The Official MTG Snowstorm/Lore Thread

I never said they have godly powers. That would be level 11.

You really like being annoying, huh? Well, ever way, have you not heard of Ob Nixilis or Garruk? Curses don't always have only negative affects. Some boost power as well. Also, I never said there wasn't a disadvantage to the curse.

Agreed.

How do you do, fellow kids?

But of course the disadvantage of the curse isn't relevant to the narrative you were trying to convey, therefore you didn't talk about the disadvantages, right? Or perhaps instead we need to wait until you're done with your flake epic and have the time to write a story about the disadvantages of the curse? Maybe you're going to claim that you've accepted a tiny bit of criticism on the character therefore you are immune to further criticism?

I wonder what method of skirting around any critique you're going to use this time.

I'm writefagging about Serena. Right now. At this very moment.

Oh? Do tell.

I'm not writing the epic. And I don't think Des is using Graveborn to my knowledge. And this isn't critique. This is a discussion about levels of power. How about no more mucking up the thread anyhow since you obviously don't agree? Sound good?

>Agreed
You're not allowed to not want to argue about power levels now when you crash landed the last thread arguing about it. Don't be such a fucking hypocrite.

Umm. Finishing up the adventures on Innistrad before finally leaving. She's got to clean up Gavony and have one more bout before she's finished on Innistrad and doesn't want to step foot on the land for a long time due to all the blasphemous acts going about.

Check this.

Ok
>who is the most powerful neowalker flake?
>who is the most powerful oldwalker flake?

True Godlike power starts at somewhere around 7 by my estimates, not 11.
Creatures with the God creature type have stood as near equals to planeswalkers not near the 5 power level marker, so I'd advise you to reconsider if 11 is your metric for godlike, because it most certainly is not the base level for gods.
It took two planeswalkers at around power level 3 with a weapon made by another god, which for the purposes of arguing will boost elspeth's power to 6, the power level of an "unnaturally powerful entity", meaning that the power level of xenagos was either 9 exactly at that point or lower. Saying your flake has unnatural power does not give it right to be stronger than a god, and saying "my flake can just go back in time and make your flake never be born" is cheap playground power pissing, and makes for garbage arguments. The power level for unnaturally powered flakes is 6, if you believe a shitty skeleton can win one-on-one against either nahiri or sorin, you best reconsider.

What do you guys think about an oldwalker that decides to poison themselves out of melancholy after the Mending, only for the poison to react to their spark in a mysterious way and reverse the Mending's effects on them rather than causing any physical harm?

dank memes m9

no
absolutely not
give them astronomical power? maybe, but reverse mending effects? no. The mending was a multiverse-altering event, not a planeswalker-altering event, planeswalker just happened to feel the full force of the mending with their depowerment. Sparks are just bridges now, they can't do anything else, physically can't.

You have a point there. But, when I use the term "godlike" power, I mean more like reality warping on grand scale. Like the power of God. But, like I said, I see your point. I see only three of my flakes being level 7 or higher. Most of them are sub-5. I'm not going to argue Graveborn's power level. If you don't think he's a 10, then that's fine. As I see him, he is. Though, I do give you credit that I haven't delved into exactly why he is a 10. But like I said. I don't want to muck up the thread with arguements. If you'd like me to list off why I think he'd be level 10, that's fine and well. But, after that I'm not discussing it. So, it's up to you.

And all I'm saying is that the spark reacting to the poison makes him immune to the changes inflicted by the Mending on the Multiverse.

The mending didn't affect the Planeswalkers' power you think it did. Sure, it diminished their power, but not by outright affecting the Planeswalkers themselves. The mending affected the multiverse itself. Planeswalkers draw their power from a power source. After the mending, this power source was mostly cut off from the Planeswalkers. And they can no longer access the power to use the abilities they once did. So, no matter what a Planeswalker does to tinker with themselves, they can't obtain the pre-mending abilities. As the power source itself is cut off from the multiverse. They would somehow reverse the affects restriction the power source. Which would open the flood gates to all Planeswalkers.

user. This is bait. He's making fun of Vronak and his skelly.

Exactly, and the poison reacts in a way that allows the planeswalker's spark to ignore the laws of the post-Mending multiverse and act as though it exists in the pre-Mending multiverse. It makes him an exception to the rules.

>I'll make several posts defending the plausibility of my flake's power level, but spend no posts explaining how the curse makes him that powerful.

Quite frankly, vronak, these arguments with you are probably among the only things keeping the snowstorm alive.

That said, you must understand, Bolas is a metric by which nobody should rightfully equal or exceed. If you're going to do so, you need extremely good reasons, with in-lore examples of why and how that can be disputed. Gaia gets to have her 9 because of her status as a godlike avatar post-mending, with this power-level reducing her personality to the level of being pretty much a non-character, something her creator admits. Even with Vronak himself, I'd say you could only reach powerlevel 7 AFTER summoning the legendaries, and being a demonic-enhanced wizard makes him a 6 otherwise, the stated powerlevel of unnaturally enhanced beings. Even that reality warping flake last thread seems to have shown modesty in their own power level at 6, so if reality warping is your metric for godlike, then again, reconsider. Or, again, justify your power level statements with examples in lore about why your flakes should be actually factually more powerful at base than the other entities presented at the tiers below yours, because so far, I don't see reson to why two of your flakes equal Bolas, and one of your flakes nears Bolas.

This is a non-issue. The character in question cannot be immune to how the universe itself works, that is a level of mechanics that neither sparks nor poison interact at. If you make such a flake, be prepared to have the unglued symbol forcibly applied to your flake.

Ah. Well, my answer will remain, bait or no.
Vronak, if you are reading this, is it true that you think your skeleton should be an exception to the rules?

>who is the most powerful neowalker flake?
I'd actually be tempted to put Serena forward for that, maybe not now but eventually she'll be very strong simply because she has the same advantage as Sorin. Immortality is the most powerful tool a planeswalker can have in the long run.

>who is the most powerful oldwalker flake?
Coma rock.

>people posting flake powerlevels
>no one mentions Messenger

Him and Gaia are obviously the strongest ones by far.

you raise an interesting question

hey, how many immortal flakes are there here?

messenger user didn't speak up, but I do agree, if messenger's replication were to get out of hand any planar entity would have a problem. Fucking galvanizers, man, how do they work?

>>who is the most powerful neowalker fkake?
Maybe Ka'koarm? Rakkan? I dunno, big reality warping fish and a planeswalker dragon sound pretty formidable. But I genuinely have no idea since there are so many neowalker flakes and so many creators are absent to confirm, deny, or explain their power.

>oldwalker flakes
Imma sit this one out.

>hey, how many immortal flakes are there here?
Owlmom/Spidermom aren't immortal, but their lives and longevity have been increased do to the djinn's blessing/curse. Their natural lifespan may be as long as a few centuries now.

I think my other flakes are more obvious.

Alright. Graveborn isn't just a walking zombie pirate. He was cursed, his body was made unlivable and his spark was detained within an enchantment created by the curse to keep his spark held within the Blind Eternities. The enchantment was intended to keep a soul trapped within the Blind Eternities to keep the being from passing on to the afterlife, but the creator of the curse never knew about Planeswalkers and could not have seen the affects this would have caused. So, now Graveborn's soul and spark exist within the Blind Eternities. The enchantment was meant to just hold a soul snd not a spark, Graveborn's spark allows his consciousness to still capable of interacting with a plane as normal, though now he puts his conciousness within his former dead body. And now he has learned how to use his abilities without the mindset of human limitations. Think of this like the mind not needing to rely on the restrictions of physics. (Think of the old "Mind is Stronger than the Body" mindset.) He has been able to start thinking in a manner as outside the physical form which has expanded his comprehension of how his abilities interact with the multiverse. He can extend his awareness and his power to objects. Possibly even possess a living being. I haven't delved into that idea yet. But, this is how he can bring a ship across the blind eternities. The rest of his main crew are Planeswalkers that travel wherever the ship goes. And the rest of the few are zombies he summons on a plane when his awareness arrives there.

And as for Vronak, I would agree that without his summons he is a 6, but his summons is what makes him special. And with certain summons, he is capable of being ranked at 7 for power. Though, with some of the capabilities of the summons, I'd still say it would take a power level of 10 to outright kill Vronak. Not saying he is a powerful enough to go toe to toe with a level 8 or higher. Just being able to survive an assault against level 9 and lower.

You do realize that what differentiates a 9 from a 10 by definition is that a 10 has access to a deus ex/plot device, right? So you're literally saying nothing short of a deus ex can kill Vronak and that Graveborn's curse is a cheap plot device.

God you're an ass.

>the witch who cast the curse knows about the Blind Eternities but not about planeswalkers
'Kay

I do believe that it would take Chained avail Liliana, Maelstrom Ajani, Emrakul, and the such to outright obliterate Vronak. He's not particularly strong, just resourceful. And Graveborn in my eyes is on that level of (probably not dead on equal to) Chain Veil Lili. Though, I personally think Emrakul is above a level 10. You think that out of all flakes ever created, a couple could t be that powerful? Personally, I think Graveborn being as powerful as he is, isn't the most powerful flake here. Can anyone take a gander at which flake I think is more powerful. Tip, it isn't one of mine.

We know about Space, but not alien life. Also, you can know about Planeswalkers and not know about Sparks.

>Just being able to survive an assault against level 9 and lower
That's specific. I have this odd feeling you're saying shit like this because of those stories a few threads ago where Gaia, the only other flake (not yours) stated to be on the 8-9 scale, killed Vronak in the AU.

The person you're replying to here, I still find graveborn's breakdown really iffy and I think pushes one too many limits. If he were the result of many flakes working together, like some sort of narrative voltron, I could see it, but as one entity I think he's too many ideas crammed into one thing. Maybe consider making flakes that explore the idea of planar travel by ship via the same discoveries venser stumbled upon, and expand on the curser for why she would have such knowledge of the blind eternities. I think it would do you good to make flakes of them to better cement that the power your flake has is the end result of many other flakes' stories. I also still find it hard to believe that vronak could take the force of an attack from an entity like ugin or bolas one-on-one, but at the very least you maintain some modesty on his power level.

>you maintain some modesty on his power level

He really didnt.

No. I've stated this since the beginning. He's hard to kill. That is all. I personally don't care what people write. It's not going to make me go into "damage control" mode.

And what does
> the only other flake (not yours)
mean?

I was pandering on the idea of making a flake list of his crew and making a background to everything. But, people bitched that I already made too many flakes as it is, so I but the idea on the back burner. I actually wanted other people to help with the crew and make their own perceptions of a crew member. Which I modeled the theme after The Princess Bride and the background off the old Fokke tales of the Flying Dutchman and a captain that is bound to the seas.

Can you guys please just stop replying to him? It's pointless and just shits up the thread.

You know we are generally asking questions and getting answers. How is that shitting up the thread, Angel Hitler?

It means that, besides your deus ex flakes, Gaia is the only flake stated to be in the 8-9 range. Though, I personally think Messenger with his grey goo activated is at least as powerful.

Upset that people arent talking about you or your angel tits instead?

Of course you would like if others made flakes for that crew. That would give you a position of power.

Grey goo Messenger is absolutely 9-10 range.

You're forgetting someone who is well into the level 10 category.

Razorcock and Rock?

Because his answers never really mean anything, it's circular and pointless. We all know his flakes are dumb and overpowered and any explanation he give for it will be contrived and bullshit.

No it wouldn't. I wouldn't control them. Nor would I be writing any writefagging after the initial full origin of Graveborn.

Cock doesnt need a seperate mentioning. He is beyond the realms of man.

William.

Fuck off.

But he Koolaid-manned a plane with no survivors because plot reasons and deus ex that's the very definition of a 10.

Exactly. He Flakepointed the entire multiverse. And now Bill & Æon have to go on an excellent adventure to fix it.

You know why I said fuck off? The answer is here. And I am not even talking about what a shitface William user is.

I want to defend or complain about that, but is it dues ex and plot reasons if the point of his entire story was doing that? I mean Gaia's fluff was that she was this isolated plane that had little to do with the rest of us. A big part in how her being a domain walker had little if anything to do with the rest of flake thread and could be ignored by anyone who didn't like it.

But, they came to an agreement it could work, and it was the focus of their stories that he was cheating with his bullshit colorless mana stuff to find a loophole to get it. Nevermind if you just needed colorless mana to do it, the universe would have done it already, but fuck it, he's got non-silver time travel.

Which is a special brand of retard in and of itself, but the idea came after Tarkir where we learned no, if someone like Ugin or otherwise powerful has colorless mana, you're good to go and fuck with the past.

So god damn, MtG lore is shit and so is the writing whether it's for flakes or canon writing. I need a drink.

>But, they came to an agreement it could work
I mean, come on: "This plane and flake are stable, but if anyone got in ever in any way, everything dies." That's a story just begging to happen.

But why would she die if her plane collapsed? That makes no sense. I mean, we've seen canon walkers like Serra lose their plane, but they didn't die from it. Nor did any of the other plane-making flakes, iirc. Sorry if I'm missing a major point or something. I've really not paid any attention to the Flakepoint character bullshit

Gaia was the world core of her plane. The plane existed around her and her power was what supported it. Also, when she lost her powers from the Mending, she didn't die. The plane collapsed and she and Belldandy walked away. After this, Gaia didn't want to live bit Pilsner bring herself to off herself, so she began living a depraved life and went around slutting it up with randoms.

Probably Gaia user having a flair for the dramatics. I mean, she was originally a lotr elf with all the bullshit that brought with it, but at least dying of grief was a legit thing for them.

she used herself as a battery to keep her plane alive and stable. This is me assuming that contact with the æther has something to do with planes being stable. I was making my best assumptions where the lore is vague.

Anyway, since she had to be the plane's battery, she intimately wove herself into the plane's fabric. Collapsing the plane tore her essence to shreds and extinguished her spark, killing her. Picture, if you will, something who is chained to two brick walls. The walls come down and topple outward, tearing the person's limbs off. It was kind of like that, I guess.

Sorry if this answer is incomplete or nonsensical. Still on phone.

>Probably Gaia user having a flair for the dramatics
Yup

You wouldn't know it from how they both die.

I like to nip that bud while it's still young. Keep it young forever .

You guys see the spoilers for FtA: Lore?

I am hyped.

I still maintain it was a rift that allowed him to travel back.

Is that ever stated? Perhaps the nature of timetravel changed with the Mending like the rest of the multiverse.

LotR elves die from grief? News to me. I thought only fire and steel could kill then.

Idk bur I'm trying to go with the less lore shattering option.

Is Serena user around?

Pick a flake of power level 6 or greater. Assemble a team of flakes at lower power levels that have the correct skillsets to take out the powerhouses.

Yah. Just hanging out, deckbuilding. What's up?

I've finished the writefagging I was working up until the ending. And since Serena is the central figure of the story, I would like to know how you would want it to end.

Forewarning... It's a little long.

docs.google.com/document/d/11MsM6_JjvE0PU_pVVHhnCLXPeQ_p-wmu6N-JP5MCBNs

Do you waifu Serena?

Nope.

What the fuck am I reading? I have no idea what's going on.

This technically takes place after Serena's help in Thraben.

What takes place? What the fuck is going on? It's so cringy and horribly written that I can't even tell who's fighting who. Are they allies? Did she kill him? Did he kill her? What the actual fuck am I reading?

I agree. All I can catch is Serena says I hate you a lot and Akroma is there somehow? The text is just so busy.

I feel like you aren't reading my story if you are asking these questions.

I'm trying to read it, but you definitely haven't made it easy. I have a lot of patience for cancer, but this is a piece of work. About just as bad as your Ravnica story.

Shit, you guys are just skimming and not actually reading. Aren't you?

Scenery: Thraben; The Cathedral Avacyn; Alter of Avacyn; Gavony Province

Starring Characters: Serena, Vronak, Summoned duplicate Avacyn, Summoned duplicate Akroma.

And how is it cringy?

>And how is it cringy?
>Starring Characters: Vronak
there you go.

Did I read that last bit correctly? Did Serena betray the honorable and MISUNDERSTOOD antihero Vronak, savior of Innistrad?

>how is it cringy
Gee, I wonder? It has all of the elements of a good story, especially the part where Vronak can do no wrong. All he wanted to do was help that crazy murderhobo, Serena. What an ungrateful bitch, amirite?

No, no, I see what they're talking about.

In your attempt at flowery, descriptive writing, you've managed to muddle it up a bit. Knowing which descriptors to use and how to make the ideas easily conveyed is an important concept in writing. As a rule of thumb, you want everything to be as simple as possible so that there can be no confusion by the reader. If you break it down to its absolute basics and it isn't proper and clear, without all of the extra details, then it should probably be re-written.

Actually, he wasn't helping her at all save for the last moment.

There's so much wrong with this. Serena already knew of Avacyn's death, it was what caused her ignition. She also didn't become R/W until after the arrival of Emrakul, so the time this takes place is really questionable, also you are aware that Gavony is an entire province, right?

Aside from that, your portrayal of Serena is really off, she speaks far too plainly and crudely. Never in all of my writing has she ever once cursed.

It seems pretty clear to me that you haven't read anything I've written or I wouldn't have to tell you this. Which is fine, you don't have to. But if you want to write a story about Serena it's probably a good place to start.

I'm not sure how you should end it because even after reading it TWICE, I still can't tell what exactly is happening.

Very well.

Are you in high school?

I have been out of the loop for a while so, who the raven man is after all ?

Is this Vronak who wrote this? So many fucking things are clear to me after seeing this.

We still really dont know.

Yes, Vronak wrote it.

So, what hath thine eyes seen, my friend?