnar is your faction. Between Power Up and ROF 2, the Charger is fucking fantastic now. Stick Strangewayes near it and you have a self-sustaining machine capable of knocking a sizeable hole in most stuff. The Defender is as solid as ever (even slightly better due to free focus and slightly better stats), while costing less.

The only real shame is that some of the auto-include force multipliers have been nerfed. But they were pretty overpowered anyway and weren't used as intended to begin with, so it's more than fair.

Retribution is pretty solid in terms of shooting too, but they tend to be less blasty, fuck-your-shit up shooty and more weird tricksy debuff shooting, at least when it comes to 'jacks.

It's an extreme skew list, though. We saw the same thing early MkII with Lylyth Ravagore lists, and those disappeared pretty quickly once people learned how to handle them. The very design of the game with short ranges, extreme threat on melee units and objectives that force people up close generally make gunlines less than optimal. Granted, I'm not a tournament player, but that's what's happened in every other edition eventually. Guns have a place, but generally not as the main focus of a list.

Unless you get pieces like Haley2 and Stormwalls, which is less about gunlines and more about combining two of the most overpowered models in MkII to create a giant clusterfuck of bullshit where you can't do anything while she gets to go twice and tears you a new asshole.

>Guns have a place, but generally not as the main focus of a list.

That is something that always makes me sad. I do like gunlines myself.

I find it's actually a pretty fun take on it. Guns are more about getting close enough that you're actually putting yourself in peril even if you're pulling some Circle/Legion shit shooting through cover. Certain games that won't be named where you can safely shoot from cover across the entire the table tend to make gunlines static and kind of boring because you're just standing still and rolling dice.

It also fits the WWI into the breach aesthetic. You fire from the hip and draw your saber.

Boomhowlers are fine though, or at least compared to most early Nyss adults.

I really hope PP gives pAbby an update sometime.

So I've been out of Warmachine for a while, since I got turned off by the idea that the only way to make a good Cygnar list is to use mostly Mercs.

Is it now possible to make a Trencher focused army list in Mrk3? I heard they got a boost.

Sounds good, I really like the look of Cygnar the Izzet vibe had me immediately

Polish Championship 2016

Lists (more or less, two people dropped, I believe that one jumped in):
drive.google.com/file/d/0B4FN4OI7Zo5EUEZBTno4alpRZGM/view

Results:
1. Blady Circle Orboros 6 (20.0)(12)(504)
2. Heru Mercenaries 5 (25.0)(17)(544)
3. Chomik Circle Orboros 5 (24.0)(21)(240)
4. Dziekan Retribution of Scyrah 5 (24.0)(10)(364)
5. Erlos Cygnar 5 (20.0)(11)(480)
6. Skrzyp Retribution of Scyrah 5 (19.0)(10)(415)
7. Pomek Protectorate of Menoth 4 (23.0)(14)(457)
8. Vampai Cryx 4 (23.0)(11)(239)
9. MJ Mercenaries 4 (22.0)(20)(431)
10. Pyra Protectorate of Menoth 4 (22.0)(17)(431)
11. Encaitar Protectorate of Menoth 4 (22.0)(13)(385)
12. Zulk Cryx 4 (22.0)(6)(295)
13. Baton Skorne 4 (21.0)(12)(377)
14. Ice-T Minions 4 (20.0)(18)(436)
15. Archain Circle Orboros 4 (19.0)(18)(302)
16. Abbadon Mercenaries 4 (19.0)(17)(392)
17. Yaro Retribution of Scyrah 4 (19.0)(15)(435)
18. Skapa Khador 4 (18.0)(5)(425)
19. Orkish Cryx 4 (17.0)(19)(275)
20. Petero Cygnar 4 (17.0)(7)(344)
21. TadeuszCZ Khador 3 (22.0)(17)(345)
22. Fryta Cygnar 3 (21.0)(14)(248)
23. Ven Protectorate of Menoth 3 (21.0)(12)(423)
24. Mefiu Cygnar 3 (20.0)(5)(298)
25. MłodySzkapa Retribution of Scyrah 3 (19.0)(17)(368)

26. Krawat Mercenaries 3 (19.0)(6)(378)
27. Scull Skorne 3 (19.0)(5)(302)
28. Melfist Cryx 3 (18.0)(20)(167)
29. Olaf Khador 3 (18.0)(9)(296)
30. Shept Convergence of Cyriss 3 (18.0)(9)(264)
31. Maestro Khador 3 (18.0)(9)(245)
32. Puchan Protectorate of Menoth 3 (17.0)(0)(298)
33. Kevin Trollbloods 3 (15.0)(13)(225)
34. Kondzioro Minions 3 (15.0)(7)(371)
35. Młody Trollbloods 3 (14.0)(16)(450)
36. Torres Cygnar 3 (14.0)(9)(389)
37. Szugi Retribution of Scyrah 3 (13.0)(3)(267)
38. DW Cygnar 3 (12.0)(7)(299)
39. Matias Protectorate of Menoth 2 (23.0)(9)(354)
40. Bart Protectorate of Menoth 2 (19.0)(20)(396)
41. Utes Skorne 2 (19.0)(11)(205)
42. DaGreenBoy Trollbloods 2 (19.0)(1)(197)
43. Krissos Cryx 2 (18.0)(3)(237)
44. Fluffy Mercenaries 2 (18.0)(3)(171)
45. Konee Skorne 2 (17.0)(11)(338)
46. Artein Trollbloods 2 (15.0)(15)(255)
47. Czarny Trollbloods 2 (15.0)(8)(189)
48. VituS Retribution of Scyrah 2 (15.0)(6)(329)
49. Kruker Circle Orboros 2 (14.0)(10)(246)
50. Rasti Circle Orboros 2 (14.0)(6)(276)
51. Solo Cryx 2 (11.0)(1)(260)
52. Lenczek Trollbloods 2 (10.0)(15)(300)
53. Necromanter Cryx 1 (17.0)(7)(239)
54. Mart Khador 1 (17.0)(5)(183)
55. Dzuki Protectorate of Menoth 1 (15.0)(6)(219)
56. Kfarganus Cygnar 1 (14.0)(0)(161)
57. Urban Minions 1 (12.0)(6)(241)
58. Shaysome Skorne 0 (13.0)(10)(205)

Trenches went from useless to one if, if not the best, front line unit in the faction.

Cryx has buzzsaws though.

If it was WWI wouldn't it be much more about static gunlines and taking pot shots at each other from trenches?

I think part of my issue with it is there isn't a whole heap of ways for ranged forces to disengage for shooting combined with just how damn long charge ranges are. You can genuinely out-charge a shotgun.

But then, Trenchers were my first unit I ever painted up and I've had a lot of bad experiances with 'Oh look, I brought a metric shit-tone of stealth. Your ranged guys are useless unless they hit hard enough to hurt my jacks'

Khador's Decimator has a Buzz Saw and a Revolver Cannon.

Stormtrooper shit aside, there's warnouns. Advancing behind the tanks and stuff.

Now why aren't I doing that...

>oh yeah, skorne heavies are slow as shit and cyclops are outperformed by individual infantry grunts

If folks have the actual lists available in some format and it's not an annoyance, please email a copy to [email protected]. I'm working on a tournament list display setup, and a couple of features for importing lists from other formats or quick entry of lists into CC.

Also, Steamroller dual lists should be in pretty soon.

Trenchers are now incredible

Looking for Into the Storm novel in pdf (File from OP does not work). Could someone share it please?

>Cygnar
>The only real shame is that some of the auto-include force multipliers have been nerfed. But they were pretty overpowered anyway and weren't used as intended to begin with, so it's more than fair.
Cygnar's auto-include force multipliers did get nerfed, but for every one that got taken away another was added. The new GMCA is an example that springs to mind.

...

Does anyone know how much the gencon casters will cost and what time they will be on the site?

$25

> Two circle players in top three.

They had wormwood and Boulder, didn't they?

Well, it's more of a specific flavour of WWI than an actual WWI recreation. Hence the "into the breach" bit. It's all about the moment you storm the trenches, not the boring artillery bombardments and having your feet nibbled on by rats. And you know, robots, zombies and wizards.

Also, trench warfare was a fairly small part of specific WWI theaters (read: western Europe) that has been overemphasized afterwards because it was where the Brits and Americans were deployed.

Way too good, in my humble opinion. They get solid stats for both melee and ranged (and an amazing support solo that gets both to an elite level), good guns, Assault, a free Dig In order, Smoke Bombs, Tough, all for less than a lot of other factions get units that do one of those things as well for.

Naked Trenchers are arguably the best point-for-point ranged unit in the game. With their UA and Solos, they're the best by far.

They're a WGDS that doesn't rely on a silly, easily countered gimmick to survive. Then again, at least they're still not MKII Errants/MHSF.

Why do you guys never post pictures of your models? Do you hate painting that much? Why not just play with empty bases and cardboard cut outs?

I'm going to be expanding my Cryx army and am looking for recommendations, here's what I have:

Gaspy1
Denny1

Stalker
Deathjack
Cankerworm
Defiler x2
Deathripper x2
Nightwretch x2

Bane Knights
Bane Warriors +UA
Mechanothralls
Necrosurgeon

Pistol Wraith x2
Skarlock Thrall
Bane Lord Tartarus
Withershadow

I'm planning on getting Venethrax, a Goreshade, and maybe Denny 2 and Terminus. For Warjacks definitely a seether/inflictor, more character jacks (erebus and malice primarily) along with a slayer/reaper/corruptor kit, probably a crabjack, and a shrike (even if they aren't that great). I'm also thinking about grabbing a bloat thrall along with Mobius and an Iron Lich Overseer

I did a massive stripping of my models, so a lot of them are bare right now.

Here's one for you user.

And here's the last one I got on me.

Sorry in advance for the file sizes.

1st place was Baldur1 and Tanith
2nd place was Magnus2 and Ossrum
3rd place was Krueger1 and Wurmwood

discountgamesinc.com/tournaments

Just look at all that Sloane

Its almost like Veeky Forums is shit at this game and just parots what the loudest mouth breather said

I spend a lot of time that would go to painting models writing conflictchamber instead.

Because, unlike painting, I'm actually good at programming.

Sloan is just a worst Haley1 now. Not worth the hype

>all dem jack/artillery lists
Are... are we finally playing Warmachine?

The camera ran out of juice =(

The big deal was that the rumored change to her feat was far worse than what we got.

P Haley didn't see tourney play, but doesn't mean that she wasn't cancer mkii.

Tourney stats only show what players are good and general meta trends.

Sloan is still very polarizing matchupwise and turn 1 shots were not ok.

Bloat thrall+mobious yes.
Iron lich overseer hell no

If you get one helljack just turn it into erebus.

Wait for the inflicter kit get like 3 of those.
Consider nightmare
definatly get venethrax
i wouldnt get terminus
consider lich3

Satyxis are great, bloodwitches better imo
nyss are great
wrong eye is great
darragh wraith is great
bane knights work better in pairs

Also get scaverous he might be the best in the faction

Tell me where my menoth now stand.

From the looks of it Jacks are king, Flame Bringers are a thing and Errants are now dead.

Give it to me straight: Kreoss is usless now isn't he :'(

Yeah! Three whole lists! Surely this is the new world order! I mean, it's not like the melee Khador casters see way more action and wins!

Scaverous would work reall well with the withershadow combine, yes? Is there anything else that would be good to take to take advantage of his feat? Are Skarlock Commanders and Sirens the only ones outside of WC attachments that can make use of it? Or is it really just there for himself?

Errants aren't dead. They're just not flat out broken gods.

You're doing Menoth's work and no one would have it otherwise. Except maybe dirt and tree worshippers

Or are you part of Convergence...

You're an idiot. Haley1 saw plenty of tournament play in Mk2 and was one of the best casters in Cygnar. Do not remember double colossal lists with her? It was brutal.

Sloan is pretty meh now. She's easy to play for noobies and that's about it. Only reason she's not bottom tier is because she's a Cygnar caster with access to good shooting jacks

pKreoss can still meme people to death.

I've actually played mostly Menoth in Mk3, so I supposed I'm doing Menoth's work pretty directly.

Harby got neutered. Bastions got nerfed. Errants got nerfed but are still good.

Amon is S-tier.

All of our heavy jacks are playable, and most of them are good.

Idrians are probably our best infantry now.

Fuck, don't I wish.

I miss Battletech, where no one gave a shit about models.

While I wouldn't go that far, I'd say she's kind of the Snipe Feat Go of Mk3. A simple direct battle plan supported by very strong pieces that's hard to prevent unless you happen to have hard counters in your list.

If anything speaks to ranged supremacy in Mk3, it's the fact Khador is consistently doing so well with lists that often seem to include at least one unit of Winter Guard Riflemen with max Rocketeers.

I mean, the problem with WGR is that you bring them with Irusk2, who can also make them POW11 weaponmasters, gives them tough no knockdown, and trivial cover in an edition when getting def buffs isn't supposed to be so easy anymore.

I was going to run something like this tomorrow as a test. Usually I have been runing 30 bane knights, 1 arcnode, dw, dj and blt w/ a scarlok

I dont really build him with his feat in mind, honestly

What do you like about knights over warriors? Do you like Vengence that much?

Warriors are slow and expensive. Knights have higher arm, and are 4" faster

Warriors are just trashy now, sorry

No Erebus? What is this heresy?

Not trolling or anything, but how will this whole living rules thing work out in practice? Because if shit gets updated every three to four months, I'm not sure I feel all that good about paying for unit rules. I mean, if my cards will need up to date pdfs to amend them, then what's the point of the cards to begin with? And if you're including them for free with the models anyway, why not make the model rules free so players can make informed decisions about purchases ahead of time since you don't technically have to buy Forces of books or Faction Decks? I still need the models to play the game, after all, so it's not like the stat cards are the main reason I make a purchase. Plus the hassle of ordering a model that's been in storage for a long time and have outdated cards (I remember getting a MkI Morvahna in like 2013). I know PP was originally a publishing company, but it just seems like a hassle that will just invite piracy since the collectors will pre-order models and thus get the rules with the model while likely buying the books as well, and the people who want to see the full rules before committing to a purchase will find ways to see the stat cards anyway and just end up pissed they have to jump through hurdles to find out if they want to buy a model in the first place.

Will they be releasing model rules for free as well, or will this be a weird late MkII deal where the basic rules are free but model rules cost? Because with the added stipulation of a living rules document, the latter option seems pretty goddamn dumb and a good way to piss off the fanbase.

>Warriors are slow and expensive.
Same speed and same cost as Knights.

>Knights have higher arm
By one point, not gonna same them against a good shot or solid blast.

>and are 4" faster
I'll give you the 2" reach is a nice benefit, Vengence would only come into play if something got damaged in the last round, and if you needed that 3" of movement that means you'd being shot at and you're likely going to have several knights during that shooting phase.

>Warriors are just trashy now, sorry
I highly disagree. Warriors can be regenerated very easily with the UA's mini feat which will let you pick up the slack from getting shot from last round. Knights have to rely on the nerfed BLT who supports warriors equally well. And warriors do considerably more damage and support other models with Dark Shroud. Plus they're just about equally tanky to Knights (15 ARM vs 16 ARM)

Cards are a trap, don't buy them unless you're prepared to have to print errata or pick up one of the update packs later

WHY ARE GOOD RANGED UNITS ALSO SOLID IN MELEE

MY MELEE UNITS DON'T HAVE A GUN SO WHY CAN YOURS CUT MINE TO RIBBONS FOR THE SAME POINT COST

Because different factions have different strengths and weaknesses?

A UNIT THAT'S GOOD AT EVERYTHING HAS NO WEAKNESSES

What unit are you talking about?

FUCKING

INVICTORS

I find he has more synergy with venethrax or terminus. The majority of soul collecting comes from the units. Of course you could take erebus and croes if you cut DW and DJ, wich is another option.

Yes, this is cryx. I have no illusion that any unit will reach the enemy intact. Vengence often comes into play and it continues to come into play even after the initial charge. Against gunlines speed is more important than ever

Being arm16 is nice if i want to have 2 arm 18 units on the board, wich should survive pow10 shooting long been the bane of cryx

Warriors are 23 points if you want to pull off the ua trick, but with infantry the way it is, it seems superflous. If I need dark shoud I usually bring ragmang.

What jacks are ideal to take with Junior and/or Jakes, or are they a trap pick now with the "must have a warjack attached" rule?

>tfw Mk3 starters still not restocked
I seriously regret not preordeing.

They're a generalist unit, sure, but not exactly amazing.

They can get outshot, what with being RNG10 and SPD5, and they're not tough enough to outfight dedicated melee units.

Sure, that mini feat is nice for them, but that's one turn of good range shooting.

Full unit + UA is also 20 points, which is fairly pricy for a single unit. Even full WGRC + 3 Rockets is only 19 points

Depends on the faction, but a shooting jack that doesn't need a ton of support or a support jack that can play second line(a shield guard jack, for example) are two good choices.

INVICTORS HAVE ASSAULT

YOU CAN MAKE YOUR ASSAULT SHOT EVEN IF YOU FAIL YOUR CHARGE

WHICH MEANS THEY'RE SPD8

Cygnar-fag here. Yeah, the Trenchers are amazing. That said
>with UA and solos, they're the best by far

With UA and solos, Winter Guard Rifle Corps are a bit better. The rocketeers are fucking amazing and being able to buff their hit rolls on those fucking rifles is insane. They don't need much input to do some amazing things. Also if you take a page out of Tom Guan's playbook, the removal of character restrictions means you can have the entire WGRC + Joe package in any of your lists. You are gonna see a lot of those fuckers.

And? If they're assaulting, they're losing Wall of Steel, most likely, or creating really weird setups.

Plus Assault shots can't CRA, so they lose their rerolls and all the other benefits of CRA.

>asking about Cygnar Journeyman Casters
>"Depends on the Faction"

Yup. 3 years of playtesting and I just know who the winning warlocks are.

I read that as Jakes or the other Juniors, not the Junior specifically.

Charger is the best on the Junior, I believe, I dunno about Jakes.

I mean, the meta is developing. Like, in a year if that shit is still going then it will be an obvious problem, but right now it's hard to call anything for certain.

Better shooting? Continuous effects? Not being a scrub? Faster melee troops? Using terrain?

>Better shooting? Continuous effects? Not being a scrub? Faster melee troops? Using terrain?
I play Skorne. The only one of those I have access to is terrain.

>I play Skorne
Well, there's your first problem. Stop doing that

Second, try using venators, or incindiary, or use the cat dudes as a jamming unit. You got some options

Reives. You out threat him both with base and mini-feat, Reposition means that even with his mini-feat he's going to struggle to get you, and if he assaults, he needs to roll hard sevens to hit.

>venators
I'd rather not resort to trying to outshoot actual shooting factions.
>incindiarii
They became unplayable in Mk3. People aren't using enough infantry for the fire blobs to matter, they lost DEF, they lost ARM, they lost boxes, they went from 9 to 18 points. Like, points weren't even doubled for Mk3, they were slightly less than doubled. So Incindiarii actually cost MORE now after all their nerfs.
>ferox
HAHAHA

OH MAN

THIS GUY

PAAAAHAHAHAHA

What I'm thinking of doing right now is getting a unit of Bloodrunners to experiment with. 9 points for 6 dudes with stealth that can drop infantry relatively easily. They get in safely because of stealth, drop your guys, then reposition 3" to tie up the rest of the unit. Sure they might die after that, but a unit of Invictus that's been reduced to 4 guys isn't very scary. I sort of want to get Morghoul2 as well just to ensure kills on units like that with his feat. Maybe bring an Archidon for the Sprint feat, or even Molik Karn for Reposition 5.