/btg/ - Battletech General

If we ever got Clanner LAMs, what mechs would be a good starting point? This assuming that the Mech in question had an additional cockpit fitted for ASF and Airmech mode.

Vixen/Incubus for looks alone. Torso totally looks like it's meant to turn into a fighter cockpit. Hilariously it doesn't even have jump capability though.

One obvious start point of course would be the Stinger IIC, given the Stinger was the first successful LAM and all. Add in that it's made by the Raven Alliance, and they do love to fly.

Though functionally, finding a good start point among extant Clan mechs is a bit rough, few don't have at least one of the weight savers. Going by Megamek's advanced search, the only Clan lights that lack any are the Arbalest and Urbie IIC, among mediums, only the Great Wyrm qualifies, the only other one lacking them is the Stalking Spider II which is a quad.

>which is a quad.
And as the IS found out, Quad LAMs don't really work.

The big question with a Clan LAM that isn't based on the Stinger IIC, it's what bit's you need to throw out to fit the transformation tech on.

Do quad mechs take up multiple hexes?

A hex is about 30m wide, so no.

Sorry I meant do they fit on one hex base?

Theoretically yes, in practice no.

The miniature itself is mostly over one hex base but the way a lot of them are posed results in their limbs crowding into adjacent hexes. This can make things a bit annoying on mapsheets or the tabletop generally.

If you just mean for rules, they still only occupy one hex.

>Sorry I meant do they fit on one hex base?

The old Unseen Goliath does, and looks good doing it. The old Unseen Scorpion *barely* does, but the legs are all bunched up in a pose that you would never see unless it was trying to fit on a freight elevator.

Are Thunderbolts, Centurions or Atlases common or reasonable to find in an FWL force?

The Thunderbolt and Atlas, yes. Though the Atlas would be a rare design there, like it is in all House militaries. As for the Centurion... it depends. After Operation Guerrero, you would probably see a decent number, but before or much later than that conflict it would be incredibly uncommon.

Thuds are common everywhere, the Atlases are fairly rare everywhere, but there are mentions of FWL missile lances composed of an Archer, a pair of Trenchbuckets and a Centurion, so they're not unheard of in the League.

Which target would /btg/ choose for a kick attack. A kick against a mech that has one damaged leg (i.e. 50% chance to leg the target) with a to hit of 6, or a upper body kick against a target with a to hit of 7? Attacking with a 50 ton Gladiator.

go for the leg

>Thuds are common everywhere
I've been wondering a bit about that.
Where would the Thunderbolt be MOST common in 3025?

Thud LAM when?

Go for the legshot. Even if you can get it from behind, the odds of dropping it are far lower from a torso kick (you need to 12 the crit roll on the head or CT(R), or pop the gyro/cockpit of your target, or KO the pilot with a head hit). Legging it is straight-up gonna knock him down during the PSR, and even if you fail it's still gonna strip the other leg. Legs take about 20% of all damage to the 'Mech, so you're in a better position next turn as well even if you miss. You DO still have SRM ammo available, right?

>Where would the Thunderbolt be MOST common in 3025?
Front-line service.

All kidding aside, the Liaos blew up most of theirs doing stupid shit and are still recovering them. The FedSuns didn't have a line, and though they probably stole a lot of the ones the Caps lost they'd still be dealing with repairing them and slinging them back onto the front lines.
It's the "backbone" of Taurian forces, and they have two working factories, so by proportion it's almost certainly the Bulls.
By numbers, however, the Burd is the Word b-b-b-b-burd burd burd.. and Elsies have working factories, enough surplus to sell them to other nations, and the cash to crank 'em out. They probably have the most overall, and I'd give the edge to the Word given that Keystone is consistently listed as the biggest factory for the design.

youtube.com/watch?v=9Gc4QTqslN4

It would be most COMMON (that is, you'd be most likely to run into one in any given unit of theirs) in the TC, with Liao in second place, but not for long. In terms of raw numbers of thuds, either lyrans or FWL.

Circa invasion era what are the most common mechs for the Ghost Bear and Smoke Jaguar clans? I'm thinking of going with a pretty heavy clanner opfor with some lights for recon and mediums for troopering.

Don't have my books with me at the moment, but if memory serves, Ghost Bears were really keen on the Executioner, the Mad Dog and the Fire Moth, plus the Kodiak (non-Omni though) and I'm fairly sure I've forgotten a medium there. The Jags were similarly keen on the Mist Lynx, the Cauldron Born and the Warhawk. Once again, I may have forgotten some of them.

Looking at Xotl's list, it looks like Dashers, Dragonflys, Vultures, and Gladiators for the Bears, and Koshis, Ryoken, Masakaris, and Daishis for the Jags (with "common" being relative: common assaults are still rarer mechs).

>Once again, I may have forgotten some of them.

you forgot the stormcrow. And Jags liked the dire wolf as well.

Does anyone know where these counters are from and if it's possible to download them somewhere?

Those are from the "BattleTech Reinforcements 2" boxed set. Haven't seen them around for download.

It's not in the mediafire folders?

Dunno. I own two or three myself; never felt the need to look. Just haven't seen them casually lying about the usual BT torrents that I recall.

>TC

Do you mean unit as in regiment, or unit as in lance? Because neither of those make sense, Everyone loves Thuds, and the Taurians relied on Lights primarily and then Mediums, not Heavies.

GB: Fire Moth, Viper, Mad Dog, Executioner, Kingfisher.

SJ: Mist Lynx, Storm Crow, Mad Dog, War Hawk, Dire Wolf.

>attempting to start this argument yet another time
Fuck right off deadboarder

>attempting to imply that having factories means it's everywhere

The TC canonically relies on Mediums and Lights, and has only started to go up in overall weight or field more heavies after the 3050s. This is stated in FM:P several times.

It does not rely on heavies, T-Bolts or otherwise. It doesn't contradict any earlier information of which I'm aware, but if it did newest material takes precedence.

Cool your jets.

>This is stated in FM:P several times.

just post a screencap to show him and put an end to this

3039 is newer than FM:P and calls the thud the "backbone" of the TDF

Gumball user here. Can these be used for anything?

Gyans, Gyans everywhere. Other than that, a medium of some sort.

That could mean anything.

>Gumball user here. Can these be used for anything?

How about the Paladin from Solaris VII?

Could chop em up to make casualty markers/severed limbs

Also, rather than have do this shit for the thirtieth fucking time, let's talk about bugs: Variants? Good ways to use the ones that the RATs will invariably throw you? Any good stories?

Wow, didn't know these were from Gundam.

Total weapon replacements:
SRM-4 with infernos on a Wasp/Stinger, to fuck people up
LPPC on an introtech wasp/stinger as a jumpy sniper that's almost introtech.
3 MLs on a Locust.

>Variants?
I play a lot of periphery stuff, so I use bugs a lot, and I've come up with some oddball variants made by the various factions due to their shortages of heavier mechs
here are a couple:
>LCT-1T: three MLs and nothing else.
>Stinger-3MC: Removed JJs and all other weapons to add six MLs
>LCT-1A: uses a Panther engine and drops a ton of armor to carry a LL and nothing else
>LCT-2A: based on the -1A, uses a Stinger engine and removes two tons of armor to become the legendary PPC locust
>LCT-1MC: trades the MGs for four JJs
>tactics
I've found that the trick with locusts is to bring several, run em close together and use their speed to close and all unload on a single target. this works especially well with the 3ML model; I like to use a full lance together. people tend to ignore bugs, which means you can usually get them in close and suddenly unload with twelve MLs up a medium or heavy's ass. for stingers and wasps, it's similar, except you use JJs and cover-hopping to get close rather than raw speed

Last time I did crop images and gave quotes with page references.

3039 is written with an in-universe date of 3073 and several times refers to events and designs of that era rather than 3039. The section you're referring to is in the present (ie, 3072) tense rather than past tense.

Bugs are best used in swarms. If you've got something better that's a more tempting target like a Phoenix Hawk or Wolverine, people will often focus on that to put the hard target down thinking they can get the easy kill on the bugs later. Meanwhile the bugs can go crazy.

Best result I've eve had with this was using a Grand Dragon, Stinger-G, all-laser Locust and a Wasp in a 120-ton tournament. We could field *up to* a Lance, I misread it and thought we had to field *a* Lance with that tonnage. In hindsight I'd have gone a Wolverine-M and traded the Wasp for a Mongoose but it worked pretty well.

The Stinger was the MVP, got some good rear crits on ammo and even managed to jump next to a Grasshopper, evade its punches and torso fire, then kick it. It fell over and critted out its engine by getting snake eyes for the second fall damage cluster location roll.

>Stinger-3MC: Removed JJs and all other weapons to add six MLs

JeromeBlakeHowTerrifying.hpg

>Stinger-3MC: Removed JJs and all other weapons to add six MLs

>LCT-1A: uses a Panther engine and drops a ton of armor to carry a LL and nothing else
Huh, that actually sounds kind of interesting, like a smaller, introtech koto.
Could be nasty if you've got a couple

Yeah, that entire quarter machine set is Gundam ripoffs. There's a Zaku, Dom, Gyan, really bad Gundam, and a couple others. My sister bought a few balls from one a year ago.

I, too, have used the triple-ML Locust. I've also used the -152 Hornet a lot (and made a variant that exploits XXL engines and capped LPPCs to become incredibly irritating).

I have a bunch of RL-PP refits I allow in my house games as well:
LCT: RL-10s-PP in the arms, twin ML in the CT
STG: Drops .5t of MG ammo for an RL-10-PP
Locust - Trade
WSP: RL-15-PP in each side torso
Hornet: RL-20-PP in each side torso
Flea: Drops flamer for RL-15-PP (rear)
Falcon: Drops SLs for RL-10s-PP.
Assassin: Adds flamer to each arm, LA, drops SRM-2 and LRM-5 for a pair of RL-10-PP in the LT and a quartet in the RT.
Spider: Don't fuck with greatness, there is no rocket variant.
Urbie: You know where that AC/10 is? No. It's replaced with RL-20s and a large laser.
Grasshopper: Drops LRM for a smoke launcher in the head and a pair of -20s in the RT.
Pixie: Drops the MGs, adds a pair of RL-10-PP to each leg.
Valkyrie: Swap up the ML for a large, add a -15 in the torso.

How realistic would it be for a single merc pilot to tool around the IS paying for their jumpship passage with services rendered on the planets they get dropped on? Sort of like a wandering gunslinger/gun for hire.

All of those builds look really really fun.

Apparently happens in the Periphery. They call them Errants. At least for the good guys, the bad ones are just pirates.

In the IS probably more common that they'd go from one merc unit to another on a string of short-term sub-contracts.

Either way if anything goes wrong, you're fucked. 'Mechs can handle a lot of abuse but if something breaks you're either done for or stuck where you are, possibly for several months while whatever spare parts you need get shipped in.

That's fine with me. I was thinking of writing some battletech fiction featuring a pilot just doing odd jobs around the IS to finance his way.

I'm particularly fond of the ASN. It's still an excellent saboteur, but the RLs give it just enough kick in a fight to actually have a chance against base turrets or another Medium, and the flamers let it blow shit up a little more efficiently than Infernos. Can't lay mines anymore, but I'd say it's a fair trade for most purposes. The Valk winds up working more like a tiny Pixie, but that's hardly a bad thing.

>Spider: Don't fuck with greatness, there is no rocket variant.
>not making one with 12 RL10s for ONE SHOT ONE KILL

Do House Mechwarriors that don't join up with a family mech get to keep their issued mechs when they get cashiered or do they only keep whatever they're allowed to salvage?

>12 RL10s for ONE SHOT ONE KILL

Bitch, please.

Depends on the era.

Earlier on being able to keep what you killed was a lot more common. Nobody liked being Dispossessed and it was an easy carrot to dangle in front of the hereditary nobility.

Following the Clan invasion the paradigm shifts. The Houses supply more of the gear themselves as time passes and salvage goes more to the House than it does who bought it down.

you keep what you kill

Excellent

it is nasty and also pretty hot running, so your image is very appropriate.
also, the -3MC is actually very good in a role nobody would ever expect a bug in, which is bodyguarding. put it next to a heavier long-range unit, and nobody'll bother shooting at the stinger, and if they get close, they're in for a great big ML surprise
I also do RL refits in my home games, but I use the standard RLs, because I'm an unrepentant AUfag and those introdates are dumb as shit, like most introdate stuff
I've also got a couple of refits that are along the lines of what you've got
>Dervish: each arm now packs a pair of MLs in place of the SRMs, and replaces the LRM-10s with a LRM-5 and four RL-10s in each side torso, and adds four heat sinks
>Crusader: replace the arm LRMs and MGs with five RL-10s each, and adds a LL to each side torso. each SRM-6 is replaced with twin RL-10s, and eight heat sinks are added
>Battlemaster: Swap the SRM-6 for 6 RL-10s, drop the MGs for two more MLs, replace the SRM ammo with a ton of armor and an extra heat sink
>Cyclops: trade the AC/20 for a PPC, five tons of armor and eight RL/10s. trade the SRM-4 for two more RL-10s and, and add four heat sinks
I know I'm only using -10s when I should probably have more variety, but I just can't bring myself to do something so pointlessly bad. it would be like replacing a gauss rifle with twin AC/5s
generally only salvage, though I'm sure there's situations where a mechwarrior does something spectacular and is awarded a land grant and ownership of their mech, effectively creating a new mechwarrior family, though it would be pretty rare

Could a Mechwarrior that becomes attached to their ride trade salvage for the cost of their Battlemech?

I'm mulling over options for how my character got their mech in a campaign I'll be in soon.

>it would be like replacing a gauss rifle with twin AC/5s

Why WOULDN'T you do that?! The AC/5s let you use all those badass alternate ammo types, and given 2 tons of ammo for the GR, the extra ton from the GR->AC/5 switch gives you a total of 3 tons of specialty ammo, so you can reasonably load two kinds and not run out.

user who posts megamek sprites here, decided to model a Thud for 3D printing and casting. As much as I love Shimmy's work, I'm not gonna buy new metals. I'll get critiques/request variants when it's more finished.

>Could a Mechwarrior that becomes attached to their ride trade salvage for the cost of their Battlemech?
probably, assuming the salvage is actually WORTH what they're taking out in utility, not just cash price, so no taking an awesome in exchange for two dead blackjacks. something like handing in an archer to keep your thud would be fine, though
you actually loose a ton on the GR to 2AC/5 swap, not gain it. so you'd go from a GR with two tons of ammo to two AC/5s sharing one, which means no ammo selection

RL variant time?
Warhammer: Ditch everything but the MLs and PPCs, add 10 RL-10s and 2 HS.
Thud: Ditch MGs and SRMs, add 8 RL-10s.

I feel like it'd be cooler to do it more along the lones of the TRO 3025 look, with the split-screen cockpit and generally more square torso

any time is RL variant time.
I actually made my own RL-hammer to go with those others, funny enough. it's a lot like the Battlemaster-RL, with the SRM-6 to 6 RL/10 swap. mine traded the MGs for more armor instead, and dumped the SRM ammo and SLs for heatsinks, as well.
also, that thud would be laughably nasty on the tabletop, though it'd run hotter than two rats fucking in a wool sock

Same here. It always seems a little off to me when folks toss up Ironfoot images given the deviations, even if it's not as severe as if those between something like an Ostroc and missile Regult.

It's customary to give a Mechwarrior the option to purchase his ride when he musters out, and non-Clan salvage is sometimes awarded if you take it out solo, or you can get a new 'Mech for notable acts of valor, loyal service, and/or gaining celebrity in an action. The salvage awards are usually at the discretion of the local general and/or major nobility, and the other awards are basically only ever given by 'Mech corporations or by major nobility (Princes, Warlords, etc.).

With the Crud, I'd actually keep the LRMs, though I might downgrade them to LRM-10s. Dropping the MGs and SRMs for a pair of RL-10s in each leg with a singlet -10 in the wrists, plus the missile downgrade, leaves you with enough tonnage to mount a LL gunpod in the RA and add on six sinks in the side torsos. That gives you considerably better sustained fire options while keeping the "look" of the Crusader and leaving its hybrid fire-support role intact (and keeping its pilot the fuck out of close combat, which is a place he does not belong in a fucking Crud..). If you want to go full Strike Valk, drop a sink and the arm rockets for a pair of MLs over the right shoulder and you've got a brutal short-range punch with the jets to limp back out of range to cool off after you use it.

Also I'm stealing that Beemer for the Davions, and making a Primitive cersion of the Dervish, Stay tuned.

>Also I'm stealing that Beemer for the Davions
in my games/home AU it was actually specifically a davion design (though the taurians also modify theirs that way and will be very annoyed if you call it that), though it was also widely copied by mercs

Ironically, given how much I love the Ironfoot, I'm actually making my 28mm Thud as a BT Thud, not an Ironfoot. I really like a couple of the changes Loose made (literally the first time those words have ever been spoken), as well as the stuff this fan did.

Honestly, I'd tack some VGLs onto any Rocket Thud I made. Gotta love cheap smoke or free, auto-hitting Inferno rounds for knife-fighting. Of course, almost all the variants I make are based off the jumpers, but still.

>VGLs
Well, you can pretty much do 1:1 swaps of RL10s to VGLs.

Alrighty, thanks for the info.

Never, since LAMs have a maximum weight limit of 55 tons, unless you're using the illegal quirk.

Not really my thing, I fucking love Dougram and I am getting kinda tired of bulky as fuck. I want gorilla arms and clown shoes and cannelures.
Did you pick up one of the new 1/72 kits?

That's kinda the thing for me, I love Dougram too, but I'd like Dougram to be Dougram and BT to be BT.

The Dougram based Shimmyseen we've been shown thus far are a little too closer to the originals than I would like, though the Thud less so than the rest.

Literally no reason to make it since the 2nd series gashapon is perfect, the old Unseen lead is passable, the 1/144 official is good, as is the 1/100, 1/72, and 1/48. Plus all the Thud II's in lead and resin.

The gashapons were still ~$8 last time I checked. Unless you can beat that pricepoint, I don't see much market for them.

Well...shit.

Ah well, there's always the Lightray.

Oh, Vixen would make a great LAM. For more reason than one...

No, this isn't fanart.

I'm in this for me! Plus to print a 6" one and put revo joints in it. Also, my aesthetics and skillset building. Also also I'm just going to upload the .stl to a sharing site when I'm done for public consumption.

>6" one and put revo joints in it
You could do that with the Max Factory kit for 10% the cost of a single print and without all the finishing work.

Still missing the point. I own the Max Factory Kit. And that was a 6k yen kit, the print will barely exceed it. And making something yourself is always going to be a good time. This is pure hobby, has nothing to do with leveraging the dollar cost of my free time.

Glorious!

>that was a 6k yen kit
Should have gotten it at release. They were 3,700 yen shipped. Which with 120yen/1$ at the time was amazing.

>the print will barely exceed it
Even a hollow print will be at minimum $300 unless you go with a lesser material. Which good luck getting the print lines out of something like white abs.

But do what you want. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of all the factors.

>Did you pick up one of the new 1/72 kits?
Nah, seventy bucks is a little rich for my blood, and I'm making it to 1:46 anyway to fit with all my groundcars and light armored vees in 28mmH. I do some post-apoc and modern skirmish stuff and I figured if I'm gonna make my own I might as well go whole hog, y'know?
And yes, I am using staples to put a mounting ladder on it. Thinking of doing some camo netting as well, but we'll see how many spare fucks I have to give once I'm done with the foamcore test model and ready to move to something more permanent.

If you can fucking find the gashapon, anyway. My sources are in Japan and still having problems getting ahold of any Series 2 >boxes

So no one can tell me if the Chaos Equipment Rating equation from Campaign Ops completely fucked again, or if I'm missing something?

They literally introduce a new rule in the -example- text, without mentioning it prior to that at all. WTF?

A lot of things in that book are fucked, user. It's going to require 6+ months of errata to be playable because CGL gives no shits about product quality or rules testing when you can get the peons who buy your stuff to do all that complicated stuff for free.

>Campaign Ops
>completely fucked again
yes, it is.

I guess this is why I haven't bought a dead tree since Tac Ops...

>If you can fucking find the gashapon, anyway. My sources are in Japan and still having problems getting ahold of any Series 2 >boxes

godfucking damnit. I was on there THIS MORNING. You bastard.
All Thud, all the time.

If it makes you feel any better, two of these are going to a good friend of mine who loves Thuds as much as I do. Then I'll have an even company of Series 2, and two companies of Thuds total. I'm sure I won't get the itch again until the new IWM mini comes out.

Fair enough. How do you keyword it? I still can't find shit most days.

you greasy bastards, leave some thuds for those of us are just getting into the game and are lacking in unseen